Ranger and organized squad WVW — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Ranger and organized squad WVW

mikexg.7329mikexg.7329 Member ✭✭

So I really enjoy the theme and feel of a ranger, they have always been my main in open world and pve content. I’ve done pure dps, pure heals, pure support and enjoy all the play style. Lately I’ve noticed that ranger, although decent at roaming in wvw, does not seem to have a place in the squad based wvw. Am I missing something? Will ANet ever make ranger viable for this play style (hahahahaha)? Any advise? For now I switch to my necro but I like the idea of my “main” being able to play the content I mainly play..... thanks all

Comments

  • mikexg.7329mikexg.7329 Member ✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:
    The support it provides is far below firebrand, and even below other supports that arent meta. It's not useless, but it's definitely a weak link. Bonus points if you're playing druid who can afk until it gets enough AF to actually be useful.

    Dps ranger is mostly single target focused and its aoe potential is just too low; besides LB 5 it has no reliable aoe damage skill.

    Being tanky for the sake of personal tankiness is useless on any class so being the last man alive isnt particularly a good thing. You can achieve this on any class, but it's pointless if you dont provide any of 2 things mentioned above, which ranger cant by default.

    So far, the most effective thing that ranger can do in big scale is sniping people off guard, but you dont need a squad to do that.

    Yes this is pretty much what I’ve gathered, oh well maybe next expansion will have a more AOE focused weapon or better options. Until the. I’ll continue with necro for wvw.

  • Mokk.2397Mokk.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    Define support! If support is just buffs then that's just 2 dimensional thinking .Support comes in more that one form.It has never been the role of the ranger to be front line.
    The archers in the days of old were never put on the front line.They provided cover fire.But if the Meta limits that support ,then that puts the group in a tactical disadvantage against long range attack.Instead of jumping on the "hate all rangers" band wagon let the rangers do what they are designed to do.This goes for all classes that are unjustly perceived as inferior. Play the class as it's meant to be played .

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2018

    Cover fire is needed and used quite frequently, by classes with more powerful ranged pressure that is. Rangers are simply and utterly outclassed at that aspect. Necromancers cover vast areas with their unblockable marks, elementalists provide much better ranged pressure when needed, revenants have equal amounst of ranged burst, burst which comes in the form of AoE spells thus is far more desirable in group situations.
    They stack, you bomb them with AoE spells. That is all there is to it. Real life medieval tactics do not always translate to fantasy.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • @Mokk.2397 said:
    Define support! If support is just buffs then that's just 2 dimensional thinking .Support comes in more that one form.It has never been the role of the ranger to be front line.
    The archers in the days of old were never put on the front line.They provided cover fire.But if the Meta limits that support ,then that puts the group in a tactical disadvantage against long range attack.Instead of jumping on the "hate all rangers" band wagon let the rangers do what they are designed to do.This goes for all classes that are unjustly perceived as inferior. Play the class as it's meant to be played .

    If you want to make a statement in favour of the ranger that is fine. But then you will have to state exactly why in a squad-based combat I should bring a ranger -single target focus, blocked both by abilities and other enemies- in a squad over any of the following:

    • Rev (Herald) providing buffs and spike damage from range with Hammer
    • Necro (Scourge) bombing with boon corruption in a boon-heavy environment
    • Ele (Tempest/Weaver) providing heavy AoE damage

    That is without the consideration that there is a large number of projectile blocking abilities compared to the limited windows of unblockability you can achieve nor considering the fact that Scourges can also hit at 1500 distance (considering their AoE) in squad based combat.

  • Dediggefedde.4961Dediggefedde.4961 Member ✭✭✭

    For some time druids were a nice addition to the zerg. They bring a lot of nice boons, had a nice heal output with condition clear (that was nerved) and provided emergency stealth and rezz.

    The boons it provides has a long duration, but also a long cooldown. With the number of warriors and necromancers around with boon corrupt, the boon output of the druids will be almost negated. The frequent application of necromancer conditions (poison, bleeding, torment) will also make the druids condition clear ineffective. At the moment pulsing boons and condition removals as provided from firebrands and heal-scrappers are much more useful.

    On the other hand, in my opinion, soulbeast has a nice utility in organized zerg play. I see a lot of benefit in sharing stances, especially the condition purging heal stance, the dolyak stance that gives group-stability and prevents crippling, the moa stance that is increasing boon duration by 60% and the wolf stance that grants an additional hit every 0.25 s. Even if the rest of your build is traited for sniping, these stances coupled with the stance-sharing trait will give your group a good offensive and defensive advantage. The problem is, of course, the timing, since the duration of the shared stance is really short. As far as I can see, it's 50% of the original duration (the trait grants you 150% duration for yourself and 50% duration for allies). This is only 2-4s at best, but since the stances also have a low CD and cannot be corrupted, this still seems useful to me in an organized WvW zerg.

    Typically I run a power-based build with those stances and a smokescale and owl pet. owl provides group-mobility and a nice group-heal/resistance while smokescale gives a nice close combat option with evades and pulsing blinds. Usually sword/warhorn & longbow or greatsword. According to my dps meter, I'm still in the upper 15% of the zerg damage, but of course, weavers and necromancers will likely put out much more damage most of the time.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dediggefedde.4961 said:

    On the other hand, in my opinion, soulbeast has a nice utility in organized zerg play. I see a lot of benefit in sharing stances, especially the condition purging heal stance, the dolyak stance that gives group-stability and prevents crippling, the moa stance that is increasing boon duration by 60% and the wolf stance that grants an additional hit every 0.25 s. Even if the rest of your build is traited for sniping, these stances coupled with the stance-sharing trait will give your group a good offensive and defensive advantage. The problem is, of course, the timing, since the duration of the shared stance is really short. As far as I can see, it's 50% of the original duration (the trait grants you 150% duration for yourself and 50% duration for allies). This is only 2-4s at best, but since the stances also have a low CD and cannot be corrupted, this still seems useful to me in an organized WvW zerg.

    Typically I run a power-based build with those stances and a smokescale and owl pet. owl provides group-mobility and a nice group-heal/resistance while smokescale gives a nice close combat option with evades and pulsing blinds. Usually sword/warhorn & longbow or greatsword. According to my dps meter, I'm still in the upper 15% of the zerg damage, but of course, weavers and necromancers will likely put out much more damage most of the time.

    Would you mind linking your build? I also play Power SB w/ LB + GS, and use the same two pets. I've been thinking of ditching GS for S + WH, but I've so used to it, and I find it hits very hard when bonded with Smokescale.

    Currently running only Bear and Dolyak stances, as I run Signet of the Hunt for unblockable, along with Sic Em and SoTP.

  • Dediggefedde.4961Dediggefedde.4961 Member ✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    Would you mind linking your build?

    I used the build from this thread as a base: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/43535/epic-soulbeast-outnumbered-no-downed-state#latest
    then I changed a trait, armor, and skills: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNBjYD7kgXohXskFwjXglXsMJY572f7x1Jyd5ycNBgH3EoEHmG-jVCEQBJS9HnoEDe7PAgDCwDuCAMR5hLfAAuT3wWUCGA4A48zz8mHc+5nf+5nXzP/8zP/8zP/8zLFwqLjA-w

    The trick with the sword seems to be to avoid 2 and 3 unless you need an evade. 1 is really powerful while wolf-stance is active. Then it is really chopping down on enemy-health bars. 4 is nice range-non-projectile damage for the stacks and extra passive damage, while 5 is nice for group-buff. don't rely too much on warhorn-5, though, since boon-corruption is heavy at the moment.
    I find wolf-stance together with "Leader of the pack" and sword or smokescale-binding very powerful. "Leader of the pack" will increase your group's damage for 4s and your damage for 12s. Especially for often-hitting attacks, like sword auto attack or, in the best case, holo auto attack.
    Moa-stance is great for organized groups with empowering and other boons. But I guess you can also use stone-signet, hunt-signet or sic 'em. In a zerg-fight, I usually don't need any of those. In roaming, you should not use stance-sharing unless you're in a roamer-group.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2018

    @Dediggefedde.4961 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    Would you mind linking your build?

    I used the build from this thread as a base: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/43535/epic-soulbeast-outnumbered-no-downed-state#latest
    then I changed a trait, armor, and skills: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNBjYD7kgXohXskFwjXglXsMJY572f7x1Jyd5ycNBgH3EoEHmG-jVCEQBJS9HnoEDe7PAgDCwDuCAMR5hLfAAuT3wWUCGA4A48zz8mHc+5nf+5nXzP/8zP/8zP/8zLFwqLjA-w

    The trick with the sword seems to be to avoid 2 and 3 unless you need an evade. 1 is really powerful while wolf-stance is active. Then it is really chopping down on enemy-health bars. 4 is nice range-non-projectile damage for the stacks and extra passive damage, while 5 is nice for group-buff. don't rely too much on warhorn-5, though, since boon-corruption is heavy at the moment.
    I find wolf-stance together with "Leader of the pack" and sword or smokescale-binding very powerful. "Leader of the pack" will increase your group's damage for 4s and your damage for 12s. Especially for often-hitting attacks, like sword auto attack or, in the best case, holo auto attack.
    Moa-stance is great for organized groups with empowering and other boons. But I guess you can also use stone-signet, hunt-signet or sic 'em. In a zerg-fight, I usually don't need any of those. In roaming, you should not use stance-sharing unless you're in a roamer-group.

    Here is my build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJATRnE8Cd8iFsAuCCctgl9AbpJEAObMDsAWvLf9+evvl4w0A-jFCBQBnRJYV2fALK/AwVAgBPAAFq+DEOEA5RXQAgDgzPPAAA-w

    The gear is very much a 'work in progress', as I only have a few ascended pieces atm (all the good stuff goes to my Guardian main lol), but this is what I'm aiming towards.

    I like your use of Durability runes. I may swap Trooper for those, as I don't know how much bang for the buck I'm getting from the 6pc bonus even with 2 shouts. Changing those out gives me a reason to drop all shouts and try out some of the stances instead.

    I don't normally solo roam unless all I'm trying to do is complete a daily (like flipping a camp, land claimer, etc), so I mostly try to accompany small / med groups, or even follow the zergs around, so I keep Leader of the pack it also prolongs my boons.
    I'm still on the fence with Signet of the Hunt. Most builds I see run Stone Signet, but I find it's a great tool to set up burst:

    • F3 in Beastmode
    • Sic Em or SoTP
    • Signet
    • LB 2

    Also not 100% sure about the GS. I find my success rate in a melee engagement to be pretty poor, but I think it's more a L2P issue for me. I've been thinking about trying Sword + Horn but I love Swoop / Maul so much. Definitely something to think about.

  • Brendan.1309Brendan.1309 Member ✭✭✭

    Maybe Ranger should get arrow cart bonus abilities, damage, or build speed since it doesn't bring much to the table when it comes to zergs

  • I wouldn't take opinions from average players about viability of ranger. When played correctly, ranger is the most versatile class. I've made plenty of useful builds that have proven critical in WvW. A small squad of rangers can deal absolute havoc to enemy zergs if they flank from a side or rush in as tank dps to scatter groups. And someone said being tanky is usesless? Lmao holding enemies while the rest regroup regen and get cds up is about as clutch as it gets from capping smc. Im one of the most respected commanders in t1 wvw

    Destiny has arrived...or shall we say, I have.

    twitch.tv/ThanosGW2

  • you can snipe zerk staff eles and revs. that would be a huge bonus for your zerg.

    Te lazla otstra.

  • Dps ranger is mostly single target focused and its aoe potential is just too low; besides LB 5 it has no reliable aoe damage skill.

    not true. traited axe/axe does plenty of AOE damage, and then there's greatsword #2 and worldly impact...

    stance share also provides unique group-friendly buffs, particularly the heal, dolyak stance and the elite. Dolyak stance is the best group stability skill is the game now.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.