Some things never change.

Hey all! Been gone for a little over a year. Between work and family life I just couldn't play. I was also kinda burned out. But I've been hearing good stuff about the Xpac. So I figured, I'd come back. And well, lets just say. Alot of things never change. First thing I see in the pvp forum is "mesmer is op and needs nerfed into the ground". It seems people have forgotten about the blurred frenzy nerf. The nerfs to portal, confusion, etc. Either that or there are a ton of new players.

Anyways I just think its funny that mes is still what is getting griped about vs, about 4 other specs.

some mesmer builds really need to be nerfed tho... The complaints are valid.

Wouldnt say 'build'. Would rather say abilities/traits . Like I would like to see axe nerf ( pooping way too much conditions ) ,dodge duration to 0.75s , IM -2 condis no breakstun just as start .Not every complaint is valid tho

@"Odik.4587" said:Wouldnt say 'build'. Would rather say abilities/traits . Like I would like to see axe nerf ( pooping way too much conditions ) ,dodge duration to 0.75s , IM -2 condis no breakstun just as start .Not every complaint is valid tho

"just as a start" - alright :joy:

I mean, I dislike Mirage as much as the next guy (due to the underlying design, I'd strip everything from the skills over the weapon to all the traits), but that's a bit harsh. I'd be actually more alright with Mirage being unselectable in PvP, not everything needs to be balanced for PvP.

@Carighan.6758 said:

@"Odik.4587" said:Wouldnt say 'build'. Would rather say abilities/traits . Like I would like to see axe nerf ( pooping way too much conditions ) ,dodge duration to 0.75s , IM -2 condis no breakstun just as start .Not every complaint is valid tho

I would dislike this. I play mirage in a way that isn't totally overpowering. I don't run stealth, retargetting skills, or conditions. The conditions by itself are overwhelming because of how many could be applied at once, insane amount, but paired with the stealth and retargetting, that's what makes it totally broken together. So it is possible to play mirage in other ways. But 99% of people are playing mirage in the most broken way possible cause it's just too easy not to, i guess.

@Hot Boy.7138 said:But 99% of people are playing mirage in the most broken way possible cause it's just too easy not to, i guess.

Why wouldn't I? I don't exactly enjoy only giving it 60% if I could be giving it 110%. :joy:

@Odik.4587 said:Wouldnt say 'build'. Would rather say abilities/traits . Like I would like to see axe nerf ( pooping way too much conditions ) ,dodge duration to 0.75s , IM -2 condis no breakstun just as start .Not every complaint is valid tho

I love how the 2nd reply to this thread is basically exhibit a for absolutely absurd nerfs that would eviscerate a number of mesmer builds.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Wouldnt say 'build'. Would rather say abilities/traits . Like I would like to see axe nerf ( pooping way too much conditions ) ,dodge duration to 0.75s , IM -2 condis no breakstun just as start .Not every complaint is valid tho

What builds hahahahaha ?If you play PvP and think mirage doesnt need nerfs and fine as it is... sounds like you desperately need to be carried to compete and beat way better players than you are .Calling this minor changes as absurd nerfs? You have any idea how delusional you are ?

Remember before HoT when PvP had devolved into 5 v 5 cele eles but everybody was still demanding Mesmer nerfs? It was like that after PoF but replace cele eles with Scourge and Spell Breaker.

At least Anet now does lots of skill splits, although you get the hilarious posts where people demand that Anet doesn't do any skill splits for Mesmer and nerf them in PvE because they think its too strong in PvP.

@Odik.4587 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Wouldnt say 'build'. Would rather say abilities/traits . Like I would like to see axe nerf ( pooping way too much conditions ) ,dodge duration to 0.75s , IM -2 condis no breakstun just as start .Not every complaint is valid tho

The dodge duration stays, it was clunky and trash tier at .75 seconds and hardly worth being called an elite spec. The stuff you listed doesn't come close to what actually needs to be fixed.

@Levetty.1279 said:Remember before HoT when PvP had devolved into 5 v 5 cele eles but everybody was still demanding Mesmer nerfs?

No, I remember threads showing things like a 4 man cele ele team (plus a thief) winning a an actual tournie as an example of how broken cele ele was.

It was like that after PoF but replace cele eles with Scourge and Spell Breaker.

The forums were littered with threads about scourge and spell breaker being OP.

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Wouldnt say 'build'. Would rather say abilities/traits . Like I would like to see axe nerf ( pooping way too much conditions ) ,dodge duration to 0.75s , IM -2 condis no breakstun just as start .Not every complaint is valid tho

Another delusional dud that claim mirage would become trash because mirage cloak would be 0.75s ? Being able to do whatever you want while evading isnt worth being called elite spec? EH ?And only 1 real reason why its felt bad with 0.75 because superspeed was 0.75 as wellEM doesnt need to be fixed for sure 11/10. Staff dropped for axe pistol for greater conditon spam shouldnt be looked at either . Absolutely nothing I listened not even close what should be looked at, indeed. You really think you are only one who have TRUE vision of real problems ?Even if everything would be nerfed as I said , this wont be enough to make mirage unviable (even tho would need way more changes to call it balanced)

@Odik.4587 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Wouldnt say 'build'. Would rather say abilities/traits . Like I would like to see axe nerf ( pooping way too much conditions ) ,dodge duration to 0.75s , IM -2 condis no breakstun just as start .Not every complaint is valid tho

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Wouldnt say 'build'. Would rather say abilities/traits . Like I would like to see axe nerf ( pooping way too much conditions ) ,dodge duration to 0.75s , IM -2 condis no breakstun just as start .Not every complaint is valid tho

EM needs a rework not a boring 2 condition removal because then one of Mirages few counters, conditions, is gone. I'm not claiming Mirage Cloak would become trash, it already was trash on preview, it was clunky and superspeed only functions in 3/8 directions. No, free action while dodging is not enough for an elite spec that alters almost nothing else about the class so a 1/4 second upgrade is appropriate. The conditions on Axe are more than manageable if you can apply counterpressure to the Mirage, which is not possible thanks to the Blinding Dissipation & Ineptitude synergy, preferably BD needs an ICD to prevent spamming but I could see Ineptitude getting it. As well Sigils of Energy and Adventurer Runes probably should be taken out of PvP as they inordinately benefit just a couple builds.

I'm not the only person who knows what the real issues are, I can just tell that you aren't.

@Odik.4587 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Wouldnt say 'build'. Would rather say abilities/traits . Like I would like to see axe nerf ( pooping way too much conditions ) ,dodge duration to 0.75s , IM -2 condis no breakstun just as start .Not every complaint is valid tho

Though @Pyroathiest.9031 and I are not friends.. He's among those who have no need to be carried.I have also observed that his ideas on buffs/nerfs are usually well founded. ( if I have often disagreed.)I suggest you take more care.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Wouldnt say 'build'. Would rather say abilities/traits . Like I would like to see axe nerf ( pooping way too much conditions ) ,dodge duration to 0.75s , IM -2 condis no breakstun just as start .Not every complaint is valid tho

Not really, it would eviscerate mirage builds but wouldn't touch core or chrono. Let's be pragmatic here, the nerfs are coming and probably finalised but nerfing mirage is far less detrimental to the class as a whole than the nerfs suggested in the PvP forum (make torch, pistol, BD, Ineptitude and EM useless) or the one's likely to be implemented on Tuesday. Torch, pistol, BD and ineptitude would make any other condition build on any other elite much worse if not unviable and potentially nerf a slew of power builds too which aren't that strong in the meta atm.

While I don't agree with mirage cloak becoming 0.75s because it was horrible in beta, nerfing axe in conditions only hits condi mirage and elusive mind there is no defending stunbreak on dodge. I'd personally like to see ambush skills get looked at a little as possible avenues to tone it down but I am also mindful that condi mirage isn't as bad as the people on the forums are crying about.