Stow weapon affecting clones

Sorry if there had already been a discussion about this however I did not find one.

What do you think about stowing your weapon in combat would force your clones to stow theirs too? Drawing your weapon in any way would make the clones aggresive again.

Personally I roam a lot in WvW and sometimes you do not want to strike the opponent, for example if they have reflect, a spellbreaker using full counter, you get the idea. Maybe there are some mechanics in PvE where this is the case too?

Being able to force clones to stop attacking would open up counterplay to these mechanics rewarding you for reacting to the opponents threats. I cannot remember the last time my clones did not trigger a full counter for example.

This would be an amazing feature.

or just shatter it ? :/

“Oh no, roaming Mirage has a minuscule weakness to full counter despite having practically zero other weaknesses. Please daddy Anet make my class even better”

@"Nath Forge Tempete.1645" said:or just shatter it ? :/In some situations using a shatter can be a solution, mostly only against reflect and if the mesmer is condition based running septer or staff. In the situations where you don't want to land a single hit on your opponent you would need to use the distortion shatter (or continium split on chrono) both of which are to valuable and on long cd to use for this purpose.

@"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:“Oh no, roaming Mirage has a minuscule weakness to full counter despite having practically zero other weaknesses. Please daddy Anet make my class even better”I fail to see how this contributes to the discussion, or where I claimed to be a mirage. Whenever I see someone saying spellbreaker's full counter is OP the general answer is "No it's not, just don't hit them". I don't think full counter is OP since you need to get hit to trigger it, however let me play by those rules by controlling my clones.As for mirage being OP which is what your post states, indirectly, I do agree that it should be toned down a bit. I played mesmer before all the hate and I'll continue to play it after nerfs cause it's the class I like. Lets try to keep the discussion about the mechanic stated instead of turning this into another nerf mesmer thread though.

I understand if some people think this is mostly about full counter however that was not my intention. I used it as the example because I thought it was the most relatable scenario. Some other example skills I would not like to strike are:

Herald Facet of Light -> Infuse Light: Revert all incomming attacks to healing for a short while.Daredevil Bandit Defence: If struck while blocking get access to Reflexive Strike.Warrior Shield Stance: Gain might when you block an attack if using Shield Master trait.Chronomancer Echo of memory: If an attack is blocked get access to Deja Vu, a second block.Most of the weaponskills that block to then counterattack.

@LaGranse.8652 I mean sure I get your point but I don't think it 's relevant to ask for a fundamental rework when a core mechanic is a solution (in a way) in the problem you submit.

PS: jsut trying to make a constructive feedback here but I have some issues to do so.

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:“Oh no, roaming Mirage has a minuscule weakness to full counter despite having practically zero other weaknesses. Please daddy Anet make my class even better”

I'd also like this for pure PvE, hello bounties with stop/go mechanics, so while I'm sympathetic to this position in the mode, I don't think the essential feature is bad.

I also think if mirage is that dominant, maybe trying to preserve one tiny weakness isn't the right strategy compared to pushing for better overall balance of the class. :)

i'm not a mesmer, but this sounds like a pretty cool idea. Or, mesmers can just spawn less clones than what they do now, but the stow weapon thing would be pretty cool.

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:“Oh no, roaming Mirage has a minuscule weakness to full counter despite having practically zero other weaknesses. Please daddy Anet make my class even better”

Sounds like someone from the Mirage hate train in the PvP forum :p

@Ghos.1326 said:. Or, mesmers can just spawn less clones than what they do now, ...Essentially nerfing what is possibly the class main feature?

I would like this so there is a bit of control over AI pathing. Telling clones to just "stop" following the target would be nice...

Despite LucianTheAngelic's whiny tone, he does bring up a decent point though... Not so much regarding auto proccing spell breaker, (which I think works more against them but w/e,) but having opponents be able to manipulate illusion AI is a valid part of the counterplay vs any class... I think that should be considered before something like that is brought to pvp.

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Ghos.1326" said:. Or, mesmers can just spawn less clones than what they do now, ...Essentially nerfing what is possibly the class main feature?

so you are in favor of mesmers being overtuned with clone creation, which could be a reason why condition mesmers are so strong to begin with, rather than being balanced for the sake of balance, all because, per your argument, "it would nerf the class' main feature"?

@Ghos.1326 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:. Or, mesmers can just spawn less clones than what they do now, ...Essentially nerfing what is possibly the class main feature?

No, that's not entirely accurate. I don't play competitively, so I can't speak to how "overtuned" thing are in that area; however, if ANet decides to nerf the class, I would rather it be through condition nerfs rather than reducing the number of clones. From how I see things, clone generation is the key facet of the profession as shattering is the main point of it (through the F1-4 skills). Might as well reduce elementalists to 2 elements rather than four to nerf that profession then?

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:. Or, mesmers can just spawn less clones than what they do now, ...Essentially nerfing what is possibly the class main feature?

This makes no sense, being that clones deal certain conditions though most of their attacks, and the fact they can poop out 3 more almost instantly, that don't disappear after some time means more constant condition damage application/constant shatter options with no give to the take. Also, comparing a slight nerf to how often a clone or two is created within a certain time period is not at all equivalent to elementalists having 4 elements to tune into, each on a cooldown after the said swap to said elements.

@Ghos.1326 said:

This makes no sense, being that clones deal certain conditions though most of their attacks, and the fact they can poop out 3 more almost instantly, that don't disappear after some time means more constant condition damage application/constant shatter options with no give to the take. Also, comparing a slight nerf to how often a clone or two is created within a certain time period is not at all equivalent to elementalists having 4 elements to tune into, each on a cooldown after the said swap to said elements.

Again, I don't play competitively so please don't take my posts as being condescending toward you or others who share your experience. ;)

So shouldn't we really be discussing phantasms vs clones? As far as I understand, clones don't spam conditions.

If conditions are the problem, then don't stand in them or maybe eliminate the mesmer creating the phantasms? The volume of phantasms that chronomancers can generate quickly is also constrained by cooldowns, so my comparison isn't completely off of the mark. Once phantasms do their thing, they become (mostly) harmless clones whose purpose is merely shatter fodder. Granted, shattering can also have its effects but to resolve your concerns by gutting the very mechanic that makes the profession what it is ...? I don't find that to be a viable solution.

@Ghos.1326 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:. Or, mesmers can just spawn less clones than what they do now, ...Essentially nerfing what is possibly the class main feature?

Sorry but do you mean Illusions?Because a mesmer can have 3 clones persisting, and only 3 clones.Are you having trouble with phantasms? because phantasms no longer persist and are a one and done mechanic that will only spawn a clone if you are not capped at 3?

Why are 3 clones that can be AA'd to death to much for you?

@Solori.6025 said:Sorry but do you mean Illusions?Because a mesmer can have 3 clones persisting, and only 3 clones.Are you having trouble with phantasms? because phantasms no longer persist and are a one and done mechanic that will only spawn a clone if you are not capped at 3?

Why are 3 clones that can be AA'd to death to much for you?Thanks. That's what I was trying to ascertain, too.

@Solori.6025 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:. Or, mesmers can just spawn less clones than what they do now, ...Essentially nerfing what is possibly the class main feature?

lets consider most AAs do not instantly kill clones. But I doubt you'd be able to consider this.Lets also consider that Mesmers can poop out 12+ stacks of confusion with just a few attacks, if not less. So AA'ing the clones to death isn't a good idea also. Imagine, you have that much confusion put onto you by a condition damage build, and you MISTAKENLY use an attack, or better yet, you use a util to cleanse it, or to heal. you take a nice little chunk of damage. So attempting to kill said clones, yeah not gonna work. But, I doubt you also considered this possibility as well.Lets also consider the just recently nerfed bunker Chrono. at almost all times, they have 3 clones up, and that's not counting phantasms. Those clones DO provide conditions application through THEIR auto attacks onto you, which is usually the case almost immediately after they are summoned. But I doubt you also considered this possibility as well.Lets also consider that all professions, save one, has a lot of evades through the actual evade button mechanic, let alone evades through other sources, like skill use. (if you guessed ele, you're wrong, which is what I think you might guess). But I doubt you considered this possibility.Lets also consider that some professions don't have steady condition clear, and should usually avoid fights with these said specs. But lets also consider what the Mesmer has in their loadouts in terms of mobility, and defensive tools. But I highly doubt you considered these possibilities.All in all, what I see is you blindly trying to defend mesmers being brought into balance. What I don't see, is you considering all the possibilities, or even attempting to have the mind open enough to grasp at things that could be possible problems, or that are in fact, possible problems, with the Mesmer profession.

@Ghos.1326 said:

All in all, what I see is you blindly trying to defend mesmers being brought into balance. What I don't see, is you considering all the possibilities, or even attempting to have the mind open enough to grasp at things that could be possible problems, or that are in fact, possible problems, with the Mesmer profession.

Just... wow. And you have considered ALL of the possibilities? We should then accept your interpretation of how the profession needs to change to suit your desires?

When it comes to having an open mind, what I don't see is you having one with regards to your suggestion and how it will affect other game play modes that you don't seem to play. Now, if Anet took your recommendation and split it into competitive game modes, then I wouldn't be so adverse.

I really dislike competitive players (in general) who complain about a mechanic that ganks them and who then advocate significant, profession altering changes without considering other aspects of GW2. Would that almost everything could be split, but that would make a lot more dev work and probably something Anet is unwilling to do.

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

All in all, what I see is you blindly trying to defend mesmers being brought into balance. What I don't see, is you considering all the possibilities, or even attempting to have the mind open enough to grasp at things that could be possible problems, or that are in fact, possible problems, with the Mesmer profession.

i don't want Mesmer to suit My needs. I want Mesmer balanced. there is a difference. Unsure if you missed the balance bit I've included in my posts. Possible.Oh and I have also considered that possibility too.Other game modes I am sure won't be affected by toning down Mesmer clone spamming. Mesmers themselves can poop out, for the time being, tons of confusion, torment, and other condis. Especially with the torch. 2 torch skills can dish out 7 stacks or more of burning. Not even a Scourge can dish out that amount of burning with their two torch skills. That says something, don't you think?Either way. No sense in arguing with you. It's a waste of time, and the time spent trying to spoon feed you some important information could be used elsewhere. By the way, this could have been avoided if you had approached me with a much tamer attitude, tongue, and frame of mind.

This discussion has sadly derailed from the original topic and I worry it will never get back on track. I will ask for the closure of this discussion in order to prevent it going any further.

It was nice to see that some people liked the idea and that it might even have had some usage in the PvE scene that I'm not well versed in.

@Ghos.1326 said:Either way. No sense in arguing with you. It's a waste of time, and the time spent trying to spoon feed you some important information could be used elsewhere. By the way, this could have been avoided if you had approached me with a much tamer attitude, tongue, and frame of mind.Where in the kitten have I had this attitude? Your last 2 posts have been very condescending toward me. I have been trying to understand why you want this change when it will affect other modes where I haven't seen such a hue and cry from the rest of the community.

@kharmin.7683 said:Again, I don't play competitively so please don't take my posts as being condescending toward you or others who share your experience. ;)

I thought that this was being polite, but you clearly interpreted it differently.