Is the meta really big deal? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Is the meta really big deal?

So after beating Path of fire on my guardian I got really bored of him. I wanted to start a thief but always hear how bad they are at PvE stuff like raids or fracs. so I picked a Guard and I just fall asleep playing him. thinking of starting a thief but I don't want to get kicked from groups for not being "meta" and I don't have my own guild. I don't know what to do can I get some advice?

Comments

  • Phosphorite.6192Phosphorite.6192 Member ✭✭✭

    It's difficult to say. Personally, I don't care about the Meta at all but I also don't raid. In fractals however, I'm able to pull my weight, even though my build is not meta at all (DE condi with sustain).
    From what I've heard there are many "elitists" who only chose ppl with meta builds for pugs but it should be possible to find a "casual" raiding group that doesn't put as much emphasise on it. Generally I would say, as long as you reach what's necessary in a raid, ppl shouldn't care if it's meta or not.

  • cryonic.4826cryonic.4826 Member ✭✭

    @Phosphorite.6192 said:
    It's difficult to say. Personally, I don't care about the Meta at all but I also don't raid. In fractals however, I'm able to pull my weight, even though my build is not meta at all (DE condi with sustain).
    From what I've heard there are many "elitists" who only chose ppl with meta builds for pugs but it should be possible to find a "casual" raiding group that doesn't put as much emphasise on it. Generally I would say, as long as you reach what's necessary in a raid, ppl shouldn't care if it's meta or not.

    Thanks for the clear response Just wondering where I can find a guild that well let me raid with them

  • Phosphorite.6192Phosphorite.6192 Member ✭✭✭

    The "Looking for Guild" Thread here in the forum would be one place to look. Just post a thing with what you're looking for and maybe someone answers! You can also ask in the map chat in Lion's Arch, there's usually a lot going on there as well.

  • Evolute.6239Evolute.6239 Member ✭✭✭

    if you find a friend group, you can play whatever you like and probably succeed.

    if you want to pug, people expect meta because its the most efficient and easiest way to succeed

    thief is fine regardless though, and you should not have many issues finding groups even as a staff daredevil

  • Pugging in T4 fracs with Daredevil. Hard to get used to, as it feels like you have 1hp and die instantly if you make a mistake. If you're up for a challenge and are motivated to fully learn all mechanics, go for it.

  • SlippyCheeze.5483SlippyCheeze.5483 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @gateless gate.8406 said:
    Pugging in T4 fracs with Daredevil. Hard to get used to, as it feels like you have 1hp and die instantly if you make a mistake. If you're up for a challenge and are motivated to fully learn all mechanics, go for it.

    Thief is definitely one of the most active defense classes in the game, for sure. Can be super-strong, but in ignorant hands, mine is way squishier ;)

  • Seteruss.4058Seteruss.4058 Member ✭✭✭

    Keep a meta class for situation like fractals and such, and get whatever main you like :)

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2018

    Thief with its unique stolen Raid skills can be very helpful for ur group in many encounters. But The thing with thief and its easy rotation is that players expect you to Bring dat dps on The table. Like i said in other Post already "If your chrono and druid are doing their job, you as thief have no excuses to do under 23k dps in bosses like VG"

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2018

    It's only a big deal to those that insist you play meta. If those people didn't exist, we could still complete content in groups, how we want and having fun doing it. In otherwords, it's an artificial construct made by players willing to trade versatility in builds with optimal play.

  • SlippyCheeze.5483SlippyCheeze.5483 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    It's only a big deal to those that insist you play meta. If those people didn't exist, we could still complete content in groups, how we want and having fun doing it. In otherwords, it's an artificial construct made by players willing to trade versatility in builds with optimal play.

    Trade versatility for builds that theoretically have the best DPS output, provided they are executed perfectly, when tested against a static target, with all buffs, in a way that isn't terribly reflective of the real world. ;)

    https://www.gw2raidar.com/info-help will give a much better impression of real world performance, with the "global stats" being across every boss averaged out, while the individual encounter stats show you details for those. Don't forget to adjust the percentiles, since it defaults to the 30 percent mark. ;)

  • Sephylon.4938Sephylon.4938 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2018

    For fractals as long as you're not downing alot, out dpsing the druid and mesmer, atleast look like you know what you're doing, and not acting loke a total kitten, you'll be fine as a thief. For raids, I did fine as a thief in vg pulling off 22k, but to be fair it was a drunk vg run I pugged and I may have not been at the top of my game XD. Least we got it killed, and I got a deathwish from it to boot 😁

    Rule if thumb, unless they ask for a specific class, any class can dps, just don't be the lowest dps of the group in raids to avoid being kicked. Most pugs average about 15k, with good ones doing about 25-30

    I am a giant tomato filled with love. I have come to sell you a house made out of pancakes.

  • cryonic.4826cryonic.4826 Member ✭✭

    @Sephylon.4938 said:
    For fractals as long as you're not downing alot, out dpsing the druid and mesmer, atleast look like you know what you're doing, and not acting loke a total kitten, you'll be fine as a thief. For raids, I did fine as a thief in vg pulling off 22k, but to be fair it was a drunk vg run I pugged and I may have not been at the top of my game XD. Least we got it killed, and I got a deathwish from it to boot 😁

    Rule if thumb, unless they ask for a specific class, any class can dps, just don't be the lowest dps of the group in raids to avoid being kicked. Most pugs average about 15k, with good ones doing about 25-30

    Is dpsing hard I have literally only played tanks and healers from other.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There will always be optimal builds, but personally i am not a fan of meta minds. More doverse Meta builds would be good but this would imply power creep.
    Meta builds are a good tool if you running real hard stuff or in competitive modes but for Open PvE and dungeons/T1-2 try fun builds and what you like, it is way better for playfeeling and creativity.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    There will always be optimal builds, but personally i am not a fan of meta minds. More doverse Meta builds would be good but this would imply power creep.
    Meta builds are a good tool if you running real hard stuff or in competitive modes but for Open PvE and dungeons/T1-2 try fun builds and what you like, it is way better for playfeeling and creativity.

    This, meta builds Works If ur whole party or Squad is build around meta.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Sephylon.4938Sephylon.4938 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 28, 2018

    @cryonic.4826 said:

    @Sephylon.4938 said:
    For fractals as long as you're not downing alot, out dpsing the druid and mesmer, atleast look like you know what you're doing, and not acting loke a total kitten, you'll be fine as a thief. For raids, I did fine as a thief in vg pulling off 22k, but to be fair it was a drunk vg run I pugged and I may have not been at the top of my game XD. Least we got it killed, and I got a deathwish from it to boot 😁

    Rule if thumb, unless they ask for a specific class, any class can dps, just don't be the lowest dps of the group in raids to avoid being kicked. Most pugs average about 15k, with good ones doing about 25-30

    Is dpsing hard I have literally only played tanks and healers from other.

    It gets easier the more you do it. I'd suggest practicing the rotations on the training golem. I find that the more familiar you are with it, the less you panic when things go wrong. Being able to think on your feet is the most is the most important thing; learn how you deal damage, and learn how to pick it back up when you put it down to deal with mechanics.

    I am a giant tomato filled with love. I have come to sell you a house made out of pancakes.

  • jan.7915jan.7915 Member ✭✭
    edited June 28, 2018

    I know how it sounds but yes meta is important . you will get ppl telling you how they go non meta and do okay but those aren't you.you are asking and therefore you are not the best that can play a raid with a handicap yet. Also you don't have a static that lets you so it because they can beat the boss one player down .groups want players that are there to give the best they can which is using a meta build.

    That being said any guild that you belong to with ppl that you interact friendly with will take u whatever you play, peronally I wouldn't want to drag them down because I believe that I am too good to play a boring meta build.

    Ps: for anything solo play meta doesn't matter and maybe some sustain builds for example work better for certain ppl.maybe sustain works better for some in fractals too because it is mitigating mechanical errors.

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 28, 2018

    2 scenarios in which you will play off-meta;

    1- You join a bad raiding guild that just likes to waste a lot of time joking around and doesn't even clear 60% of a raid in one raid night's full 3-4 hours. Clearly, getting kills efficiently and making the most of their time is not a priority.

    2- You join a competent guild and have been in it long enough or have irl friends that allows you to humour playing non-meta builds as your competence has been trusted.

    In any other scenario you won't make the raid roster playing clearly suboptimal builds like power reaper or ranger. Why would a good guild allow you to waste their time playing a spec that's doing 5k+ DPS less than another spec would?

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2018

    @jan.7915 said:
    I know how it sounds but yes meta is important . you will get ppl telling you how they go non meta and do okay but those aren't you.you are asking and therefore you are not the best that can play a raid with a handicap yet. Also you don't have a static that lets you so it because they can beat the boss one player down .groups want players that are there to give the best they can which is using a meta build.

    That being said any guild that you belong to with ppl that you interact friendly with will take u whatever you play, peronally I wouldn't want to drag them down because I believe that I am too good to play a boring meta build.

    Ps: for anything solo play meta doesn't matter and maybe some sustain builds for example work better for certain ppl.maybe sustain works better for some in fractals too because it is mitigating mechanical errors.

    There is some fallacy here ... if the person asking isn't good enough to optimally play his non-meta build, why would he be good enough to optimally play a meta build?

    Let's get this out of the way; simply equipping a meta build does not default someone to being better than playing a non-meta build. A player will drag down a team with a lack of experience REGARDLESS of the build he uses. If anything, a meta build that is typically optimized for DPS in a team-setting, could actually put a low-experience player at a HIGHER risk of 'dragging down the team' than using a non-meta builds that may decrease his DPS, but also keep him alive. I see no benefit to promoting meta builds at the expense of new player experience and risk over the benefit it will provide a team of 9 other more experienced players that probably don't even need him to successfully complete the content. That makes no sense.

    There is no room to promote meta builds to people that 1) do not play with players that demand meta builds in teams or 2) can't play them optimally where a team may not have fully capable meta players. Bottomline is that the scope of relevance for using meta builds is actually really small and unnecessary. They aren't important, at all, unless you are going to run with a full group of hardcore meta build players.

  • Comus.7365Comus.7365 Member ✭✭

    yeah don't just copy paste a build.. if you do you won't know the reasoning behind it and will not know how to properly play it.
    i've done some browsing on metabattle and they're generally quite detailed.

    personally i try to make my own builds because i have a particular way i like to do things and popular builds generally don't represent that.

  • Gwaihir.1745Gwaihir.1745 Member ✭✭✭

    Metabattle.com is not a good site. Taken directly from their site:

    "It must be great in the hands of any player."

    These are not top tier builds. They are purposefully unoptimized and mediocre. The curators purposefully remove extremely good builds just because they 'are hard to play."
    The site caters to bad play.

    Shield of Wrath: Reduced the cooldown of this skill from 36 seconds to 35 seconds.

    Quality balance changes^TM

  • cryonic.4826cryonic.4826 Member ✭✭

    @Gwaihir.1745 said:
    Metabattle.com is not a good site. Taken directly from their site:

    "It must be great in the hands of any player."

    These are not top tier builds. They are purposefully unoptimized and mediocre. The curators purposefully remove extremely good builds just because they 'are hard to play."
    The site caters to bad play.

    I did not know that where can I find good pve builds? thanks in advance

  • Eleazar.9478Eleazar.9478 Member ✭✭✭

    Lol op thief in pve is even more boring I'd say the rotations are waaayy less complex than gaurdian . but as a dpser it's fine I'd suggest going the condition route first then switch to the power version simply becuase condies are easier to maintain high consistent dps. But either or is fine thief is pretty forgiveing especially Daredevil. You just have to manage your dodges and initative.

  • Sephylon.4938Sephylon.4938 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cryonic.4826 said:

    @Gwaihir.1745 said:
    Metabattle.com is not a good site. Taken directly from their site:

    "It must be great in the hands of any player."

    These are not top tier builds. They are purposefully unoptimized and mediocre. The curators purposefully remove extremely good builds just because they 'are hard to play."
    The site caters to bad play.

    I did not know that where can I find good pve builds? thanks in advance

    try these 2
    https://snowcrows.com/ - raids
    https://discretize.eu/ - fractals

    I am a giant tomato filled with love. I have come to sell you a house made out of pancakes.

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