Trying to make the Firebrand work...

I've been using my Guardian since day one, and have enjoyed the Dragonhunter set, but now, for a change, I'm trying to make the Firebrand work. Seems I'm doing it wrong, tho, since I'm basically paper and no DPS (might be relative, tho). Or is this just a defensive class? Anyway, are there any tips, tricks, pointers, or recommended build sites I can go to for info? Not looking for someone to build it for me...just point me in the right direction.

@"Graymalkyn.8076" said:Or is this just a defensive class? Anyway, are there any tips, tricks, pointers, or recommended build sites I can go to for info? Not looking for someone to build it for me...just point me in the right direction.

The firebrand is a support specialization. You don't have the best power damage, but you can use condition damage to distract the enemy while healing allies which is why firebrand is the best support in the game. The firebrand uses tomes instead of virtues. The tomes act similar to the elementalists' attunements. You activate a tome and you get five different skills.

Tome of Justice gives you four condition damage skills and one CC skill.Tome of Resolve gives you three healing skills and two boon skills. The auto attack is a very powerful healing skill.Tome of Courage gives you three boon skills, one projectile reflect skill and one stun breaker.

For builds, you can either make one of your own or check Metabattle.

If you're doing PvE, go to SC or Discretize.

If you simply used your Dragonhunter set for your Firebrand, I can see why you are struggling. Firebrand traits has the most synergy with condition damage and support, rather than direct damage. Even then, most of your burst comes from your Tome of Justice (with priority on Skills 2 > 5 > 4 > 1). Considering that your Tome of Justice resets after every kill, you'll be killing mobs quickly.

Beyond that, it would probably be helpful to at least try to describe what specifically you're struggling with.

Check Metabattle for Open World builds, they are frankly better than SC's or Discretize's DPS builds if you intend to play casually. I took a look at the OW Fb build in there, and even the budget variant looks like it'll get the job done. DPS isn't all that important, you need to survive getting ganged up on as well.

Again with metabattle. Play what you find fun. I tried this build just for fun cause why not?

It's actually insanelly fun. Does it push dps boundary? Nope. But can walk over champions literally no stress. Feels great stomping over everything. But ofc you can also stick to meta and care only about dps metter. Many does, but for me being able to complete content > high dps. I'd rather finish raid or fractal slower but surly than seeing pplz typing GG while lying on the floor.

Since no one has been able to aptly describe the disconnect, I'll do it. Firebrand is best described as having "Reflected power scaling". This means (individually) each skill or effect is weak against a focal target (either multiple targets attacking you, or you attacking a single target solo); but when shared, the total power of these skills rapidly multiply. Druid is the only other Spec designed to work this way, and shares many of the same skewed "weaknesses" that causes confusion among solo focused players. But a key difference is that Druid enhances other players, where as Firebrand bounces their potential off of groups (either enemies or allies). This exists in both their Offensive and Supportive skills, and you WILL notice a major performance difference with more allies around you.

On the offensive side, Ashes of the Just applies the same level of burning each, but with 5 people to share the effect on, thats 5 times the amount of Burning in total. Against a common target, thats a huge amount of burn stacks getting applied at once. On the more personal side, Justice's Passive goes by number of hits to proc.... so the more targets your attacks are hitting, the more frequent it triggers. When combined with Permeating Wrath (which makes it AOE burning), you're actively multiplying the total damage output on each target, as well as hitting them all at the same time. Paired with Axe, this makes the Auto Attack apply 7 stacks of burning each chain, as long as you're cleaving 3 targets.

On the Defensive side its interesting as well. Most AOE Support/Healing skills have weaker "per target" output and long cool downs to compensate for the fact its affecting multiple allies. Firebrand skills are Mid-low in terms of overall impact, but can be triggered frequently enough to act as both sustain or burst as needed. And while tomes might monopolize a Firebrand's skills while activated, their effects are strong enough that it might be worth waiting a few seconds to make a well timed move, rather then just dump the attacks as quickly as possible. Especially with Tome of Courage, given the sheer insanity its capable of sustaining through if the skills are timed well.

Firebrand is more then capable of being an Offensive Spec.... but its NOT designed to function well as a Solo build. However, its possible to make it work! The above build is pretty brilliant (I might try it myself later), but I've had ample success with Celestial based gear for a well rounded Open world build. I already had Cele gear from the previous WvW meta, and was kind of surprised how well it works with Condition damage. In fact, I've been running it in WvW to act as a Supplemental Firebrand that can slot into a zerg comp, and change roles as needed. Celestial armor with Durability runes, Celestial Trinkets, Vipers Axe/Shield, and Minstrels Staff. I also carry a set of Minstrel Trinkets if I need to be a healing Firebrand. Barrier Scourges are common on my server, so the raw healing isn't as important. The Choice of Vipers on Axe/Sh is boost the burn damage on Justice, and gives me a good Pull skill for mopping up. While I'll camp the Staff if I have to play Support role. Swapping to mace is not a problem, and my shield is legendary, so I can stat swap if needed.

For Open World I run a modified Burn Guardian build. Celes offers decent all around stats, and FB can make good use of all of them. Damage is middling, and burst potential isn't very high, but you have enough sustain from your defense stats to more then handle fights with trash mobs. Burn damage is also really strong against trash, and getting them to group up is a great way to clear them quickly. Fighting Single Elites is where you start to have problems, but you can still manage. Champ fights are difficult solo, but even 1 or 2 people with you really lets your abilities shine. Since I tend to gravitate toward Group events, having the Support stats mixed in can let you keep pugs alive... and those who are smart enough to realize you're there will very much appreciate it. Especially in AOE heavy fights where personal defenses can tap out really fast. And in the trash heavy metas, Tome of Justice is almost never on cool down. And this was just me recycling gear I already had.

Heres the Open world Cele build if your interested. I wouldn't go out your way to make it... but it was a good recycling of WvW gear I already had

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAn+fn8ABFBjVCBOCDkCjlACzKA8AeT7R0LaHNbB9gmQA-jxhAQBoR5npU/BAPAA/t/Q0OIAQSJIA1LAA-e

@"Rhadament.3752" said:Again with metabattle. Play what you find fun. I tried this build just for fun cause why not?

It's actually insanelly fun. Does it push dps boundary? Nope. But can walk over champions literally no stress. Feels great stomping over everything. But ofc you can also stick to meta and care only about dps metter. Many does, but for me being able to complete content > high dps. I'd rather finish raid or fractal slower but surly than seeing pplz typing GG while lying on the floor.

Also requires some very expensive (30+g each) sigils in order to achieve its full potential. It works without those sigils, but you won't be able to maintain perma protection, and your quickness uptime will suffer.

Full vipers for facts and raids, full dire for open world with some vipers Trinkets, balthazar runes and smoldering sigil. Typical burn firebrand. You will just walk in the park burning everything.

@Quarktastic.1027 said:

@"Rhadament.3752" said:Again with metabattle. Play what you find fun. I tried this build just for fun cause why not?

It's actually insanelly fun. Does it push dps boundary? Nope. But can walk over champions literally no stress. Feels great stomping over everything. But ofc you can also stick to meta and care only about dps metter. Many does, but for me being able to complete content > high dps. I'd rather finish raid or fractal slower but surly than seeing pplz typing GG while lying on the floor.

True. I don't have all of them yet but even so it's still pretty good in open world. Also you are using cheaper cavalier armor so you can spend more on sigils. But generally i agree with what you said about sigils. As for gold if you decide to farm there are ways to get around 14g per hour easy way so you can get those sigils in few days of farming.

Here's link to that build in editor for all interested or you can just watch video. Build is shown at the end:http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAseRnkIC97gFBDuCBEEhl4Bb/leT7pWlg8VkqKA0AqXA-jxBGQBob/BAcKAWk6P2RfQVUCqElfA8JAAA-e

Got 1 Sigil of Concentration for now cause those are the ones you mentioned. Will prolly get 2nd one soon. Anyways let's be serious, how many classes can turn into such slaughterer. Maybe necro and that's about it. With everything else you need to be careful when fighting lot of enemies at once.

@"Rhadament.3752" said:Got 1 Sigil of Concentration for now cause those are the ones you mentioned. Will prolly get 2nd one soon. Anyways let's be serious, how many classes can turn into such slaughterer. Maybe necro and that's about it. With everything else you need to be careful when fighting lot of enemies at once.

I would argue that spellbreakers have a pretty easy go of things, even in full berserker gear. But then again, that Lord Hizen fellow could probably make brain surgery look easy.

Yeah. He's pretty good. And spellbreaker is good as well if you like warrior. Also consider that his firebrand could solo that event much easier as he said himself. Just those sigils make it more expensive to build. Tried to play warrior to make spellbreaker but didn't liked it. Didn't had AOE CC like blinds to deal with crowds and warrior basically fight in way that is kill before being killed. Even tough warrior looks very tanky on paper it's not so in reality. You either have good enough gear to do it or not. There is no middle gound where you can compensate with CCs or skill. On the good side as i said you either can do it or not, so if you have good enough gear you can just do it. Guardian just give me way more options. Also i could defeat enemies i couldn't with warrior. I mean at the level i met them not later when i was overleveled. When you are overleveled gear will carry you.

@"starlinvf.1358" said:Heres the Open world Cele build if your interested. I wouldn't go out your way to make it... but it was a good recycling of WvW gear I already had

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAn+fn8ABFBjVCBOCDkCjlACzKA8AeT7R0LaHNbB9gmQA-jxhAQBoR5npU/BAPAA/t/Q0OIAQSJIA1LAA-e

Thanks. I doubt I'll copy it exactly. Like you, I'll be recycling bits and pieces to get there. But I will definitely refer to it as I work my way there.

@Ojimaru.8970 said:If you simply used your Dragonhunter set for your Firebrand,

That's exactly what I was doing. I knew it wouldn't be optimal, but I was trying it for the overall feel. I wanted to see if I liked the set before going all out. But the idea that it's a strong condi set intrigues me. I love the scourge/reaper, so I can see where I will like this one as well.