My ideas on how the rest of Living World Season 4 will continue

So, first off, this is all based on the idea that LWS4 will have 7 episodes, based on comment made b That_Shaman back when episode 1 came out.

So far we have had-Episode 1: We go to Istan, help out the Sunspears, and discover that Joko is back and looking for something-Episode 2: We go to the Sandsweapt Isles, find the Olmakhan, and help them fight off the Inquest, and discover Joko has taken the plague from them.-Episode 3: We go to Kourna, and assemble our allies to stop Joko.

From here on I predict that-Episode 4: We will go to Jahai, and the area around it, to deal with matters involving the Order of Shadows, their plans for post-Joko leadership, and the original Order of Whispers that are still active somewhere presumably in the old Chantry of Secrets.-Episodes 5 and 6 are a bit harder to pin down, but I expect one will take place in and around the old Sunspear Sanctuary in Kourna, and likely involve more centaur related lore. The other might take place in the Barbarous Shore, and deal with the Corsairs, or go into the Sulfurous Wastelands south of the Bone Palace for reasons I can't immediately think of, but this is Anet, and they can mcguffin anything.-Episode 7 will take us to the unnamed mountain region were Kralkatorik is roosting out on, and this will be where we get all of our allies from PoF and the previous 6 episodes together to take down Kralkatorik.

OFC this is just a basic summary. There will e plenty of things going on during all this like changes to Aurene after eating Joko, finding out how to make Aurene able to replace Kralkatorik, and some sort of foreshadowing to what the next expansion will be.

Jahai and its surroundings are a good candidate for EP4 because:-it's a branded region and I feel that we will deal with more Kralkatorrik stuff.-historically, this is a pivotal landmark in Elona and an excellent place to deal with the aftermath of the ruler's demise.

However I think there will be six episodes.

alot of ppl seem to forget we still have to fix the zhaitan/mordremoth fallout before going after kralk.

@derd.6413 said:alot of ppl seem to forget we still have to fix the zhaitan/mordremoth fallout before going after kralk.

I'm not so sure. I think that's one thing that could use a little clarification from a story perspective. The world seemed to unravel from the death of those two to the point that we know we can't kill one more elder dragon or it's done for. But it seems like that process has stopped. It seems implied to me at least that it's chaotic but still balanced enough that Mordremoth and Zhaitan's death isn't as pressing as Kralk and the fact that we can't just kill him until we have someone to replace him.

I think the Kesho cinematic was a bit confusing in the sense that it talked about Vlast and Aurene filling these voids, but right now it seems like Aurene just needs to replace Kralk and keep the world at least somewhat held together.

But I'm also confused by the whole Kesho timeline. I mean, Vlast was born long before Zhaitain was even killed wasn't he? So, how is this cinematic acting like they had all this knowledge of Zhaitain and Modremoth's death before it even happened to the point that they had a plan to replace them? Am I missing something?

@"cptaylor.2670" said:I'm not so sure. I think that's one thing that could use a little clarification from a story perspective. The world seemed to unravel from the death of those two to the point that we know we can't kill one more elder dragon or it's done for. But it seems like that process has stopped. It seems implied to me at least that it's chaotic but still balanced enough that Mordremoth and Zhaitan's death isn't as pressing as Kralk and the fact that we can't just kill him until we have someone to replace him.

I think the Kesho cinematic was a bit confusing in the sense that it talked about Vlast and Aurene filling these voids, but right now it seems like Aurene just needs to replace Kralk and keep the world at least somewhat held together.

But I'm also confused by the whole Kesho timeline. I mean, Vlast was born long before Zhaitain was even killed wasn't he? So, how is this cinematic acting like they had all this knowledge of Zhaitain and Modremoth's death before it even happened to the point that they had a plan to replace them? Am I missing something?

I think the devs clarified this at one point. In essence, the plan was to eventually kill off the elder dragons and immediately replace them with Vlast, Aurene and even potentially Glint (had she survived her encounter with Kralkatorrik). So essentially, kill an elder dragon and 5 minutes later have one of the friendly dragons replace it. That was a plan for way in the future, which by then would have meant that Aurene and Vlast would have possibly become elder dragon sized, or large enough to absorb a dragon's entire domain. But with Zhaitan and Mordremoth dying way before Vlast or Aurene were ready to replace one or both of them, the world was thrown for a loop because we're down two crucial elements to balance the magic of the world.

Right now, the world is at a very precarious tipping point. We can't afford to kill any more elder dragons without destroying the planet. It's stable enough that the world isn't immediately screwed, but if one elder dragon were to acquire way more magic than the others, the balance would still be upset and potentially lead to a world ending scenario. Kralkatorrik is I think on the verge of becoming a world ending problem, especially with how Jormag and Primordus had some of their magic stolen which was eventually fed directly into Kralkatorrik, shifting the scales massively towards being unbalanced to catastrophic degrees.

This is personal speculation, but the most ideal scenario is for Aurene to grow up ASAP and take her place as the fifth elder dragon, and then for her to spawn some children the way Glint did, and have those children then replace the current elder dragons and the final empty spot. She got some magical steroids from Balthazar which accelerated her growth by a lot, but we'll have to wait and see if/when she becomes elder dragon sized or elder dragon powered to find out what happens.

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@derd.6413 said:alot of ppl seem to forget we still have to fix the zhaitan/mordremoth fallout before going after kralk.

personal head canon is that because zhaitan and mord were on opposite sides of the magic spectrum they slowed down the process but didn't end it and besides, just because you can't see the symptoms doesn't mean you're not sick.

I think the Kesho cinematic was a bit confusing in the sense that it talked about Vlast and Aurene filling these voids, but right now it seems like Aurene just needs to replace Kralk and keep the world at least somewhat held together.

also it didn't say aurene and vlast but glint's offspring. all of them, and glint had alot of eggs in gw1 and there are probably candidates outside of glint's legacy. (the pale tree is also a purified elder dragon minion)

But I'm also confused by the whole Kesho timeline. I mean, Vlast was born long before Zhaitain was even killed wasn't he? So, how is this cinematic acting like they had all this knowledge of Zhaitain and Modremoth's death before it even happened to the point that they had a plan to replace them? Am I missing something?

as for the how did they know about the dragon deaths? who knows.

from re-watching it a couple of times i think it's an exalted speaking and not a forgotten. (since they refer to the forgotten in third while also referring to a 'we', the speaker lacks a hiss like we know the forgotten have and a couple of more minor clues)

@derd.6413 said:

also it didn't say aurene and vlast but glint's offspring. all of them, and glint had alot of eggs in gw1

She did, but through S2 and HoT, Ogden/the Exalted clarified that Vlast and Aurene's egg are the only ones that survived. We don't know what happened to the rest, but if the caretakers Glint appointed to watch over her children say there aren't any left, I'm inclined to believe them.

If I had to guess how LWS4 will lead into the next story, given that when Kormir took in Abbadon's power, it still released enough magic into the world to cause Primordus to stir, I suspect that, even if Aurene replaces Kralkatorik, enough of his magic will escape to invigorate either bubbles, or begin Primordus/Jormag's reawakening.

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:If I had to guess how LWS4 will lead into the next story, given that when Kormir took in Abbadon's power, it still released enough magic into the world to cause Primordus to stir, I suspect that, even if Aurene replaces Kralkatorik, enough of his magic will escape to invigorate either bubbles, or begin Primordus/Jormag's reawakening.

I imagine either primordus and the ring of Fire’s surrounding water or jormag and the far shiver peak lake will be a source of considerable water content with major improvements to help prepare for a DSD expansion afterwards

@Fenom.9457 said:I imagine either primordus and the ring of Fire’s surrounding water or jormag and the far shiver peak lake will be a source of considerable water content with major improvements to help prepare for a DSD expansion afterwardsI imagine that the DSD will be before either Jormag or Primordus TBH.

Given that the dragon we faced after Zhaitan was effectively his opposite, and how Jormag and Primordus are opposites, leaving the crystal dragon and the water dragon as opposites, it makes sense we would go after the DSD next after killing Kralk, leaving Primordus and Jormag for the end. Primordus especially is likely to be the last dragon we fight.

I also doubt Primordus will still be under the Ring of Fire when we do decide to hunt him down.

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@Fenom.9457 said:I imagine either primordus and the ring of Fire’s surrounding water or jormag and the far shiver peak lake will be a source of considerable water content with major improvements to help prepare for a DSD expansion afterwardsI imagine that the DSD will be before either Jormag or Primordus TBH.

Yeah, I definitely see DSD being before Jormag and Primordus given that we just put them to sleep and are working on Kralk now. But I also like the idea of Kunavang or whatever possibly taking the place of the deep sea dragon. I kind of imagine Kunavang as being a champion of the DSD, and that we have to use the forgotten ritual to free his will like they did with Glint.

Who knows though. The one thing I do find strange is all of the risen dragons. Where did they come from? There's potential for us to explore some other region of Tyria that was previously unknown and has tons of possible candidates for filling the roles of some of these dragons. It seems odd that the exalted wouldn't have known about them and considered them as a possibility instead of solely relying on Glint's offspring. But as much as I want to explore Cantha, one good thing about exploring some of these other areas like the areas east of Ascalon, the Isles of Janthir, the Woodland Cascades, is that we have the potential to see so many creatures and assets we've never seen before because they're completely new.

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@Fenom.9457 said:I imagine either primordus and the ring of Fire’s surrounding water or jormag and the far shiver peak lake will be a source of considerable water content with major improvements to help prepare for a DSD expansion afterwardsI imagine that the DSD will be before either Jormag or Primordus TBH.

I mean, I would prefer that. My all time most wanted expansion is either deep see or woodland cascades, so I really do hope the sea is next

@"cptaylor.2670" said:I definitely see DSD being before Jormag and Primordus given that we just put them to sleep and are working on Kralk now. But I also like the idea of Kunavang or whatever possibly taking the place of the deep sea dragon. I kind of imagine Kunavang as being a champion of the DSD, and that we have to use the forgotten ritual to free his will like they did with Glint.

Who knows though. The one thing I do find strange is all of the risen dragons. Where did they come from? There's potential for us to explore some other region of Tyria that was previously unknown and has tons of possible candidates for filling the roles of some of these dragons. It seems odd that the exalted wouldn't have known about them and considered them as a possibility instead of solely relying on Glint's offspring. But as much as I want to explore Cantha, one good thing about exploring some of these other areas like the areas east of Ascalon, the Isles of Janthir, the Woodland Cascades, is that we have the potential to see so many creatures and assets we've never seen before because they're completely new.I always assumed that, much like how the other dragons could raise dragon shaped champions out of the elements they controlled, so did Zhaitan.

I presumed they were much like the Risen Abominations, a large collection of corpses animated in dragon form.

@"Fenom.9457" said:I mean, I would prefer that. My all time most wanted expansion is either deep see or woodland cascades, so I really do hope the sea is nextI would presume that a DSD expansion would be near land, either Cantha, or the "Wetland" area that we saw humans had contact with in the past. Anet did make underwater combat somewhat better, but an entire expansion in the deeps would be terrible.

@"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:So, first off, this is all based on the idea that LWS4 will have 7 episodes, based on comment made b That_Shaman back when episode 1 came out.

So far we have had-Episode 1: We go to Istan, help out the Sunspears, and discover that Joko is back and looking for something-Episode 2: We go to the Sandsweapt Isles, find the Olmakhan, and help them fight off the Inquest, and discover Joko has taken the plague from them.-Episode 3: We go to Kourna, and assemble our allies to stop Joko.

From here on I predict that-Episode 4: We will go to Jahai, and the area around it, to deal with matters involving the Order of Shadows, their plans for post-Joko leadership, and the original Order of Whispers that are still active somewhere presumably in the old Chantry of Secrets.-Episodes 5 and 6 are a bit harder to pin down, but I expect one will take place in and around the old Sunspear Sanctuary in Kourna, and likely involve more centaur related lore. The other might take place in the Barbarous Shore, and deal with the Corsairs, or go into the Sulfurous Wastelands south of the Bone Palace for reasons I can't immediately think of, but this is Anet, and they can mcguffin anything.-Episode 7 will take us to the unnamed mountain region were Kralkatorik is roosting out on, and this will be where we get all of our allies from PoF and the previous 6 episodes together to take down Kralkatorik.

OFC this is just a basic summary. There will e plenty of things going on during all this like changes to Aurene after eating Joko, finding out how to make Aurene able to replace Kralkatorik, and some sort of foreshadowing to what the next expansion will be.

We could in episode 4 but more likely 5 head up to the charr homelands, due that tainted magic she ate from Joko. Perhaps she needs be around some kralkatorrik magic to assist in healing her and possibly put her in a stasis while she absorbs more ley line energy, so she can take on Kralkatorrik magic at the end of the season.

During that time, we might get some more knowledge on Kralkatorrik. We did have those weird map edits way up in the Charr Homelands.

@"Fenom.9457" said:I mean, I would prefer that. My all time most wanted expansion is either deep see or woodland cascades, so I really do hope the sea is nextI would presume that a DSD expansion would be near land, either Cantha, or the "Wetland" area that we saw humans had contact with in the past. Anet did make underwater combat somewhat better, but an entire expansion in the deeps would be terrible.

I think most likely they'd invent a new archipelago in the ocean to give substantial land to the expansion. Maybe as well a pressurized largos city, so we can walk normally in it, but its underwater. Hopefully total underwater cities too. I made a post on another thread about an exploded bloodstone making an entire archipelago of wild magic and the DSD would target it for obvious reasons. The "unending ocean" is a broad name, like "tyria" and "elona", and while those continental titles have smaller regions inside it like "Maguuma" or "Kourna", the ocean has none. So we'd get labels like those and one region would be give in the expansion.

@Fenom.9457 said:

@Fenom.9457 said:I mean, I would prefer that. My all time most wanted expansion is either deep see or woodland cascades, so I really do hope the sea is nextI would presume that a DSD expansion would be near land, either Cantha, or the "Wetland" area that we saw humans had contact with in the past. Anet did make underwater combat somewhat better, but an entire expansion in the deeps would be terrible.

Could tie that same land mass to the battle isles too.

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

snip

I think the devs clarified this at one point. In essence, the plan was to eventually kill off the elder dragons and immediately replace them with Vlast, Aurene and even potentially Glint (had she survived her encounter with Kralkatorrik). So essentially, kill an elder dragon and 5 minutes later have one of the friendly dragons replace it. That was a plan for way in the future, which by then would have meant that Aurene and Vlast would have possibly become elder dragon sized, or large enough to absorb a dragon's entire domain. But with Zhaitan and Mordremoth dying way before Vlast or Aurene were ready to replace one or both of them, the world was thrown for a loop because we're down two crucial elements to balance the magic of the world.

It occurs to me that there may be yet another being that can replace an Elder Dragon. There's one very powerful, but still compassionate dragon minion floating around, since the beginning of the game.

The Pale Tree.

Maybe I'm way out on a limb, here, but just because she's not a dragon in shape, doesn't mean she can't take on the portfolio of, say, Mordremoth. She already has - courtesy of her origins, no doubt - a great deal of power in the same ways that Mordremoth did - life, and the mind. Does the way that Mordremoth whispered into the minds of his children, the Sylvari, remind anyone else of the Dream of Dreams? She's already survived a full-force mental attack from Mordy, albeit barely. I think she could take up the mantle.

Aurene, of course, being a descendant of Kralkatorrik's minion, is a natural to take over his portfolio. She's also consumed Joko's magic, which is heavily tied to death and undeath. Perhaps she could take on the portfolio of both Kralkatorrik and Zhaitan.

So, we may well have two beings floating around right now, who could take the places of two or three of the Elder Dragons - not nearly as destructive, and hopefully benign.

@galen ubal.2807 said:

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

snip

I think the devs clarified this at one point. In essence, the plan was to eventually kill off the elder dragons and immediately replace them with Vlast, Aurene and even potentially Glint (had she survived her encounter with Kralkatorrik). So essentially, kill an elder dragon and 5 minutes later have one of the friendly dragons replace it. That was a plan for way in the future, which by then would have meant that Aurene and Vlast would have possibly become elder dragon sized, or large enough to absorb a dragon's entire domain. But with Zhaitan and Mordremoth dying way before Vlast or Aurene were ready to replace one or both of them, the world was thrown for a loop because we're down two crucial elements to balance the magic of the world.

Yeah, I definitely don't see why not. With her taking the place of Mordremoth, and Aurene the place of Kralk, I'm not sure who would take the place of Zhaitan though. One person had suggested one of the ghostly king dudes in Siren's Landing, but I don't know about that. lol

@galen ubal.2807 said:It occurs to me that there may be yet another being that can replace an Elder Dragon. There's one very powerful, but still compassionate dragon minion floating around, since the beginning of the game.

The Pale Tree.

Maybe I'm way out on a limb, here, but just because she's not a dragon in shape, doesn't mean she can't take on the portfolio of, say, Mordremoth. She already has - courtesy of her origins, no doubt - a great deal of power in the same ways that Mordremoth did - life, and the mind. Does the way that Mordremoth whispered into the minds of his children, the Sylvari, remind anyone else of the Dream of Dreams? She's already survived a full-force mental attack from Mordy, albeit barely. I think she could take up the mantle.

Aurene, of course, being a descendant of Kralkatorrik's minion, is a natural to take over his portfolio. She's also consumed Joko's magic, which is heavily tied to death and undeath. Perhaps she could take on the portfolio of both Kralkatorrik and Zhaitan.

So, we may well have two beings floating around right now, who could take the places of two or three of the Elder Dragons - not nearly as destructive, and hopefully benign.

I know for a fact that the pale tree as an elder dragon replacement has been discussed on the forums, but I have no idea about the conclusions drawn. The Pale Tree is a purified Blighting tree and thus doesn't really entail being a dragon minion at all, but is a producer of dragon minions. That's about all I remember from the debate, but I could be wrong. My own personal speculation is that, while possible (considering Mordremoth's unconventional shape), it may need actual dragons and not simply dragon minions.

(Also mordremoths domain is plant and mind, not life as a whole, and the connection between Moredremoth and the Dream of Dreams was directly confirmed in the final instance of Heart of Thorns when Trahearne opened a portal to the dream for the commander and allies to take Moredremoth down).

As for who could replace what, there's speculation that Shiny and Kuunavang are still out there, and if they are former minions of elder dragons, it may be possible for them to rise up to the challenge and become benign elder dragons themselves. I had actually forgotten about them when I made my previous post. However, I don't think it really matters what domains are taken by what entity, since Vlast and Aurene are both crystal dragons and were meant to replace two elder dragons, and there's only one elder dragon of crystal, with Glint herself possibly being the one to take Kralkatorrik's place.

EDIT: Konig corrected me on the fact that blighting trees ARE dragon minions, so ignore that specific line.

I kind of wonder if the weapon Vlast spoke of (staff of the Mists?) changes the rules of the game. Maybe you can use it to fundamentally rework the mechanics of the All, go from six pillars to five or ten or one.

If they do go after DSD soon, I'm kind of hoping for an Innsmouth-esque area. We can even have a proper invasion of a new area that puts us on the defensive. Work up the paranoia angle by having some long-trusted allies turning out to be sleeper agents of the DSD. Eventually, the DSD will come ashore believing total domination and only be defeated by an unexpected turn of good fortune or, perhaps, DSD is killed by an opportunistic Jormag looking for an edge.

@castlemanic.3198 said:The Pale Tree is a purified Blighting tree and thus doesn't really entail being a dragon minion at all, but is a producer of dragon minions.

Blighting Trees are dragon minions...

But yes, it's unclear whether it can be any dragon minion given sufficient magic, or specifically dragons. Dragon minions, like dragons, do consume magic, but they give them to their Elder Dragon (or in post-Zhaitan case, to dragons like Tequatl).

if we are going after Bubbles, then we will need a new mount, ships, and a 'fatigue' system like WoW

@crepuscular.9047 said:if we are going after Bubbles, then we will need a new mount, ships, and a 'fatigue' system like WoW

More than one underwater mount

@Tyson.5160 said:We could in episode 4 but more likely 5 head up to the charr homelands, due that tainted magic she ate from Joko. Perhaps she needs be around some kralkatorrik magic to assist in healing her and possibly put her in a stasis while she absorbs more ley line energy, so she can take on Kralkatorrik magic at the end of the season.

During that time, we might get some more knowledge on Kralkatorrik. We did have those weird map edits way up in the Charr Homelands.I've considered that in the past due to the obvious narrative benefits we might gain from visiting the area where Kralkatorik slept for 10,000 years.

Its the only real non-Elonian area I cold see them taking us too in this LW season, if we leave Elona at all.

Though I would prefer they stay in Elona and use the remaining episodes to cover the Order of Shadows, Corsairs, and possibly some hidden Elonian centaur tribe, instead of spending an episode in Charr lands.