It tells all about how Anet consider pvp

... (nearly) completely abandoned mode

http://dulfy.net/2018/07/02/gw2-long-live-lich-developer-ama-summary/

I think we must abandon idea that we will never see new modes, more than 5v5...

right...

Balance patch coming mid-season, tournaments being worked on the back-end, 2v2 tournaments, and this:

We have several new maps in development. A new desert themed conquest map, 2 additional small arena maps for custom arenas and a large arena map for custom areas.

if there are 200 people working 24/7 365 on shiny buyable skins and only one part time intern who is just learning coding working on pvp. Then I'll continue to not buy any items. Pvpers have to protest with their real world wallets. Bought every special game pack or tried to since GW1, when pof came out i bought the cheapest one and only a month or so after. Haven't used cash here since.

if they decided to spend just the ressource and the time of 1 episode in pvp, it would create an never ending content in pvp.

A mode where pvers and casuals could be more attracted than 5v5 very punishing mode for not good in pvp people.

A mode with bigger map and 10v10 or 15v15, between arena competitive format and wvw.

But Anet don't even try to understand this.

They prefer to spend ressource for content that some people will not play again after their first time.

A shame.

@Delweyn.1309 said:if they decided to spend just the ressource and the time of 1 episode in pvp, it would create an never ending content in pvp.

A mode where pvers and casuals could be more attracted than 5v5 very punishing mode for not good in pvp people.

A mode with bigger map and 10v10 or 15v15, between arena competitive format and wvw.

But Anet don't even try to understand this.

They prefer to spend ressource for content that some people will not play again after their first time.

A shame.

In the WvW subthread this was posted.

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:So we have a couple things in progress. First, is a new section of EOTM that is just an open arena that's suitable for large fights if people choose. I've been working on it this week and it's pretty far along.

Second, we have a custom arena map in progress. The map is being setup for larger deathmatches. However, it uses the sPvP stat and armor system, which many GvGers also won't be interested in. Custom arenas also have a limitation of 10v10 currently.

We still have no current plans to ever have GvG be a fully supported game mode, but we did want to do a few things for the fervent GvGers out there!

Hopefully it helps, with any luck that 10v10 map will be implemented with a queue up button rather than trying to find 20 random players for a brawl.

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Delweyn.1309 said:if they decided to spend just the ressource and the time of 1 episode in pvp, it would create an never ending content in pvp.

A mode where pvers and casuals could be more attracted than 5v5 very punishing mode for not good in pvp people.

A mode with bigger map and 10v10 or 15v15, between arena competitive format and wvw.

But Anet don't even try to understand this.

They prefer to spend ressource for content that some people will not play again after their first time.

A shame.

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:So we have a couple things in progress. First, is a new section of EOTM that is just an open arena that's suitable for large fights if people choose. I've been working on it this week and it's pretty far along.

Second, we have a custom arena map in progress. The map is being setup for larger deathmatches. However, it uses the sPvP stat and armor system, which many GvGers also won't be interested in. Custom arenas also have a limitation of 10v10 currently.

We still have no current plans to ever have GvG be a fully supported game mode, but we did want to do a few things for the fervent GvGers out there!

custom arena and open arena (either in pvp lobby or in wvw) already exist.If 2 groups or guilds want to do big fights with their rules it already possible.

It's absolutly not the same than a pvp dedicated game mode.

@Delweyn.1309 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Delweyn.1309 said:if they decided to spend just the ressource and the time of 1 episode in pvp, it would create an never ending content in pvp.

A mode where pvers and casuals could be more attracted than 5v5 very punishing mode for not good in pvp people.

A mode with bigger map and 10v10 or 15v15, between arena competitive format and wvw.

But Anet don't even try to understand this.

They prefer to spend ressource for content that some people will not play again after their first time.

A shame.

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:So we have a couple things in progress. First, is a new section of EOTM that is just an open arena that's suitable for large fights if people choose. I've been working on it this week and it's pretty far along.

Second, we have a custom arena map in progress. The map is being setup for larger deathmatches. However, it uses the sPvP stat and armor system, which many GvGers also won't be interested in. Custom arenas also have a limitation of 10v10 currently.

We still have no current plans to ever have GvG be a fully supported game mode, but we did want to do a few things for the fervent GvGers out there!

If you can read between the lines, specifically this part:"we have a custom arena map in progress. The map is being setup for larger deathmatches. However, it uses the sPvP stat and armor system"

Reading between the lines is a useful skill but basically your living story episode is the Deathmatch they are creating for us.... The new game mode and dedication to PvP we have all asked for is happening. A lot of us have asked for new game modes, specifically Deathmatch or capture the Quaggan (so yay! can't wait now) and it's also stated it will use the sPvP stat and armor system which means 99.99% chance it will be in the mists (pvp).

Now you can go through my forum history and you'll see I'm usually first in line to rag on Anet about certain things like the removal of team queue, removal of Courtyard which was the deathmatch we used to have and the lack of resources put towards PvP but they have stated now as you can see, that they are indeed working on bringing us some cool content.

But like I said, I really hope they give us a queue button for it as they already stated that "many GvGers also won't be interested in" so it wouldn't make sense to provide such a cool feature to everyone that only GvG guilds could accomplish, of which they said they probably wouldn't be interested in...

@Delweyn.1309 said:It's absolutly not the same than a pvp dedicated game mode.

So to touch up on this comment: How would deathmatch not be a dedicated PvP? It's deathmatch.If you meant the mists, we would officially have 3 seperate game modes just within sPvP if it was implemented (4 if you included tournies) .... not including WvW.

I dunno if this is just a complaint thread or not but just incase it isn't, I wrote all that.

PvPers are the unloved, unwanted stepchildren of this family.

PvEers are the coddled, privileged, loved child.

If they went a season where PvPers were the primary focus, they'd probably complain about being neglected, ignored, and how unfair it is. Where we've only known a life of neglect.

You can tell just by the tone of the article written when asked about PvP.

"...not a high priority right now..." & "...my usual reply is that we have no current plans..." speaks volumes on their opinion of their PvP Population.

2 pages of solid up coming pve content and plans. And a pvp section so small if you scrolled too fast you'd miss it entirely.

The AMA was about PvE content, Living World Season 4 Episode 3... what did you expect? In the past they did not even answer questions related to PvP in a PvE centric AMA at all.

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Delweyn.1309 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Delweyn.1309 said:if they decided to spend just the ressource and the time of 1 episode in pvp, it would create an never ending content in pvp.

A mode where pvers and casuals could be more attracted than 5v5 very punishing mode for not good in pvp people.

A mode with bigger map and 10v10 or 15v15, between arena competitive format and wvw.

But Anet don't even try to understand this.

They prefer to spend ressource for content that some people will not play again after their first time.

A shame.

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:So we have a couple things in progress. First, is a new section of EOTM that is just an open arena that's suitable for large fights if people choose. I've been working on it this week and it's pretty far along.

Second, we have a custom arena map in progress. The map is being setup for larger deathmatches. However, it uses the sPvP stat and armor system, which many GvGers also won't be interested in. Custom arenas also have a limitation of 10v10 currently.

We still have no current plans to ever have GvG be a fully supported game mode, but we did want to do a few things for the fervent GvGers out there!

@Delweyn.1309 said:It's absolutly not the same than a pvp dedicated game mode.

Saying that it uses spvp set and not gvg is not clear yes.

In spvp we obviously use spvp balanced gear. No need to point it. So why he does it ?

By doing this, one can understand that its an arena in WvW but when people enter it, it will use spvp gear.

And custom ? Like the already existing custom arena with owners doing "red team kills for farm" ? So it's not a global arena mode like the actual conquest with "queue up button" if it's custom no ?

I will not do like you by telling you to use your brain more but I repeat it's not clear.

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:The AMA was about PvE content, Living World Season 4 Episode 3... what did you expect? In the past they did not even answer questions related to PvP in a PvE centric AMA at all.

Show me a AMA post 2016 about PvP

This might be quite a stretch for most of the players but in truth Anet introduced quite a lot of PvP content. It's just that a lot of it is labelled as PvE content.

• Keg brawl
• sanctum sprint
• southsun survival
• dragonball arena
• snowball mayhem
• Belcher's bluff

All of those have the right to be labelled as PvP activities.

And in this AMA, they spend quite some time talking about a new PvP activity that they seem to want to implement which is the bettles's race. I've seen a lot of players complaining about a lack of diversity in PvP, complaining that conquest is the issue of the gamemode. However, puting player against each other do not automatically mean to have themself hit each other.

I believe that what anet need to do is to relocate this "PvE" content into "PvP", see how the the community react to this influx of "new content" (pure PvP player probably don't even know that those things exist) and maybe develop more variation of those games. They could even take the opportunity to reintroduce some of the activities that disappeared due to the living story progression (like the aspect arena or basket brawl). More than anything, they won't have much issues with classe balance.

There is group content as well as individual content, Anet could even put these into their tournaments or PvP season. This could create a refreshing change of pace for PvP players and PvP team.

What would it cost? A few NPC to link these activities to the mist a some hours of coding to make those activity reward players with some experience in PvP track.

What exactly is the issue with conquest and why do you necessarily /need/ other modes? What's the advantage of these other modes?I'd rather have a lot more balance patches than more dev resources wasted for shit like stronghold.

@"Dadnir.5038" said:This might be quite a stretch for most of the players but in truth Anet introduced quite a lot of PvP content. It's just that a lot of it is labelled as PvE content.

• Keg brawl
• sanctum sprint
• southsun survival
• dragonball arena
• snowball mayhem
• Belcher's bluff

All of those have the right to be labelled as PvP activities.

And in this AMA, they spend quite some time talking about a new PvP activity that they seem to want to implement which is the bettles's race. I've seen a lot of players complaining about a lack of diversity in PvP, complaining that conquest is the issue of the gamemode. However, puting player against each other do not automatically mean to have themself hit each other.

I believe that what anet need to do is to relocate this "PvE" content into "PvP", see how the the community react to this influx of "new content" (pure PvP player probably don't even know that those things exist) and maybe develop more variation of those games. They could even take the opportunity to reintroduce some of the activities that disappeared due to the living story progression (like the aspect arena or basket brawl). More than anything, they won't have much issues with classe balance.

There is group content as well as individual content, Anet could even put these into their tournaments or PvP season. This could create a refreshing change of pace for PvP players and PvP team.

What would it cost? A few NPC to link these activities to the mist a some hours of coding to make those activity reward players with some experience in PvP track.

Generalizing "PvP" into anything in which puts a player in an activity against another playing either through a mini-game or a fan made use of mounts/content isnt PvP.

They separated this very article by section to exemplify this very fact.

@Etheri.5406 said:What exactly is the issue with conquest and why do you necessarily /need/ other modes? What's the advantage of these other modes?I'd rather have a lot more balance patches than more dev resources wasted for kitten like stronghold.

there is patches at every season and there is always as much complains.

other modes for people who are not in 5v5 competitive state of mind, lots of pvers who don't like conquest.more some 10 or 15v15, between arena and WvW, where some pvers can still shine because they can play hide in the group.conquest and 5v5 have been buld for epsort but anet failed. So they threw the sponge instead changing it for more casual and less competitive gameplay.

IF you want less competitive and challenging gameplay; go stronghold. That's literally what stronghold was.

Here's a crazy thought : non-competitive PvP with "queues" and "ranked" and the likes doesn't work. And if anet doesn't put time and balance into it; it works even less. And if none plays it competitively? Doomed to fail.

Stop trying to make PvP more enjoyable for casual carebears. They - by definition - don't enjoy PvP and competing with other players. You make PvP good for the players who genuinely enjoy it and that itself creates a healthy scene. Anet has NEVER done this. They jumped money to esports; not the creation of a healthy competitive scene.

"Where some pve'rs can still shine because they can play hide in the group"... Haha. That works if you have 10 capable players and 5 not so capable ones able to hide. It doesn't work with 14 players trying to hide and one that has a rough idea of what's going on. Same as WvW at the moment. 50 man zergs of players all trying to get carried, then they're upset and hide in keep when they still lose because they're too casual to try but they demand to shine.

It's PvP. If it's any fun you'll have players practise to kill others because they enjoy it. If it's not any fun players won't play it, especially not casuals who are inherently anti-pvp. There are no hardcore players farming casuals in stronghold; but there's still nobody playing it!

You're making the same mistake anet is; trying to design COMPETITIVE GAME MODES for CASUALS will not work. I'm not saying you can't create environments where it works. You definitely can. You know when WvW casuals can hide within a group and still shine? When the group is predominantly organised and has no issues taking along less skilled players. When you create things like EOTM alongside WvW; where each group predominantly plays its prefered map for seperate reasons. Yet still plenty of small and hardcore WvW groups farmed EOTM zergs pretty damn hard.

The moment anet started promoting everyone to play WvW over EOTM through reward rebalancing (nerf EOTM, buff WvW) to fill the holes caused by WvW vets leaving rather quickly... The ability to join a zerg and shine diminished greatly. Most zergs aren't having epic battles with other zergs anymore. The losing side's casuals instantly ragequit after a few fights, and the remainder goes and karmatrains red bl. The winning group karma trains whatever map is their choice or chases them. Casuals can't shine in zergs because zergs are literally 99% casuals. And a zerg which is more than 20% non-casual scrubs ends up onepushing virtually everything.

WvW was more casual friendly when it was catered towards hardcore players than it is now. The more WvW was designed towards casual players; the harder it became for casuals to "jump in and play" anything other than roaming... Roaming which puts them on their own, again, rather than giving them a zerg to hide in.

Casual players by definition don't have interest in fighting losing fights. And as long as the losing side rather doesnt play than lose, a competitive mode for casuals is doomed to fail. You know; you can't have "winners" if the losers rather avoid losing by not playing than lose. In PvP there's a LOT of afkers in ... low ratings. The moment they're not winning it's time to [Afk for rewards]. Climb out of casual tiers and suddenly the amount of afkers is greatly reduced. The exact same in WvW.

Casuals don't want to compete. They want to be winners. And they can come leech as long as there's enough competitive players playing to support them. But if groups are predominantly casual -the truth for GW2 at this point- then they don't play the moment one side loses. And one side always loses. So truthfully... they just don't play. At least not competing ;)

@Wizardauz.3761 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:This might be quite a stretch for most of the players but in truth Anet introduced quite a lot of PvP content. It's just that a lot of it is labelled as PvE content.

• Keg brawl
• sanctum sprint
• southsun survival
• dragonball arena
• snowball mayhem
• Belcher's bluff

All of those have the right to be labelled as PvP activities.

And in this AMA, they spend quite some time talking about a new PvP activity that they seem to want to implement which is the bettles's race. I've seen a lot of players complaining about a lack of diversity in PvP, complaining that conquest is the issue of the gamemode. However, puting player against each other do not automatically mean to have themself hit each other.

I believe that what anet need to do is to relocate this "PvE" content into "PvP", see how the the community react to this influx of "new content" (pure PvP player probably don't even know that those things exist) and maybe develop more variation of those games. They could even take the opportunity to reintroduce some of the activities that disappeared due to the living story progression (like the aspect arena or basket brawl). More than anything, they won't have much issues with classe balance.

There is group content as well as individual content, Anet could even put these into their tournaments or PvP season. This could create a refreshing change of pace for PvP players and PvP team.

What would it cost? A few NPC to link these activities to the mist a some hours of coding to make those activity reward players with some experience in PvP track.

You realize that those "mini-game" in a situation where they are all equal and thus only their personnal skill matter, right?

This very thread complain about the lack of concern from anet toward PvP letting readers see that there is "no content" in developpement for this gamemode and seemingly no intent to incensitive it. I just show that if you broaden a tiny bit your definition of PvP, suddenly there is plenty of ready to play content for everyone.

They separated this very article by section to exemplify this very fact.

So for you "General" mean that the PvP gamemode isn't concerned? That there is no crashes in PvP that are looked at, that adjustment to the wardrobe don't affect PvP, taht PvP players have no use for luck sink and the way they develop content won't affect those players.

There is underused content which put player against player in a fair setting. It doesn't make use of the traditionnal profession and thus is extremly balance with map and objectif that can be very similar to the current PvP.

There is 4 whole different maps designed for teamplay (Keg, basket, dragonball and snowball), a PvP survival game that only ask to be expanded (survival at southsun/crab and you probably can very easily copy it in a HoT and/or a PoF setting) and a whole PvP brawl racing mode can be develop with a setting close to sanctum sprint (creating map for each mount and glider, adding easily brawling skill on those. It would even boost anet mount and glider skins sales).

What's really astonishing is that the market team didn't already managed to link these to PvP, making all the wardrobe elements relevant in this gamemode.

@"Dadnir.5038" said:

You realize that those "mini-game" in a situation where they are all equal and thus only their personnal skill matter, right?

Look idk if you have a Keg Brawl league you happen to go hardcore with but if you do and consider that pvp, youre more then welcome to.

Do you consider it WvW as well because you can guest-transfer to another server and play Keg Brawl against those players lol :p

This very thread complain about the lack of concern from anet toward PvP letting readers see that there is "no content" in developpement for this gamemode andseemingly no intent to incensitive it. I just show that if you broaden a tiny bit your definition of PvP, suddenly there is plenty of ready to play content for everyone.

My "tiny" definition of PvP is defined by the fact that when i enter the Mists it says "PvP Lobby" as defined by ArenaNet themselves. Where they hold Tournaments. Where a ranked ladder system has been designed in order to exemplify this fact.

So for you "General" mean that the PvP gamemode isn't concerned? That there is no crashes in PvP that are looked at, that adjustment to the wardrobe don't affect PvP,taht PvP players have no use for luck sink and the way they develop content won't affect those players.

No. General is what i used to clarify your self described defintion of PvP. Since youre defending the notion that PvEing for a Mount and racing them, or playing keg brawl equates to, again, your own definition of PvP lol.

There is underused content which put player against player in a fair setting. It doesn't make use of the traditionnal profession and thus is extremly balance with map and objectif that can be very similar to the current PvP.

Cool. Not interested in it. Im interested sPvP, WvW, i take no pleasure in PvE content.

There is 4 whole different maps designed for teamplay (Keg, basket, dragonball and snowball), a PvP survival game that only ask to be expanded (survival atsouthsun/crab and you probably can very easily copy it in a HoT and/or a PoF setting) and a whole PvP brawl racing mode can be develop with a setting close to sanctumsprint (creating map for each mount and glider, adding easily brawling skill on those. It would even boost anet mount and glider skins sales).

What's really astonishing is that the market team didn't already managed to link these to PvP, making all the wardrobe elements relevant in this gamemode.

Bro. If thats what gets your "PvP"-Rocks off. All the more power to you. B) Thank you for the laugh though

@Wizardauz.3761 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:

You realize that those "mini-game" in a situation where they are all equal and thus only their personnal skill matter, right?

Nope, keg brawl is already interserver, the exact same as PvP.

This very thread complain about the lack of concern from anet toward PvP letting readers see that there is "no content" in developpement for this gamemode andseemingly no intent to incensitive it. I just show that if you broaden a tiny bit your definition of PvP, suddenly there is plenty of ready to play content for everyone.

PvP mean Player vs Player. PvP is anything that put players in a competitive fight against other player, which those activities does. None of those activities can be defined as PvE content because you do not play/fight against the environment but against other players.

So for you "General" mean that the PvP gamemode isn't concerned? That there is no crashes in PvP that are looked at, that adjustment to the wardrobe don't affect PvP,taht PvP players have no use for luck sink and the way they develop content won't affect those players.

You didn't understood me, the AMA is separated in 3 sections: General, Raid/fractal and PvP. And I never said that you needed to PvE, I suggested that racing and brawling became complete part of PvP, which doesn't imply that any player would have to unlock any mastery or own the mount and have to grind PvE in any way.

There is underused content which put player against player in a fair setting. It doesn't make use of the traditionnal profession and thus is extremly balance with map and objectif that can be very similar to the current PvP.

Again, I don't talk about any PvE content here.

There is 4 whole different maps designed for teamplay (Keg, basket, dragonball and snowball), a PvP survival game that only ask to be expanded (survival atsouthsun/crab and you probably can very easily copy it in a HoT and/or a PoF setting) and a whole PvP brawl racing mode can be develop with a setting close to sanctumsprint (creating map for each mount and glider, adding easily brawling skill on those. It would even boost anet mount and glider skins sales).

What's really astonishing is that the market team didn't already managed to link these to PvP, making all the wardrobe elements relevant in this gamemode.

I guess you're fine with what little option the PvP lobby offer you then and that you disagree with the op that anet neglect PvP since you've got already everything to your satisfaction there. Joke asside, with a narrow view on PvP, there is no way for more content to appear in this gamemode and thus there is no way for anet to make players to play more in this gamemode.

So what would you call the game mode in which you queue up for ranked games in the HoM

Theres plenty of ways, whether its Deathmatch, New Maps, Overall Balance, maybe even a spin on a battle royal type mode.

The ideas are out there.

@"Wizardauz.3761" said:Generalizing "PvP" into anything in which puts a player in an activity against another playing either through a mini-game or a fan made use of mounts/content isnt PvP.

They separated this very article by section to exemplify this very fact.

Most of them are literally PVP, though. Snowball Mayhem is a capture the flag map (so is Keg Toss, and Crab Toss kind of is), Dragon Ball is a deathmatch map, and Southsun Survival is a free-for-all.

They even use PVP architecture, right down to having you in your PVP equipment back when that was still a thing. Sanctum Sprint even got bugged to give PVP rank points for a day or two once.

@Delweyn.1309 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Delweyn.1309 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Delweyn.1309 said:if they decided to spend just the ressource and the time of 1 episode in pvp, it would create an never ending content in pvp.

A mode where pvers and casuals could be more attracted than 5v5 very punishing mode for not good in pvp people.

A mode with bigger map and 10v10 or 15v15, between arena competitive format and wvw.

But Anet don't even try to understand this.

They prefer to spend ressource for content that some people will not play again after their first time.

A shame.

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:So we have a couple things in progress. First, is a new section of EOTM that is just an open arena that's suitable for large fights if people choose. I've been working on it this week and it's pretty far along.

Second, we have a custom arena map in progress. The map is being setup for larger deathmatches. However, it uses the sPvP stat and armor system, which many GvGers also won't be interested in. Custom arenas also have a limitation of 10v10 currently.

We still have no current plans to ever have GvG be a fully supported game mode, but we did want to do a few things for the fervent GvGers out there!

@Delweyn.1309 said:It's absolutly not the same than a pvp dedicated game mode.

You state nothing for PvP and when given facts that state otherwise you tell me to use my brain?

If I had of known that the only intention to this thread was to cry, I wouldn't have wasted my time linking what was said in other threads...

Carry on, maybe you'll fill a river.

Southsun Survival should have a leaderboard and its own queue!That thing is really fun, and with just a few changes could be even better.

no jokes

its simple. casual players spend money, hard core players don't cuz they spend all their time playing!

Honestly, PvP needs more modes and quite a few changes... Over 6 years it got nearly nothing.

We need:

• Bigger Capture Points.
• New Maps. At least 1 new map per episode. There is only one Strongold Map!!!
• New Modes. At least 1 new mode per Expansion. Capture the flag and more!
• 3vs3 Competitive Arena Mode... or 3vs3 Tournaments in smaller maps.
• More frequent balance patches. Once a month at minimum.
• Add a few Rewards that you can get through WvW, but not through PvP, like Testimony of Heroics.

And this would have been the minimum, in my opinion, what they could have done if they cared about PvP at all. The truth is, they don't. They just add the very minimum they can as not to lose a portion of the player-base over it and that's about it. They don't like PvP. Either they don't like playing it, the very concept of it or they just don't like designing it and hurting their heads over balancing it and all. Either way, they, as another user stated it, treat PvP as an unloved step-child.

Also, about this:

@Dadnir.5038 said:This might be quite a stretch for most of the players but in truth Anet introduced quite a lot of PvP content. It's just that a lot of it is labelled as PvE content.

• Keg brawl
• sanctum sprint
• southsun survival
• dragonball arena
• snowball mayhem
• Belcher's bluff

All of those have the right to be labelled as PvP activities.

If you could que for them through the Heart of the Mists it would make things 140% better and if they would add some rewards tracks with pvp currency to them, it would be really nice and redeem them at least a little bit for everything.

As for the other ones, if they would just double what they released in terms of pvp content (modes and maps), the game would be golden. So 4 modes and 10 maps all in all, and 3vs3 tournaments in addition to 5v5... If they could put so much into the core game, but can't add anything substantial to expansion releases... you just feel uncared for. :(