Soulbeast Sucks

There's no other way of saying it, it's just an awful specialization. I knew this before I even tried it, to be perfectly honest. After watching this video I knew it'd be terrible. You can hear it in the developer's voice themselves. There's zero emotion, no enthusiasm whatsoever; just a casual statement that "it works well with some of the new pets we're adding", in a very matter- of-fact tone. Compare that to, say, the deadeye's introduction, ripe with enthusiasm.

If you're a PvE min-maxer you won't care about flavor, just numbers, but if you actually like your profession and want to use it in open world or PvP, Soulbeast is just terrible. One of the main issues comes down to design itself: giving each pet a unique set of abilities while merged makes no sense, to be honest. It would have been better to give each pet family a selection of abilities (F1 and F2) and have the F3 be common to each pet family. The reason I say this is because you can't select pet abilities themselves, so if you pick a pet you gotta consider their pre-existing abilities and the ones you get while merged. The end result ends up being too restrictive and underwhelming. Whereas if you could select two skills to use while merged, based on the pet family alone, then you have a choice and customization options: you pick a pet whose unmerged abilities you like, whose boons while merged you like, and take the merged abilities that best suit your playstyle and build. This is more in line with what GW is about: play what you like, how you like; as opposed to play what we give you, because that's all there is, which is what Soulbeast feels like.

The second issue I find is with pet swapping: CD on merge is too long, so having to unmerge then swap pets then wait for 10s to merge again, possibly another 10s to swap pets again then another 10s to merge once more.... it's terrible. Too clunky and dull. It encourages you to sit in merged form and/or use one pet only. A better system would be to allow swapping while merged, even if this makes your merged abilities go into CD (5s-8s tops, no more, 8s is already pushing it), the fluidity of the spec would be much improved.

The third issue is how underwhelming it is when compared to some of the other specializations. Let's agree for a second that all we get out of this specialization is three new skills and a weapon, a 2 skill weapon I might add. So, whereas other professions are getting actual changes to their playstyle and flavor, we get 3 new skills we can hardly customize... Onto the skills themselves. Take Worldy Impact as an example and compare it to Holo Leap: Worldy Impact, the one good thing that's not passive you get from merging with a Ferocious pet, has 588 base damage, a 1s cast time which roots you in place and telegraphs your intention far and wide, and a 25s CD; Holo Leap, on the other hand, has 669 base damage, tracking, 600 range and a 6s CD. Either this was designed by two different teams or I don't know what's what. Let me emphasize that point: Holosmiths got a whole bunch of cool stuff. We get Worldy Impact, and how does that one thing compare? It's awful!

Bottomline: soulbeast sucks.

the dev interview shown on woodenpotatoes channel has the answer for you3 different people were in charge of the teams to balance the new elite specsKarl MclainIn charge of weaver (worked on dragonhunter, daredevil and tempest for the last expansion)Robert GeeIn charge of spellbreaker, mirage, holo and deadeye (worked on chrono, reaper and berserker for the last expansion)Irenio Calmon-HuangIn charge of firebrand, renegade, scourge and soulbeast (worked on scrapper and druid for the last expansion)Long story short. It's a case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand's doing. Just with 3 hands instead of two3 dev teams3 different mindsets3 different ways to approach/balance gameplay elements

The result is what we got with path of fire.

edit: added source:

Nice catch, and unfortunately all too common.

soulbeast is dope sorry its not working out for you could be an l2p issue

Nah man it's just awful, fails miserably compared to druid in pvp. It's clunky and doesn't offer enough, to top it off.I've got well over 1k games on ranger and played a whole lot as core as well. Soulbeast is barely an improvement over core and falls miles behind Druid.In open world, I reckon, I'll feel the same way. By the way, I play power not cranger cuz condi be lame.

I solo roam WvW with my power ranger, and just switched to power soul beast post patch, and I've found my success 1v1 has gone WAY up. For me and my play style and chosen game modes, Soul beast is doing really well and I'm thoroughly enjoying it!

I don't know, maybe a lot of the complaints are condi guys. Though that doesn't explain your troubles Savvy. I don't know how to help. Maybe it's a different strokes for different folks thing. Sorry you're not having fun. I'm very happy so far!

power Soulbeast is very strong in pvp, i like it over core just for the gazelle F1-F3, the massive damage modifiers (+22% lul) and the extra unblockable from Unstoppable Union. main problems with the way SB turned out: MH dagger is weak, can't swap pets in Beastmode, and overall it's difficult to come up with a viable condi build.

I find the SB mechanics are solid, but the spec needs a lot of tweaks before it's strong. for example, some pet abilities are garbage or broken, and using MH dagger is pretty suicidal due to long cast times. if we're gonna keep condis as they are now in game, SB needs a lot of buffs to keep up with others in this area.

I haven't played against any competent SB'sand I haven't purchased the xpac (yet)Thats to be expected as everyone is doing the pve content.

Too early to call it a complete loss.

From my playtime in Gold 3 Spellbreakers and Scourge are doing well.

After playing soulbeast for 2 weeks i changed to core ranger. Its acctually more fun...

Power Soul beast when roaming is a lot of fun. Not every spec has to be good at every single role in every single game mode. Yes it has bugs and issues, yes they should have been fixed before release but i am sure the bugs and issues will be come the next balance update. Quality of Life changes however, i am not so sure about. Would love a few but we shall see.

@Sedlina.1097 said:the dev interview shown on woodenpotatoes channel has the answer for you3 different people were in charge of the teams to balance the new elite specsKarl MclainIn charge of weaver (worked on dragonhunter, daredevil and tempest for the last expansion)Robert GeeIn charge of spellbreaker, mirage, holo and deadeye (worked on chrono, reaper and berserker for the last expansion)Irenio Calmon-HuangIn charge of firebrand, renegade, scourge and soulbeast (worked on scrapper and druid for the last expansion)Long story short. It's a case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand's doing. Just with 3 hands instead of two3 dev teams3 different mindsets3 different ways to approach/balance gameplay elements

The result is what we got with path of fire.

edit: added source:

.

I can't believe the person who design Scourge/ Firebrand is the same that design Soulbeast.

Those 2 classes got complete re-haul of their class mechenic in general and play out completely differently.Soulbeast loses pet and gain 3 skills, which 2 of them being terrible and 3rd skill being restrictive.

Dagger has by far the most inferior animation and flavor among all the new weapons.

Not sure I'd say it sucks but it sure is wonky. I would also say it is too early to say it is super awesome sauce because of a couple broke pets. I mean the Gazelle is broke and we all know it. So jury is still out in my opinion. Interesting enough a couple people I run with don't run PoF classes and one is still playing retail warrior. Granted these are exceptional players who carry me but it is interesting to see what they run and why. In both of their respected cases neither expansion pack makes or break them.

So yeah - maybe it is trying to find a comfort level with the latest code. I know I've not found a build that works for me in WvW and I'm tempted to roll back to Druid. But I also know pets need work has does pet to player transformation...

@Crapgame.6519 said:Not sure I'd say it sucks but it sure is wonky. I would also say it is too early to say it is super awesome sauce because of a couple broke pets. I mean the Gazelle is broke and we all know it. So jury is still out in my opinion. Interesting enough a couple people I run with don't run PoF classes and one is still playing retail warrior. Granted these are exceptional players who carry me but it is interesting to see what they run and why. In both of their respected cases neither expansion pack makes or break them.

So yeah - maybe it is trying to find a comfort level with the latest code. I know I've not found a build that works for me in WvW and I'm tempted to roll back to Druid. But I also know pets need work has does pet to player transformation...

From my experience, the Gazelle is only broken when it uses charge on downed opponents. That will be an easy fix. Other than that, i think the Gazelle is fine, they could do with tweaking it so it can actually HIT a moving target though but i mostly use in Beastmode for the Charge ability.

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Crapgame.6519 said:Not sure I'd say it sucks but it sure is wonky. I would also say it is too early to say it is super awesome sauce because of a couple broke pets. I mean the Gazelle is broke and we all know it. So jury is still out in my opinion. Interesting enough a couple people I run with don't run PoF classes and one is still playing retail warrior. Granted these are exceptional players who carry me but it is interesting to see what they run and why. In both of their respected cases neither expansion pack makes or break them.

So yeah - maybe it is trying to find a comfort level with the latest code. I know I've not found a build that works for me in WvW and I'm tempted to roll back to Druid. But I also know pets need work has does pet to player transformation...

Yeah - a lot of people tend to agree. The Gazelle didn't get the best when it comes to AI, granted. However, it isn't just hitting high on downed players. I've personally seen mine hit for over 20K out in WvW both solo and a group of 4. Could be a one off but then again everything is a bit off in WvW since the expansion.

If you think Soulbeast sucks what Renegades and Mirage players should say?

@Crapgame.6519 said:Yeah - a lot of people tend to agree. The Gazelle didn't get the best when it comes to AI, granted. However, it isn't just hitting high on downed players. I've personally seen mine hit for over 20K out in WvW both solo and a group of 4. Could be a one off but then again everything is a bit off in WvW since the expansion.

How much power do you have? Boons and everything else? I have nearly 3k Power, 210% Crit damage and i havent seen it hit that high, think my highest was like 8k or something and that was against a full zerk ele. Given that its not got the best pathing or anything means it doesnt hit often, but when it does it hits big, which is kinda fair, ive taken 17k+ Dead Eye shots that have had ZERO set up against me

It does need the damage against downed fixed, it also needs its pathing and normal attacks improved because you can just go around in a circle and avoid it lol

Therefore, based on developer enthusiasm Deadeye is great in PvP? I can't even play the game and I know Deadeye isn't good in PvP.

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Crapgame.6519 said:Yeah - a lot of people tend to agree. The Gazelle didn't get the best when it comes to AI, granted. However, it isn't just hitting high on downed players. I've personally seen mine hit for over 20K out in WvW both solo and a group of 4. Could be a one off but then again everything is a bit off in WvW since the expansion.

Agreed, damage is not everything.

My Deadeye P/P gain max boons/ quickness in 2 seconds and can spike down any unsuspecting foe, but it doesn't make it strong in pvp or against players who know their class/ utilize reflect and stuff.

It's not that soulbeast is super bad. It's just boring as hell to play, offers nothing new, in PvE you still run the same build, the same playstyle (only shortly interrupted with BM).

Overall, for another 2 years, it's a core ranger we have to play with. SB has brought nothing new or interesting to the table

Soulbeast is awesome. /thread

Seriously, though, Soulbeast is actually pretty good. I prefer open world PvE, and I don't min-max, but I don't believe it's terrible.

Pet selection is variable enough, yet simple enough to keep balancing reasonable. The buff and F3 skills are nice, and the traits you gain while in Beastmode are powerful. That said, I wish some traits like Loud Whistle worked in Beastmode.

As for it being underwhelming, that's subjective. I find some specs, such as Deadeye, to be underwhelming; and some, like Weaver, to be overly complicated.

On to your specific comparison: Holo Leap vs Worldly Impact. Worldly Impact actually does more damage, with a skill coefficient of 2.21 vs Holo Leap's 1.8. Worldly Impact hits 5 targets in a 240u radius, where as Holo Leap hits 3 in a 130u radius. Holo Leap also generates heat, which if it overheats, will deal upwards of 25% total HP to the Holosmith.

Also, comparing just Worldly Impact to the entirety of Photo Forge is disingenuous. A better comparison would be Beastmode as a whole, and we get far more than just one skill.

I just feel like soulbeast trades too much sustain/group buff convenience for too little personal output. On my condi soulbeast I've found that really committing to poison in addition to the usual bleed and burn stacking makes for decent output, but I miss the extra speed, roots, cleanses, heals.... and general usefulness of the druid line.

I keep switching into soulbeast for a session or two just to give it another chance, but the offensive gain from taking soulbeast just feels to pitiful for becoming nigh unkillable with druid (not to mention all the group cleanse/heal/buff druid offers). Also, there's no way I'd take a soulbeast into spvp. Even my bunker druid, of all things, can either stop or kill a soulbeast fairly easily.

I agree. Soulbeast is a letdown.

@Aomine.5012 said:

I can't believe the person who design Scourge/ Firebrand is the same that design Soulbeast.

Those 2 classes got complete re-haul of their class mechenic in general and play out completely differently.Soulbeast loses pet and gain 3 skills, which 2 of them being terrible and 3rd skill being restrictive.

Dagger has by far the most inferior animation and flavor among all the new weapons.

Oh I can think of a reasonPick a dev team with an unknown amount days to create new elite specsstart with basic brainstorming for the theme of the new specs. Once that is done delve into skill designJump into spec 1. Do a good job at it. Send it off for the animation department to create fancy skill animations for them. Get people to playtest it and work with the feedback you get from it to improve it.Swap over to spec 2. Same deal. Still a lot of time left to get proper palytesting in and to work with the gathered data.Start with spec 3 - same as above - yet before you can send it out for playtesting you receive a memo to hurry up because someone just dropped an internal release date.

Split the team between playtesting and updating spec 3 and assign the leftovers to spec 4.Rush over spec 4's basics. Copy a few basic designs from spec 3 as fillers and make changes (aka restrictions) to create a lil difference between them (soulcleave, one wolf pack - says hello. Reduced condi damage with protection says hello - all just weaker versions on ranger).Send it over to the animation team. No time for testing. No time for proper scaling formulas. No time for basic functionality test. Add existing improvised weapon animations as placeholders (F1 and F2 skills say hello)

You don't know what you're talking about, Soulbeast is in a much better place than some of the other specs (Holo, Deadeye).

@TerminalMontage.5693 said:You don't know what you're talking about, Soulbeast is in a much better place than some of the other specs (Holo, Deadeye).

Just because raid dps check of those 2 classes are not on the top list doesn't mean they designed badly.

Holosmith has very strong potential in PVP because of the on demand burst , stability, aoe, and lots of hard CC.

Deadeye has potential in PVP too , and so far seems to counter classes like Scourge with their stealthy assassination range style.

Rifle of Deadeye need a buff though, especially for the AA and kneeling skills.