So i finished the POF. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

So i finished the POF.

If Balthazar is really dead, who replaces him? If kormir replaces Abaddon after killing him should we replace the god of war?

Comments

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2018

    he was no longer the god of war when he was killed, since theoretically according to Kormir the divinity and title of Balthy were removed.

    But supposing that in the case, had not been removed, the new God of war would be Kralkatorrik and partially Aurene which were the 2 that absorbed his magic.

    Tannhauser Engineer(SoS) | Atlantean Sword | Khel the Undead

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2018

    And considering that Kormir needed a "special gift" to be able to absorb Abbadon. Practically signaling that absorbing the power of a full God is not a matter of simply killing it.

    Tannhauser Engineer(SoS) | Atlantean Sword | Khel the Undead

  • You right! Hadn't thought about that.

  • Sir Alric.5078Sir Alric.5078 Member ✭✭✭

    Yes, Balthazar is really dead. And no, the PC can never become a god for obvious reasons, no matter how much some players would like to see it happen. In the story, Balthazar's godly powers were taken away from him by the other gods (and we don't know what they did with it), and the Bloodstone + Jormag & Primordus Dragon Magic he used to regain power after escaping his imprisonment got absorbed by Aurene and Kralkatorrik after his body exploded.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Six_Human_Gods

    The extent of power of the human gods is not known, but it is known they are not omniscient, and by their own very nature as a pantheon each is not omnipotent (though human legends do claim they are omnipotent in their own specific domain). Xakk, in his publication The Six: Being or Playing God, states his belief that the Six are not gods, but are what anyone would become if given the amount of magical energy they possessed and allowed to live as long as they appear to have.

    Basically what others have said. First off, the human "gods" weren't gods in the sense that they were omniscient but rather that they were super-duper-ultra powerful. That alone is quite a significant difference in how you define godhood.

    Second, Balthy was already stripped of his powers by the other 5 human gods which left him not but a husk of his former self. He used dragon energy to circumvent his predicament. This energy in turn was absorbed by Kralk and Aureen after the player character, which probably counts as by now most powerful mortals on the material plane, used Sohothin with Aureens to finish Balthy off.

    Simply put, the humand pantheon are less involved with how Tyria actually works but more intertwined with human lore and assumptions. The creatures most entwined in the actual Tyrian magical and lifecycle are the dragon's to which extent we have not been given a possible solution or remedy to our hero killing 2 off.

  • SlippyCheeze.5483SlippyCheeze.5483 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sir Alric.5078 said:
    Yes, Balthazar is really dead. And no, the PC can never become a god for obvious reasons, no matter how much some players would like to see it happen. In the story, Balthazar's godly powers were taken away from him by the other gods (and we don't know what they did with it), and the Bloodstone + Jormag & Primordus Dragon Magic he used to regain power after escaping his imprisonment got absorbed by Aurene and Kralkatorrik after his body exploded.

    You say that now, but just you wait:

    In time we will travel through the mists to AU Tyria, 30 years in the past, where we will help fight Grommash Helscream the remaining human gods, and their hordes, to prevent them from ruining the AU version of the world, which we care about because of, uh, um, uh, complicated reasons to do with reusing the existing base maps or something.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just for clarification, the most likely scenario (as debated on the forums) is that Balthazar was replaced way before his appearance. Balthazar was stripped of his power, but that power had to go somewhere, likely someone who the rest of the pantheon nominated as his replacement.

    @SlippyCheeze.5483 said:
    You say that now, but just you wait:

    In time we will travel through the mists to AU Tyria, 30 years in the past, where we will help fight Grommash Helscream the remaining human gods, and their hordes, to prevent them from ruining the AU version of the world, which we care about because of, uh, um, uh, complicated reasons to do with reusing the existing base maps or something.

    I know you're riffing on warlords of draenor, but world vs world vs world IS canon. We are literally fighting alternate universes for dominance over the mists.

    If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. Veterans can make signatures apparently.

  • SlippyCheeze.5483SlippyCheeze.5483 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    Just for clarification, the most likely scenario (as debated on the forums) is that Balthazar was replaced way before his appearance. Balthazar was stripped of his power, but that power had to go somewhere, likely someone who the rest of the pantheon nominated as his replacement.

    @SlippyCheeze.5483 said:
    You say that now, but just you wait:

    In time we will travel through the mists to AU Tyria, 30 years in the past, where we will help fight Grommash Helscream the remaining human gods, and their hordes, to prevent them from ruining the AU version of the world, which we care about because of, uh, um, uh, complicated reasons to do with reusing the existing base maps or something.

    I know you're riffing on warlords of draenor, but world vs world vs world IS canon. We are literally fighting alternate universes for dominance over the mists.

    The WoW bit is a joke, yeah, but I'm ... honestly, I'm half serious about "chase the gods through the mists" being something that'll eventually happen as part of the story, exactly because of those canon battles and all.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SlippyCheeze.5483 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    Just for clarification, the most likely scenario (as debated on the forums) is that Balthazar was replaced way before his appearance. Balthazar was stripped of his power, but that power had to go somewhere, likely someone who the rest of the pantheon nominated as his replacement.

    @SlippyCheeze.5483 said:
    You say that now, but just you wait:

    In time we will travel through the mists to AU Tyria, 30 years in the past, where we will help fight Grommash Helscream the remaining human gods, and their hordes, to prevent them from ruining the AU version of the world, which we care about because of, uh, um, uh, complicated reasons to do with reusing the existing base maps or something.

    I know you're riffing on warlords of draenor, but world vs world vs world IS canon. We are literally fighting alternate universes for dominance over the mists.

    The WoW bit is a joke, yeah, but I'm ... honestly, I'm half serious about "chase the gods through the mists" being something that'll eventually happen as part of the story, exactly because of those canon battles and all.

    I don't know if we'll chase the gods down, considering what was revealed from the garden of the gods book, essentially saying that the gods are looking for another place to put humanity on (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Garden_of_the_Gods). It's certainly a possibility but it more likely means that the gods will invite all the playable races onto the new world (if that's a thing that happens). But since I doubt the gods would invite non-humans, it seems a weird plot point to include. I have a feeling that's not gonna happen, but if I'm proven wrong I hope it's exciting.

    If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. Veterans can make signatures apparently.

  • dusanyu.4057dusanyu.4057 Member ✭✭✭

    The issue when Abbadon was killed was not that he needed to be replaced as a god but his power was running wild (foreshadowing why dragon killing was bad) someone has to suck up all that power before it could do damage Kormir acted as a magical roll of paper towels.

    In the case of Balthazar ole Krackletows and Aurine were there to take the magic in no new god just two more powerful dragons.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    he was no longer the god of war when he was killed, since theoretically according to Kormir the divinity and title of Balthy were removed.

    But supposing that in the case, had not been removed, the new God of war would be Kralkatorrik and partially Aurene which were the 2 that absorbed his magic.

    technically not really his power, it's the magic he absorbed from the bloodstone, so the magic Kralkatorrik and Aurene absorbed was mostly bloodstone's magic

    but he most likely had remnants of his original power left in him that kept him alive while locked up in the mist, that's how he was still alive and able to reignite Sohothin

    it seems in GW's universe, Power = Magic = Life Force

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  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @dusanyu.4057 said:
    The issue when Abbadon was killed was not that he needed to be replaced as a god but his power was running wild (foreshadowing why dragon killing was bad) someone has to suck up all that power before it could do damage Kormir acted as a magical roll of paper towels.

    In the case of Balthazar ole Krackletows and Aurine were there to take the magic in no new god just two more powerful dragons.

    Yes... and no.

    Yes, because both cases are indeed power.

    But Abaddon's case was his divine power, while Balthazar's case was power from the Bloodstone, Primordus, and Jormag (aka Tyrian magic power). The two are fundamentally different.

    To say they're the same is to take a glass full of apple juice and a glass full of orange juice and say they're the same because they're both glasses full of juice.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @dusanyu.4057 said:
    The issue when Abbadon was killed was not that he needed to be replaced as a god but his power was running wild (foreshadowing why dragon killing was bad) someone has to suck up all that power before it could do damage Kormir acted as a magical roll of paper towels.

    In the case of Balthazar ole Krackletows and Aurine were there to take the magic in no new god just two more powerful dragons.

    Yes... and no.

    Yes, because both cases are indeed power.

    But Abaddon's case was his divine power, while Balthazar's case was power from the Bloodstone, Primordus, and Jormag (aka Tyrian magic power). The two are fundamentally different.

    To say they're the same is to take a glass full of apple juice and a glass full of orange juice and say they're the same because they're both glasses full of juice.

    What’s a bit interesting with Abaddon’s Death and the wakening ripple effect that it caused on Primordus is that the God’s magic isn’t native to Tyria. When Abaddon died he is now introducing new magic into Tyria’s magic pool, which in and of itself is already screwing up the magical balance because now there’s more magic floating around that shouldn’t be there. Thanks Abaddon!

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2018

    He wasn't really adding new magic into the system (not with his death at least). All of his magic got absorbed by Kormir, it's just that momentary large amount of ball o' magic was like bringing cooked food across the doorway of a hungry sleeping person's bedroom before it got fully eaten without crumbs.

    Now it's entirely possible the gods (and Forgotten) added new magic into the system beforehand, though we have no solid proof of this. But the Mists seems to seep into Tyria constantly (any place of massive deaths becomes weak between the two) so it likely isn't a closed system in the first place.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    He wasn't really adding new magic into the system (not with his death at least). All of his magic got absorbed by Kormir, it's just that momentary large amount of ball o' magic was like bringing cooked food across the doorway of a hungry sleeping person's bedroom before it got fully eaten without crumbs.

    Now it's entirely possible the gods (and Forgotten) added new magic into the system beforehand, though we have no solid proof of this. But the Mists seems to seep into Tyria constantly (any place of massive deaths becomes weak between the two) so it likely isn't a closed system in the first place.

    Maybe, I’ll have to watch the cinematic, as of right now it’s kinda ambiguous if magic had entered the system or not, I can’t get over what Kormir said about the upending the balance of magic in Tyria, that is the weird part, would agree 100% if it weren’t for this one sentence, because why would the balance of magic suddenly be overturned.

    Kormir: The surge of power upended the balance of magic in Tyria

    I don’t understand why the balance would be upended, even if Primordus noticed something cooking on the stove, how does that upset the balance of magic exactly?

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2018

    I went back and watched the whole cinematic, I think your right, I think what was happening was that Abaddon’s magic was causing like a ripple effect in the pool of magic, from the surging his death caused. Kinda like a storm in the ocean. Then Kormir absorbed the power the ripples or storms faded and the sea calmed, but it caused enough ruckus to disturbed Primordus slumber.

    Edit: To take it one step further, I think Primordus sensed this large amount of power and energy surging. Which when you think about it, is what wakes the dragon’s up. There’s too much magic it needs to be eaten. I need to eat this magic. The magic is then absorbed and Primordus is there, still waking up.

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