Old content vs new.

I love the new map it feels more like a full map. The problem I have is that even if Anet innovates it also constantly leaves the good stuff behind which leaves me more and more disinterested in the game. If you leave it all behind it leaves the maps with mediocre activities all the time. Stuff that has disappeared so far are world bosses, dungeons, and recently jumping puzzles. Have I forgotten something?

The new stuff I love, gliding and the mounts and new somewhat improved underwater content like the new deep bottomless water section in Kourna Domain which I love exploring. The perfect GW 2 for me would be to keep the new and bring back the old then I think Anet would assure itself the best MMORPG title for years to come.

I'm very much concerned for content in general. I was floored when, at the release of PoF, they announced that they were segmenting the game. This meant that EVERYTHING added in HoT and LS3, from gliding to lavatubes to grappling vines, can NEVER EVER be reused. No new map can EVER make use of these elements ever again. This represents a HUGE waste of ideas and resources. Instead of truly expanding the game, it turns it into a bunch of mini-sequels.

I'm very concerned that this is going to continue into the next expansion, with all mount content being abandoned in favor of whatever the new mechanic is then. We just got the beetle and it's not even clear if we are going to keep seeing content for it going forward. Are the breakable walls in Kourna the only breakable walls that will ever exist? We just don't know.

Part of this is again the issue of segmentation. By forcing the LS episodes to stand alone, it makes it so they can't put content in later episodes that uses content from earlier ones. Even the lava tubes in LS3 ran into problems with forcing people who missed it to go out and pay money to get Episode 2 so they would have access. What they really need to do is give all the LS episodes to people if they qualify for one of them. Then they at least know that everyone has all the same stuff within a season.

I play the old AND the new stuff, all depending on what I feel like doing when I log in. I have been enjoying the game since beta doing exactly what I feel like doing. I have never felt like I could not go back to the old maps.

@Hybarf Tics.2048 said:Old content vs new

Arenanet have gone full circle, the new maps feel like old maps, as they are the same type of one shot throw away content you breeze through while levelling to 80.

With HoT they really out did themselves, the maps were like nothing that had ever been seen before in MMO's, they were pushing the envelope and it was working. Why they decided to stop going in that direction I'm not sure I will ever understand, it's very disappointing to see how mediocre the maps have become since HoT.

@Vavume.8065 said:

@Hybarf Tics.2048 said:Old content vs new

That's simple: people kept on complaining about how terrible HoT was and how they wanted something more like the base game. A lot of players hated that you had to progress the meta events to complete maps, or even to move through them in some cases (mainly Dragon's Stand) and that they felt like they needed to be in a group (or at least working with a group even if they weren't in a squad or party) to complete anything.

So Anet did what their players claimed they wanted and made maps without big meta-events (or with entirely optional meta-events), which were largely flat or with big open areas and very simple to navigate and where almost everything could be done solo. As tends to happen when a company does what their customers ask for reactions have been mixed at best. Some people genuinely love PoF and view HoT as a mistake they're happy to forget about, others hate it or find it boring and some people don't seem to know what they want.

@Danikat.8537 said:

That's simple: people kept on complaining about how terrible HoT was and how they wanted something more like the base game.

That is the reason a lot of people seem to believe is behind Arenanet going back to more basic maps, but is it really the reason? it could just as easily be coincidence and have been done for a totally different reason. I've never seen a dev explain their reasons for it, if you have a link I would be interested to hear it from their side. If I was to guess I would also guess that it is in fact the reason, but I don't like basing things on guess work.

I genuinely would like to know if it really was the players that could not cope with HoT maps that got this game dumbed down, because if there was ever a time to not listen to a section of the community, that was the time.

@"Boogiepop Void.6473" said:I'm very much concerned for content in general. I was floored when, at the release of PoF, they announced that they were segmenting the game. This meant that EVERYTHING added in HoT and LS3, from gliding to lavatubes to grappling vines, can NEVER EVER be reused. No new map can EVER make use of these elements ever again. This represents a HUGE waste of ideas and resources. Instead of truly expanding the game, it turns it into a bunch of mini-sequels.

I'm very concerned that this is going to continue into the next expansion, with all mount content being abandoned in favor of whatever the new mechanic is then. We just got the beetle and it's not even clear if we are going to keep seeing content for it going forward. Are the breakable walls in Kourna the only breakable walls that will ever exist? We just don't know.

But that constant cycle of Tabula Rasa -> new stuff -> repeat is the core of MMORPG expansion strategy. And has been since forever. The only difference in GW2 is that without a rising player level, our power increases have to come from elsewhere (new and slightly more optimal gear stat combos, elite specs, etc), but mechanically speaking making the old maps "outdated" is just as much an important part of it as it was for any other MMORPG.

Sure, they're still there. Just as in all other MMOs. But you're supposed to interact with the new stuff, where the new and actively supported mechanics are!

The reason this is done is usually to save on development costs: As MMOs age, they accrue more and more and more mechanics and elements. Supporting all or even many of these would be far too taxing a task for any dev team. To alleviate it, you constantly cut out existing content "after it's done", making room for new things.

@Vavume.8065 said:Arenanet have gone full circle, the new maps feel like old maps, as they are the same type of one shot throw away content you breeze through while levelling to 80.

Or rather, it's the same type of throwaway as the LS3 maps. Though to be fair, not quite as bad as Ember Bay or Lake Doric, but those maps were an achievement of their own...

@Carighan.6758 said:

@"Boogiepop Void.6473" said:I'm very much concerned for content in general. I was floored when, at the release of PoF, they announced that they were segmenting the game. This meant that EVERYTHING added in HoT and LS3, from gliding to lavatubes to grappling vines, can NEVER EVER be reused. No new map can EVER make use of these elements ever again. This represents a HUGE waste of ideas and resources. Instead of truly expanding the game, it turns it into a bunch of mini-sequels.

I'm very concerned that this is going to continue into the next expansion, with all mount content being abandoned in favor of whatever the new mechanic is then. We just got the beetle and it's not even clear if we are going to keep seeing content for it going forward. Are the breakable walls in Kourna the only breakable walls that will ever exist? We just don't know.

@Vavume.8065 said:Arenanet have gone full circle, the new maps feel like old maps, as they are the same type of one shot throw away content you breeze through while levelling to 80.

If that is true, then why did they make the rewards for the new map so much worse than something like DS? HoT metas still provide more reward than anything from PoF, outside of maybe istan. This game isn't like other MMOs, and shouldn't be compared to things it doesn't try to mimic. GW2 is a game of replayability, which is why not all new maps have stat selectable accessories, and going back to LS3 is still a good choice for gearing.

The perfect gw2 for me wouod go back to se2. Make nice maps whicha re fleshed out and have alot of replayability.

The new maps are cool and all but after a week im done and come the next episode they are forgotten.

Also ye Worldbosses, Jp's, Actuall mapwide epic metas, all good stuff and all absent since hot (well isntan has a budget meta and some maps have a jp i guess)

Has season 4 even had a Jumping puzzle?

@Hybarf Tics.2048 said:Has season 4 even had a Jumping puzzle?

nope

@Edgy McEdgelord.4790 said:

@Hybarf Tics.2048 said:Has season 4 even had a Jumping puzzle?

That makes me sad. I guess the JP haters won.

I play everywhere. I still have a character that does AB every 2-3 days along with doing Bloodstone Fen nearly every day because I just really like those gliding skills. And the dailies are really fast.

@Endless Soul.5178 said:

@Edgy McEdgelord.4790 said:

@Hybarf Tics.2048 said:Has season 4 even had a Jumping puzzle?

I hate them as well (because I suck at it), but somehow there is a part missing on a map if there isnt a JP.

Screw the ones in Ember Bay and Draconis Mons though, those are not JPs but just pure evilness.

@Carighan.6758 said:

@"Boogiepop Void.6473" said:I'm very much concerned for content in general. I was floored when, at the release of PoF, they announced that they were segmenting the game. This meant that EVERYTHING added in HoT and LS3, from gliding to lavatubes to grappling vines, can NEVER EVER be reused. No new map can EVER make use of these elements ever again. This represents a HUGE waste of ideas and resources. Instead of truly expanding the game, it turns it into a bunch of mini-sequels.

I'm very concerned that this is going to continue into the next expansion, with all mount content being abandoned in favor of whatever the new mechanic is then. We just got the beetle and it's not even clear if we are going to keep seeing content for it going forward. Are the breakable walls in Kourna the only breakable walls that will ever exist? We just don't know.

And the thing is, this is true for practically any aspect of the game and shortcuts, compromises and such are the only way to keep this aspect of culling accumulated elements. Few players either understand or acknowledge that, as the game adds more story, dialog, zones, abilities, skins, etc, the ability to support or update the older elements becomes more thinly stretched.

@Danikat.8537 said:

That's simple: people kept on complaining about how terrible HoT was and how they wanted something more like the base game. A lot of players hated that you had to progress the meta events to complete maps, or even to move through them in some cases (mainly Dragon's Stand) and that they felt like they needed to be in a group (or at least working with a group even if they weren't in a squad or party) to complete anything.

As a new player, I've already heard how HoT is terrible and blamed for loss of player population in the game. I'm not surprised they would leave that just like Season 1 complaints ensured it would never be replicated (and probably why its still a summary in my story log). I can't say I'm thrilled about needing to progress events in old areas since I recently saw how problematic Orr is without a large population of players.

@Endless Soul.5178 said:

@Edgy McEdgelord.4790 said:

@Hybarf Tics.2048 said:Has season 4 even had a Jumping puzzle?

So long as they arent like the Ember bay and draconis mons i would love to see more jumping puzzles. If they are like those two, then no thank you

@Hybarf Tics.2048 said:I love the new map it feels more like a full map. The problem I have is that even if Anet innovates it also constantly leaves the good stuff behind which leaves me more and more disinterested in the game. If you leave it all behind it leaves the maps with mediocre activities all the time. Stuff that has disappeared so far are world bosses, dungeons, and recently jumping puzzles. Have I forgotten something?

The new stuff I love, gliding and the mounts and new somewhat improved underwater content like the new deep bottomless water section in Kourna Domain which I love exploring. The perfect GW 2 for me would be to keep the new and bring back the old then I think Anet would assure itself the best MMORPG title for years to come.

Its about balance, we need old and new. One thought I thought we might have seen this episode was an expansion of bigger Joko invasions into the next tier of maps in core Tyria, further expanding the attacks, plus the new map. I was picturing them each episode move those attacks up into higher and higher zones. Give us the feel teh war was on. The Scarlet zone invasions had that feel and thought they were building to that. Living story is about good cooking, you want something that is new that is built upon layers of flavors.

@Boogiepop Void.6473 said:I'm very much concerned for content in general. I was floored when, at the release of PoF, they announced that they were segmenting the game. This meant that EVERYTHING added in HoT and LS3, from gliding to lavatubes to grappling vines, can NEVER EVER be reused. No new map can EVER make use of these elements ever again. This represents a HUGE waste of ideas and resources. Instead of truly expanding the game, it turns it into a bunch of mini-sequels.

I'm very concerned that this is going to continue into the next expansion, with all mount content being abandoned in favor of whatever the new mechanic is then. We just got the beetle and it's not even clear if we are going to keep seeing content for it going forward. Are the breakable walls in Kourna the only breakable walls that will ever exist? We just don't know.

Part of this is again the issue of segmentation. By forcing the LS episodes to stand alone, it makes it so they can't put content in later episodes that uses content from earlier ones. Even the lava tubes in LS3 ran into problems with forcing people who missed it to go out and pay money to get Episode 2 so they would have access. What they really need to do is give all the LS episodes to people if they qualify for one of them. Then they at least know that everyone has all the same stuff within a season.

I was a bit saddened when some of the other movements methods weren't included in future areas. PoF should have updrafts that weren't required but were present. the vine movement skill should have limited use outside of Draconis Mons. The vine and gliding were an amazing and fun compliments to each other. Since I try and look at from multiple sides I could see that they saw the combo as too powerfull outside of a map designed for it. But I could have seen a consumable item that we could buy via currencies (zone and other) that had limited charges would have also been an awesome ongoing demand for the map and still keep it limited in other maps. To me LS3 still has a lot of demand since there are a number of consumables and gear that can be acquired from them, LS4 needs to follow that trend, IMO. Tying Plaguedoctor to it was a smart step.