/!\SPOILERS/!\ /!\SPOILERS/!\ /!\SPOILERS/!\

I like Aurene, her lore, her relationship with the commander (us), and all, but lately I feel like she's being used like a Deus Ex Machina. When we're in a bad spot she pops out of nowhere and saves our skin... The end.

In this last episode my personnal disappointment was double, as I was just starting to like Joko's character, and I actually found his monologue interesting... And then Aurene poped all of a sudden and f** ate him. Okay that was kind of funny, but I don't feel like I played a part in it. Nothing built towards it. Joko beat us, Aurene did everything. Actually I was almost angry at her because I wanted to hear more of what Joko had to say about the dragons and all...

Please, let us be in danger, stop with the guardian angel Aurene. It doesn't make the story interesting, and I think both she and the commander deserve a little better in the story.

Edit: Also, is Aurene with us or not? Because she's always giving a helping paw, but she apparently refuses to stay nearby. Does she want to keep her distance or does she want to help? Her behavior is confusing

If you think she's a Deus Ex Machina right now wait until she gets Jokos ability to infinitely bring people (and herself, provided that what Joko said is true) back on a large scale (remember she's a dragon, she should already have more magic in reserve then Joko could ever hope to obtain). Think she's going to start with bringing back Glint and Vlast? Oh well, at least we now have a in lore explanation why our character has infinite lives during story missions.

To be fair, if we hadn't severely weakened Joko first, killing him serval times, he prolly would've just killed her.

@ROMANG.1903 said:

/!\SPOILERS/!\ /!\SPOILERS/!\ /!\SPOILERS/!\

I like Aurene, her lore, her relationship with the commander (us), and all, but lately I feel like she's being used like a Deus Ex Machina. When we're in a bad spot she pops out of nowhere and saves our skin... The end.

Except when she doesn't and Balthazar kills us.

@ROMANG.1903 said:In this last episode my personnal disappointment was double, as I was just starting to like Joko's character, and I actually found his monologue interesting... And then Aurene poped all of a sudden and f** ate him. Okay that was kind of funny, but I don't feel like I played a part in it. Nothing built towards it. Joko beat us, Aurene did everything.

No, he didn't. We beat him fair and square, he's just immortal and rose again.

@ROMANG.1903 said:> Please, let us be in danger, stop with the guardian angel Aurene.Again. We. Already. Died. Despite Aurene rushing to help. How much more danger you wanna be in?

@Feanor.2358 said:

@ROMANG.1903 said:> Please, let us be in danger, stop with the guardian angel Aurene.Again. We. Already. Died. Despite Aurene rushing to help. How much more danger you wanna be in?

That was before she was grown up. Now she's not a baby anymore, she can jump in anytime. There is nothing stoping her, not as long as she's flying around freely, and that's what's happening at the moment. Aurene is around so no problem. It's not because we've been in danger once, that it shouldn't still be the case.

@Tails.9372 said:If you think she's a Deus Ex Machina right now wait until she gets Jokos ability to infinitely bring people (and herself, provided that what Joko said is true) back on a large scale (remember she's a dragon, she should already have more magic in reserve then Joko could ever hope to obtain). Think she's going to start with bringing back Glint and Vlast? Oh well, at least we now have a in lore explanation why our character has infinite lives during story missions.

Two things about Glint and Vlast in relation to Joko.

• Earlier in the episode (in Amnoon), Joko is clearly afraid of dragons.
• If Joko could awaken dragons, he probably would have at some point. He might not have been willing to confront an Elder Dragon, but he would have assaulted a champion like Vlast, Shatter, or another one of Kralkatorrik's champions at some point.

@ROMANG.1903 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@ROMANG.1903 said:> Please, let us be in danger, stop with the guardian angel Aurene.Again. We. Already. Died. Despite Aurene rushing to help. How much more danger you wanna be in?

Depends on the threat. Yeah, she can take out minor villains. She won't be able to save us from Kralkatorrik for instance. Joko is just too... small... after two Elder Dragons and a fallen god, for the players to feel in real danger. Is not that Aurene is around, it's that we've defeated much more formidable foes. But his immortality is well-established, and that's somewhat of a problem in a antagonist. Hence, Aurene.

@Feanor.2358 said:

@ROMANG.1903 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@ROMANG.1903 said:> Please, let us be in danger, stop with the guardian angel Aurene.Again. We. Already. Died. Despite Aurene rushing to help. How much more danger you wanna be in?

But hadn't it been more interesting for us to find a way for Joko to stop resurecting? Even if the answer is still "eat him", that would have been nice to find this out ourselves instead of having it come out of nowhere...

Do not forget that Aurene was unfused not only with Kralkatorrik's magics, but also with Mordremoth's and Zhaitan's. Eating joko is consuming magic, that what dragons do. I assume that Joko was using similar type of art to that of a Zhaitan. Good dinner for Aurene to grow again, and maybe take control of Awakened, converting them into some form of less hostile branded army, to rival Kralkatorrik.

Also i've noticed, by reading some stuff about Joko, that he wasn't really active, after Zhaitan awakening. He didn't try to face Kralkatorrik and he took Pact's victory over Zhaitan as his own. Clearly he was afraid of dragons.

Also Joko reminded me of Ultron, and Aurene reminded me of The Hulk in last scene =)

P.s. with Aurene having an army, and Commander with his military experience, and both share a bond. Imagine what they can do with poor Elder dragons.

@ROMANG.1903 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@ROMANG.1903 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@ROMANG.1903 said:> Please, let us be in danger, stop with the guardian angel Aurene.Again. We. Already. Died. Despite Aurene rushing to help. How much more danger you wanna be in?

It's not much of a stretch anyway - we know dragons eat magic and it's obviously magic that keeps him alive. And there's an issue with sensitivity. Asking the players to give the command for a person - even a villain and even a lich - to be eaten? That's not the kind of a moral decision you want to impose on your players.

@Hesacon.8735 said:

• Earlier in the episode (in Amnoon), Joko is clearly afraid of dragons.But that doesn't apply to Aurene.

@Hesacon.8735 said:

• If Joko could awaken dragons, he probably would have at some point. He might not have been willing to confront an Elder Dragon, but he would have assaulted a champion like Vlast, Shatter, or another one of Kralkatorrik's champions at some point.Like I said her magic should be a lot stronger than Jokos (she's basically made out of magic). We don't know how much magic is required in order to "revive" a dragon but I don't think Jokos limitations are applicable to Aurene.

@ROMANG.1903 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@ROMANG.1903 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@ROMANG.1903 said:> Please, let us be in danger, stop with the guardian angel Aurene.Again. We. Already. Died. Despite Aurene rushing to help. How much more danger you wanna be in?

If that came out of nowhere, you haven't been paying attention, neither to HoT, PoF nor the core story. How many times do they have to tell you that "Dragons. Eat. Magic" before you catch the hint?

The logical choice to end a creature permanently, is having it eaten by a dragon, because the dragon will absorb that creatures magic, that is, digesting it's soul. It's been bended in neon through out the entire history of gw2. So Aurene eating a tremendously powerful, mad and immortal villainous necromancer really shouldn't surprise anyone.We are at a point in the story where Aurene is practically a baby dragon. She couldn't have taken Joko down on her own, she wouldn't stand a chance against him. He was severely weakened by having just died and reawakened. If we had not done the majority of the work, Aurene probably wouldn't even have tried. I mean why else didn't she just go there and eat him in the first place? Why did she wait until that exact right moment? She could't have timed that like she did unless she was lying in wait. We did the work, She just set the dot over the i at the end of it.

The only other solution at our disposal, is the bloodstone and soul-battery, located in Abbadon's Mouth in the Ring of Fire islands. I'd like to see you move that to the crystal dessert. Moving Joko to the Ring of Fire and placing a powerful Lich on a bloodstone, would be next to suicide, so I really don't think that would've worked in our favour either way.

So, from a very reasonable perspective, this is the only one thing that could possibly have happened here.

@"Zelanard.5806" said:If that came out of nowhere, you haven't been paying attention, neither to HoT, PoF nor the core story. How many times do they have to tell you that "Dragons. Eat. Magic" before you catch the hint?But never did a NPC say "Hey, what if we destroyed Joko's remains somehow so he doesn't revive?". Nothing led to it. And I don't want to be saved by Aurene every time there's an inconvenience.

What should have been done: Don't make Aurene finish the job, and don't give Joko a petrify power in the first place, why would he have access to that?

In others words, they Deus Ex Machina'd Joko so he could have the upper hand, then they Deus Ex Machina'd us so we could get out of it. At this point, let us finish Joko right away? I don't know, let's burn him, anything?

@Tails.9372 said:If you think she's a Deus Ex Machina right now wait until she gets Jokos ability to infinitely bring people (and herself, provided that what Joko said is true) back on a large scale (remember she's a dragon, she should already have more magic in reserve then Joko could ever hope to obtain). Think she's going to start with bringing back Glint and Vlast? Oh well, at least we now have a in lore explanation why our character has infinite lives during story missions.

That doesn't not seem true at all as every dragon even the elder dragons have to go around actively devouring magic or slowly absorb it while they sleep. They are large containers for magic but aren't automatically 100% full all the time.

Awakening also requires corpses. Also awakening seems unable to deal with pre-existing conditions but post-awakening damage can be fixed.

@ROMANG.1903 said:

@"Zelanard.5806" said:If that came out of nowhere, you haven't been paying attention, neither to HoT, PoF nor the core story. How many times do they have to tell you that "Dragons. Eat. Magic" before you catch the hint?But never did a NPC say "Hey, what if we destroyed Joko's remains somehow so he doesn't revive?". Nothing led to it. And I don't want to be saved by Aurene every time there's an inconvenience.

First off, Joko did not petrify anyone, he put us in the same stasis field that he had when we first walked into the room, only this time it was both the Commander and Braham each in a field. Second, we have a connection with Aurene, call it a seventh sense if you want, but she's aware of where we are and whether or not we are in danger and need help, that much has been made abundantly clear. Third, even burning Joko wouldn't kill him, he was immortal, and remember at the harbor he claimed we cheated by bringing in a dragon...that should have given you a hint that Aurene was going to play a part in his demise...and if you went up to her after the end when you could talk to everyone she gave you a WEAK roar, which tells me that eating Joko may have some minor consequences, either that or she just ate him to fast, lol.

I could care less what he had to say about us killing two Elder Dragons, or why he was telling everyone that it was Joko that did all the things we did...we already know the consequences now, so I highly doubt he could shed any light on anything, just because he's been alive for centuries.

@"Zaklex.6308" said:...and if you went up to her after the end when you could talk to everyone she gave you a weak roar, which tells me that eating Joko may have some minor consequences, either that or she just ate him to fast, lol.

"The Dragon cycle is one of feast and famine. Ravenous, they rise. Sated, they sleep. "After consuming Joko and his magic, she needs to sleep.

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Zaklex.6308" said:...and if you went up to her after the end when you could talk to everyone she gave you a weak roar, which tells me that eating Joko may have some minor consequences, either that or she just ate him to fast, lol.

True, but a WEAK roar does not equal tiredness in my book...if they had used some other adjective besides weak then I might agree...but that could be just me, I don't associate weak with sleep.

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:...and if you went up to her after the end when you could talk to everyone she gave you a weak roar, which tells me that eating Joko may have some minor consequences, either that or she just ate him to fast, lol.

Taking issue with established lore based on your semantic interpretation?ummmm... ok then.

@Zelanard.5806 said:So, from a very reasonable perspective, this is the only one thing that could possibly have happened here.Well I guess with a little bit more research the asuras could have invented a machine which drains the magic out of its target similar to how a dragon does it.

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Tails.9372 said:If you think she's a Deus Ex Machina right now wait until she gets Jokos ability to infinitely bring people (and herself, provided that what Joko said is true) back on a large scale (remember she's a dragon, she should already have more magic in reserve then Joko could ever hope to obtain). Think she's going to start with bringing back Glint and Vlast? Oh well, at least we now have a in lore explanation why our character has infinite lives during story missions.

1. she needs the body of the target in question

2. bringing back something like Tequatl shuld require much more magical energy then bringing back a simple human

But lore wise there's no reason why she shouldn't be capable of bringing back something like a dragon provided she has the body and enough magic to spare.

@Tails.9372 said:

@Hesacon.8735 said:

• Earlier in the episode (in Amnoon), Joko is clearly afraid of dragons.But that doesn't apply to Aurene.

He gets all mad about Aurene interfering with his plague'd sailors.

@Hesacon.8735 said:

• If Joko could awaken dragons, he probably would have at some point. He might not have been willing to confront an Elder Dragon, but he would have assaulted a champion like Vlast, Shatter, or another one of Kralkatorrik's champions at some point.Like I said her magic should be a lot stronger than Jokos (she's basically made out of magic). We don't know how much magic is required in order to "revive" a dragon but I don't think Jokos limitations are applicable to Aurene.

Joko spent centuries trying to obtain the Scarab Plague. If he had the power to awaken dragons, he would have focused effort on doing so. His army is enough to take on a champion like Shatter, and Kralkatorrik must have champions in the Crystal Desert since he set up shop there. The campaigns against Zhaitan and Mordremoth showed just how plentiful champions are.

@Hesacon.8735 said:

@Tails.9372 said:

@Hesacon.8735 said:

• Earlier in the episode (in Amnoon), Joko is clearly afraid of dragons.But that doesn't apply to Aurene.

As someone already pointed out, Aurene and the Commander share a connection. Yes, it always feels a bit dragon ex machina, but there is precedent. As for why she doesn't hang out with us otherwise? I can't say for certain, but recall from the Vlast recording that he was very dismissive of "lesser" beings. Not hateful, just dismissive. He resented the Forgotten for taking ownership of Glint's plan and his destiny. And hes resented being trapped in Kesho instead of flying free. So imagine Aurene has the same feelings, only she has had healthier social development than Vlast (the stated reason for his feelings).

Also of note, Joko mocked our ignorance for taking out two Elder Dragons, which means he had a much greater understanding of their importance and power than we did. It is not too far to imagine that level of power being displayed in an Elder Dragon's grandchild. It is perhaps even fitting that the "Unkillable" Joke was brought down by an entity that he already knew to be too powerful to reckon with.

@Tails.9372 said:

@"Zelanard.5806" said:So, from a very reasonable perspective, this is the only one thing that could possibly have happened here.Well I guess with a little bit more research the asuras could have invented a machine which drains the magic out of its target similar to how a dragon does it.

Yes, with more research, maybe. But did we really have that kind of time? We had to find a "here and now" solution... or watch half humanity get annihilated while we were working in a lab...

@ROMANG.1903 said:

@"Zelanard.5806" said:If that came out of nowhere, you haven't been paying attention, neither to HoT, PoF nor the core story. How many times do they have to tell you that "Dragons. Eat. Magic" before you catch the hint?But never did a NPC say "Hey, what if we destroyed Joko's remains somehow so he doesn't revive?". Nothing led to it. And I don't want to be saved by Aurene every time there's an inconvenience.

No. Not anything. Even if we burned his body to ashes and destroyed every remain of his physical being, he'd still return. Look at the Liches from Orr. They're pure spirit. He didn't need his body to revive. We knew this.We had to find a way to destroy his spirit or to store it in a very permanent way. We already knew, that the combination of a bloodstone with a soul battery was not permanent enough. We learned that from the incident in bloodstone fen. Even if we had not known that, we wouldn't have a method of using that either way.

I will give you that our characters acted like a plain old idiot. The fact that we went into Kourna without a sequence where we discuss what to do with joko once we get there, is idiocy. But that Aurene fly in to deal the finishing blow, after we weakened Joko, is not something to complain about. Especially not after the most amusing story instance we've had in the game so far.

I thought previous living story chapters had established that as Aurine's champion, Aurine has established a psychic link with the player character. She has, in the past, been able to track us down when we were in trouble - so why would she let us die now?

If anything, I would have been more upset if Aurine DIDN'T come to save us.

@Hesacon.8735 said:

@Tails.9372 said:If you think she's a Deus Ex Machina right now wait until she gets Jokos ability to infinitely bring people (and herself, provided that what Joko said is true) back on a large scale (remember she's a dragon, she should already have more magic in reserve then Joko could ever hope to obtain). Think she's going to start with bringing back Glint and Vlast? Oh well, at least we now have a in lore explanation why our character has infinite lives during story missions.

• Earlier in the episode (in Amnoon), Joko is clearly afraid of dragons.
• If Joko could awaken dragons, he probably would have at some point. He might not have been willing to confront an Elder Dragon, but he would have assaulted a champion like Vlast, Shatter, or another one of Kralkatorrik's champions at some point.

No, he wouldn't have because 1. that meant killing those dragons first (which is pointless because they could just fly away) and 2. they'd need to have bodies not just made of crystal