Feedback: Official Living World Season 4 Episode 3 Feedback [MANY SPOILERS] - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Feedback: Official Living World Season 4 Episode 3 Feedback [MANY SPOILERS]

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  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Additional Bank Tabs; additional items added to Material Storage; non-RNG acquisition of Mount Skins; the inclusion of Black Lion Statuettes to Black Lion Chests; added Glyphs and the ability to change skins on Gathering Tools; added the ability to sit in chairs; etc., etc.

    All things players have asked for in the past.

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    In the first story instance behind the ship while fighting the boss, in the water near the mastery point and near the point of interest for old amnoon there is a reflection of almost a bright rainbow of colors. But there's nothing above it to reflect those colors. Is this a weird graphic glitch, an affect? It doesn't really bother me, just wondering if anyone else noticed it.

    It may be from the statue in the hold of the ship that was glowing during the fight(s).

    I'm curious what happens if one does not destroy the statue, now, as that was the option I chose. I suppose I will have to take another character through, and choose not to.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    In the first story instance behind the ship while fighting the boss, in the water near the mastery point and near the point of interest for old amnoon there is a reflection of almost a bright rainbow of colors. But there's nothing above it to reflect those colors. Is this a weird graphic glitch, an affect? It doesn't really bother me, just wondering if anyone else noticed it.

    It may be from the statue in the hold of the ship that was glowing during the fight(s).

    I'm curious what happens if one does not destroy the statue, now, as that was the option I chose. I suppose I will have to take another character through, and choose not to.

    I must have missed this. When I got to the ship or approached it it said that I was leaving the instance? Hmmm...

  • Zalani.9827Zalani.9827 Member ✭✭✭

    So far I liked the first instance, especially Jokos lines and the secret on the ship. It's also nice that your choice in Amnoon effects his dialogue.

    Currently I only managed to get to picking up Blish's arm but I am looking forward to continuing the story.

    Jadis Narnia, Sylvari Ranger of [VoS]

    Praise Joko!

  • JaddynnStarr.5201JaddynnStarr.5201 Member ✭✭✭

    Gaile…. the patch lets you in the instance but kicks you out.... so still borked...

  • Zephic.3075Zephic.3075 Member ✭✭

    I have not been able to get past the first instance of the story as I keep disconnecting at various points. Hoping that this will be fixed soon and I can actually see the new map.

  • JustTrogdor.7892JustTrogdor.7892 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2018

    Maybe should remove this thread until people can actually play the episode. Hard to give feedback until then. ;)

  • DorDor.8617DorDor.8617 Member ✭✭
    edited June 27, 2018

    @Twyn.7320 said:

    @DorDor.8617 said:

    @Twyn.7320 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Twyn.7320 said:
    I'm looking forward to effectively like playing Lord of the Guild Wars 2: Return of the King. Like, it's not original or plausible so far, so I hope it gets better later on!

    Would you mind going into detail?

    What exactly is not plausible? And why would it have to be original? The characters in the story are pretty original no? Not like settings can only ever be done once

    Generally, the Scarab Plague is an airborne disease, so if Amnoon isn't crippled by a mass outbreak, it's a bit silly. Additionally, Gorrik wandering around as a test subject is equally as dumb, and no one challenges the concept. They're so passive to the idea of letting an Asura wander around despite being contaminated. Even if it 'doesn't affect anything other than Humans', it could still spread to Humans by just being around Gorrik.

    The characters are effectively stereotypes, and are in real need of character development that's well-written. I hope Braham actually gets treatment this time, instead of being drowned out by Taimi because 'reasons'. It's been said multiple times by multiple people, all of which are being objective, but Guild Wars 2 needs to choose its story tone. Is it trying to be a Disney-type adventure, or is it trying to be more mature? If it's a Disney-type adventure, spend more time with Taimi and Gorrik. If it's a mature story, spend more time with characters like Rytlock, Kasmeer and Braham. Of course, it's my subjective opinion as to which characters fit a more mature tone, but Guild Wars 2 stands out as being a bit too... 'no consequences, big actions'. The obvious answer to all of this is: 'Stop playing if you're so negative about it.' However, it doesn't fix anything. There are problems with Guild Wars 2 right now, the most important being a lack of communication and a lack of understanding of what the community actually wants. If Guild Wars 2's community declined until only blindly optimistic people remained, it wouldn't be financially viable to keep the servers open. The irony is that Guild Wars 2's community is trying to stop ArenaNet from destroying something with so much potential, but either through lack of attention or lack of staffing, they aren't able to fix the right things efficiently. (I know I've deviated from the main point, but it's important to get it out there with a new, buggy and largely underwhelming release.)

    It's fine for settings to be re-done, but it's a setting that's over-done. We're collecting a spectral army to fight an immense evil, and banish them from the realm of the living. It's a quick fix, with no trials in the way, because it's the only way to fight and defeat Joko. We literally ask them to help and they say: 'Yah, gucci, let's go!' And then, we're meant to portal off to fight him. (Which no one can do at the moment, SoonTM.) But the main issue is actually the question you've asked to me...

    'Why would it have to be original?'

    This is a problem. Every game should strive to have an original storyline. Yah, you can borrow aspects from other things, it'd be impossible not to. However, you shouldn't rip entire story points, identically from another piece of media, and expect people to not notice. The ghost army is, dialogue-excluded, ripped off from Lord of the Rings: Return of the King. And I might be wrong in the approach, but if the Primeval Army is the primary reason as to why we defeat Joko, it'll be a carbon copy. Though, I don't want Joko to die, because he hasn't been developed. Though, I guarantee that he's going to die today, or be banished from the storyline.

    Question: How are you, and you alone, the arbiter of "what the community actually wants?"

    Because I'm very active in this community, and from what I've seen, you're in the minority on this. General consensus on Reddit, on Tumblr and within the game itself (frankly, everywhere but the main forums) is pretty positive on Path of Fire, occasional storytelling blunders aside. I've seen a lot of very passionate critics praise the direction the game's taken, just months after taking them to task for the writing problems in Season 3. As far as community opinion goes, it's a far cry from the dark days of the Scarlet arc.

    Your opinion is your opinion and I'm sure there plenty of people who agree with it. Heck, I can certainly agree with parts of it, even if I don't agree with the main point. But for better or worse, Arenanet IS listening to us. You just don't like the ideas they're listening to.

    I haven't claimed to be the sole arbiter of 'what the community actually wants'. However, a simple flick through the forums shows that notoriously, the community desires things and hardly get them. The community wants raiding information, and they've been unable to gain it. The community wants balancing in PvP, but the correct balancing, and it's never arrived in full force, and trashed specs that didn't need to be trashed in the first place. Sections of the community desire a particular story focus, and regardless of where you stand on the issue, it objectively hasn't changed since Living World Season 3. The community wants more general communication on any releases or issues, but still, Anet's provided nothing to remove the painful desire.

    I'm equally active in this community, and from what I've seen, I'm in a clear majority. If the general consensus of everywhere APART from the main game's forums is positive, but the game's forums are wholly negative and controversial, wouldn't it be safer to say that it's split down the middle? Naturally, official game forums make up the 'majority of accounts' for that game. However, it's a stab in the dark, and without actual figures, I can't say it's a definite and neither should you. Additionally, players of Guild Wars 2 (EU) regularly complain in-game of a lack of content to do, at least from my experience. EU players are usually more cynical, however, from experience.

    The problem with comparing the community with the basis of 'the dark days of the Scarlet arc' is that this was 4 years ago. Naturally, Guild Wars 2 has progressed since then into a completely different experience. However, some of those complaints are still current. In the villain department, I've seen many players regularly complain about the lack of a compelling antagonist that they feel is both realistic and adheres to a degree of pathos, which is important for any narrative paradigm. If we don't feel for the villain's actions, or understand why they've acted in a particular way that seems plausible, backed with snazzy dialogue, villainy is pointless. This is a problem that was common in 2014, and is still common in 2018. If the same issue exists in a four-year time span, there's a clear problem. It's the same with balancing, but I'm not going to go into that aspect because other people who know 'numbers and percentiles' can do it far better than I can!

    The thing that I need to ask you is: Can you give me a number of examples/instances where Anet has listened and implemented a requested change over a long-term, since the start of Living World Season 3? If Anet produces a good change, I step back, smile and nod. But I'm yet to see a change that actually feels worthwhile and is overtly different. The only change is 'Mounts', IMO. They're still developing for them, and in this case, I smiled and nodded in acceptance. Provide at least four others.

    Sure I can. My first example is Living World Season 3. The whole concept.

    After Heart of Thorns, there were a ton of complaints about the content droughts the expansion caused. There were complaints about how small and unsubstantial Season 2 episodes ended up being. And there were especially complaints about the direction of the story, and how it was ignoring certain storylines that fans desperately wanted to see play out.

    Arenanet responded with nothing short of a complete, comprehensive overhaul of their entire company structure. They established multiple Living World teams, each capable of delivering an episode with a full map's worth of content. They created a system of staggered releases that allowed Episodes to be released in a tight, closely-followed schedule. And they deliberately went for storylines tailor-made to appease old-guard fans: the White Mantle, Livia, the fate of Saul D'Alessio and the reappearance of the Gods. It was created to be a crowd-pleaser, a means to win back the trust of the people, and though it didn't always succeed in that, it does show us the mindset Arenanet's been in since the failure of HoT.

    Of course, Season 3 had plenty of criticism as well, and the Path of Fire devs addressed those criticisms when it was their turn for a release. There were complaints about Season 3's bloated cast and scattered plotting, so they went out of their way to tell a more focused story with a smaller cast of characters. Season 4 continued that trend, taking us back to a much-requested location, Istan, and giving Braham some much-needed development after what they did with him in Season 3. Now, Episode 3 is bringing us Gandara (another heavily requested setting) and Roller Beetles (a mount I've seen a ton of people clamoring for).

    They've been a bit less proactive on the PvP/WvW side of things, but one cannot overestimate the impact the overhaul of Ranked play had on the PvP scene. The addition of Seasons, Automated Tournaments, the larger map pool and even that little free-for-all Murder Arena in the Heart of the Mists were all stuff the PvP community requested and received. Also, have you heard about those changes coming to World vs World in the not-too-distant future? That whole Guild Alliance system? I've heard requests for exactly that sort of thing since I first joined the community. It's not in the game yet, but it's coming, so I figure it makes the list, too.

    I understand how you came to the conclusion that Arenanet doesn't listen. You get your information from the forums, the place our entire community goes to vent where they know the devs will hear them. This is a big, giant complaint box. But that kind of focused negativity isn't a fair impression. Arenanet is one of the most transparent game developers I've ever seen. It's why I'm willing to cut them so much slack when they do screw up. They earned my respect.

    http://wanderingstoryteller.tumblr.com ~ The Most Amateur of Amateur Guild Wars Blogs!

  • Hybarf Tics.2048Hybarf Tics.2048 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2018

    10:54 EST I just had an update and I thought to myself the fix is in. I logged in to realize the bug still in, not a chance to get in. Close to 4 months for this what a let down Anet, this is so lame. We should change the title from " Long live the lich" to "Long live the bug" :#

  • Miss Lana.5276Miss Lana.5276 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2018

    Welp, impressions so far aren't great. I checked the mount mastery and saw it was locked behind a collection, whatever, that's nbd, but then the experience that you give as a reward for the first two instances goes toward nothing. Why even bother giving it out in the first place?

    Fortunately I arrived at the second instance just before the fix for it went up, but to release it at this state - as someone else mentioned in the thread - is unprofessional bordering on incompetent. Finishing the instance itself was fine, I enjoyed the stealth option, but was severely disappointed with being unable to get into the new map.

    How about before letting PR run away with the hype, hold them back and make sure the release is actually playable first.

    I'm off to play something that actually works.

    Disagreement =/= "negativity"
    Criticism =/= "hate"

  • For now, I'm glad I didn't call off work. Hopefully, when I get off in the morning it'll be fixed. I actually wasn't planning on playing this until I get my time off from work starting on Friday so as long as it gets fixed by then I have no complaints.

  • Rhyse.8179Rhyse.8179 Member ✭✭✭

    All I wanted... ALL that I wanted... is a frikkin balance patch.

    I guess I'll log in for the LS unlock, but I don't see any reason to actually play.

  • Rauderi.8706Rauderi.8706 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pifil.5193 said:
    My initial impressions aren't great.

    Same.
    I waited until the post-reset build to start, so my play time was limited, but I'm.. not content.

    Story is progressing smoothly.
    Not happy about the re-replay nature of some of the achievements.

    The stealth toolkit was actually pretty grand. (Possible upcoming Thief Elite with kits? :3)
    ...it's just a shame most of my problem solving got blunted by hyper-active AI able to see me do every tiny thing, and trebuchets I couldn't do anything about until I was allowed to. Bad conveyance. Bad.
    Kinda the same for keeping track of Canach. His little target marker and the tiny green bomb squiggle weren't very visible.

    Conveyance is critical

    Also, real talk, if we're going to have high places that require springers, please stop putting things directly over our heads. We cannot look up. Again, conveyance. And the mastery point that was supposed to be a weird springer cavern climb? Bad. It was stupidly cramped, ledges overhead, slippery terrain that doesn't read well.. Again, conveyance was desperately required.

    Jacarundas and Ibogas join the CC-parade, again. I suspect that once I'm done, I'll be avoiding big chunks of this zone, just like Istan. Seriously, the CC and condi barrage is a big problem throughout the entirety of the game that needs a permanent fix, right down to revising original design philosophy for enemy creation.

    Bug: Can't put the new scroll in the book. C'mon, ANet, this is basic stuff by this point. :(

    And another Condi/healing set. Why? Can we get a decent Power/Conc/Heal or Power/Prec/Conc/Heal somewhere? Please?

    Many alts! Handle it!

    "A condescending answer might as well not be an answer at all."
    -Eloc Freidon.5692

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    General Impressions

    For something that was delayed we have a lot of issues here. I've only recently been able to get into Kourna and there's various storyline bugs with transformations that are questionable.

    There's also extremely poor server performance, I'm sure these are all being worked on though. (Crashes, Extreme latency)

    The collection for the mount is interesting and i hope to have it done, but i question why we aren't earning experience in the mean time ?

    Have not touched other content yet to comment on their states, but the Open World and Story are in bad shape and i hope to be able to give better feedback once resolved.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Okay the second instance is amazing. Lots of fun toys to play around with and after seeing the map I can understand how issues could happen. This is a large one for sure.

    Smugly chuckling forever.
    My sentence doesn't make sense? Well, I probably forgot to write half of it before posting.

  • Calliope.8675Calliope.8675 Member ✭✭
    edited June 27, 2018

    Things I like...
    New story
    Returning characters (the twin queens, faren)
    Canach is a obviously growing to be a crowd favorite, please, can we have more of him (short stories, "current events," or something?)
    Braham isn't acting like a little kitten at the moment, still a snot though
    New fractal is really cool, it seems a little underwhelming (on T4) compared to other fractals

    • the 3rd puzzle (getting across the chasm) took a while to spawn/complete

    Things I don't like...
    So many issues with the instances
    Unskippable dialogue (I like hearing it once, but I should have the ability to skip it if I don't want to waste 20min of progress listening to it again)
    Having to do hearts on all of the new maps to progress the story, busy work is not fun (even Faren said as much)
    Traps in Be My Guest spawn too quickly and deal too much damage to compensate, this makes disabling the traps in the halls difficult

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2018

    Has anybody figured out how exactly "Trip the Quantum Fantastic" is supposed to work? I've tried about everything that came to mind

    "Disorient Awakened using the Quantum Mass Displacement Matrix" but porting into them doesn't do anything. Using it while standing on top of them doesn't do anything. Since it says trip I've tried getting in front of them as they move but that doesn't help either

    Smugly chuckling forever.
    My sentence doesn't make sense? Well, I probably forgot to write half of it before posting.

  • SunTzu.4513SunTzu.4513 Member ✭✭✭

    Have made it to the new map, so far it's okay like Jokos acting. But for the sake of god please split your storyparts in a few more shorter instances.

  • Brother.1504Brother.1504 Member ✭✭✭

    @KronosBaelfire.6289 said:
    For now, I'm glad I didn't call off work. Hopefully, when I get off in the morning it'll be fixed. I actually wasn't planning on playing this until I get my time off from work starting on Friday so as long as it gets fixed by then I have no complaints.

    Not complaining about the broken content patch, been playing mmos many years, kinda goes with the genre. I’m in the same situation, glad I didn’t take time off work for the patch. Hopefully bugs fixed by days off starting Friday morning.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Is it fixed yet? As another programmer it is hard not to sympathize, however anet has much more resources they can bring to a problem than a solitary dev.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • SunTzu.4513SunTzu.4513 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2018

    Okay i'm done with the story. Overall story telling 8/10. I like how Joko is acting like a mix of a real bad villain and an narcissistic psychopath with a strange sense of humor. Faren appearence gives bonus points ^^

    Overall difficulty 7/10. Nothing really hard crosses my way.

    Build up/misson design 5/10. Overall it's okay but imo some of the story parts are just too long. This overshadows the good design for me. Please put in some saving points or cut them into smaller pieces. Also i'm getting really tired of these sneaking parts.

    The new map: 5/10. Normaly i would rate the map itself higher (about 7/10 thematically it's great) but it has one great letdown for me: The bug mount. I know some people love collections and i also agree to the point if you want something let's do something for it. But for me personally collections are just boring and i have to force myself into them. Now one will come and tell me: don't do them if you dont want it. I normally would agree, but it seems i need the bug to break trough walls to get into some hidden rooms on the map. If the bug would like the griffon (wich is just some kind of a qol mount wich takes from the PoF launch till two weeks ago to for me to complete) i would say it's a cool feature but so it's just painfull to get for me and pushes the game into a direction i really dislike.

    Edit: I've done the beetle collection. It's not the worst one the biggest issue is that all the specific mob spawnpoints are hopless over farmed. The rest were okayish but not really fun to me. Now i got this beetle pod racer and can do 100% of the map. Still thinking that a mount wich is needed for 100% of the map should not be gated behind a collection.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SunTzu.4513 said:
    Okay i'm done with the story. Overall story telling 8/10. I like how Joko is acting like a mix of a real bad villain and an narcissistic psychopath with a strange sense of humor. Faren appearence gives bonus points ^^

    Overall difficulty 7/10. Nothing really hard crosses my way.

    Build up/misson design 5/10. Overall it's okay but imo some of the story parts are just too long. This overshadows the good design for me. Please put in some saving points or cut them into smaller pieces. Also i'm getting really tired of these sneaking parts.

    The new map: 5/10. Normaly i would rate the map itself higher (about 7/10 thematically it's great) but it has one great letdown for me: The bug mount. I know some people love collections and i also agree to the point if you want something let's do something for it. But for me personally collections are just boring and i have to force myself into them. Now one will come and tell me: don't do them if you dont want it. I normally would agree, but it seems i need the bug to break trough walls to get into some hidden rooms on the map. If the bug would like the griffon (wich is just some kind of a qol mount wich takes from the PoF launch till two weeks ago to for me to complete) i would say it's a cool feature but so it's just painfull to get for me and pushes the game into a direction i really dislike.

    Sadly collections are the only way to get people to play older content. In case of these collections most of it is simply exploring the map and pressing F on spots, something that would be very natural. The bad part to me was only that you have to play the story up until then to unlock them and I already explored before, leaving me ever so slightly annoyed.

    And I don't think a reminder that the Leyline Anomaly exists is that bad. It's one of the few events I've never bothered chasing but now I'll have a reason to.

    This is as close to quests as we will ever get

    Smugly chuckling forever.
    My sentence doesn't make sense? Well, I probably forgot to write half of it before posting.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Stuck AGAIN because of bugs. Now getting network error, and cant finish the story. is by far the worst new content in matter of bug free. its going to 1 day now.

    "It's a testament to the folly of the humans and their gods. They say Arah was sacred, but all I see is one big dragon nest."(Rytlock Brimstone)

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The new mount is great and all but this was overall by far the weakest LW episode in a long time. At least the Sandswept Isles are great from an aesthetic point of view, making me wish the events were a little bit more rewarding but this isn't the case with the Domain of Kourna at all. It's just a generic and forgettable map wich I can't see myself visiting ever again once I'm done with all the achievements.

    This episode also shows that you guys haven't lerned anything from your past mistakes, the cannon purchasable from the heart vendor is yet another one of these crappy one time use items, it's really saddening to see anoter good opportunity wasted like this. Hopefully you are going to put more effort and thought into future episodes.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2018

    MMh let's update my feedback: I give in same time a comparison with sandswept isles:
    Story:
    -S4E2: Great, learn a ton of things, apart the golem fight in the village. 7/10
    -S4E3: Can't really tell with all these bugs, got downed at every boss. Cinematics and the progress is awesome APART this horrible end. 4.5/10
    Map design/environment:
    -S4E2: Excellent organization, beautiful, but a ton of Inquest closed gates... 9/10
    -S4E3: Meh only like Gandara and Inquest Bases + these crytals all around should be the new currency. GANDARA isn't fully explored! 3/10
    Quests:
    -S4E2: They were very interesting and captivating. 8/10
    -S4E3: Good but will not bring me back here. 6/10
    MetaEvent: In both case S4E2 and S4E3, they are awesome, 8/10 for S4E2 and 6/10 for E3 because finishing the south meta at Inquest Lead researcher is pointless...
    Again, an giant inaccessible giant area AGAIN: Moon fortress gandara, seriously, STOP WITH THAT, the same issue as rata primus, all areas should be exploitable WHEN we want not locked behind the story, it breaks immersion these giant invisible walls you put here! Meta way to short within the fortress....

    Overall rating: S4E2: yeah 8/10 I will say, great in general, but only a half for this new one: 4/10, feel like the mount is just to fill the emptiness of the episode....

    Keep decreasing the LS episode quality and I will not play them ever again.

    +++In creative mood. New Engie Elite spec' , Housing , New asuran expansion , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    +++NEW: AEP Asuran Expansion Project available on WIKI.
    +++New: GEM GW2 Exploration Map: Discover unusual places around tyria: Here (OSM map)

  • It's a really frustrating game experience with so many bugs disconnecting me again and again while I was doing the story instance. :s

    And what's worse, I need to start it for the beginning because the instance cannot save the last checkpoint I have reached.... :'(

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fix this ASAP, Anet!

  • Soggy Biscuit.9372Soggy Biscuit.9372 Member ✭✭
    edited June 27, 2018

    Just started but looks very solid, tight, and the best of all, so far no mega-cringy/annoying dialogue that tortured us in many parts of past LS.

    Also enjoyed the music with actually recognizable melodies as opposed to usual ambient-sh bland pieces. I'm not sure if you newly added them or I just had them muted all along.

  • Well i got to second instance of the story and what i find? Bugs that prevent me from finishing mission- specifically with stupid trebuches which doesn't respawn! Why it's a problem? Because i had audacity to destroy some of them when i scouted battlefield. But then oh suprise i got objective to destroy them -_- and now i can't and i wasted hour on this... gg anet. For me now LS is only 2/10- frustrating mess from start. Story? Well it's obviously about bugs... Unfortunately bugs in the game.

  • Aeon.4583Aeon.4583 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2018

    Little complaint! Why in the world you named that bug Petey? It should be Opty! Opty with Roll Out ability...

  • Harper.4173Harper.4173 Member ✭✭✭

    @DorDor.8617 said:

    @Twyn.7320 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Twyn.7320 said:
    I'm looking forward to effectively like playing Lord of the Guild Wars 2: Return of the King. Like, it's not original or plausible so far, so I hope it gets better later on!

    Would you mind going into detail?

    What exactly is not plausible? And why would it have to be original? The characters in the story are pretty original no? Not like settings can only ever be done once

    Generally, the Scarab Plague is an airborne disease, so if Amnoon isn't crippled by a mass outbreak, it's a bit silly. Additionally, Gorrik wandering around as a test subject is equally as dumb, and no one challenges the concept. They're so passive to the idea of letting an Asura wander around despite being contaminated. Even if it 'doesn't affect anything other than Humans', it could still spread to Humans by just being around Gorrik.

    The characters are effectively stereotypes, and are in real need of character development that's well-written. I hope Braham actually gets treatment this time, instead of being drowned out by Taimi because 'reasons'. It's been said multiple times by multiple people, all of which are being objective, but Guild Wars 2 needs to choose its story tone. Is it trying to be a Disney-type adventure, or is it trying to be more mature? If it's a Disney-type adventure, spend more time with Taimi and Gorrik. If it's a mature story, spend more time with characters like Rytlock, Kasmeer and Braham. Of course, it's my subjective opinion as to which characters fit a more mature tone, but Guild Wars 2 stands out as being a bit too... 'no consequences, big actions'. The obvious answer to all of this is: 'Stop playing if you're so negative about it.' However, it doesn't fix anything. There are problems with Guild Wars 2 right now, the most important being a lack of communication and a lack of understanding of what the community actually wants. If Guild Wars 2's community declined until only blindly optimistic people remained, it wouldn't be financially viable to keep the servers open. The irony is that Guild Wars 2's community is trying to stop ArenaNet from destroying something with so much potential, but either through lack of attention or lack of staffing, they aren't able to fix the right things efficiently. (I know I've deviated from the main point, but it's important to get it out there with a new, buggy and largely underwhelming release.)

    It's fine for settings to be re-done, but it's a setting that's over-done. We're collecting a spectral army to fight an immense evil, and banish them from the realm of the living. It's a quick fix, with no trials in the way, because it's the only way to fight and defeat Joko. We literally ask them to help and they say: 'Yah, gucci, let's go!' And then, we're meant to portal off to fight him. (Which no one can do at the moment, SoonTM.) But the main issue is actually the question you've asked to me...

    'Why would it have to be original?'

    This is a problem. Every game should strive to have an original storyline. Yah, you can borrow aspects from other things, it'd be impossible not to. However, you shouldn't rip entire story points, identically from another piece of media, and expect people to not notice. The ghost army is, dialogue-excluded, ripped off from Lord of the Rings: Return of the King. And I might be wrong in the approach, but if the Primeval Army is the primary reason as to why we defeat Joko, it'll be a carbon copy. Though, I don't want Joko to die, because he hasn't been developed. Though, I guarantee that he's going to die today, or be banished from the storyline.

    Question: How are you, and you alone, the arbiter of "what the community actually wants?"

    Because I'm very active in this community, and from what I've seen, you're in the minority on this. General consensus on Reddit, on Tumblr and within the game itself (frankly, everywhere but the main forums) is pretty positive on Path of Fire, occasional storytelling blunders aside. I've seen a lot of very passionate critics praise the direction the game's taken, just months after taking them to task for the writing problems in Season 3. As far as community opinion goes, it's a far cry from the dark days of the Scarlet arc.

    Your opinion is your opinion and I'm sure there plenty of people who agree with it. Heck, I can certainly agree with parts of it, even if I don't agree with the main point. But for better or worse, Arenanet IS listening to us. You just don't like the ideas they're listening to.

    Honestly the guy is right - he hits the nail right on the head. The only reason you're not seeing more posts like these is that people who feel this way have seen the "silly tone" has stuck for years and have stopped complaining/posting about it.
    I really dislike the dissonance between the setting and theme of the game and the "hello kitty adventure" dialogue and atmosphere in the LS. It's just such a shame.
    Your "general consensus" is just sampling the areas of the community that agree with you while ignoring the others.

    The problem is I'm wondering more and more "is this a game for me anymore?".

  • GreyWolf.8670GreyWolf.8670 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2018

    Wouldn't know if it's good or not. Got disconnected in Forwarned chapter and am now stuck in limbo failing to load Desert Highlands. I guess the bug boss is good. :(

    In fact, none of my characters will zone in no matter where they are so I cannot play at all.

  • Harper.4173Harper.4173 Member ✭✭✭

    @DorDor.8617 said:

    @Twyn.7320 said:

    @DorDor.8617 said:

    @Twyn.7320 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Twyn.7320 said:
    I'm looking forward to effectively like playing Lord of the Guild Wars 2: Return of the King. Like, it's not original or plausible so far, so I hope it gets better later on!

    Would you mind going into detail?

    What exactly is not plausible? And why would it have to be original? The characters in the story are pretty original no? Not like settings can only ever be done once

    Generally, the Scarab Plague is an airborne disease, so if Amnoon isn't crippled by a mass outbreak, it's a bit silly. Additionally, Gorrik wandering around as a test subject is equally as dumb, and no one challenges the concept. They're so passive to the idea of letting an Asura wander around despite being contaminated. Even if it 'doesn't affect anything other than Humans', it could still spread to Humans by just being around Gorrik.

    The characters are effectively stereotypes, and are in real need of character development that's well-written. I hope Braham actually gets treatment this time, instead of being drowned out by Taimi because 'reasons'. It's been said multiple times by multiple people, all of which are being objective, but Guild Wars 2 needs to choose its story tone. Is it trying to be a Disney-type adventure, or is it trying to be more mature? If it's a Disney-type adventure, spend more time with Taimi and Gorrik. If it's a mature story, spend more time with characters like Rytlock, Kasmeer and Braham. Of course, it's my subjective opinion as to which characters fit a more mature tone, but Guild Wars 2 stands out as being a bit too... 'no consequences, big actions'. The obvious answer to all of this is: 'Stop playing if you're so negative about it.' However, it doesn't fix anything. There are problems with Guild Wars 2 right now, the most important being a lack of communication and a lack of understanding of what the community actually wants. If Guild Wars 2's community declined until only blindly optimistic people remained, it wouldn't be financially viable to keep the servers open. The irony is that Guild Wars 2's community is trying to stop ArenaNet from destroying something with so much potential, but either through lack of attention or lack of staffing, they aren't able to fix the right things efficiently. (I know I've deviated from the main point, but it's important to get it out there with a new, buggy and largely underwhelming release.)

    It's fine for settings to be re-done, but it's a setting that's over-done. We're collecting a spectral army to fight an immense evil, and banish them from the realm of the living. It's a quick fix, with no trials in the way, because it's the only way to fight and defeat Joko. We literally ask them to help and they say: 'Yah, gucci, let's go!' And then, we're meant to portal off to fight him. (Which no one can do at the moment, SoonTM.) But the main issue is actually the question you've asked to me...

    'Why would it have to be original?'

    This is a problem. Every game should strive to have an original storyline. Yah, you can borrow aspects from other things, it'd be impossible not to. However, you shouldn't rip entire story points, identically from another piece of media, and expect people to not notice. The ghost army is, dialogue-excluded, ripped off from Lord of the Rings: Return of the King. And I might be wrong in the approach, but if the Primeval Army is the primary reason as to why we defeat Joko, it'll be a carbon copy. Though, I don't want Joko to die, because he hasn't been developed. Though, I guarantee that he's going to die today, or be banished from the storyline.

    Question: How are you, and you alone, the arbiter of "what the community actually wants?"

    Because I'm very active in this community, and from what I've seen, you're in the minority on this. General consensus on Reddit, on Tumblr and within the game itself (frankly, everywhere but the main forums) is pretty positive on Path of Fire, occasional storytelling blunders aside. I've seen a lot of very passionate critics praise the direction the game's taken, just months after taking them to task for the writing problems in Season 3. As far as community opinion goes, it's a far cry from the dark days of the Scarlet arc.

    Your opinion is your opinion and I'm sure there plenty of people who agree with it. Heck, I can certainly agree with parts of it, even if I don't agree with the main point. But for better or worse, Arenanet IS listening to us. You just don't like the ideas they're listening to.

    I haven't claimed to be the sole arbiter of 'what the community actually wants'. However, a simple flick through the forums shows that notoriously, the community desires things and hardly get them. The community wants raiding information, and they've been unable to gain it. The community wants balancing in PvP, but the correct balancing, and it's never arrived in full force, and trashed specs that didn't need to be trashed in the first place. Sections of the community desire a particular story focus, and regardless of where you stand on the issue, it objectively hasn't changed since Living World Season 3. The community wants more general communication on any releases or issues, but still, Anet's provided nothing to remove the painful desire.

    I'm equally active in this community, and from what I've seen, I'm in a clear majority. If the general consensus of everywhere APART from the main game's forums is positive, but the game's forums are wholly negative and controversial, wouldn't it be safer to say that it's split down the middle? Naturally, official game forums make up the 'majority of accounts' for that game. However, it's a stab in the dark, and without actual figures, I can't say it's a definite and neither should you. Additionally, players of Guild Wars 2 (EU) regularly complain in-game of a lack of content to do, at least from my experience. EU players are usually more cynical, however, from experience.

    The problem with comparing the community with the basis of 'the dark days of the Scarlet arc' is that this was 4 years ago. Naturally, Guild Wars 2 has progressed since then into a completely different experience. However, some of those complaints are still current. In the villain department, I've seen many players regularly complain about the lack of a compelling antagonist that they feel is both realistic and adheres to a degree of pathos, which is important for any narrative paradigm. If we don't feel for the villain's actions, or understand why they've acted in a particular way that seems plausible, backed with snazzy dialogue, villainy is pointless. This is a problem that was common in 2014, and is still common in 2018. If the same issue exists in a four-year time span, there's a clear problem. It's the same with balancing, but I'm not going to go into that aspect because other people who know 'numbers and percentiles' can do it far better than I can!

    The thing that I need to ask you is: Can you give me a number of examples/instances where Anet has listened and implemented a requested change over a long-term, since the start of Living World Season 3? If Anet produces a good change, I step back, smile and nod. But I'm yet to see a change that actually feels worthwhile and is overtly different. The only change is 'Mounts', IMO. They're still developing for them, and in this case, I smiled and nodded in acceptance. Provide at least four others.

    Sure I can. My first example is Living World Season 3. The whole concept.

    After Heart of Thorns, there were a ton of complaints about the content droughts the expansion caused. There were complaints about how small and unsubstantial Season 2 episodes ended up being. And there were especially complaints about the direction of the story, and how it was ignoring certain storylines that fans desperately wanted to see play out.

    Arenanet responded with nothing short of a complete, comprehensive overhaul of their entire company structure. They established multiple Living World teams, each capable of delivering an episode with a full map's worth of content. They created a system of staggered releases that allowed Episodes to be released in a tight, closely-followed schedule. And they deliberately went for storylines tailor-made to appease old-guard fans: the White Mantle, Livia, the fate of Saul D'Alessio and the reappearance of the Gods. It was created to be a crowd-pleaser, a means to win back the trust of the people, and though it didn't always succeed in that, it does show us the mindset Arenanet's been in since the failure of HoT.

    Of course, Season 3 had plenty of criticism as well, and the Path of Fire devs addressed those criticisms when it was their turn for a release. There were complaints about Season 3's bloated cast and scattered plotting, so they went out of their way to tell a more focused story with a smaller cast of characters. Season 4 continued that trend, taking us back to a much-requested location, Istan, and giving Braham some much-needed development after what they did with him in Season 3. Now, Episode 3 is bringing us Gandara (another heavily requested setting) and Roller Beetles (a mount I've seen a ton of people clamoring for).

    They've been a bit less proactive on the PvP/WvW side of things, but one cannot overestimate the impact the overhaul of Ranked play had on the PvP scene. The addition of Seasons, Automated Tournaments, the larger map pool and even that little free-for-all Murder Arena in the Heart of the Mists were all stuff the PvP community requested and received. Also, have you heard about those changes coming to World vs World in the not-too-distant future? That whole Guild Alliance system? I've heard requests for exactly that sort of thing since I first joined the community. It's not in the game yet, but it's coming, so I figure it makes the list, too.

    I understand how you came to the conclusion that Arenanet doesn't listen. You get your information from the forums, the place our entire community goes to vent where they know the devs will hear them. This is a big, giant complaint box. But that kind of focused negativity isn't a fair impression. Arenanet is one of the most transparent game developers I've ever seen. It's why I'm willing to cut them so much slack when they do screw up. They earned my respect.

    The reappearance of the Gods - the same Gods they did away with really quickly much to the joy of all the old fans? I sure feel pleased. I'd have preferred if they'd left the Gods alone. Writing them out of the story is not an improvement.
    "They've been a bit less proactive on PvP and WvW" is your nice way of saying they've nearly destroyed the modes by ignoring them?
    I get that you're a fan of Anet - I was one too once - but I've cut so much slack I don't have any left. I've been here since the game's release cutting nothing but slack and running mostly on promises and half-delivered things.( Hell - we STILL don't have the full set of legendary weapons we were promised with HoT - and whatever happened with "New legendaries and new legendary types in 2014?" - see some of us still remember these things - slack has been cut). They lost my respect.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    horrible: Due to bugs + excessive puzzles, this is take me long to finish than the entire POF history on first time!!

    "It's a testament to the folly of the humans and their gods. They say Arah was sacred, but all I see is one big dragon nest."(Rytlock Brimstone)

  • Please fix the disconnection error! I keep getting a network error 1083 and I can't log in to the game at all! Since last night! It's getting very annoying already.

  • brenda.9723brenda.9723 Member ✭✭✭

    the stealth-mode skills do not work properly. I had a few times that they just did not function when I used the skill. It is a great idea, but the game doenst feel fair, it punished me with losing all the achievements-crowns at the end (which I almost had) and I got all kinds of bosses on the map :'( . And this happend because my stealth-mode skills simpely failed to work. I hope you will fix this; the instance is very long (certainly when u go for the achievements), so it is not nice when you are almost done and then the game does not propely function.

    The skills are bugged; sometimes in stealth mode you have your normal skillbar. And sometimes the stealth skills do not work.

  • Miss Lana.5276Miss Lana.5276 Member ✭✭✭

    I got to the gate in Be My Guest, where I was immediately kicked after the cutscene. I then tried logging back in afterwards. Couldn't log in on ANY toon for the next ten minutes.

    Had the same thing happen just now, but I wasn't even in the new area (I was at Highjump Ranch), and hadn't bothered to continue the story from where I was kicked. I'm hearing the same reports from other people in discord having these issues.

    Seriously, I'd prefer you guys took another few weeks - or even months - to make sure the release was going to be smooth, rather than giving us this pile of buggy rubbish.

    Disagreement =/= "negativity"
    Criticism =/= "hate"

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @brenda.9723 said:
    the stealth-mode skills do not work properly. I had a few times that they just did not function when I used the skill. It is a great idea, but the game doenst feel fair, it punished me with losing all the achievements-crowns at the end (which I almost had) and I got all kinds of bosses on the map :'( . And this happend because my stealth-mode skills simpely failed to work. I hope you will fix this; the instance is very long (certainly when u go for the achievements), so it is not nice when you are almost done and then the game does not propely function.

    The skills are bugged; sometimes in stealth mode you have your normal skillbar. And sometimes the stealth skills do not work.

    I've done the instance MANY times and didn't encounter any issues. Maybe you accidentally acviated the special action and got the normal weapons again? And keep in mind that they do detect you through stealth regardless if you move or if you are close to the siege weapons. The 2 only really works on targets you used the 1 on etc.

    Smugly chuckling forever.
    My sentence doesn't make sense? Well, I probably forgot to write half of it before posting.

  • Chorne.8195Chorne.8195 Member ✭✭✭

    I keep crashing at cutscenes in the final instance so I'm becoming extremely frustrated. I got all the way to the instance where you storm Joko's doors with no connection issues when suddenly bam, I was kicked. I couldn't relog either so I think it may have just been a problem with my wifi connection? I'm not sure.

    I haven't gotten the roller beetle yet but I honestly am totally cool with the collection.

    The effects and cutscenes I have seen were pretty great. The story has been enjoyable so far. I especially enjoyed the stealth instance.

  • Rauderi.8706Rauderi.8706 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tails.9372 said:
    This episode also shows that you guys haven't learned anything from your past mistakes.

    That's the impression I'm getting. I feel like jumping puzzle and combat designers especially just aren't listening.
    Poor conveyance.
    Tight, enclosed areas that the camera can't get past.
    The same old "punishment" style combat. (Though the opening fight with the lesser bullet-heck power was hilarious on Spellbreaker: "Hit me!" ..all the little black dots miss.)

    I'll know more as I get to exploring the zone, but seeing someone highlight a closed off area dependent on a meta is also really disappointing.

    Many alts! Handle it!

    "A condescending answer might as well not be an answer at all."
    -Eloc Freidon.5692

  • Harper.4173Harper.4173 Member ✭✭✭

    @Miss Lana.5276 said:
    I got to the gate in Be My Guest, where I was immediately kicked after the cutscene. I then tried logging back in afterwards. Couldn't log in on ANY toon for the next ten minutes.

    Had the same thing happen just now, but I wasn't even in the new area (I was at Highjump Ranch), and hadn't bothered to continue the story from where I was kicked. I'm hearing the same reports from other people in discord having these issues.

    Seriously, I'd prefer you guys took another few weeks - or even months - to make sure the release was going to be smooth, rather than giving us this pile of buggy rubbish.

    Great - same issue here.
    You know - a poster earlier said to cut Anet some slack - which is exactly what I did.
    Yesterday - on patch day - I completely ignored the new content because I realized there might be issues/bugs that need to be fixed/ironed out. I didn't complain that a released episode is not working on release day - even though they're the ones who released it AND approved it for release. I just waited. Today - I'm met with the same issue as Miss Lana above.

    Is it too much to ask that the game works from the devs? I mean - I didn't pick your release date - you did. I waited too - when am I supposed to play the new content? Should I wait a week next time?

  • briggah.7910briggah.7910 Member ✭✭

    a big 0 out of 10 for me. 24 hours have passed and I still can't complete the story due to disconnections.

  • Sorry big slim 1 from me, had looked forward to the new season Ep. But, still can't finish the story due to DC's. Always at the same place, 'Be My guest' and defending 'Canach'

  • ZeftheWicked.3076ZeftheWicked.3076 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2018

    In no way or form do these maps hold a candle to HoT living story maps.
    They feel like just more of core PoF maps without new feel and new map mechanics.

    HoT living maps dared to have their own identity and new fun mechanics!
    Draconis Mons Spider-man mode will not be soon forgotten! And others have fun stuff too!

    None of them felt like extra square miles of HoT core map terrain. Each had their own identity
    Also they weren't afraid to have real verticality with lotsa hidden spots or at least places to explore.

    So far this map feels like i could cut out a hefty portion of it, place it outside Amnoon instead of original content, and none would be the wiser...

  • Cregath.7628Cregath.7628 Member ✭✭✭

    To be short, this release was horrible. Is the amount of content not enough? No, it's enough. Is it too weak or too strong? No, it's alright.
    But there are numerous problems. First, the disconnects and crashes are way more frequent than during earlier releases. It's not really something to be blamed on the regular story crashes or server overload and stuff. There are definitely crashes resulting from the story script in there too. This is one of the biggest problems some people have. Some crashes were expected, but this is going overboard.
    Another pretty big problem is with the rewards in the Domain of Kourna. This is just ridiculously bad. Enemies tied to event have no drop or experience rewards at all. Take the Cannon reprogramming for example. You spend minutes defending the Cannon killing mobs. But you get nothing out of the mobs themselves other than the event end reward, which is not much at all in any aspect. Even killing Champions doesn't reward a Champion bag. Overall it just doesn't worth it to do events once you have your Shards from each of them for the day and completed the associated achievement. You are better off killing the quickly respawning monsters anywhere else on the map with the help of the just as numerous friendly NPCs together. This is just, no.
    A personal issue of mine is with the achievements that have the "[FTT xxx]" in their name. Simply because of the '[' and ']' it made me feel like the tag in front was unintentionally left in by accident when everything else is pointing at that it wasn't. It is confusing for me a bit because every other instance of Inquest or Asura tags for Turrets and Robots didn't have those symbols. Additionally, some of the story achievements don't really tell you anything, which would be fine if there were hints. For example, I have no idea how I should "disorient" 25 awakened with the teleport. I tried a lot of things. Either it is bugged or there are just no hints for it. Canach also seemed to be a bit too happy to ruin the Glory Hog achievement. As he is planting bombs in locations where I already detonated the trebs or barricades (some of which seem to stay there even after getting the credit for detonating it).
    Lastly a story related issue I had is with how conveniently the Human Commander is "immune" to the Scarab Plague (let's ignore the fact that the Scarabs don't eat anyone else for some reason), because he/she died before and everyone is just alright with it, not wondering for even a second about why is that the case. Is the Commander at this point and "undead"? Something more? Noone asked this question, though I didn't get to finish the story, because of the disconnect issues.

    Now that the issues are out of the way: The events in Kourna are alright, but nothing really stands out. This is party, because they lack the variety in theme of Sandswept Isles, but also lack the focus that Dragon's Stand or Verdant Brink has. I wasn't able to finish the Map Completion, but I blame that one me being lazy to get the Beetle yet, so eh. The Heart events in my eyes were a step up though.
    Exploration in the zone is not really great. It feels barren, but not because the Awakened and Joko made it so. There is simply not much to see aside from 2 or 3 spots. I didn't really feel like I was exploring, rather, it felt like I was doing a checklist.
    The story instances I saw so far were interesting on the other hand. The stealth part was relatively fun (if only the achievements worked), the Joko statues are hilarious and even the introdutory instance was fun to experience. But that alone does not redeem the story of it's gigantic screaming plotholes.

    I don't think I can add anything else for now. tldr: rewards are not enough during events, plotholes, disconnects are frustrating, mediocre zone content.
    I didn't get around to doing the new Fractal yet, but I'm hoping that it's good. The worst point I can bring up though is that certain announcement about the delay for the Episode's release, which mentioned that it's for a better experience or something. Makes me wonder what the normal experience is if thise is the "better" one.

    Praise Joko!

  • I have to ecco the complaints about the collection for the new mount. I get ANet wants to keep old content relivant, but this, as Lord Farron said, "You gave me 'busy' work".
    That is all the collection is. Busy work. No cool quests or anything like that. Just a time gated fetch quest. I'm starting to feel like ANet don't want us to have nice things, and want to make everything "cool" painfully unfun to get. Like the second gen legendary weapons. I remember when game where made to be fun. Not work.

  • kappa.2036kappa.2036 Member ✭✭✭

    I keep getting dc's while doing the living story, then i log in again, select the character and...well, i can't reconnect to the map. Still trying from yesterday lol.

  • Kiza.5630Kiza.5630 Member ✭✭✭

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Beetle_Feed

    This is honestly one of the worst collections ever. 5 mio ppl throwing aoe at spawn locations. Junundu never dropping anything can't even get credit for the kill. In short: it's an extremely irritating waiting and wasting time thing. I won't bother with it anymore until the worst "train" has passed.

    Last mission crashes for me all the time, but... I loved what you did with Joko in the first one. He became a hilarious villain and not just the run of the mill evil guy. The new map seems fun so far for casual play. I'm thankful that there isn't a Palawaland No 2. Enjoyed playing on it so far, even the bugged first day was fun. Griffon waiting squad and all.

    One thing I would like though: make the instances shorter. The story part with Canach and the assault was awesome, but could've been split into two. I find them too long.

  • I've only completed the instances needed to get to the new map, and felt that the story writing got really lazy so far.
    Depends on your dialogue choice, the Amnoon judge said the only asura they've seen were inquest, but the inquest were first found in Istan, in their secret base. Also there are good asura with the Priory in Elon riverland. There are even fully voice acted dialogue showing elonian kid meeting an asura for the first time.
    Secondly, the scarab plague only affecting human is interesting. But then the commander(if human) just conveniently won't get infected because he/she had died before?! How?
    Then you get your ghost army in no time. Where were the army when we first visited the tomb of the primeval king? The queens and kings just chose to defend themselves last time?
    And the op seeds of wall, a rift that ports our entire army to Kourna....
    Everything is so effortless and convenient that it almost felt rushed.

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