Is condition damage out of control?

Is condition damage too dominant and meta warping?

No. Moar Dots. Throw Moar Dots.

Power can one shot on many builds. Condi can melt you quickly, but not in 1.5sec. Powercreepage is real, not condi.

Only when roaming, blobs are still power mostly. It comes mostly from Dire/Trailblazer stats.

Depending on what you're playing it may seem that way, but remember, combat in this game is rock paper scissors. Add some condi cleanse or resistance to your build and it should be easy to deal with. But to do that you may have to sacrifice offense, so tanky builds will stomp you. Or sacrifice defense against power builds which will then stomp you. You gotta pick your poison; every build has its weakness.

I don't think we should really ever be looking at things in this manner and instead be seeing how many counters power/condition based builds have and how easily accessible those counters are.

I will say though that dealing with a mass of scourges in a blob, feels like I'm being forced to lick Satan's taint.

Edit: I'm rather indifferent, only voted yes because of my feelings on scourges in a blob.

Condition damage is fine, but condition application ease is stupid with scourge.

I do not believe condition damage itself is the problem - perhaps looking into certain class builds/traits and their ease of the re-application and also covering condi's may need to be looked at, but overall I think it is ok.

Some types are atm in some game types. Bleed is ok as well as burning things like poison scale a bit too hard with its added effect and base tick torment and confusion are comply op in pvp format but worthless in pve.

There just not enofe UI in gw2 to tell you not to move or not to use skills so you tend to keep moving and keep using skills even though it is your death. I am not even sure how you can give the players a good tell that you should not be moving or using skills or if that a real thing you could ask a player to do in a pvp setting.

Spam in general is out of control if you compare it to base GW2. Not just condition damage. Meaning extremes in all directions have been pushed because everything occurs faster (defense/offense/condi/power/boonoutput/blocks/evade/etc.).

D:

I hate conditions, but I think it's fine as it is right now.One shot skills, one shot combos, immunity to damage, are ruining the game more for me these days. I hate this meta.

Conditions are fine, if anything they're still inferior to power damage overall. People are just doing that thing where they conflate individual condition builds with condition damage as a concept.

People get real mad at scourges and mirages, and occasionally thieves, but how many condition builds do you see the other 2/3 of the professions in the game running?

No condition damage is not out of control. The way elite specialisations are designed is out of control. The power creep started on June 23rd 2015 is entirely at fault.

No.

I don't like condi but it's been gutted pretty hard in wvw. Scourge could start seeing buffs to its condi damage.

@Xenash.1245 said:I will say though that dealing with a mass of scourges in a blob, feels like I'm being forced to lick Satan's taint.

Edit: I'm rather indifferent, only voted yes because of my feelings on scourges in a blob.

Then it's not condi that's the problem. Because if it is, we'd never see power builds and a condition ranger or engineer would at least see the light of day in zergs. It's the class imbalance of the scourge. But hey, at least it's a bit toned down now.

Scourge, Chrono/Mirage, and Daredevil are really the only specs with strong condi builds. The Scourge builds are good for mid to large scale fights, but suck at roaming. On the other hand, Chrono/Mirage and Daredevil builds excel at small scale/roaming, but suck in larger fights. There might be other professions with decent condi builds, but they're pretty much all roaming builds that are out shined by their power-based counterparts.

No, some of the direct damage skills are out of control. Conditions can be cleansed off, and condition damage can be healed. Against 10k+ stealth or surprise attacks there is not much healing / cleansing possible.Side note: For Elementalists: Spect earth magic and trait Diamond Skin and use Ether Renewal as healing skill, if possible improve it further with Soothing Disruption.

In zergs, it's basically a Condi-Spam problem.When Conditions were "precious" there were a lot more builds able to counter conditions.In the beginning, shout-warriors to remove 2-3 conditions every 20s were enough.Later on, we were relying on heal-mages and druids that had something like cleaning all conditions once every avatar or 1 conditions per second in the big water field.Then resistance spamming demons appeared and to counter that the application of conditions was increased.Back then every frontline zerg group had a rev on mallyx or that group was instantly dead.Now there is corruption spam and most players in a zerg appear to be Scourges with pulsing condition application. The counter is supporting firebrands with pulsing resistance fields and cleansing. Even with that strong amount of condition-counter in F1 and F2, if you play like a core-guard, your group also drops fast. Another counter is conversion-scrapper and heal-scrapper with an absurd amount of permanent 4 condition-clears per second or 7 per second in a burst.

Of course, there is a problem with the meteor shower and rev-hammer crits that are absurdly high for the little effort they need... But in my opinion, the condition spam is the main problem of our zergs at the moment...

I voted yes because all I do is roam. In small scale its risk is far too low for how high the reward is. It doesn't have to 1hit someone to be considered high reward...

@"Dediggefedde.4961" said:In zergs, it's basically a Condi-Spam problem.When Conditions were "precious" there were a lot more builds able to counter conditions.In the beginning, shout-warriors to remove 2-3 conditions every 20s were enough.Later on, we were relying on heal-mages and druids that had something like cleaning all conditions once every avatar or 1 conditions per second in the big water field.Then resistance spamming demons appeared and to counter that the application of conditions was increased.Back then every frontline zerg group had a rev on mallyx or that group was instantly dead.Now there is corruption spam and most players in a zerg appear to be Scourges with pulsing condition application. The counter is supporting firebrands with pulsing resistance fields and cleansing. Even with that strong amount of condition-counter in F1 and F2, if you play like a core-guard, your group also drops fast. Another counter is conversion-scrapper and heal-scrapper with an absurd amount of permanent 4 condition-clears per second or 7 per second in a burst.

Of course, there is a problem with the meteor shower and rev-hammer crits that are absurdly high for the little effort they need... But in my opinion, the condition spam is the main problem of our zergs at the moment...

You're correct that condies and cleanse increased over the years. But so did boons, damage, healing, ... literally eveything else in the game. And you didn't account for that.Compared to vanilla GW2, everything in the current meta is really really OP. It's called powercreep and it's definitely a thing in this game.That does not in any way reason that condi is OP or not compared to power, hybrid, cleanse or other types of damage.

There's a lot of mistakes in your opinion. Heal mages aka tempests cleansed a LOT when played correctly. Druids were never part of the zerg meta because they lacked cleanse. "Condition counter in F1" there is no condi cleanse or counter in F1.

Your post says NOTHING about the comparative balance between condi and other types of damage. You compare to a meta of 5 years ago, and state everything is OP. This is a sentiment that I think many players agree that skills do too much in the game at the moment. But it's incredibly misleading and useless when discussing the current metagame and if condi / power are balanced compared to one another. You did NOT in any way analyse power vs condi or the balance of condi vs cleanse.

The question is if condi is out of control. Not if there's powercreep or if powercreep are out of control. These are different and you should be clear about the point you're trying to make.

@Xenash.1245 said:I don't think we should really ever be looking at things in this manner and instead be seeing how many counters power/condition based builds have and how easily accessible those counters are.

I will say though that dealing with a mass of scourges in a blob, feels like I'm being forced to lick Satan's taint.

Edit: I'm rather indifferent, only voted yes because of my feelings on scourges in a blob.

More than 50% of the damage in the blobs I play with is power. Opinion?

power damage is stronger bcause of the way damaging conditions are designed.both can be avoided on application the same, but condis can easier be cleasned or negated with the way too powerful boon resistance.this alone is a reason for me not to play condition builds, maybe hybrid but pure condition is just stupid.

on the other hand soft cc is stronger on condition builds but hard CC is not stronger on power builds. i would like to see hard cc be scaling on feroricty. and overall hard and soft cc nerfed. then you would end up on ~same hard cc on power build and on ~ current base soft cc for condi builds aswell as low cc for support builds.

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Xenash.1245 said:I don't think we should really ever be looking at things in this manner and instead be seeing how many counters power/condition based builds have and how easily accessible those counters are.

I will say though that dealing with a mass of scourges in a blob, feels like I'm being forced to lick Satan's taint.

Edit: I'm rather indifferent, only voted yes because of my feelings on scourges in a blob.

Lots of scourges are moving to Celestial/Grieving instead of staying Trailblazer because of the low efficiency of conditions on Zergs. You still run corruption to get rid of the boons tho, but those condition aren't there to deal damage.

Honestly, the only condition user that I think that need to be toned down is Mirage, but since it's only part of small scale, which is a small niche of WvW, I guess Mirage will never see the nerfbat swinging it's way.

The answer to many post on this tends to be "you dont bring enough condi cleanse", that is the very definition of meta warping, it is never enough, you have to bring everything you can fit.

In my opinion the main issue with mirage and similar condi small scale builds is the efficiency of dire / trailblazer stats. That said condi mirage is slightly overtuned in general, including PvP, and I assume that this build in particular will be nerfed (for PvP mainly.)Unfortunately, it'll remain to be exceptionally strong because trailblazer enables it and it'll be balanced for PvP.

About celestial : playing celestial allows you to go spite much more effectively - and if you use spite well then during fights you corrupt more than with curses. (Except one pushes, but who cares about one pushes). Trailblazer with spite just... doesn't really do the same. That has been giving celestial a real edge against trailblazer.

By all means guilds will cleanse the condies; but conditions most definitely do damage on zergs and condition damage is not bad as long as you know how to use it. The problem is players that think WvW is just mindless spam; if you mindlessly spam your condies they will get cleansed. If you can hit backliners, they rarely are capable of cleansing themselves and condies pressure them heavily (revs, weavers, ...). If you spike with other players, condi damage doesn't matter as much but the coordinated spike will put 5+ condies on players, which will not all get cleansed instantly. Having longer durations also forces your enemies to use more cleanses.

Half the zergs I see are full of random classes and heavily lack firebrands / other supports. Condies work wonders against them and trailblazer is probably still BiS against the average blob on EU. Only against more organised groups like WSR / vabbi / germans / guilds your stuff gets cleansed to a point where the power damage from cele wins over the added duration from trailblazer. But it's obviously more important to spec against the enemies that don't just bend over, give you bags and port to spawn.

Grieving is just cocky players stating they get away with stuff pretending it's meta. There is no point in running grieving over celestial other than boosting enemy rev / weaver DPS so you can show off your own. It's not worth the resources it requires.