EDIT: ANET staff publicly representing company should be held to their own standards - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

EDIT: ANET staff publicly representing company should be held to their own standards

2456710

Comments

  • notebene.3190notebene.3190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    My only thought is, while we can try to reconstruct context using tweet or forum participation, it still doesn't provide an entire context for her experiences that led to her response.

    I also think it's being latched on to drive narratives or attack people or ideas by proxy. Like, convicting Al Capone on tax evasion. Like somehow this one tweet erases a greater reality. All of this just seems really overblown to me. Maybe a whataboutism that people on the wrong side of an argument are going to file away and pull it out later as some sort of proof that there really isn't a problem.

    In the event I don't get a chance, thank you all for the company and help when I needed it from time to time.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

    Being offended is a choice YOU make. So to suggest that there be consequences for something someone did that lead to you making the choice to be offended is pretty silly, no?

    I realize that we live in a world where being perpetually outraged about something is 'chic, but in reality, being an adult (usually) signifies being in control of your thoughts and emotions.

    Don't want to be offended by what someone says? Choose to not be.

  • rrusse.7058rrusse.7058 Member ✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    Being offended is a choice YOU make.

    Yep. Being offended by something is a matter of subjectivity to be sure. If what was said was offensive (which it wasn't) you can simply ignore it and not respond to it.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    I’m on team Jessica.

    That “rando” person is trying to assume the limitations with personalized story telling through the mmo format, is not about the limited mmo format, but the problem lies with how Anet approaches personalized story telling through the “constraints of the Living Story’s narrative design”

    ...

    Are you criticizing the argument of the "rando" person because he is male or female, and are thus just doing a thin wailed sexist comment? Can you prove it?

    That is what this discussing is about. Not the pro and con of the different forms of personalized story telling, but rather if the comment itself was sexist. If the rando were employed by Anet and just now accused you of being sexist on social media and you may end up receiving death threats, would you think thats acceptable behavior?

    The artistic merits of using different techniques for personalized story telling is relevant for a discussion about personalized story telling. I wish that was what we were discussing, but its rather irrelevant for the person being accused on social media for sexism.

    I don’t care about any PC mumbo jumbo here, or anywhere else... I commented on the catalyst of the argument, so stick to that and don’t assume anything else.

    So, you basically chose to overlook the actual topic of the thread in order to weigh in your opinion on a different matter.

    In other words, you're off topic.

    This thread is “let’s attack a dev”, so sorry if I’m not joining in on the bashing... I can post what I want, and it’s all related. This topic is getting closed anyway, off topic or not, and to assume otherwise is silly.

    And I don’t care about any PC police here, but if you want I can start pulling up player twitter comments and reposts so we can play the morality judge game? Everyone on social media is fair game now right?

    We are not attacking her, we are merely discussing what happened. And hoping that maybe something good comes from this.
    Acting this antagonistic and belligerent towards other members of the community over mere constructive criticism is unacceptable behavior, and if any of us did this, we most definitely would be infracted or banned.

    No, people are attacking her here and reddit for comments made on her personal Twitter. Nothing good will come of it. Ppl need to take their pc antics and self righteousness somewhere else, or we should start to scrutinize all their public social media accounts and attack with mob mentality justice. Equal justice right?

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    I’m on team Jessica.

    That “rando” person is trying to assume the limitations with personalized story telling through the mmo format, is not about the limited mmo format, but the problem lies with how Anet approaches personalized story telling through the “constraints of the Living Story’s narrative design”

    ...

    Are you criticizing the argument of the "rando" person because he is male or female, and are thus just doing a thin wailed sexist comment? Can you prove it?

    That is what this discussing is about. Not the pro and con of the different forms of personalized story telling, but rather if the comment itself was sexist. If the rando were employed by Anet and just now accused you of being sexist on social media and you may end up receiving death threats, would you think thats acceptable behavior?

    The artistic merits of using different techniques for personalized story telling is relevant for a discussion about personalized story telling. I wish that was what we were discussing, but its rather irrelevant for the person being accused on social media for sexism.

    I don’t care about any PC mumbo jumbo here, or anywhere else... I commented on the catalyst of the argument, so stick to that and don’t assume anything else.

    So, you basically chose to overlook the actual topic of the thread in order to weigh in your opinion on a different matter.

    In other words, you're off topic.

    This thread is “let’s attack a dev”, so sorry if I’m not joining in on the bashing... I can post what I want, and it’s all related. This topic is getting closed anyway, off topic or not, and to assume otherwise is silly.

    And I don’t care about any PC police here, but if you want I can start pulling up player twitter comments and reposts so we can play the morality judge game? Everyone on social media is fair game now right?

    We are not attacking her, we are merely discussing what happened. And hoping that maybe something good comes from this.
    Acting this antagonistic and belligerent towards other members of the community over mere constructive criticism is unacceptable behavior, and if any of us did this, we most definitely would be infracted or banned.

    No, people are attacking her here and reddit for comments made on her personal Twitter. Nothing good will come of it. Ppl need to take their pc antics and self righteousness somewhere else, or we should start to scrutinize all their public social media accounts and attack with mob mentality justice. Equal justice right?

    She is the only one showing "pc antics", she is the one who made the entire issue about gender, we are merely responding to it.
    Just as she is allowed to rant and make baseless accusations on the internet, we are free to give our opinion on it.

    Then keep this kitten on Twitter where it belongs. Ya ppl post it here I’m going to comment.

  • Vavume.8065Vavume.8065 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    @Dev said:
    "Don't expect me to pretend to like you here."

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:
    After reading those quotes, what do you feel about this person publicly representing ANET?

    I like this attitude, I appreciate honesty no matter what form it takes.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Dev said:
    "Don't expect me to pretend to like you here."

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:
    After reading those quotes, what do you feel about this person publicly representing ANET?

    I like this attitude, I appreciate honesty no matter what form it takes.

    Exactly.

  • Tolmos.8395Tolmos.8395 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    @Elestrae.4927 said:
    I've also dug into some of her other twitter posts and am absolutely convinced she's completely unhinged (tells people to go kill themselves, spews anti-Jewish propaganda everywhere...

    Holy kitten 0_o

    Please see the following response from down the page

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Tolmos.8395 said:

    @Elestrae.4927 said:
    I've also dug into some of her other twitter posts and am absolutely convinced she's completely unhinged (tells people to go kill themselves, spews anti-Jewish propaganda everywhere...

    Holy kitten 0_o

    I do have to correct this because I have also looked through her twitter posts. She is far from being anti-jewish. In fact, from all she has posted I believe she is actually Jewish herself (though could be wrong about that). I could be wrong, but I didn't find anything suggesting being against anything Jewish.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    kitten and armchair judges. :(

  • @Tolmos.8395 said:

    @Elestrae.4927 said:
    I've also dug into some of her other twitter posts and am absolutely convinced she's completely unhinged (tells people to go kill themselves, spews anti-Jewish propaganda everywhere...

    Holy kitten 0_o

    I do have to correct this because I have also looked through her twitter posts. She is far from being anti-jewish. In fact, from all she has posted I believe she is actually Jewish herself (though could be wrong about that). I could be wrong, but I didn't find anything suggesting being against anything Jewish.

  • Elestrae.4927Elestrae.4927 Member ✭✭

    Here's the Reddit thread that pretty much dug around in some of her twitter activity; https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/8w6fnb/anet_delivering_new_content_already/

    If you go down in posts far enough you'll see what I mean (twitter posts that is).

  • artemis.6781artemis.6781 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    @Elestrae.4927 said:
    Here's the Reddit thread that pretty much dug around in some of her twitter activity; https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/8w6fnb/anet_delivering_new_content_already/

    If you go down in posts far enough you'll see what I mean (twitter posts that is).

    I'm not sure what's more disturbing... Her tweets or you guys trying to find anything negative...

    Edit: but hey, look how alive the forums have become

  • rrusse.7058rrusse.7058 Member ✭✭

    @Tolmos.8395 said:

    People are saying Anet apparently contacted Deroir and asked him not to say anything about the situation, so I guess we'll hear from Anet soon.

    I definitely hope so. It would be unfortunate if they just tell Deroir to be quiet and then leave it at that.

    Really? Where was this first heard? Doesn't that seem pretty off if Arenanet is telling Deroir to be silent? If anything an apology is owed to him.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zoop.1360 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    snip

    You make very good points. Although it's not the first time something like this happens so I think Arenanet really needs to look into the situation. I get the idea JP is very stressed, so it might be worthwhile to have her go on leave for a bit to get some rest and properly destress and clear her mind.
    I'm more critical of Peter Fries, who poured fuel on the fire. He should know better than to butt in on an already volatile situation and should have left the situation to be handled by the PR team or community manager.

    People are saying Anet apparently contacted Deroir and asked him not to say anything about the situation, so I guess we'll hear from Anet soon.

    I don't know. I've defended coworkers before, because I know them and understand their point of view. Just as the dev over-reacted, so has the community. This is, at this point, nothing more than a witch hunt. The dev felt she was being singled out because she was a female dev. It's not likely but that's what her experience has taught her. The fuel on the fire isn't going to teach her any different.

    Peter Fries did what anyone would do for a friend. He wasn't trying to throw fuel on the fire. He was helping a friend. We've all done it. In all of this, he's the guy who's reaction I understand the most.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    snip

    You keep trying to make this a morality issue. It's an issue in behaviour. Keep twisting words around all you like, but you're making yourself look bad.

    You cannot point at all the bad guys in a large group of people when we are talking about the action of a single person, who has been in the business for SO MANY YEARS that they can apparently dismiss any slight of criticism who should DEFINITELY know better than telling customers to f off.

    In other words

    "Untag me rando kitten"

    Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.

  • Gorden.5483Gorden.5483 Member ✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    this has been discussed many time already. When your profile states where you work, talk about your work in that company and is public you are accountable of your public opinions. Any big company enforce this rule. Even companies like mc donalds enforce this rules even with their low level employees.

    Being "personal" does not avoid people which reads those associate you with the company you work for and see you as an extension of the PR department. Not that is needed anyway, reddit thread is already the 3 most upvoted for all time in gw2 reddit.

    I personally would argue, that even if you don't specifically state on your twitter account, or any account for that matter, that you are affiliated with the company you work with, you always represent the company in some form.
    The reason I say this, is that so long as people know who you work for, which in this day and age is quite easy to find out, you are always being associated with that company, which is also the reason, why companies frequently terminate work relationships with employees that share completely intolerable opinions publicly, no matter if their account is private and shows no affiliation or not.

  • Gorden.5483Gorden.5483 Member ✭✭

    @artemis.6781 said:

    @Gorden.5483 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    this has been discussed many time already. When your profile states where you work, talk about your work in that company and is public you are accountable of your public opinions. Any big company enforce this rule. Even companies like mc donalds enforce this rules even with their low level employees.

    Being "personal" does not avoid people which reads those associate you with the company you work for and see you as an extension of the PR department. Not that is needed anyway, reddit thread is already the 3 most upvoted for all time in gw2 reddit.

    I personally would argue, that even if you don't specifically state on your twitter account, or any account for that matter, that you are affiliated with the company you work with, you always represent the company in some form.
    The reason I say this, is that so long as people know who you work for, which in this day and age is quite easy to find out, you are always being associated with that company, which is also the reason, why companies frequently terminate work relationships with employees that share completely intolerable opinions publicly, no matter if their account is private and shows no affiliation or not.

    And that my friends is why you make a fake Twitter account!

    Pardon my ignorance, but what is that? I'm not using twitter a lot and have never heard of that before.

  • Jethro.9376Jethro.9376 Member ✭✭✭

    Another one of those loud minorty uproars, when something doesn't go a certain way...

  • @Gorden.5483 said:

    >

    And that my friends is why you make a fake Twitter account!

    Pardon my ignorance, but what is that? I'm not using twitter a lot and have never heard of that before.

    Gordon, a fake facebook or twitter is one not connected to your real name or anything identifiable to you easily and on which you can speak more freely without it being easy to find out who you are and where you work. Hope that is helpful :).

  • Gorden.5483Gorden.5483 Member ✭✭

    @Jethro.9376 said:
    Another one of those loud minorty uproars, when something doesn't go a certain way...

    Judging by the reddit thread about this being number 2 most upvoted thread in the entirety of the GW2 subreddit I would say it's not a loud minority uproar.
    Sure the majority of players don't go to reddit, but the majority of players don't even know about this, so I'll just consider those who do know.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Tolmos.8395 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    I’m on team Jessica.

    That “rando” person is trying to assume the limitations with personalized story telling through the mmo format, is not about the limited mmo format, but the problem lies with how Anet approaches personalized story telling through the “constraints of the Living Story’s narrative design”

    ...

    Are you criticizing the argument of the "rando" person because he is male or female, and are thus just doing a thin wailed sexist comment? Can you prove it?

    That is what this discussing is about. Not the pro and con of the different forms of personalized story telling, but rather if the comment itself was sexist. If the rando were employed by Anet and just now accused you of being sexist on social media and you may end up receiving death threats, would you think thats acceptable behavior?

    The artistic merits of using different techniques for personalized story telling is relevant for a discussion about personalized story telling. I wish that was what we were discussing, but its rather irrelevant for the person being accused on social media for sexism.

    I don’t care about any PC mumbo jumbo here, or anywhere else... I commented on the catalyst of the argument, so stick to that and don’t assume anything else.

    So, you basically chose to overlook the actual topic of the thread in order to weigh in your opinion on a different matter.

    In other words, you're off topic.

    This thread is “let’s attack a dev”, so sorry if I’m not joining in on the bashing... I can post what I want, and it’s all related. This topic is getting closed anyway, off topic or not, and to assume otherwise is silly.

    And I don’t care about any PC police here, but if you want I can start pulling up player twitter comments and reposts so we can play the morality judge game? Everyone on social media is fair game now right?

    We are not attacking her, we are merely discussing what happened. And hoping that maybe something good comes from this.
    Acting this antagonistic and belligerent towards other members of the community over mere constructive criticism is unacceptable behavior, and if any of us did this, we most definitely would be infracted or banned.

    No, people are attacking her here and reddit for comments made on her personal Twitter. Nothing good will come of it. Ppl need to take their pc antics and self righteousness somewhere else, or we should start to scrutinize all their public social media accounts and attack with mob mentality justice. Equal justice right?

    She is the only one showing "pc antics", she is the one who made the entire issue about gender, we are merely responding to it.
    Just as she is allowed to rant and make baseless accusations on the internet, we are free to give our opinion on it.

    Ya ppl post it here I’m going to comment.

    That is your right.

    Did Jessica break any twitter rules? Nope, but the morality police needs to act off some moral high ground and attack her on the official forums and reddit because they don’t agree with her.

    If anybody has an issue with what happened then keep it on Twitter where it belongs.

    This logic.. impossible to argue against. You're the master of discourse.

    Honestly astounded that you could turn the entire topic on its head and accuse the community pointing out misbehaviour as misbehaving the same way.

    Closing your eyes and ignoring it is your right as much as any other, but "keep it where it belongs"? Are you the sole arbiter of what goes where? And it's obviously related to GW2 & story, so talking about the people behind it makes logical sense too.

    Keep this kitten on Twitter where it belongs... Unless, of course, we should post all of our social media accounts so the community can talk morality on the official gw2 forums...

    Had this kitten been started here we can handle it here, but it didn’t. Get it?

    It was a discussion about Guild Wars 2, made by an employee working on Guild Wars 2 responding to a content creator for Guild Wars 2.

    Yea, I can see how that has no place here on the Guild Wars 2 forum. Absolutely agree it's totally off topic for here!

    Personally attacking a dev on the official forums is a no no. Or do you not understand that?

    Take your hypocritical arguments and morality meters to Twitter.

    Nobody is personally attacking her here but you keep riding that train because of the very few people who do. Do you not understand that you cannot take the words of a large group and weigh them up against a single person? Everybody is speaking for themselves, but whenever it suits your argument you pretend that everybody shares the same opinion. There is a HUGE difference.

    Upon thread creation it was an attack on the dev. How do you not understand that? Do I need to quote the official forum rules so you get it?

    There are different ways to address issues, and running to the game forums and reddit, from Twitter QQ, for mob justice is childish. Whomever had an issue could have easily brought up their concern via email to someone else, not this public axe grinding and mob pitchforks...

  • Gorden.5483Gorden.5483 Member ✭✭

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Gorden.5483 said:

    >

    And that my friends is why you make a fake Twitter account!

    Pardon my ignorance, but what is that? I'm not using twitter a lot and have never heard of that before.

    Gordon, a fake facebook or twitter is one not connected to your real name or anything identifiable to you easily and on which you can speak more freely without it being easy to find out who you are and where you work. Hope that is helpful :).

    Ah fake, when I first read it it said date, not fake. Probably autocorrect, but I was thinking it was something special I never heard of.

  • rrusse.7058rrusse.7058 Member ✭✭

    @Jethro.9376 said:
    Another one of those loud minorty uproars, when something doesn't go a certain way...

    What are you getting at exactly?

  • Haleydawn.3764Haleydawn.3764 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I dare say this tea is hotter than the Beauty Community tea on YouTube.

    I hope that a PR meeting occurred first thing this morning for damage control, I’m looking forward to seeing a post from Gaile Gray sometime today/tomorrow.

    I have no further responses for this discussion, people should leave their opinion and leave the post if they can’t be constructive in their feedback of JPs behaviour.

    Better get a wriggle on.

  • Tolmos.8395Tolmos.8395 Member ✭✭✭

    @rrusse.7058 said:

    @Jethro.9376 said:
    Another one of those loud minorty uproars, when something doesn't go a certain way...

    What are you getting at exactly?

    Looks like the post got deleted pretty quickly. Thanks for staying on top of the discussion, mods! Last thing we need is for it to be derailed by hateful kitten like that.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    @Jethro.9376 said:
    Another one of those loud minorty uproars, when something doesn't go a certain way...

    "a certain way" being: Not telling customers to f off and being extremely disrespectful towards the people who shape parts of the community, yes.

    "Don't speak up when people treat you poorly, it doesn't affect me personally so it's not relevant"

    Edit: Judging by your second response I might have misunderstood. Either way, this wasn't an attack towards you if you read it that way.

    Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.

This discussion has been closed.
©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.