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Feedback: Official Living World Season 4 Episode 3 Feedback [MANY SPOILERS]



  • @zealex.9410 said:
    U unlock the beetle collection after like the second story instance, relax... Getting the mount after u unlock the collection will take you a day max.

    I dont want to be handed stuff right off the start.

    1. I'm not sure why you chose to quote my entire post for just the Beetle stuff.
    2. I never said I want the Beetle to just be handed to me. There's clearly a middle ground between the collection being locked behind two instances before you can even start it (and then the collection itself requires you to do a lot in Kourna, including at least 1 bounty and the meta, not to metnion a lot of "Tag to complete" items), and just blatantly giving the mount to people. The obvious solution to me would've been to allow people to train the masteries before they unlocked the Beetle, instead of having to get the Beetle before the masteries can be trained.
  • notebene.3190notebene.3190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm only on 'Guns, Germs and Steal' myself, but got my beetle, did the Tyrian medal line, just little more than half on the Gandaran medal line, picking away at a few story steps and doing some hearts and meta and unlocking crazy amounts of achievements to work on.

    I'm pretty excited. I think I'm going to be here for awhile. Hopefully some other souls stick around too.

    In the event I don't get a chance, thank you all for the company and help when I needed it from time to time.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭


    • Joko
    • Ka-Braham
    • Beetle


    • Future dearth of Joko
    • Forearmed was overlong for a stealth mission

    • Kourna is meh.
  • Please fix the various places you can get stuck in when you explore around Dajibi Hollows - not wanting to use a guide to get the mastery point there I explored options to reach it from above, and have so far gotten stuck twice in caves that looked like a possible entry routes (and no, it's not the same one).
    Oh, and is intentional that the Awakened Windcallers and Earthstalkers don't have any abilites listed when you target them? This map feels really unfinished :(

  • I was very disapointed in the meta... you take a historical location like the Moon Fortress, which we could raid completely in GW1, i mean like litterally, he had to assualt and fight our way through the entire fortress... and then recycle it in GW2, but only let us explore about 25% of it at the most... this is extremely underwhelming, you could have done so so soooooo much more with it. I was expecting to have to fight our way through all the streets and plaza, facing two or three champion mordant crescent generals as we fight our way in. This could have been so epic. Wheres the exploration, the challenge, the reward... i mean seriously, the loot is sooooo underwhelming, we go in there, kill a boss, smash a few experiments and were done... like... thats it?!?!? You have a place with so much lore and potential, and just waste it. This fortress could have given us truely epic fights, but now, i doubt anyone will revist it after they get their mount and beetle.

  • Purgatori.3645Purgatori.3645 Member ✭✭✭

    The map is great. I really like when you guys give us a little bit of everything :D Loved the underwater cave it is beautiful. I also really enjoy the Petey collection and finished it in about 2.5 hours. Was nice to just check off the items and not a gold sink. He's adorable and I love him :D No major issues except one major DC that booted my kitten all the way to Desert Highlands of all places and then to log in screen but that was launch day and has been smooth playing since. Great story guys! Was worth the wait <3

    When life knocks you down ... Rollover and look at the Stars

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2018

    Beetle needs revision. It -must- start with full endurance. and give players more control on the speed. Only burn endurance for superspeed while you hold down space.

    Tricks is completely and utterly useless. Way too easy to loose momentum from hitting snags in the world, and then you have to wait 10 seconds before you can speed up again.

  • Ignoring the initial problems at launch, there are several problems that this episode ran into but it also succeeded in a few ways as well and I'll touch on both.

    The Good:
    - THE MOUNT The design of the mount was done very well overall, in terms of how the mount feels to ride around and the physics programmed behind it, it feels more like throwing yourself around as opposed to being on a set track going in the forward direction, which is great and gives a strong sense of weight.

    • THE STORY The Story was pretty good overall, it was engaging and makes me eager to see what happens next.
      -THE CINEMATICS The cinematics stepped up their game! It looks like arenanet is starting to dabble in more motion capture practices. While they don't seem to be very good at it yet, I hope they keep at it and it improves as they do more, which is exciting.

    - THE MAP The map was beautiful and visually appealing, much of it was cleverly designed around the rolling beetle mount, allowing multiple opportunities to launch off of things or coast along smooth surfaces and the like.

    Things that could have been improved: (Any criticisms are made out of love for the game and the hope that I can help improve the game in some way)

    • ACQUIRING THE MOUNT Leading up to the release of the episode, a lot of excitement and hype was create at the mention of a new mount. This left many players (including myself) to be counting the days until release so they can ride this mount. As a result, many players began rushing the collection for the mount before bothering with the story. This causes players to uncover the new map via scouring for the collection items via a guide rather than discovering it for themselves or via the story. A better solution to this would be either an easier collection, or giving the mount to the player as they completed the story.
      -THE COLLECTION The collection itself came off as infuriating to a lot of players because it forced them to play certain old events. While it's good to encourage players to re-engage with old content, many of these events only spawn every so often (up to 2 hours). This forced many players to wait when they just wanted to ride the mount. Not to say a collection for the mount is a bad idea. It worked very well with the Griffon, however the big difference is that the griffon was a secret mount, therefore no one knew about it going into the expansion. This made the challenge of getting the Griffon a very challenging but rewarding experience.

    • THE META EVENT The meta event in the Domain of Kourna was overall disappointing. Leading up to the event was perfectly fine between having to collect spare parts and the cannon events, but the momentum that has been building up toward these is suddenly lost with a short assault. The actual meta event is very short only allowing entrance to the city from one access point (despite the multiple bridges) ending with an unsatisfying golem fight. Looking at the map, it looks like there was perfect opportunity to create a multiple entry assault from each bridge in the style of the Silverwastes meta. The map was made in such a way that it appear as if it was designed for this purpose. This part makes me wonder if something happened within Anet that forced them to stop working on the event and oversimplify it? In any case, a huge missed opportunity.

    • BOOST AND BREAKABLE WALLS While I understand why Anet had the beetle to start with no endurance it is quite frustrating to mount up and then be forced to wait 10 whole seconds before you can really go anywhere, at that point, most are better off just using the raptor to get to where they want to go. At the same time, you can't just give the mount so much power that it renders the other mounts obsolete. A good compromise would be to have the mount start at either half or 70% endurance (3-5 second wait on initial mount) This would stop players from having to wait forever just to boost but would also let the other mounts keep their value. As it stands now, the wait is very frustrating for players, especially since you need to wait for that boost in order to use the wall break ability. This ends up with players waiting 10 seconds in front of the wall in order to break it. Alternatively, it would have been much better to attach the wall break to the attack ability. This way, a player can break a wall immediately after mounting. In terms of the walls themselves, they seem to only be a few scattered throughout the map, and are only useful for map completion points of interest or mastery points but otherwise have no real use, leaving it to feel like a waste of a mastery.

    Thanks for reading my opinion on the episode! I hope that Anet uses at least some of this feedback to improve their games for the better!

    Praise Joko

  • The Ace.9105The Ace.9105 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2018

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:
    So, my take on this episode:

    1. Technically, it was incredibly bad. It was delayed by one month (remember that E2 already shipped a week too late) and then we get such a bug fiesta with ridiculous server issues. Where exactly did that month go?
    2. The story, in total, was mediocre at best. A bunch of plot holes (e.g. how did a human commander suddenly know (why) he's immune to the scarab plague when there's no such hint before?) and quite some stuff that didn't make sense. There was no reason for only Braham and the commander to go into the fortress. Was that a cheap way to get closer to Braham again after he's been taken so much flak (rightfully) in all the episodes since HoT? Not to mention the ridiculous ease with which we pop up a base right inside the heart of enemy territory. Portal or not, that doesn't work. And the worst part was Joko's end. The staging wasn't bad, but it happens way too early in the overall story line. The fault may have originated in E2, which set up the scarab plague as doomsday scenario, but these constant switches of the main villain become annoying.
    3. Gameplay of the story missions isn't really better. The trap sections are just annoying, Joko's way too repetitive, and the first and second mission contain nothing that's exciting. I hope the open map is better, though the other posts in this thread don't sound promising.
    4. And now, the beetle. I'm still in the first collection step, but it's just bad. The collection makes no sense and it is boring. Was that kind of kitten really necessary?
    5. The only saving grace of this episode is the new fractal. Beautiful design, the bosses feel rather good and the lack of a CM isn't such a bad thing.

    Overall, this episode is a disappointment apart from the fractal. Most S3 episodes and the other two S4 episodes have been much, much better.

    Don't forget the last story mission "epic" fight at the front gate where the actual fighting was mainly between untargetable allies and enemies inside a dust cloud. Pretty lazy design for "fight your way to the gate". I also heard that the new fractal didn't have new designs and just recycled old models and textures.

  • For me this was one of the best episodes of all the seasons, certainly the best one in season 4 this far. The story was very good, and contrary to what many users say in the Lore section of the forums, I found the ending quite satisfying and amusing (although I think Joko's story arc could've used just a bit more buildup - like the awakened assasins mechanic talked about in the most recent guild chat). I've always felt that Joko was just a side villian and mostly comic relief - I get that it's a prominent GW1 character and people are upset about the way he was handled in this release, but aside from his possible origin story I don't find anything of interest that could've justified further LW episodes centered around him (although his dialogue in the ending cutscene and the message found in the open world after the instance were intriguing). And speaking of cutscenes - this was just the best thing in this episode! Please ANet, keep this up, it adds soo much weight to the story!

    Aside from that, I also really enjoyed the mechanics in all of the instances - especially the stealth in the second one (bug stomping is also quite fun). Haven't yet explored the whole map or gotten the beetle mount, so I can't say too much about that. All in all I can't wait to see where the story goes next (to be honest I'm counting on a map that is devoid of awakened :D)

    Keep up the good work!

  • rapthorne.7345rapthorne.7345 Member ✭✭✭

    I feel like this arc went way too fast. You go from moving an entire army across the world to aurene eating Joko alive in the space of an hour or so.

    Also, beetle needs more dye channels, please. Love the way the beetle dyes, but the saddle/seat/etc really clashes with my character's aesthetic

    Rapthorne Deathbane: Scourge of the Northern Shiverpeaks.
    Always happy to lend a hand, pm me here or in game with questions

  • Askarema.3405Askarema.3405 Member
    edited June 30, 2018

    I've been playing for a really long time even if I don't really talk on the forums, and when I saw that there was a feedback thread for this living story I decided I needed to look at it, and maybe throw in my planty thoughts on the subject. So...

    I was a fan of the trial, personally, but I also took every single aggressive option that I could. My commander was tired of everyone's stuff constantly, and just wanted to be on their way to ~save the world~ I loved that Gorrik is still very obviously Inquest, even if he's on our side now, and Blish is quickly becoming one of my favourite smols. I really liked it when Joko threw out "this is what you get for siding this town with those Sunspears," the acknowledgment of my previous actions in the story made me really feel like they still had some weight.

    I didn't mind how we recuited the Primeval Kings, honestly. We've dealt with them in the past, and I wrote off their initial hesitance more as just that, hesitance. I quite liked the stealth instance, and I appreciated that it saved my progress in completing an earlier part of the instance when I managed to teleport myself into a rock and had to reload in order to fix it. Judging by the feedback that I read, telegraphing that the game has saved your progress in the step better might have been appreciated. Also, I just gotta say, teleporting around and staying invisible forever made me feel more like I was Caithe than playing as Caithe ever did.

    I really like the way you've refined the "renown hearts as a part of the story" through the episodes. Having us simply do some relevant tasks rather than completing the heart, and then allowing us to complete the heart if we wanted, has definitely been my favourite iteration on this idea. Especially when I finished a renown heart and got a mail in my inventory the way I used to in the wayback machine and found that a small girl had made me cakes.

    I liked how set up the infiltration into the fortress was. I loved everything about Joko, every second of every line was brilliant to me. When my character was like "nah man he's dead" and I was like "NO HE'S ALIVE BUT OK YOU THINK THAT", and the PAYOFF for having my character be a dumb overconfident protagonist was AMAZING. THAT was what powerlessness I wanted Mordremoth to give me, THAT was the level of reflection on my actions I wanted PoF to give me, I wanted my character to try talking to Joko about how 'well if you know so much could you help me fix it?'

    And then Aurene showed up from nowhere and ate him. As Joko said at the beginning of the story, that's cheating. I felt robbed, like all the build up you'd been leading me through was pointless, like the promises you'd made had no meaning. I wasn't as mad as when we pressed f to kill Lazarus, but that's honestly in part because I still haven't really started believing that Joko is actually dead. He came out of the mists once, why not twice?

    One of my friends in my guild, I think, said it best. This episode was so close to being great that it hurts.

  • It seems like GW2 villains get killed off too early without enough development nor room for them to make a shocking return in stories down the road. Some villains are fantastic because they have a long history with there rivals like Magneto, Loki, Joker etc. I would love to see some really fleshed out villains that aren't just one and done. Am I alone on this?

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 30, 2018

    Here is some feedback on the Field Tech Turret system.

    First of giving players the ability to deploy a turret sounds awesome, that being said the implementation is absolute horrible. You guys are still refusing to learn how to make engaging content now do you? It suffers from the same basic problems these one time use weapons and the sunspear summons suffer from and more, but to name the main problems:

    • they're basically committing suicide

    • you can only use them in Kourna

    • they require "consumables"

    Like what the heck A-Net, who thought any of this was a good idea? Why is there a need for them to self destruct when they're basically ohko by upscaled elite mobs? Why restricting their usage to Kourna when they would be much more useful in other maps? I can understand them not being available in PvP but that's about it, you guys do realise that every boss worth killing (be it in fractals, OW or raids) would kill them pretty much instantly thanks to all the AOE spam, right? So what's the big problem here? And finally what's up these upgrade costs, you guys do realise that this pretty much kills it even if you would solve the other issues, right? No one is going to torture himself by farming trash mobs in order to use an immobile gimmik with no offensive presence. If I wanted to have something to distract the mobs with I would swap out my scholar runes for oger ones (at least that thing is mobile).

    If you really want to save the "system" here's what you should do:

    1. turn it into a gizmo given to players after the completion of the achievement chain

    2. the gizmo should deploy a basic turret which gains exp like a nomal player would (but of course with its own exp tables)

    3. the player should be able to upgrade the turret based on its level

    4. the turret shoud have an infinite duration (with no self damage) and go on cooldown once it's destroyed (the cooldown shouldn't be longer than two minutes), alternatively the player should be able to dismantle his turret if he wants to move it, in this case the turret shouldn't go on cooldown

    5. you prohibit the usage in WvW and sPvP

    ^ done, this is an example of how you turn it into something people are actually willing to use, a developer said during the most recent Guild Chat that he hasn't seen people actively engage with the system and as it stands right now it's going go stay that way just like how no one cares about the Cannon in a Box and pretty much every one time use weapon found in core Tyria.

  • Aaralyna.3104Aaralyna.3104 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Little suggestion: Kourna only has 1 repair tool at a waypoint (if not in full map). It would be nice if both waypoints have such tool near as those both are res points.

  • after playing the episode and watching the entire video with guild wars 2 living world chat on youtube , i have the feeling of cheap work on the story content , the beetle gameplay experience is one of the greatest,so much greatness from the guys that worked on it....but on the story content,it all felt rushed and cheap, like : let's be done with joko, like in a second we come back from saving the sandswept isles and then we go to war, in 2 seconds we gather the army, and then the siege preparations look AWSOME, especially the mordremlike wall made by canach....and then bam, kitten fight, sorry for maybe too honest opinion,but the final chapter is actually really cheap, too less content for such great expectations from such a villain , i feel like you really destroyed the potential of that fortress and of joko ..........feels bad that we didn't even get a great meta at the end.... AGAIN .....

  • Dreamy Lu.3865Dreamy Lu.3865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I have waited that most bugs are fixed before to provide feedback. For now, this area and LS episode are too new to allow me a fully constructed opinion, because there are many things I don't know yet. I am not one who hurry at things to have everything done within the few days after download. I am more of the type who take it easy and go slow to secure having enough things to do for a long while. So, this below is only my first feeling at it.

    I like:

    • That we can save progress in story instance! Thank you so much Anet for this. It should become a standard for the long ones.
    • The passage with - sort of - puzzles to be solved to progress. It makes it a lot more interesting to me and I like that.
    • That the story is fair up to the fight against Joko, and no problem for me that I cannot solo last fight: I called friends in. I am glad of the overall good mix between fair and hard. And the variety of stuff along the path.
    • The Beetle, however with one problem: I get motion sickness when curving. But well, that's not new. I am unfortunately part of the players who have to manage motion sickness at mounting. It does not change that I find it cute and that I like to speed up (on straight lines ;) ). I just regret that it has only one channel dye.

    I was disappointed by:

    • The landscape. One more "almost-all-brown" area. As I am one who likes green, water and snow, of course, it's not nice for me. But it does not come as a surprise. It is a desert. It's normal. I knew it. However, I can hardly wait for a new area happening somewhere else than in a desert.
    • Twisting visual effects: As said above, I suffer motion sickness. Visual twister effects are for me even worse than mounting. For example, I cannot do the meta in Sandswept Isle. I am sick at it within seconds due to the luring in circle around the boss. Due to that, I was strongly hoping that Anet would slow down on using those. But it's back: During the story, one boss is luring in circle again. Fortunately, it did stop pretty fast so that I was able to manage. I worry though: I cross fingers that while discovering more of the area, I will not also discover more of those effects.

    Globally, more positive than negative for me up to now. Thank you Anet. :)

    Leading Team of Equinox Solstice [TIME] / Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    WvW server: Henge of Denravi
    Contact: Dreamy Lu.3865

  • Bish.8627Bish.8627 Member ✭✭✭

    Hey. So I am gonna need you to send the laser achievement my way, as there is no way in hell I am doing it again. Your buggy lasers bounced me back even when they were flickering, so your bad, not mine, send it.

  • casualkenny.9817casualkenny.9817 Member ✭✭✭

    just got the beetle, quite like the handling and the way momentum was brought into it, all the deflecting of off gentler slopes and everything, the speed, the balance with other mounts. cos of the speed and handling, it requires slightly more focus too, for me

    it seems to have great potential for new chars to explore new maps and unlock wps

    liked it

    though perhaps a way to speed up the endurance gain would be good, such as if u go down a slope, which would speed up the endu gain

  • Vinland.9153Vinland.9153 Member
    edited June 30, 2018

    I have to agree with the general sentiment of Joko being under-utilized and wasted potential. I had never personally played Guild Wars, but I was fascinated with the idea of this "tyrant king" that was a lich and was actually running a kingdom with some semblance of success. Joko seemed like an extremely interesting character; one who was in for the long haul and one I was personally hoping we would not kill so soon-- if at all. After meeting him in Guild Wars 2 I immediately went to the Guild Wars wiki to learn more about him.

    I feel like the game overall has a lot of characters presented in this fashion; introduced then quickly killed off, unfortunately in this case it was a character with a rich backstory and a large amount of lore behind them. Even Balthazar and his madness was a disappointing turn for the story to take in my opinion; his death also needless and meaningless ultimately. I worry about the Guild Wars 2 story at large as we seem to be killing off any intelligent or interesting villains immediately for the next big thing.

    I'd have preferred that if anything we'd manage to wear Joko and his armies down enough to force negotiations or something rather than the abrupt upheaval of a centuries old empire.

  • Stalkingwolf.6035Stalkingwolf.6035 Member ✭✭✭

    played new fractal yesterday T2 and T3. Its ok. bit long but fun. but finding 10 chest was not fun.

    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster

  • Lupini.6938Lupini.6938 Member ✭✭

    Despite me sitting there frozen chanting "Yooo-hooo, Aurene! Where arrrrreee youuuuu?" I still jumped and then laughed at the ending. The various character's quips at the end were fun.

    I would like to ask that the "out of bounds" (OOB) areas in the instances get some tweaking. There is no "wait" time between accidentally crossing into the zone and getting the warning and then getting dumped in these new instances. While playing through the first time, I got dumped out a few times. I'm paying attention to the story, to the battles, and not the mini-map.

    For example, as you enter the trial instance, Taimi walks out-of-bounds while talking and walking with you. If one walks with her, you get dumped out. Luckily, this one is early, and didn't waste a lot of time. Still, needs a warning period or just get rid of the first restricted area. The player doesn't need that sort of leashing--it's sort of insulting.

    Also, once in the Domain of Kourna to scout before the forces arrive: we have a large area to explore, but then there are OOB areas that make no sense. While fighting/evading one NPC scouting party, I accidentally "portaled" myself into OOB and got immediately dumped out of the instance--before I had gotten to a checkpoint in the game. This required a lot of repeated play.


  • Keriana.9635Keriana.9635 Member ✭✭✭

    Overall I enjoyed it. Here are my thoughts:


    • Beetle is great
    • Cutscenes and long story segments
    • Joko commenting on a previous story decision
    • Stealth part in the second story mission was fun -- usually I don't like stealth, but I liked it here. Maybe because it was more active with being able to teleport.
    • Canach


    • Map meta was boring. Please bring back HoT-style metas or world bosses. Maybe not for every map, but for a few of the updates.
    • Trap section of the story
    • Getting experience that was wasted as a reward (because I didn't have the beetle at that point) and 0 AP achievements
    • Braham:
      • Not sure why we went alone with him to face Joko. Surely we could have used the rest of our companions as well for the big fight? Or, at least let us decide who to take with us.
      • I also don't like the pc saying how much they want Braham in the group when I wish he would just leave. Maybe that sort of dialogue could be optional (something we pick rather than having the pc say it automatically)
  • Not sure if this the right place to post this if not sorry. I would love to continue the story but I can't as it wont let me find Blish's arm. The night if the update when i got logged in I started the new story i got passed Seized then when it came to Forearmed is Forewarned i got booted out of the game just after Blish's arm went through the portal my game booted me out I didn't manage to get back in with the character I was playing so went of to play another. The next day i got logged in and when i went through the portal the map was fully there and I couldn't see the arm anywhere I've now tried 4 times to go through the portal and every time there is no arm. I'm not going to waste anymore silver to teleport to Lommuld Kraal Waypoint and try for a 5th time. I hope thi scan be sorted somehow as i would really love to do more of the story and get the roller beetle mount.

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭

    I would like to request for the achievements to be handled with a bit more care. Achievement such as the ""Trip the quantum Fantastic" provide no enjoyment. Why repeating it 25 times? I do not know a single person in my cycle that enjoyed this and most just quit doing it. It is a waste of resources to have achievements like these that nobody care about to finish. And every episode seems to have a few of those.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pink Poison.2965 said:
    Not sure if this the right place to post this if not sorry. I would love to continue the story but I can't as it wont let me find Blish's arm. The night if the update when i got logged in I started the new story i got passed Seized then when it came to Forearmed is Forewarned i got booted out of the game just after Blish's arm went through the portal my game booted me out I didn't manage to get back in with the character I was playing so went of to play another. The next day i got logged in and when i went through the portal the map was fully there and I couldn't see the arm anywhere I've now tried 4 times to go through the portal and every time there is no arm. I'm not going to waste anymore silver to teleport to Lommuld Kraal Waypoint and try for a 5th time. I hope thi scan be sorted somehow as i would really love to do more of the story and get the roller beetle mount.

    Quit the story chapter then start it again, stay at the portal in Highlands, wait for it to give you the dialogue again and start the instance. You don't have to find the arm, you get it automatically in the instance.

    I rather choose death.

  • @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

    @PookieDaWombat.6209 said:
    Not reading thread to avoid spoilers. Just wanted to chime in really fast with a small gripe. The Herald. Aside from the worry that Anet is going to turn around and say they are also "E", I really hate that they come across so capable and knowledgeable in their letters to you through core game leveling and when you meet them, they are basically a teenage fangirl. Its kind of obnoxious as a character portrayal.

    Odd, they used to be adult Human males.

    You lost me here. Who used to be adult human males?

    Greck Howlbane - Firebrand
    Sorrow's Furnace For Life

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 30, 2018
  • Blocki.4931 thank you for your help it worked :)

  • Boogiepop Void.6473Boogiepop Void.6473 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 30, 2018

    I'm going to ignore the bugs for now, on the assumption they will be fixed. That being said, please improve the testing environment so this doesn't happen again.

    I very much like the story. Everything that happened there seemed well built up. I do question why we didn't see more pact forces, or anyone from any of the non-kryta states in Core Tyria. Missed a golden opportunity for Olmakan on Legions story. Just in general, given Joko is attacking everyone, we should have seen more than just Kryta responding. I am disappointed that Joko is dead. how he went is perfectly appropriate; he was begging to get torchwicked. It just feels too soon.

    I like the beetle, but oddly it feels more useful in core maps than anywhere else. It's useless in most expansion maps, as they tend to be very vertical (some exceptions being Bitterfrost and Lake Doric). I am concerned, based on past precedents, that the wall break ability is gonna be restricted to the ~5 places in Kourna. Also, the first mastery ability is very lackluster. The first collection to get the beetle is a bit dumb (find 9 things randomly scattered on the map), but the rest is reasonably thematic. However the events in older maps that people are sent to desperately need some updates and optimization.

    Kourna is a map full of wasted potential. The north of the map feels empty and tacked on, with an almost total lack of anything to do there other than get POIs (1 event and 1 griphon race are the only things out there). The hidden pond behind the farm is similarly pointless outside of a POI, a mastery, and a couple achivement you can get in less than a half hour. Gendara is mostly inaccessible. The hearts range from OK (the battle, the shipwreck) to boring (kill stuff around the hylek village) to bad (gather tons of tasteless roots). The farm is particularly egregious as it actually tells you to smash nonexistent statues as a way to advance it. There are also a bunch of little strange nitpicks, like needing to run an event to access Beta Vault, not needing to enter Alpha Vault, the very awkwardly placed beetle wall for the computer core, and the issues with experience and loot not being given by lots of mobs.

    The meta is rather boring, with lackluster and poorly designed rewards, a generic boss, and nothing really interesting happening. The thing is, the entire thing feels incomplete or rushed. The meta very much feels like it was meant to do a 3-lane thing like Silverwastes and was rushed out with only a single lane in a usable, but not finished, state. No place is this more obvious than the west bridge, that ends in a very obviously very quickly copy-pasted blank wall (there are literally visible seams where it connects to the identical wall segment next to it). The fighting going on seems the exact opposite of the well-organized attack shown in the story, with essentially a grand melee going on past the vine wall. There is no sign of the corsair fleet other than the one extremely tiny shipwreck (they were probably supposed to show up later in the meta like the ships in Palawadan). The entire thing needs to be properly redone, with a full meta and proper battle over Gendara, otherwise it's just a massive waste.

    The FFT turrets are a bit crazy. Interesting, but awkward due to how they are handled. The map currency in general is very sparse, especially given how much we need for the collections and for stuff like the turrets. Once again, we have inventory spam, this time in the form of spare parts; this is the same issue we complained about back in Bitterfrost Frontier. The banner is very dinky looking in my opinion; I'm just getting it because I need an ascended back and it will get skin changed immediately. It's nice that the collections send us to events on other maps, but again some desperately need updating or repairs, most notably the Orr temples and the Claw. Also, the cannon events on Kourna are being leaned on too heavily (3 times in one collection?); I once again get the feeling that only 1 part of a 3 part meta was finished and these were copy-pasted into the slots to keep the number of items in the collection the same.

  • Boogiepop Void.6473Boogiepop Void.6473 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2018

    Kourna is a map full of wasted potential. It very much feels rushed and incomplete. I hope that we can get an update to finish it someday.

    The north and east of the map feels empty and tacked on, with an almost total lack of anything to do there other than get POIs. The hidden pond behind the farm is similarly pointless and also the portal to it is very strangely placed. This issue with parts of the map being empty of meaningful, repeatable content is something that was complained about when it first happened in Bitterfrost Frontier, during which, by the way, we also complained about inventory spam, which again appears in the form of parts. There are also a bunch of little strange nitpicks, like needing to run an event to access Beta Vault, not needing to enter Alpha Vault, the very awkwardly placed beetle wall for the computer core, and the issues with experience and loot not being given by lots of mobs. The biggest sin is that Gendara is mostly inaccessible, either in the map itself or during the story instances.

    The most glaringly incomplete element, though, is the meta. It gives lackluster rewards (access to them is also poorly designed, resulting in people begging mesmers for help due to the access key not awarding properly), the final meta boss is generic and uninteresting, and there is nothing story-wise or really at all interesting happening with it. The meta very obviously was meant to be a 3-lane thing like Silverwastes, with us attacking down all 3 bridges and conquering the fortress (the stuff that was happening while we were infiltrating the sewers in the story) and was rushed out with only a single lane in a usable, but not finished, state. No place is this more obvious than the west bridge, that nonsensically ends in a blank wall. There is barely any sign of the corsair fleet other than the one extremely tiny shipwreck; they were probably supposed to show up later in the meta like the ships in Palawadan. The cannon events on Kourna are another indication of this; once again only 1 part of a 3 part meta was finished and these were copy-pasted into the slots to keep the number of items in the Kourna medal collection the same.

    The entire meta needs to be properly redone, with a full and proper battle over Gendara, otherwise it's just a massive waste. Do something with the empty parts of the map too.

  • Pyreo.8517Pyreo.8517 Member ✭✭

    I haven't usually come to leave feedback (although I've felt like I SHOULD, especially when you write stuff that I love), but I'm finally breaking in to say how stellar episode 3 was for me.
    I can see the sense behind complaints on the map design etc, but basically, I just finished the storyline today and I'm so buzzed about it. The writing is excellent. It reminds me of the exhilaration of the high point of PoF (which for me was The Departing and how dramatic and tense it was)

    During PoF I barely noticed Joko much, during the episode where he kidnapped Taimi I wanted to murder him on the spot. With the release of Long Live The Lich I turned right around and absolutely loved him, JUST in time for his grand finale. Overdramatic, egotistical and verbose is SUCH a good combination, eh? Everything to do with Joko was fun, even laugh out loud funny. I just can't hate him. Moreover the final battle got him acknowledging me as an equal and referring to some genuinely deep things about his boredom with life and the commander's own failings as a hero, constantly doing things that put the world in danger. He was right, honestly, and he was really entertaining, and the only hard part of the boss was when he filled the room with scarabs and I didn't want to shoot his projections before he'd finished all his dialogue.

    Also, I don't feel like anyone really has 'plot armour'. I've seen enough characters die that I always worry about them. If you see Braham and the commander as normal people his jealousy for your glory hogging makes sense, and I empathise with his wounded pride, but having him come back and take your place in the final trap immediately was so heartwarming. And still, I worried about his survival. And Taimi's - I ADORE how much she's visibly grown over the years but we don't get to ignore that she has a disability and that it might get worse? And Faren, heck, I saw the title of one of the chapters and assumed her definitely would die and then I was kinda sad and hated it.

    Anyways I'm really pleased with how that went, the annoying gauntlet leading to Joko where he just made fun of us for ages, only for us to not be able to kill him like every other time he's nearly been defeated, and his reading us for filth while recovering. I wish somehow we could've neutralised him as a threat and put him in a lil glass jar or something to keep around. Talking backpack maybe. Everything with Joko in it has been super amusing, big applause for all your dialogue, I feel like I only just started to appreciate it and now it's over.

    My biggest complaint: we didn't talk back to Joko and snark him in the final fight. I really, really wanted to have some witty lines for myself too.

  • I agree. I became bored with it by the time I finished getting the mount. I don't even want to go back.

  • Cyrin.1035Cyrin.1035 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2018

    Living World 4 / Episode 3 Review -

    End of an Unnecessary Diversion:

    The Joko plot finally ends here and the GW 2 story is far better for it. I was never a fan of the idea of Joko being focused on in the story beyond what we saw of him in the afterlife sequence, the PoF story missions, and the lore of the Crystal Desert region. I knew the moment our character communicated with him, that the writers were setting up their next plot/development stretcher and it has unfortunately played out as I expected.

    The Joko detour plot added nothing to the main story and his death ultimately had no meaning or interesting effect on the world. This was a filler plot that should have been completed in the last episode. Fortunately, they didn't stretch it out any further.

    Now it's time to get back to the actual story of GW 2 with Kralkatorrik and the over-arcing danger of the Elder Dragons and their greater control of magic.

    Where the GW 2 Story Went Off-Track:

    The story has been muddled and inconsistent since LW S3 when they decided to focus on other stories in the world as the main focus. This would not be as much of an issue if they had cleverly weaved these alternate storylines into the one they built from the beginning: the story of the Elder Dragons.

    These storylines would also work far better if they were designed and written as well as the stories GW 1 told. We are in GW 2 now and GW 2 was built on the story of the Elder Dragons. If we suddenly go away from that and focus the main story on random, smaller threats like Caudecus and the quick closing plots of the Mursaat and Joko, it will always feel like a detour.

    The Balthazar storyline was a detour especially since it included less of the other races and focused more on the Human race, but unlike the other detour plots, it was weaved alongside the Elder Dragon's story and showed us a different perception of the dragons. This made Balthazar's plot relevant even if the ending of his own story was poorly executed.

    Strengths and Weaknesses of the LW Episode:

    The story sequences are all excellent especially the sequence using Blish's abilities. The new ability of long-range, instant map traveling shows how much the technology and its implementation has been improved and utilized in the game. It was well-used in this mission.

    This was the war and confrontation episode of the Joko trilogy and by itself, it was exciting. There could have been one more sequence in this to make the episode feel a little more satisfying and not so short, such as the commander actually being in the battle with the ghosts and the dead. We spend a lot of the time building up to an army battle and see very little of it. We mostly hear about it. However, if anything had to be cut for time/development constraints, I think what they chose for sequences was enough and they were all done very well.

    The region story steps are interesting without taking too long or ruining the flow of the story. They helped show more of what was going on in Kourna and helped us care more about the people being affected by the plague.

    It was great to see how the Olmakhan were utilized here. They are one of the best new additions to the story. Both an interesting and helpful new group of characters that I want to see and learn more of.

    I liked seeing the story's main and key characters on the map even outside instances. It feels like they are more part of the story and missions instead of just NPC's we need to check in with and get info from. It also makes this episode feel more epic with how many are present and actively involved.

    Taimi did well this episode. Not too overly-weepy or overly-energetic, but still enough of a presence to be memorable.

    It was nice to see Rox and her leading of the Olmakhan.

    Canach, as always, was great to see here and had some of the best moments and lines:

    • Commander: "What about the towers?"
    • Canach: "What about them?" (*as they explode in the background XD)
    • That whistling during the front line battle.

    Aurene was the real hero of this LW episode. From burning through the bugs in the first sequence to finally taking care of that cliché, marvel universe talking head. Seeing her gather more magic and power is the only tie-in to what is coming and the main story.

    One of my favorite updates was how progress is now saved in story instances. This update was desperately needed and is MUCH appreciated.

    Braham is still around and again, just a tag-along sidekick that annoys me and my character. He continues to serve as someone we have to deal with and carry during the story missions. Even Joko is scratching his head, wondering why we brought this brainless buffoon. The writer's excuse is writing in ways in which he saves or helps us from moments that we would otherwise not be in if our character wasn't dumbed down and made to be so. Braham is likely being forced into these LW episodes alongside the Commander to give us some memories with the character, before either doing something meaningful with him or killing him off. Hopefully the latter.

    When Braham jumped off the cliff... Oh, how I wish that was his end. I would have been perfectly satisfied with that ending for him and it would have been a blessing to the game's development time and the player's entertainment.

    One surprising and original part in the story I enjoyed, was the illusion of your character in the torture chamber. I liked seeing online streamers double-take whenever they came upon the first dead, identical body of their character. These are the kind of clever story ideas and surprises we need more of that also told a lot about Joko's character and what he's been doing.

    The map is mostly unpleasant looking and disappointingly similar in aesthetic to the past PoF maps with mainly a different colored hue and lighting. However, it's diverse areas, inclusion of Gandara, and variety of open terrains designed for the roller beetle mount make it one of the best Pof maps. I was glad to see areas such as the bayou, bluffs, and especially the deep underwater area. Swimming down to the bottom of Ntouka Pond to get that point-of-interest just creates all these ideas and feelings of what a true UW map might be like.

    In the mission, there is the usual annoying mechanic where you have to depend on some object like a bloodstone or energy source. In this case, a ring that has to be reactivated every 10 seconds which becomes very tedious, very quickly, but overall interesting with its play on illusion.

    The cutscene animations were the best I've seen in GW 2 yet. The motion-capture and animation has really evolved and improved. The GW 2 cinematics have always been top-notch and kept to their unique style. Now the in-mission cutscenes have risen to that same level of cinematic quality which was first really noticeable in the LW 2 cutscenes.

    The few things I did enjoy about Joko and the story around him was the lore that was well-integrated in PoF, and the theme of the dead and the scarab bugs that also reminded me of the "Mummy" movies.

    The Main Antagonist of This Story Arc:

    Joko, the character himself is a good showman, but nowhere significant or ambitious enough to warrant as much story/development time as he has taken.

    The writers and story directors should fully utilize what they have that other games do not, such as their massive, godly dragons that incite real fear and intrigue.

    The smaller villain storylines like Caudecus, Balthazar, and Joko are continually designed and executed in unsatisfying ways. And yet, Anet thrives and shines with the stories of their dragons and all that is connected to them. This is not GW 1 anymore. GW 2 began with dragons and should see that storyline through. Villians like Joko are best left to alternate content/feature storylines, unless the devs plan to properly interconnect their plots with the main arcing storyline.

    Watching the Guild Chat on this LW episode proved that there was plenty of indulgence on Joko's dialogue, to the point of me not being excited to play this episode again because there is too much babble and drivel to endure.

    Their need to give Joko too many lines and have him talking the entire time until you get to him reminds me of Azmodan in Act III of Diablo 3, where the demon's head keeps popping up and it adds nothing to the story or experience except annoyance. It kills any fear or intimidation by the time you actually reach them. He even says the recycled and expected: "YOU WILL NEVER DEFEAT ME!" quote that every single cliché villain ALWAYS says just before we defeat them.

    There were some great moments and lines from Joko, such as when you continually run into the hidden beams in the hallway, he eventually says "You have a magic ring. Use it.", or something similar. If they had cut out about 40 percent of his dialogue and focused more on the dialogue that was useful, yet still humorous, he would have been far more interesting to listen to.

    The Star and True Quality of this LW Episode:

    The Roller Beetle mount is the main interest that came with this new content. This is where Anet shines on innovation, design, mechanics, and connecting lore.

    I was hoping for a mount one day that could get around fast on land without needing to get high-up first, and this mount does exactly that and makes it even more fun. The design itself is very clever and well done, especially with the mechanized bike that connects to the beetle through energy while it spins. These mounts have never disappointed and always add even more playability to the game in many areas.

    I like when the mounts are part of the story mission, but the way it was designed to be acquired here works just as well and I'm glad it was made to be collection-focused and not gold-focused. I'm not a fan of group-gated collection steps, but to see how packed-full each of these events were and how players worked together in organizing squads and efforts to help everyone earn their beetle, was very exciting and a testament to the strong dedication of the players and community.

    Episode Release:

    The delays and release fails were clearly a disappointment and an embarrassment on many levels. Certainly enough to finally acknowledge the fact that something drastic needs to be changed in their process to meet the requirements of their new content and features.

    It's evident in the last two LW episodes how rushed and unpolished they are compared to LW 4 Ep 1 and previous LW episodes. Many elements are slapped together, disconnected, recycled, and repetitive. A huge lack of details, depth, and full immersion. However, this episode feels better edited, trimmed, and tightened compared to Ep 2, so that it stayed focused on its chosen storyline and intended features.

    You can't expect a LW episode to be like an expansion where there is a lot of time for development, but you can certainly hope for more than what the last two LW episodes have delivered. Mike Z is trying to achieve that right balance of time and development with this larger content based on his previous community messages and I think he will, but I don't think you can expect to reach that balance until you limit quantity and prioritize quality starting in the planning and design phase.

    The Right Time For Something New:

    I and possibly many others have seen enough of the current GW 2 adopted formula. We want something new, fresh, surprising, and satisfying.

    It's clear the quality of GW 2 has dropped recently in most areas, but with the possibility that the story will now get back on track and with better material to work with, we can look forward to the next LW episodes on the way. As long as the devs can shake their predictable formulas and focus less on bloat and more on actual quality where it matters, I think we'll finally have LW episodes that will hold us over well enough until the next release.

    With the Joko plot behind us and the possibility that we will focus on Kralkatorrik and finally progress the main story, I am very excited for the next LW episode and to see where we go and what we do next.

    My Rating:


  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2018

    @Boogiepop Void.6473 said:
    The most glaringly incomplete element, though, is the meta. It gives lackluster rewards (access to them is also poorly designed, resulting in people begging mesmers for help due to the access key not awarding properly), the final meta boss is generic and uninteresting, and there is nothing story-wise or really at all interesting happening with it. The meta very obviously was meant to be a 3-lane thing like Silverwastes, with us attacking down all 3 bridges and conquering the fortress (the stuff that was happening while we were infiltrating the sewers in the story) and was rushed out with only a single lane in a usable, but not finished, state. No place is this more obvious than the west bridge, that nonsensically ends in a blank wall. There is barely any sign of the corsair fleet other than the one extremely tiny shipwreck; they were probably supposed to show up later in the meta like the ships in Palawadan. The cannon events on Kourna are another indication of this; once again only 1 part of a 3 part meta was finished and these were copy-pasted into the slots to keep the number of items in the Kourna medal collection the same.

    The entire meta needs to be properly redone, with a full and proper battle over Gendara, otherwise it's just a massive waste.

    I 100% agree with that analysis. After figuring out that the meta ended so quickly and that big parts of Gandara are inaccessible outside of the story mission, I felt quite disappointed with that.

    Do something with the empty parts of the map too.

    While it would be nice to have more content in those vastly unused regions (especially the lake hidden behind the mountain wall), I can live with what's there.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I couldn't disagree more.

    What you call "detours" is what is keeping the game and most players' interest alive. I can't hear about the dragons this and the dragons that anymore, and if GW2 was consisting only of that subject, it would be the most boring game in the world. A game needs a bit of diversity story-wise. It's like a pen&paper RPG where a campaign consists of several adventures: each has its own plot, with its own dramatic curve and climax, even when there is something you call a "main plot" and the group is eventually working towards a greater goal. It's what makes for good story-telling and keeps people excited.

    Elona was so well done, Joko's return was so well executed. PoF and LWS4 are my favorite content so far. I hope that the devs keep up their good work and don't return to the low quality of LWS3.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I didn’t read all of this before commenting but I want to say about the pond that it was astoundingly beautiful and fun, and reminded me again how desperately
    I want maps with considerable water content, including events and mapping components. Maybe a map left to the new one that’s half the land next to it and half the shoreline and ocean between Kourna and Istan? Obviously more content would be on land to less upset UW haters but I would love just getting lots of water on the map and some events in there. I have a few ideas for stories but all this wasn’t what I meant to discuss.

    Mainly what I wanted to offer my two cents on was the ideal that only plots related to the elder dragons will be top quality writing - at the moment I can’t disagree, as much as I’ve enjoyed Joko and the WM even more (bloodstone red is beautiful and so is lake Doric). I think the best route for Anet to go down would have other villains either simultaneously or only teased and set up for after the dragons. I fully believe this game has a very very long future ahead of it, and there are only 4 dragons left, so 3 expansions (maybe 4, not sure if Kralk will live). I think it will turn out the best if we focus on elder dragons before moving on to other threats, and then only focusing on those threats one at a time (or 2 occasionally but they seem to struggle with this). I would much rather have a 7, 8, even 9 episode season (however long they’ll be from now on) all about one villain, their minions, the region it all occurs in and the other life/lore there. I’d rather they err on the side of too much lore and time than what we’re getting now with things like the white mantle being dismantled (get it?) in a few episodes after spending hundreds of years rebuilding. Say, rather than an expansion and LW dealing with an increasingly hostile blood legion and jormag up north, I’d rather 2 expansions and seasons. I’d rather know too much about Jormag’s goals and dreams and the blood legions soldiers childhood than have them all die with a barely passable explanation. Tl;dr: only do dragons till they’re dead then do other villains but one at a time.

    I'd rather keep going.. wherever the wind takes us

  • Zaviel.1245Zaviel.1245 Member ✭✭

    Playable Awakened now that Joko is gone? ;)

  • Zaviel.1245Zaviel.1245 Member ✭✭

    I disagree. This map felt great with many awesome things to find. Excuse me while I dance with Choya, I must save us all from the uprising.

  • Felipe.1807Felipe.1807 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I liked the map and all, its awesome, but i do agree that it had so much more potential...the meta event was really weak in my opinion, I mean, I was actually expecting to enter in Joko fortress and face a cool boss or something, but nothing...not only that but the rewards are really weak when compared to other yeah, dont think the map will be able to keep a high population on it for to long

  • ignoring the bugs and glitches and login problems

    The story started so well and nice, but when i played the endmission, it was just stupid, why did we went in and attack joko, we know we cant kill him, others have tried beforehand, thats why he was always imprisoned, why was the story setup our PC thought this time would be any different.
    Maybe had an extra misison to his old prison near jahai to collect some magical stone to imprison him in and have that fail in the end and aurene eat him.
    the whole misison was sitting here going 'noo, noo, we have nothing to stop him, this is gonna fail, why am i doing this' the traps was fun an and all.

    The rollerbeetle, dont know what to think of it much, i only got it yesterday, but i think i will only use it for things that only the beetle can get passed, the griffon is just too versatile.

    PS: still hoping for a Shatterer skin for my griffon and that the story will go into chtulhu-like events with the deep sea dragon now.

  • Wondrouswall.7169Wondrouswall.7169 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2018

    I'm not particularly fond of the story writing, yet, I found this episode solid and quite enjoyable. The first time I liked Braham, which is saying something since I have disliked his character since his introduction years ago.

    The story missions were fine. The final fight with Joko was easier than I thought it would be, though, difficulty will vary person to person. Forewarned's stealth section was a good change of pace, as well as the illusionary puzzles and laser grids in Be My Guest.

    Domain of Kourna is a decent map. It neither stands out or falls flat. The meta progression affected by player contribution is nice, at least to me. I personally hope to see more maps with a meta based on player contribution rather than on timers in the future.

    The new Roller Beetle (Petey) Mount is excellent. I think having it start with 0 endurance was a well-balanced touch to ensure it does not overshadow other mounts. A bit sluggish at times, but good nonetheless, especially with drifting.

    Overall, solid this episode. Even with the rocky start, issues were being resolved within a day or two, so no biggie (to me). Collections were not too annoying though some seem inconsistent such as medals towards the Heroic Banner.

    My only gripe so far is a very small one, and that is the number of shards awarded upon map completion (5). Some of the previous maps were smaller and easier to complete while giving more, so 5 shards seems a tad too low in comparison.


    Back in Black... Desert Online.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2018

    Completely agree on the meta part. The story make it seem like a major and epic event while outside the story instance we just get to raid the side of the city, kill generic asura n26 and loot some chests.

    And they even delayed it...

  • Martnor.1746Martnor.1746 Member ✭✭✭

    For long mission instances like "Forearmed Is Forewarned", please ensure that you can't get stuck in the environment. I somehow got stuck in some rocks and thought I was going to have to restart the whole mission. It can be long especially if you are doing the achievements and being very careful about it. I was frantically mashing my keyboard for 5mins until I thankfully got out. If I had to restart the whole thing, that would have been very depressing.

  • Bast.7253Bast.7253 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2018

    I wonder why they went with all the Inquest stuff in this zone anyway. I can understand it with the research labs in the mountains I guess, but all of them in Gandara to the point that our meta boss is one Asura and his golem suit? And one room with 6 chests and an access key required that you can only get if you actually tag the asura?

    I understand that the inquest base in Sandswept was larger, but it seems to me that if Joko has all of this inquest stuff already in Gandara, and with Gandara being his own heavily guarded fortress now, why wouldn't he just have the portals there instead of being built in a remote island that's far more exposed to civilization, closer to Kralk, AND already has what could be seen as a hostile to his agenda Charr tribe?

    I guess the Inquest base was already there and perhaps the Inquest needed such a large base to create the portals, but given the portals in the First City and the small size of that Inquest facility it doesn't seem like it would be that much more complicated to just relocate everything to his main base of operations.

    I think that's why I've been so tired of the Inquest lately, it just feels like shoehorned filler stuff to give somewhat unnecessary variation to the map. At least the frogs make a lot more sense in this map given that they come from the east and its understandable that they would be in that area. (Even if they don't really add anything other than heart vendor and small hub to the zone.)

    I think the map content will definitely get better now that I can't see any reason that we'll deal with even more inquest and random labs. I haven't even bothered with any of this turret collection stuff going on in this patch. I don't know whose idea that was but it seems like a rather large collection and I haven't really seen anyone even remotely interested in it, or anyone talking about what it does or the advantage of it. I guess it is meant to enhance that turret thing we can buy from the heart vendor. But why would we need to even do that when none of the mobs in this zone are even challenging enough really to need something like that item or when the meta outside of the laser champs that usually die in a few seconds is essentially one champion with a lot of hp that stands in one place? I guess they could be useful for bounties, maybe? I'm just not seeing the point in these turrets at all.