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Is Deadeye viable for fractals?


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Any class is viable, it's all up to how familiar you are with your class' limits and the mechanics of the fractals in play. As long as the group healer/boon bot isn't out dpsing you, and people don't need to constantly rez you, you'll be fine for the most part. Exceptions to some of the harder fractals (to, so, nightmare) where you need to do at least 10k dps ontop of not downing to pass through them seamlessly.

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I do them everyday as Deadeye, usually sustain between 12k to 16k dps on boss fights, depending on mechanics etc. Its actually really underrated.>

@"aceofbass.2163" said:

All classes are viable. Your only problem is grouping up people who only want speedclears. Maybe don't play fractals a few hours after reset.

Nothing he can play as a Thief will get him in "speedclear" runs as they all mindlessly follow SC's meta.

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@Griever.8150 said:I do them everyday as Deadeye, usually sustain between 12k to 16k dps on boss fights, depending on mechanics etc. Its actually really underrated.>

@"aceofbass.2163" said:

All classes are viable. Your only problem is grouping up people who only want speedclears. Maybe don't play fractals a few hours after reset.

Nothing he can play as a Thief will get him in "speedclear" runs as they all mindlessly follow SC's meta.

Uhhh....that's what I said?

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@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Griever.8150 said:usually sustain between 12k to 16k dps on boss fights (...) Its actually really underrated.

You misspelled underperforming.

Rarely see anyone do more than that, maybe just Staff Eles in some instances, even people with the big Fractal buff i played with. Boss with mechanics to avoid, phase shifts, immune phases etc != hitting a dummy.

But keep acting like there's only 4 classes in the game if you want, i don't really care.

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Simple answer:T1-3 Every class and build is viable. The content is to eaey to matter.

T4 - every class is viable, builds might need some optimization and different classes will be different hard to play to perform well.

CM - some classes become less viable because the amount of effort to maximize their performance would net you way better results than playing a different class. Certain synergies make the content insanely easy and faster to clear. 90% of the player base are unwilling or unable to play their class at this level.

In general Daredevil is not as desired for CMs.

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Heres the thing OP, the best thing you can bring to the table as a thief, is not dps. At least not dps on the sense of golems testing, maybe someone will argue it performs better in real scenarios, etc. I can't comment on that myself, because we would need to have actual data.

So don't try to focus on dps. What makes a thief unique? You can stealth the group very effectively, but doing so typically requires other people in the group to know how to use some of their blast skills. Additionally stealthing content (fractals, dungeons, story instances even) requires foreknowledge, where to blast and possibly when etc. It requires teamwork. And pugs are not good at that. There was a time where pug dungeon groups could do it, but I have very rarely seen modern fractal groups do it.

So in short, if you played with a dedicated group of friends, thief could very well be very good for certain encounters. But in a pug environment, probably not that good.

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@Griever.8150 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Griever.8150 said:usually sustain between 12k to 16k dps on boss fights (...) Its actually really underrated.

You misspelled underperforming.

Rarely see anyone do more than that, maybe just Staff Eles in some instances, even people with the big Fractal buff i played with. Boss with mechanics to avoid, phase shifts, immune phases etc != hitting a dummy.

But keep acting like there's only 4 classes in the game if you want, i don't really care.

Thief has no burst at all. It doesn't have cooldowns or big hitting attacks. If Weavers are not at least 5k dps ahead of you they are simply bad.Fractals are not like raids.Burst damage is really important because of the 50% breakbar dmg buff. Unloading all your burst during that frame boosts dps quite a lot. Thief doesn't have any burst he could unload.And deadeye has only single target damage and needs high flank uptime. Daredevil is just better most of the time. Daredevil works in bad groups without cc or proper strategies. But as soon as you try to improve, thief's low skill ceiliing will just hinder you.

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@Nephalem.8921 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Griever.8150 said:usually sustain between 12k to 16k dps on boss fights (...) Its actually really underrated.

You misspelled underperforming.

Rarely see anyone do more than that, maybe just Staff Eles in some instances, even people with the big Fractal buff i played with. Boss with mechanics to avoid, phase shifts, immune phases etc != hitting a dummy.

But keep acting like there's only 4 classes in the game if you want, i don't really care.

Thief has no burst at all. It doesn't have cooldowns or big hitting attacks. If Weavers are not at least 5k dps ahead of you they are simply bad.Fractals are not like raids.Burst damage is really important because of the 50% breakbar dmg buff. Unloading all your burst during that frame boosts dps quite a lot. Thief doesn't have any burst he could unload.And deadeye has only single target damage and needs high flank uptime. Daredevil is just better most of the time. Daredevil works in bad groups without cc or proper strategies. But as soon as you try to improve, thief's low skill ceiliing will just hinder you.

What? 40k backstabs that take about 3GCDs to set up isn't burst? Have you played D/D Deadeye at all since the rework?

Deadeye has perfect tools to exploit Break windows, it was it does best.

The only time i get outdps'd by weavers is on aoe pulls. Single target and 2 targets cleave i pull ahead, 3 target cleave is about equal.

But it does require timing to pull off which is pretty far from how most people seem to think Thief is meant to be played.

But that's my issue with this whole deal, people writing off specs or entire classes without properly testing them.

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@Griever.8150 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Griever.8150 said:usually sustain between 12k to 16k dps on boss fights (...) Its actually really underrated.

You misspelled underperforming.

Rarely see anyone do more than that, maybe just Staff Eles in some instances, even people with the big Fractal buff i played with. Boss with mechanics to avoid, phase shifts, immune phases etc != hitting a dummy.

But keep acting like there's only 4 classes in the game if you want, i don't really care.

Thief has no burst at all. It doesn't have cooldowns or big hitting attacks. If Weavers are not at least 5k dps ahead of you they are simply bad.Fractals are not like raids.Burst damage is really important because of the 50% breakbar dmg buff. Unloading all your burst during that frame boosts dps quite a lot. Thief doesn't have any burst he could unload.And deadeye has only single target damage and needs high flank uptime. Daredevil is just better most of the time. Daredevil works in bad groups without cc or proper strategies. But as soon as you try to improve, thief's low skill ceiliing will just hinder you.

What? 40k backstabs that take about 3GCDs to set up isn't burst? Have you played D/D Deadeye at all since the rework?

Deadeye has perfect tools to exploit Break windows, it was it does best.

The only time i get outdps'd by weavers is on aoe pulls. Single target and 2 targets cleave i pull ahead, 3 target cleave is about equal.

But it does require timing to pull off which is pretty far from how most people seem to think Thief is meant to be played.

But that's my issue with this whole deal, people writing off specs or entire classes without properly testing them.

yes 40k damage is not high if you have warrs, soulbeasts and weavers doing quadruple of that. I want to see 60k+ dps on your thief. Weaver has that in burst windows. Thief doesn't scale at all with alacrity except for 1 utility skill. Even Holo has good burst with pre stacked heat.Deadeye also has only single target damage. Thats bad on fights like effigy, svanir, fire shaman etc. It wouldn't be bad if thief had like top single target dps or burst and no cleave because of that but deadeye has low single target dps and almost no cleave at all.Everything is playable in fractals. It's just not good and has low skill ceiling. Means you can't really improve after a short amout of time. There are no cooldowns to manage or heat or anything like that.

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Is Deadeye good for Fractals?Just plainly: No. You miss AoE, utility, burst phases compared to other specs and overall your DPS is just bad; also you need to do weird feeling and displacing dodges (and partly stealth) within fights for a kinda optimal rotation.

Is Thief/Daredecil good for CMs and T4?Hell, yeah, if you are good on Daredevil, you get insanly high instant AoE Cleave thanks to Vault (Staff's 5) and Daggerstorm and mostly are on the same DPS level as average pug Fractal CM Weavers (>200KP). You have some nice addtional CC and burst thanks to spamming Weakening Charge on full Initiative, low endurance and Buff uptime after CC (short +50% DMG phase).

Now the bad thing: If you are good enough to perform like that on Thief, you could perform by far better on Weaver once you got used to it, because Weaver currently is just broken in Fracs thanks to how bosses work with many phasings allowing to recharge burst CDs on Weaver and a lot of CC possibilities for DMG boosts for Weaver. If a Weaver knows when the Chrono (+Druid+Warrior) CC and optimizes his rotation for that (or other way around), the burst is just a joke and bosses phase before first mechanic attack - reapeat ~3times and boss is dead on CMs.

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@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"Griever.8150" said:usually sustain between 12k to 16k dps on boss fights (...) Its actually really underrated.

You misspelled underperforming.

Compared to top dps builds, yes but when it comes to just the ability to clear fractals it's absolutely sufficient.Viable does not equal top tier but we have so many "elitist" players in gw2 that we will never have build diversity no matter how much time anet spends balancing there will always be a top tier build for every content and the elitists will always make it so that every other build is considered "not viable" just because it's not viable for their style of gameplay - which should never be considered "normal" since what their're doing comes closer to speedrunning than to playing the game.

So for everyone who isn't into speedrunning:

  • Learn the mechanics of the Game (dodging, walking out of AoE's paying attention to Boss mechanics like Breakbars, learn when and how to cc)
  • Learn the what your class is capable of (not just your specific build but your class in general, this will help to improve your personal build)
  • Learn the limits of your current build and try to improve it as much as you can while maintaining a Build that is enjoyable for you to play
  • (Optional) Try as many different classes as possible so that you can learn the limits of other players as well, this helps so that you don't always blame others since you'll know their limits too.

And at the end of the day you'll most likely be a viable asset for any type of content other than Speedrunning (in fractals/raids). Excluding PvP which is a bit more intricate.Everyone who disagrees should probably take a deep breath and try to be a little less narrow...

Fractals and Raids aren't as hard as "elitists" want to make you believe but they'll likely never admit it because they want to feel special - which is okay, it's just very unfortunate that they're ruining the game for so many other players that are not into speedrunning and just want to play the game. Just wanting to play the game doesn't mean that a player is bad, actually I'm quite sure that many players who enjoy tinkering with "out-of-the-box" builds are most likely better than the average "elitist" who just copies the top build for his class from some "meta"-builds website like sc. But that's just my opinion, I'm sure people will disagree :)

Anyway, long story short:As long as you understand the game mechanics and your class (and preferably other classes too), you should be able to make a viable build around whatever you enjoy the most about your class.

A "viable" solution isn't neccessarily "the best possible solution". It is a "working/functioning" solution.

PS: I've been tinkering around with Deadeye for while too, it's been a few months ago so not sure how much has changed but I'm quite sure that your build can be improved to reach higher dps, 12-16k on a Boss seems a little low, unfortunatly I don't remember what numbers I had reached with my build but I seem to remember higher numbers. Either way, an average of 14k Dps is enough in Fractals. The only two things that bother me in Fractal runs are players that keep dying because of a lack of knowledge about game mechanics (mostly people who started the game and instantly used the lv80 Boost, terrible game design imo). And elitists who just know everything better and can't accept that some players don't want to skip every single enemy and don't care about killing a boss in 5s less and don't want to /gg just because one player is downed and /gg'ing is faster than rezzing. My favorite "elitists" are those staff weavers that copied their Build from some website but never bothered reading into how to play the build but they still think they do more damage than me and complain about me not doing enough damage... I'm sure some AA's + casting MS off CD does top dps, just keep copying builds geniuses.

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@Smety.5379 said:I was wondering if it is viable to do T3 and T4 fractals with deadeye, i tried to experiment but was always more succesfull with staff daredevil. Could someone suggest some viable builds for deadeye?

Deadeye depends on support and good positioning. Staff daredevil less so.

Is it viable? Of course. Is it best in slot? No. Is it effective? Somewhat.

Id suggest the following: switch between staff daredevil and d/d deadeye depending on each fractal. Everywhere you can land backstabs properly deadeye will be more effective.

Arcdps buildtemplate helps with swapping fast.

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All classes are viable if you play them good. Thief is a very fragile character, you need to master its mechanics and avoid damage as much as you can.If you die a lot with it, then you will be a weight for your team to carry.

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@Valandor.9506 said:Is Deadeye good for Fractals?Just plainly: No. You miss AoE, utility, burst phases compared to other specs and overall your DPS is just bad; also you need to do weird feeling and displacing dodges (and partly stealth) within fights for a kinda optimal rotation.

Is Thief/Daredecil good for CMs and T4?Hell, yeah, if you are good on Daredevil, you get insanly high instant AoE Cleave thanks to Vault (Staff's 5) and Daggerstorm and mostly are on the same DPS level as average pug Fractal CM Weavers (>200KP). You have some nice addtional CC and burst thanks to spamming Weakening Charge on full Initiative, low endurance and Buff uptime after CC (short +50% DMG phase).

Now the bad thing: If you are good enough to perform like that on Thief, you could perform by far better on Weaver once you got used to it, because Weaver currently is just broken in Fracs thanks to how bosses work with many phasings allowing to recharge burst CDs on Weaver and a lot of CC possibilities for DMG boosts for Weaver. If a Weaver knows when the Chrono (+Druid+Warrior) CC and optimizes his rotation for that (or other way around), the burst is just a joke and bosses phase before first mechanic attack - reapeat ~3times and boss is dead on CMs.

Please. OP is asking if DE is VIABLE for t4 fractals. T4 fractals are not hard and any DPS will do. No need to overcomplicate stuff and do min max. You just need to know the mechanics.

He is not asking for CMs dont know why you even brought that up.

Also, stop killing diversity.

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@aceofbass.2163 said:Please. OP is asking if DE is VIABLE for t4 fractals. T4 fractals are not hard and any DPS will do. No need to overcomplicate stuff and do min max. You just need to know the mechanics.

Yo, as other people stated enough already: Yeah, it is viable - same as a full nomad Necromancer party is also viable.General advices to current state of the game are not min-maxing.

He is not asking for CMs dont know why you even brought that up.I brought it up in case he ever wants to go for them later, might be good to know, that close to nobody gonna accept Deadeye there.

Also, stop killing diversity.Not my fault, blame ANet. If it would be at least close to cleave, damage, burst, CC and support as other DPS professions, people wouldnt mind (Daredevil, Holosmith, Dragonhunter, ...) - still: Weaver sadly OP. (Please nerf, ANet!)

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@CptAurellian.9537 said:

@aceofbass.2163 said:Also, stop killing diversity.Valandor already said it: ANet hurts diversity by being unable to do proper balancing. Thief has been performing poorly for many balance patches, that's not the community's fault.

Yes anet did fail to balance most classes at a certain degree but it's not as bad as scrapper that you would bring up so many points that the ONLY acceptable class in regular t4 is weaver.

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@aceofbass.2163 said:

@aceofbass.2163 said:Also, stop killing diversity.Valandor already said it: ANet hurts diversity by being unable to do proper balancing. Thief has been performing poorly for many balance patches, that's not the community's fault.

Yes anet did fail to balance most classes at a certain degree but it's not as bad as scrapper that you would bring up so many points that the ONLY acceptable class in regular t4 is weaver.

No not T4, honestly for a decent (not stellar player) T4 is doable in any class and for good players in any setup (yes, even without a heal bot in the back).

The problem which adds to this though is, many players are not even decent :'(

Which leads us to the next dilemma, someone who can't play his class will probably be even worse on Weaver. For most of these problems though there is a common solution: find a guild. Guild mates will in general be more lenient, more forgiving, able to offer constructive advice and will more often than not be more fun to play with. Now if friendly guildies (not toxic ones, switch guilds if so) tell you to shape up, you really need to shape up.

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