Joko and the Scarab Plague's Aftermath (Spoilers Ahead)

Provided Joko releases the plague throughout the Tyrian continent, I think that Joko will choose a central chokepoint target such as Lion's Arch. The reason for this is either Joko or one of his agents will possibly release the plague in Lion's Arch or another important location, and provided it is Lion's Arch, cause the populace to panic and run through the Asura gates infecting almost everyone. In a last ditch effort, the leaders of the Tyrian nations will be forced to order a mass exodus to Cantha just to escape being infected. Whether Cantha is even being planned is being kept top secret most likely. Also I'd like to add that since Joko is human in a sense, the Tengu might consider their "observations" of the human race to be over and consider them an evil threat that will never redeem itself all because of Joko's somewhat human existence. This could make a possible new expansion feature a 3-way problem in the form of Joko, the Tengu, and maybe even the Deep Sea Elder Dragon.

Very interesting, not sure if Anet would do it though

Can't just combine everything into one hamfisted scenario lol

For now his portals are not going to get anybody infected

This focus on Cantha... not sure why everyone wants to go to one of the ugliest parts of GW and try to connect everything to Cantha.

And with the plague, we still don't know much about it. Its only implied that the plague is spreading through food but with all the years and some experiments we can't be sure if something changed there.

What Walhalla said. While I'm not sure if it's something ANet is going to hold to or not, GW1 suggested that the Scarab Plague wasn't contagious. It infested the grain, and presumably the insects that burst from the infected would be able to go compromise new fields or granaries, but at the time it didn't sound like it spread from person to person.

There is absolutely NO WAY that all leaders suddenly order a massive exodus to Cantha. That doesn't make sense at all. Contact have been loss for two hundred years. Sailors probably doesn't even know how to get there anymore. And for what? They absolutely don't know what awaits there. Exodus to more wild areas of tyria would be far more appropriate. Besides, concentrating population in ports is the best way to spread an epidemic.I don't see the tengu going against humanity. There toally isolationnist and it's in every way. They want nothing from humanity and certainly not conflicts. They don't blame humanity for being a twisted, evil race, just for what they did to them. They don't care about their redeeming. And they would probably not see joko as a human. He has long stopped looking and behaving like one.

Furthermore: Would it mean that core Tyria would be completely abandonned? Sure, great idea for the game...

The scarab plague will play somehow. I don't know how, since devs can't just afford to destroy the world.

I'm not for returning to Cantha right now. It would be too rushy. And we have still plenty of issues and lore to adress in Tyria. It's time for Charrs and Norns to go back on the scene.

@Lametoile.7394 said:I'm not for returning to Cantha right now. It would be too rushy. And we have still plenty of issues and lore to adress in Tyria. It's time for Charrs and Norns to go back on the scene.Not really-Zhaitan and Mordremoth are dead-Primordus and Jormag are asleep-Kralkatorik and Bubbles are elsewhere-The White Mantle is gone-The Nightmare Court is a shadow of what it once was-The Inquest have just become an ineffective nuisance-The Flame Legion has basically vanished since their failed alliance with the Dredge-The centaurs have been pushed back to the border of Kryta and the Woodland CascadesThe whole reason why PoF and LWS4 work narratively is because there really isn't anything going on in Tyria at the moment. Any Charr or Norn focus would only really come in a Jormag based expansion/LW, and that wont be for awhile given how the narrative is going.

Once Joko and Kralk a taken care of, Bubbles is the only active dragon left, and since its unlikely we will get a whole expansion based around water, Cantha is the prime target for the next big focus.

@"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:-Primordus and Jormag are asleepWho can wake up at any moment Anet desires.-Kralkatorik and Bubbles are elsewhereKralkatorrik is literally still on Tyria's doorstep, and stronger than ever.-The Inquest have just become an ineffective nuisanceBecause creating dragon champions of all dragon energies capable of commanding every Elder Dragons' minions for the first time in 5 years - and creating portal gates capable of making portals anywhere - is an ineffective nuisance. We never once learned who their leadership is, just that they hold a pyramid system of leadership, indicating that there is someone at the top, who remains unknown to us all.

The Inquest was an ineffective nuisance after the events of the dungeons, but they remained around, and they've seemed to have stepped up their game in S4, even if they've gotten subverted by Joko's more dire threat. Kuda is no doubt going to become a player in the future, the only question is "when and how big".

Once Joko and Kralk a taken care of, Bubbles is the only active dragon left, and since its unlikely we will get a whole expansion based around water, Cantha is the prime target for the next big focus.Or, you know, going to brand new lands to create brand new lore. Like to the east.

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Who can wake up at any moment Anet desires.Which I already accounted for later in the post.Kralkatorrik is literally still on Tyria's doorstepIf by "Tyria's doorstep" you mean, "the middle of Elona", sure.Because creating dragon champions of all dragon energies capable of commanding every Elder Dragons' minions for the first time in 5 yearsWhich we quickly dispatched even easier and quicker then the first time. Nice improvements there guys!and creating portal gates capable of making portals anywhereAn already existing technology.We never once learned who their leadership isWe don't need to. After systematically destroying their bases throughout Tyria, they have become greatly weakened to the point that taking out thier leader is largely irrelevant. We see this in places from Dry Top onward, where most of their bases are now just tents, instead of the formerly elaborate structures we saw previously. The most elaborate thing we have seen them build recently was the giant cube... which was blown up in a rather fiery self destruct sequence.Kuda is no doubt going to become a player in the future, the only question is "when and how big".Uhh no, there is plenty of doubt on that. If Anet wanted her to be anything but a nice callback, they would have done more with her in her initial appearance then have her show up via hologram at the end of an event. That literally screams "unimportant side/callback character"Or, you know, going to brand new lands to create brand new lore. Like to the east.And what reason would we have to go there? Primordus is below us, Jormag is to the north, and Bubbles is to the south. Besides, east of Elona is the ocean, and the north east is Dzalana, the homeland of the much overused Harpies and Hylek. And to the East of Ascalon is more charr lands, and big inland sea. So, there's really not much to see to the immediate east, and even less reason to go there.

Based on the trailer they released, I think Joko will release the plague in Amnoon and the player will have to try to stop it.

Cantha is next. Whether Kralkatorrik dies or lives, we will be going there to deal with a certain Sea Dragon. Next most likely locations would be something in the far north or underneath Tyria to deal with either Jormag and/or Primordius. I think it's more likely the developers will leave them asleep untill they feel like more elder dragon stories. Next expansion will tie up the whole elder dragon plot line and leave room to introduce new stories.

@Fenar.4025 said:Cantha is next. Whether Kralkatorrik dies or lives, we will be going there to deal with a certain Sea Dragon. Next most likely locations would be something in the far north or underneath Tyria to deal with either Jormag and/or Primordius. I think it's more likely the developers will leave them asleep untill they feel like more elder dragon stories. Next expansion will tie up the whole elder dragon plot line and leave room to introduce new stories.

Well if Kralky dies world goes boom, but I do agree Cantha is next. Maybe the jade Sea could hold the secret to imprisoning the ED's. If lets say we can re-create the Jade Wind and turn the remaining ED's to Jade. They are still intact with the magic inside so they shouldn't go boom.

Before dealing with Kralkatorrik we need to make sure that the world doesn't end when he dies, which means getting a replacement for him, and also we need a replacement for Zhaitan and Mordremoth since their deaths als destabilized the world, and we still don't know how to replace them. Perhaps the weapon Vlast was speaking of is key to it and I would say that one of the goals in the next expac is to find that weapon.

Also why Cantha? The last we heard of Cantha was that it went into a xenophobic isolationistic dictatorship and right now there is nothing to assume that something changed. Going there could start an intercontinental war and another war is the last thing we need with Kralkatorrik being op right now two Elder Dragons who could awaken any time and a war against elona thats coming now.

Also I'd rather see Anet to go into new lands with new lore instead of trying to push the nostalgia button again. We had that in PoF, now something new would be nice for an expac.

Well i still would find it cool when Joko with his crazy undead brain would bring us into a corner and then just say: surprise this was just a test to see if you are strong enough to face an even greater evil than me, now we are allies and since i helped you back then ( or if you did not choose to take his help another dialogue ) and then we get his funny undead ppl in the citys as npc´s (and maybe some sunspears too, but whatever, i dont really care about sunspears, but i think there might be some players out there that love sunspears too) because he is now our allie...... I dont really wanna kill everybody, i mean:

2 elder dragons (Zhaitan / Mordremoth) : Dead (and i love dragons)crazy plant lady (scarlet) : Deada god (Balthazar) : Dead1 ally (our marshal trahearne) : Dead (we killed him because he asked us)

Now we have crazy undead king Joko.....and after we killed already someone crazy (scarlet) and someone undead ( zhaitan) i think we deserve an undead, crazy allie like Joko where no one can say what he will do next... i mean we already had the option to accept his help, so why would he now turn totally against us, i still hope and think that this whole "i say we go into war" in the trailer is not against us, it is against an even bigger (unknown) evil and the fight against us is just a test to see if we are strong enough to be allies with him instead of just "cannon fodder" for his army.... i really dont wanna kill him he is one of the coolest npc´s i saw and loved after a long time...

(to imprison him again is not an option for me, i really want him as allie, would also be funny for next "shadow of the mad king" event, i mean they know each other...)

@starhunter.6015 said:

@Fenar.4025 said:Cantha is next. Whether Kralkatorrik dies or lives, we will be going there to deal with a certain Sea Dragon. Next most likely locations would be something in the far north or underneath Tyria to deal with either Jormag and/or Primordius. I think it's more likely the developers will leave them asleep untill they feel like more elder dragon stories. Next expansion will tie up the whole elder dragon plot line and leave room to introduce new stories.

That's a very interesting spin on things.> @Walhalla.5473 said:

Before dealing with Kralkatorrik we need to make sure that the world doesn't end when he dies, which means getting a replacement for him, and also we need a replacement for Zhaitan and Mordremoth since their deaths als destabilized the world, and we still don't know how to replace them. Perhaps the weapon Vlast was speaking of is key to it and I would say that one of the goals in the next expac is to find that weapon.

Also why Cantha? The last we heard of Cantha was that it went into a xenophobic isolationistic dictatorship and right now there is nothing to assume that something changed. Going there could start an intercontinental war and another war is the last thing we need with Kralkatorrik being op right now two Elder Dragons who could awaken any time and a war against elona thats coming now.

Also I'd rather see Anet to go into new lands with new lore instead of trying to push the nostalgia button again. We had that in PoF, now something new would be nice for an expac.

Unfortunatly, the Charr expansion idea probably would be a huge flop, so we are not likely to see anything in charr lands outside of living story. Consider that Charr is the least played race and many players would be upset we didn't get Cantha. It's like how people were calling for an expansion set any place other than Cyrstal Desert/Elona becuase those were already explored in GW1. What did Arenanet do? They went to Crystal Desert/Elona because that was the low hanging fruit.

However, maybe it is somehow impossible for arenanet to do a Cantha expansion, in which case they might just reawaken Primordius and Jormag and head to Far Shiverpeaks + Blood legion lands for a combined Norn/Charr expansion. At least that would get more players interested. Still, Cantha = $$$$$.

@"Walhalla.5473" said:Also why Cantha? The last we heard of Cantha was that it went into a xenophobic isolationistic dictatorship and right now there is nothing to assume that something changed. Going there could start an intercontinental war and another war is the last thing we need with Kralkatorrik being op right now two Elder Dragons who could awaken any time and a war against elona thats coming now.The "war" against Elona is going to end before it begins, and Kralkatorik will be dead and replaced before we go to Cantha.

As for why we would go there, some plot about some Canthan sailors/refugees washed up on the shores of Lion Arch and tell everyone about how dragon minion are overwhelming the Empire's armies, so we go there to stop the dragon, and to be good little humanitarians and help out.

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Walhalla.5473" said:Also why Cantha? The last we heard of Cantha was that it went into a xenophobic isolationistic dictatorship and right now there is nothing to assume that something changed. Going there could start an intercontinental war and another war is the last thing we need with Kralkatorrik being op right now two Elder Dragons who could awaken any time and a war against elona thats coming now.The "war" against Elona is going to end before it begins, and Kralkatorik will be dead and replaced before we go to Cantha.

Or the Canthan Dragon Empire is literally being powered by a captured DSD and decides to assault Tyria.

@"Tyson.5160" said:Or the Canthan Dragon Empire is literally being powered by a captured DSD and decides to assault Tyria.I would quit the game if anyone "captured" an Elder Dragon like that.

I also immensely dislike "invasion" stories.

@"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:If by "Tyria's doorstep" you mean, "the middle of Elona", sure.Yes, because from that "middle of Elona" he has already attacked Amnoon and Istan with his extended powers, and he flew from the heart of Vabbi to the mountainside of Kourna - a distance which is only twice that to LA - in less than a full night's time. Not to mention that he took only a few hours to get from the heart of the Blood Legion Homelands to Glint's Lair, which is twice the aforementioned distance.

So sitting in the heart of the neighboring subcontinent is indeed on Tyria's doorstep. Not as much as he was for the past 10 years, and not as close as Zhaitan and Mordremoth were, but still as close as Jormag and Primordus.

Which we quickly dispatched even easier and quicker then the first time. Nice improvements there guys!Pick up a disctionary and look up what "simulacrum" means.

We didn't fight the real thing. We fought a projection of the real thing.

That's kind of like saying "we killed Scarlet Briar when we destroyer her holograms in Twilight Arbor's Aetherbase."

An already existing technology.Only thanks to the Inquest, technically speaking...

We don't need to. After systematically destroying their bases throughout Tyria,Which we haven't done.they have become greatly weakenedWhich they aren't.We see this in places from Dry Top onward, where most of their bases are now just tents, instead of the formerly elaborate structures we saw previously. The most elaborate thing we have seen them build recently was the giant cube... which was blown up in a rather fiery self destruct sequence.Because those places in Dry Top and Draconis Mons aren't bases, they're excavations. They were also brand new, in their early stages. Further, not only Rata Primus, but Fahranur and the place in Desert Highlands also had no tents but plenty of "elaborate structures".

So three out of five places we've been to since the events of the personal story and Arah dungeon, were equivalent to your "pre-too damaged to be a threat" state of the Inquest. Two of those were brand new when we stumbled upon them (one literally just hours old), and even then, there were still fortifications like stone gates, asura gates, and turrets built in on top of those tents.

Uhh no, there is plenty of doubt on that. If Anet wanted her to be anything but a nice callback, they would have done more with her in her initial appearance then have her show up via hologram at the end of an event. That literally screams "unimportant side/callback character"If they wanted to make her an "unimportant side/callback character", she'd be dead by now.Instead, they put her at the end of a meta event, one that screams "we're not done here" and is an obvious example of foreshadowing of the Inquests' current interests.

Or, you know, going to brand new lands to create brand new lore. Like to the east.And what reason would we have to go there?What part of

brand new lore

do you not understand?

What reason did we have to go to Cantha for Factions? What reason did we have to go to Elona for Nightfall? What reason did we have to go to the north for Eye of the North? Why did we go to the Heart of Maguuma for Season 2/Heart of Thorns?

Brand new lore, brand new threats. Every time.

Primordus is below us, Jormag is to the north, and Bubbles is to the south. Besides, east of Elona is the ocean, and the north east is Dzalana, the homeland of the much overused Harpies and Hylek. And to the East of Ascalon is more charr lands, and big inland sea. So, there's really not much to see to the immediate east, and even less reason to go there.

The position of karka, krait, and quaggan actually suggest that the DSD is west by southwest of Tyria, not south.

There's also a landmass the size of Elona east of Elona, before that massive bay-shaped sea. And its heket, not hylek, who live in Dzalana. And there's lots of land around that "big inland sea".

But we have literally no clue what lies in that green verdant land east of Elona. No clue what lies in Dzalana beyond FORMERLY being where harpies came from (remember that they've been trying to leave since at least GW1, and succeeded hence why we have them all the way in Kryta - why did they leave?) and the unknown fate of heket. No clue what lies adjacent to the eastern charr homelands (let alone what lies in them beyond the Blood Citadel).

You say that there's "not much to see" but we literally know nothing but the overall geographical shape from an in-universe outdated world map.

If Anet wanted, there could be entire civilizations out there, warmongers and despots, grand dragonkin races or the noble city-states of "angels" that are the origins of expelled, exiled barbarians Tyrians know as harpies. There could be grand towers and ancient secrets, leftovers of the gods as they roamed and shaped the world. There could be ANYTHING that ArenaNet wants because it'd be an open sandbox for them to create stuff!

And you say there's nothing. Because why? Because we haven't heard of anything there? What did we hear of Cantha before we went there in Factions? Just its name, that it exists, and is where the Xunlai Guild came from. What did we hear of Elona before we went there in Nightfall? Just that it exists, that Turai and his people came from there after fighting an undead lich named Joko. There were no mentions of Kurzicks and Luxons, of Am Fah and Jade Brotherhood, of Shiro Tagachi; no mention of Sunspears and Kournans or Vabbians or Istani or Corsairs.

Yet there is "not much to see to the immediate east, and even less reason to go there."

There are as many reasons as one can dream to go there.

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Tyson.5160" said:Or the Canthan Dragon Empire is literally being powered by a captured DSD and decides to assault Tyria.I would quit the game if anyone "captured" an Elder Dragon like that.

Cantha has probably been able to flourish from a military aspect since they haven’t had the same problem of Elder Dragons to contend with. The Dragon Empire also conquered the Luxons and Kurzicks. So now we have a large super power, with no one to contend with it. I wouldn't be surprised if they were way ahead of the Tyria continent.

You may find yourself quitting.

Edit: Even Joko has to contend with Zhaitan and Kralkatorrik. So hard to say what’s been going on with Cantha.

@"Walhalla.5473" said:Also why Cantha? The last we heard of Cantha was that it went into a xenophobic isolationistic dictatorship and right now there is nothing to assume that something changed. Going there could start an intercontinental war and another war is the last thing we need with Kralkatorrik being op right now two Elder Dragons who could awaken any time and a war against elona thats coming now.

Because people are bent on nostalgia. And other people seem to believe that "if we haven't heard of it yet, there's nothing there".

I agree that it would be more interesting (and, to be honest, far more logical) to go explore new lands than return to Cantha ATM.

The world map shows tons of never explored open spaces. ArenaNet can add in almost whatever they want there, have any plot they want, and leave the established lore for the first time in GW2's history.

Their constant contradictory lore would only benefit from going to new places.

@"Fenar.4025" said:Unfortunatly, the Charr expansion idea probably would be a huge flop, so we are not likely to see anything in charr lands outside of living story. Consider that Charr is the least played race and many players would be upset we didn't get Cantha. It's like how people were calling for an expansion set any place other than Cyrstal Desert/Elona becuase those were already explored in GW1. What did Arenanet do? They went to Crystal Desert/Elona because that was the low hanging fruit.

Given the reaction people had to the Olmakhan, I'm rather doubtful that it would be a huge flop just because charr is the least played race.

People upset over no Cantha would have been upset for the past 6 years. A couple more wouldn't do them more harm.

Anet went to the Crystal Desert not because it's low hanging fruit (at least not solely), but because it was logical. Not for Kralkatorrik or Balthazar or Joko. But for Glint, the Exalted, and Vlast. The plot has been delving into "Glint's Legacy" since Season 2, and it became all the more apparently needed with them going the direction of "killing dragons is bad, mkay" (which was similarly established in Season 2). The plot's direction needed to go into more details about Glint's plans, and this meant finding Vlast. And where would be most likely to find records of the Forgotten, Glint, and Vlast? The crystal desert.

While they, as always, kept the Glint's Legacy as the secondary plot, it's been a major plot since Season 2, and was part of every storyline since Season 2. Whether it came in the form of hunting the egg, defending Tarir, teaching Aurene, finding Kesho and Glint's Lair, or empowering and strentching our bonds with Aurene, the plot had been the secondary main story the entire time, even in Season 4.

And there is nothing in Cantha that relates to the main plot at the moment. No Elder Dragon (despite popular belief, the DSD is hinted to be WEST or at least SOUTHWEST; not south like Cantha) nor Glint related things.

The only relation Cantha has to the three current main plots (Elder Dragons, Glint's Legacy, Joko) is Kuunavang and the possibility she may be useful to dealing with Elder Dragons.

@"Tyson.5160" said:You may find yourself quitting.Na, Anet has actually been pretty good about the Joko invasion plot so far, and I suspect they would handle a Canthan one just the same.

I was worried when they first hinted at it, but immensely relived when they had Rytlock specially state he would contact Logan, and tell him to deal with Joko's forces in Tyria, while we are down in Elona actually dealing with Joko. The big problem with "invasion" plots is that developers try to act like you can win a war solely be being reactionary to your enemy's movements, when war really isn't fought that way. Developers do this so they can just to pull emotional chords by having armies attack well established locations in the game world for shock value, but that really doesn't work due to how transparent that is, and thus, it always falls flat. This would be especially problematic in GW2, which has such a heavily reliance on dynamic event metas. Any invasion of a pre-existing map would mean having to redo the whole map, and thus loose out forever on a prominent part of the game.(even worse then the Tower of Nightmares disaster of an idea) And on the other hand, having them invade a new map would require there be a good space for one(and there isn't).

If Cantha invades, it will be handled like Joko's invasion is, a totally insignificant background thing while we, the player, go out to the source(Cantha) and stop it before it ever becomes an actual serious thing that matters to Tyria proper.

Cantha has probably been able to flourish from a military aspect since they haven’t had the same problem of Elder Dragons to contend with. The Dragon Empire also conquered the Luxons and Kurzicks. So now we have a large super power, with no one to contend with it. I wouldn't be surprised if they were way ahead of the Tyria continent.That would imply the Empire's propaganda wasn't all BS, which it always is in video games. There is a 100% chance that if we go to Cantha, we will find the Empire rife with internal problems as the Luxons and Kurzicks are either secretly, or openly, trying to undermine the Empire's rule, to regain independence, and whatever remains of the sapient non-human races such as the Naga, Tengu, Dredge, and Wardens(because there is no chance they actually got rid of them all because video game plot) will also be crossing blades at the Empire. Not to mention general rebellion from the populace who have grown tired of the Empire's "Ministry of Purity" or w/e they call themselves nowadays, generally heavy-handed tactics.

I agree the new lands with new lore is by far the best idea for the next expansion, or at least very soon. The 3rd one could be the northern Charr lands (the general area from EOTN but all of it), and introduce into the minds of the characters that there is a much, much bigger world out there with things we’ve never heard a single whisper about yet could destroy everything we’ve seen. I believe cantha can come someday and be well done and exactly the right move (in the plot, regardless of notsalgia), but that is not this expansion or even one of the next several.

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Tyson.5160" said:You may find yourself quitting.Na, Anet has actually been pretty good about the Joko invasion plot so far, and I suspect they would handle a Canthan one just the same.

Cantha has probably been able to flourish from a military aspect since they haven’t had the same problem of Elder Dragons to contend with. The Dragon Empire also conquered the Luxons and Kurzicks. So now we have a large super power, with no one to contend with it. I wouldn't be surprised if they were way ahead of the Tyria continent.That would imply the Empire's propaganda wasn't all BS, which it always is in video games. There is a 100% chance that if we go to Cantha, we will find the Empire rife with internal problems as the Luxons and Kurzicks are either secretly, or openly, trying to undermine the Empire's rule, to regain independence, and whatever remains of the sapient non-human races such as the Naga, Tengu, Dredge, and Wardens(because there is no chance they actually got rid of them all because video game plot) will also be crossing blades at the Empire. Not to mention general rebellion from the populace who have grown tired of the Empire's "Ministry of Purity" or w/e they call themselves nowadays, generally heavy-handed tactics.

We should have a better idea with the next couple of episodes of LW.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Walhalla.5473" said:Also why Cantha? The last we heard of Cantha was that it went into a xenophobic isolationistic dictatorship and right now there is nothing to assume that something changed. Going there could start an intercontinental war and another war is the last thing we need with Kralkatorrik being op right now two Elder Dragons who could awaken any time and a war against elona thats coming now.

@"Fenar.4025" said:Unfortunatly, the Charr expansion idea probably would be a huge flop, so we are not likely to see anything in charr lands outside of living story. Consider that Charr is the least played race and many players would be upset we didn't get Cantha. It's like how people were calling for an expansion set any place other than Cyrstal Desert/Elona becuase those were already explored in GW1. What did Arenanet do? They went to Crystal Desert/Elona because that was the low hanging fruit.

I kinda want them to go to Cantha, so it forces Anet’s hand to going to new areas, such as that continent to the west of Tyria that showed a trade route from LA. Or the further unexplored lands to the east.