That “rando” person is trying to assume the limitations with personalized story telling through the mmo format, is not about the limited mmo format, but the problem lies with how Anet approaches personalized story telling through the “constraints of the Living Story’s narrative design”
...
Are you criticizing the argument of the "rando" person because he is male or female, and are thus just doing a thin wailed sexist comment? Can you prove it?
That is what this discussing is about. Not the pro and con of the different forms of personalized story telling, but rather if the comment itself was sexist. If the rando were employed by Anet and just now accused you of being sexist on social media and you may end up receiving death threats, would you think thats acceptable behavior?
The artistic merits of using different techniques for personalized story telling is relevant for a discussion about personalized story telling. I wish that was what we were discussing, but its rather irrelevant for the person being accused on social media for sexism.
I don’t care about any PC mumbo jumbo here, or anywhere else... I commented on the catalyst of the argument, so stick to that and don’t assume anything else.
So, you basically chose to overlook the actual topic of the thread in order to weigh in your opinion on a different matter.
The whole gender topic is getting out of hands in the US. People became extremely oversensitive, everything has to be a political or gender topic. Just read some random comments somewhere and it quickly escalates in politics, gender stuff etc. It's ridiculous. Here in Europe people are - usually - very chill.
@Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:
Man... she really is a horrible person. To think someone can be so vile and sexist over some harmless and polite constructive criticism is absolutely ridiculous.
I don't think she's a horrible person, I really don't. We all have our strong beliefs about things we care about.
I think she's been 'monumentally stupid' in her public Twitter responses to valid constructive criticisms, all of which could have been avoided by either having a proper discussion as to why the Narrative team make the decisions they do, or to just ignore any poster.
JP would, evidently rather respond with "You're only questioning the decisions because I'm a girl", which incites the sexism aspect, even though it didn't exist in the tweets from Deroir to begin with.
(For some people it's obvious why the narrative is not as flexible: Budget, ease of story telling, etc But many who are so invested into this game and it's writing, want huge elaborations on why, and to be honest, NO ONE outside of Anet is entitled to know that information. JP could have responded to Deroir with literally "We do this because it makes our job of writing the story easier", but she didn't.)
My only thought is, while we can try to reconstruct context using tweet or forum participation, it still doesn't provide an entire context for her experiences that led to her response.
I also think it's being latched on to drive narratives or attack people or ideas by proxy. Like, convicting Al Capone on tax evasion. Like somehow this one tweet erases a greater reality. All of this just seems really overblown to me. Maybe a whataboutism that people on the wrong side of an argument are going to file away and pull it out later as some sort of proof that there really isn't a problem.
In the event I don't get a chance, thank you all for the company and help when I needed it from time to time.
@AliamRationem.5172 said:
Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.
It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.
My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.
If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.
Being offended is a choice YOU make. So to suggest that there be consequences for something someone did that lead to you making the choice to be offended is pretty silly, no?
I realize that we live in a world where being perpetually outraged about something is 'chic, but in reality, being an adult (usually) signifies being in control of your thoughts and emotions.
Don't want to be offended by what someone says? Choose to not be.
Read the whole thing, her response is pretty telling. How she could have possibly thought that publicly posting something like this is somehow a good idea is beyond me. Even ignoring the connection to A-Net, this just makes her look bad, not the other guy but the bubble is pretty strong I guess. It's just sad to see how people oftentimes get dismissive and start to use ad hominems if they can't properly address the arguments (or criticism) presented to them, not just in this case but in general.
Yep. Being offended by something is a matter of subjectivity to be sure. If what was said was offensive (which it wasn't) you can simply ignore it and not respond to it.
My wife and I were just discussing this topic a few moments ago. It's kind of heart breaking to have the curtain drawn back and see what's behind; we had no idea that Anet employees looked at their players and content creators this way, but seeing not only JPs response but also PF's as well, it really drives home just how little the opinions of those who play this game matter to the actual employees at the company. I can only imagine how player Feedback is viewed internally: just a bunch of amateurs telling professionals how to do their jobs, and any negative reaction towards a decision made in the game as being some personal, possibly sexist, attack on the employees. I now regret all the feedback I've given, knowing it's probably been viewed internally as "mansplaining" all this time.
Honestly, as a software developer, I can't imagine working for a project where I felt that negatively toward its users.
I've been playing this series since 2004, was a huge fan of the Guild Wars series in particular, and now that I know the workers at Anet feel that way, it's sort of jaded my view of the game. I support games as much for the game itself as for the company and amazing workers who run it, and honestly I feel like I made a big mistake with Arenanet if this is the company culture they are willing to make public.
That “rando” person is trying to assume the limitations with personalized story telling through the mmo format, is not about the limited mmo format, but the problem lies with how Anet approaches personalized story telling through the “constraints of the Living Story’s narrative design”
...
Are you criticizing the argument of the "rando" person because he is male or female, and are thus just doing a thin wailed sexist comment? Can you prove it?
That is what this discussing is about. Not the pro and con of the different forms of personalized story telling, but rather if the comment itself was sexist. If the rando were employed by Anet and just now accused you of being sexist on social media and you may end up receiving death threats, would you think thats acceptable behavior?
The artistic merits of using different techniques for personalized story telling is relevant for a discussion about personalized story telling. I wish that was what we were discussing, but its rather irrelevant for the person being accused on social media for sexism.
I don’t care about any PC mumbo jumbo here, or anywhere else... I commented on the catalyst of the argument, so stick to that and don’t assume anything else.
So, you basically chose to overlook the actual topic of the thread in order to weigh in your opinion on a different matter.
In other words, you're off topic.
This thread is “let’s attack a dev”, so sorry if I’m not joining in on the bashing... I can post what I want, and it’s all related. This topic is getting closed anyway, off topic or not, and to assume otherwise is silly.
And I don’t care about any PC police here, but if you want I can start pulling up player twitter comments and reposts so we can play the morality judge game? Everyone on social media is fair game now right?
We are not attacking her, we are merely discussing what happened. And hoping that maybe something good comes from this.
Acting this antagonistic and belligerent towards other members of the community over mere constructive criticism is unacceptable behavior, and if any of us did this, we most definitely would be infracted or banned.
No, people are attacking her here and reddit for comments made on her personal Twitter. Nothing good will come of it. Ppl need to take their pc antics and self righteousness somewhere else, or we should start to scrutinize all their public social media accounts and attack with mob mentality justice. Equal justice right?
That “rando” person is trying to assume the limitations with personalized story telling through the mmo format, is not about the limited mmo format, but the problem lies with how Anet approaches personalized story telling through the “constraints of the Living Story’s narrative design”
...
Are you criticizing the argument of the "rando" person because he is male or female, and are thus just doing a thin wailed sexist comment? Can you prove it?
That is what this discussing is about. Not the pro and con of the different forms of personalized story telling, but rather if the comment itself was sexist. If the rando were employed by Anet and just now accused you of being sexist on social media and you may end up receiving death threats, would you think thats acceptable behavior?
The artistic merits of using different techniques for personalized story telling is relevant for a discussion about personalized story telling. I wish that was what we were discussing, but its rather irrelevant for the person being accused on social media for sexism.
I don’t care about any PC mumbo jumbo here, or anywhere else... I commented on the catalyst of the argument, so stick to that and don’t assume anything else.
So, you basically chose to overlook the actual topic of the thread in order to weigh in your opinion on a different matter.
In other words, you're off topic.
This thread is “let’s attack a dev”, so sorry if I’m not joining in on the bashing... I can post what I want, and it’s all related. This topic is getting closed anyway, off topic or not, and to assume otherwise is silly.
And I don’t care about any PC police here, but if you want I can start pulling up player twitter comments and reposts so we can play the morality judge game? Everyone on social media is fair game now right?
We are not attacking her, we are merely discussing what happened. And hoping that maybe something good comes from this.
Acting this antagonistic and belligerent towards other members of the community over mere constructive criticism is unacceptable behavior, and if any of us did this, we most definitely would be infracted or banned.
No, people are attacking her here and reddit for comments made on her personal Twitter. Nothing good will come of it. Ppl need to take their pc antics and self righteousness somewhere else, or we should start to scrutinize all their public social media accounts and attack with mob mentality justice. Equal justice right?
That “rando” person is trying to assume the limitations with personalized story telling through the mmo format, is not about the limited mmo format, but the problem lies with how Anet approaches personalized story telling through the “constraints of the Living Story’s narrative design”
...
Are you criticizing the argument of the "rando" person because he is male or female, and are thus just doing a thin wailed sexist comment? Can you prove it?
That is what this discussing is about. Not the pro and con of the different forms of personalized story telling, but rather if the comment itself was sexist. If the rando were employed by Anet and just now accused you of being sexist on social media and you may end up receiving death threats, would you think thats acceptable behavior?
The artistic merits of using different techniques for personalized story telling is relevant for a discussion about personalized story telling. I wish that was what we were discussing, but its rather irrelevant for the person being accused on social media for sexism.
I don’t care about any PC mumbo jumbo here, or anywhere else... I commented on the catalyst of the argument, so stick to that and don’t assume anything else.
So, you basically chose to overlook the actual topic of the thread in order to weigh in your opinion on a different matter.
In other words, you're off topic.
This thread is “let’s attack a dev”, so sorry if I’m not joining in on the bashing... I can post what I want, and it’s all related. This topic is getting closed anyway, off topic or not, and to assume otherwise is silly.
And I don’t care about any PC police here, but if you want I can start pulling up player twitter comments and reposts so we can play the morality judge game? Everyone on social media is fair game now right?
We are not attacking her, we are merely discussing what happened. And hoping that maybe something good comes from this.
Acting this antagonistic and belligerent towards other members of the community over mere constructive criticism is unacceptable behavior, and if any of us did this, we most definitely would be infracted or banned.
No, people are attacking her here and reddit for comments made on her personal Twitter. Nothing good will come of it. Ppl need to take their pc antics and self righteousness somewhere else, or we should start to scrutinize all their public social media accounts and attack with mob mentality justice. Equal justice right?
So you're just dismissing it with the awful argument that its her own account. Get a grip.
You also generalize it saying that people are attacking her, it's far from everybody and reading the main reddit thread thoroughly yesterday and today it's a very very small minority of people calling her names or asking her to be fired. Most people are saying they are not okay with the general tone or bring an anecdote or two. You're also saying "this one person with a large following says horrible kitten but look at these 100 out of 9000 people who do the same!" clearly you're looking from a bad angle here.
Then again you're one of the contrarians on this forum so it is to be expected.
Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.
That “rando” person is trying to assume the limitations with personalized story telling through the mmo format, is not about the limited mmo format, but the problem lies with how Anet approaches personalized story telling through the “constraints of the Living Story’s narrative design”
...
Are you criticizing the argument of the "rando" person because he is male or female, and are thus just doing a thin wailed sexist comment? Can you prove it?
That is what this discussing is about. Not the pro and con of the different forms of personalized story telling, but rather if the comment itself was sexist. If the rando were employed by Anet and just now accused you of being sexist on social media and you may end up receiving death threats, would you think thats acceptable behavior?
The artistic merits of using different techniques for personalized story telling is relevant for a discussion about personalized story telling. I wish that was what we were discussing, but its rather irrelevant for the person being accused on social media for sexism.
I don’t care about any PC mumbo jumbo here, or anywhere else... I commented on the catalyst of the argument, so stick to that and don’t assume anything else.
So, you basically chose to overlook the actual topic of the thread in order to weigh in your opinion on a different matter.
In other words, you're off topic.
This thread is “let’s attack a dev”, so sorry if I’m not joining in on the bashing... I can post what I want, and it’s all related. This topic is getting closed anyway, off topic or not, and to assume otherwise is silly.
And I don’t care about any PC police here, but if you want I can start pulling up player twitter comments and reposts so we can play the morality judge game? Everyone on social media is fair game now right?
We are not attacking her, we are merely discussing what happened. And hoping that maybe something good comes from this.
Acting this antagonistic and belligerent towards other members of the community over mere constructive criticism is unacceptable behavior, and if any of us did this, we most definitely would be infracted or banned.
No, people are attacking her here and reddit for comments made on her personal Twitter. Nothing good will come of it. Ppl need to take their pc antics and self righteousness somewhere else, or we should start to scrutinize all their public social media accounts and attack with mob mentality justice. Equal justice right?
She is the only one showing "pc antics", she is the one who made the entire issue about gender, we are merely responding to it.
Just as she is allowed to rant and make baseless accusations on the internet, we are free to give our opinion on it.
There are two parts to this discussion. Jessica Price's explanation, btw, was spot on. An MMORPG is about getting players to the same place, not dividing them into infinitely small categories. So it's harder to do branching storyline. Even SWToR which was made by Bioware, known for their stories, suffered complaints about the story choices ultimately being meaningless. This is due to the structure of MMORPGs.
For sure, she could have handled the conversation better. She obviously felt frustrated after typing a long, complex and correct explanation that someone was just disagreeing with her, as if their expertise was somehow going to change anything she said. It was a bad way to react, there's no question about it.
I often have days where I'm in a bad mood for whatever reason and I snipe at people, I'm sure we all do. She should apologize, in my opinion, because though she may have encountered sexism in the past, I see no sign of it in this particular instance. But I think this whole thing has been blown waaaaaaaaaaay out of proportion.
What we have here is a dev who is obviously sensitive to criticism, possibly from past experience (reddit posted a whole thread early on when she signed on dissecting her twitter feed...it was a pretty negative thread), who over-reacted to someone disagreeing with her expert opinion. And she did over-react.
But this seems to be more about her sensitivity than anything Deroir did wrong. That's how I'm reading it anyway. And you know, considering the reception she got when she first got hired by the reddit crowd, I'm not surprised she's a bit sensitive.
That “rando” person is trying to assume the limitations with personalized story telling through the mmo format, is not about the limited mmo format, but the problem lies with how Anet approaches personalized story telling through the “constraints of the Living Story’s narrative design”
...
Are you criticizing the argument of the "rando" person because he is male or female, and are thus just doing a thin wailed sexist comment? Can you prove it?
That is what this discussing is about. Not the pro and con of the different forms of personalized story telling, but rather if the comment itself was sexist. If the rando were employed by Anet and just now accused you of being sexist on social media and you may end up receiving death threats, would you think thats acceptable behavior?
The artistic merits of using different techniques for personalized story telling is relevant for a discussion about personalized story telling. I wish that was what we were discussing, but its rather irrelevant for the person being accused on social media for sexism.
I don’t care about any PC mumbo jumbo here, or anywhere else... I commented on the catalyst of the argument, so stick to that and don’t assume anything else.
So, you basically chose to overlook the actual topic of the thread in order to weigh in your opinion on a different matter.
In other words, you're off topic.
This thread is “let’s attack a dev”, so sorry if I’m not joining in on the bashing... I can post what I want, and it’s all related. This topic is getting closed anyway, off topic or not, and to assume otherwise is silly.
And I don’t care about any PC police here, but if you want I can start pulling up player twitter comments and reposts so we can play the morality judge game? Everyone on social media is fair game now right?
We are not attacking her, we are merely discussing what happened. And hoping that maybe something good comes from this.
Acting this antagonistic and belligerent towards other members of the community over mere constructive criticism is unacceptable behavior, and if any of us did this, we most definitely would be infracted or banned.
No, people are attacking her here and reddit for comments made on her personal Twitter. Nothing good will come of it. Ppl need to take their pc antics and self righteousness somewhere else, or we should start to scrutinize all their public social media accounts and attack with mob mentality justice. Equal justice right?
She is the only one showing "pc antics", she is the one who made the entire issue about gender, we are merely responding to it.
Just as she is allowed to rant and make baseless accusations on the internet, we are free to give our opinion on it.
Then keep this kitten on Twitter where it belongs. Ya ppl post it here I’m going to comment.
That “rando” person is trying to assume the limitations with personalized story telling through the mmo format, is not about the limited mmo format, but the problem lies with how Anet approaches personalized story telling through the “constraints of the Living Story’s narrative design”
...
Are you criticizing the argument of the "rando" person because he is male or female, and are thus just doing a thin wailed sexist comment? Can you prove it?
That is what this discussing is about. Not the pro and con of the different forms of personalized story telling, but rather if the comment itself was sexist. If the rando were employed by Anet and just now accused you of being sexist on social media and you may end up receiving death threats, would you think thats acceptable behavior?
The artistic merits of using different techniques for personalized story telling is relevant for a discussion about personalized story telling. I wish that was what we were discussing, but its rather irrelevant for the person being accused on social media for sexism.
I don’t care about any PC mumbo jumbo here, or anywhere else... I commented on the catalyst of the argument, so stick to that and don’t assume anything else.
So, you basically chose to overlook the actual topic of the thread in order to weigh in your opinion on a different matter.
In other words, you're off topic.
This thread is “let’s attack a dev”, so sorry if I’m not joining in on the bashing... I can post what I want, and it’s all related. This topic is getting closed anyway, off topic or not, and to assume otherwise is silly.
And I don’t care about any PC police here, but if you want I can start pulling up player twitter comments and reposts so we can play the morality judge game? Everyone on social media is fair game now right?
We are not attacking her, we are merely discussing what happened. And hoping that maybe something good comes from this.
Acting this antagonistic and belligerent towards other members of the community over mere constructive criticism is unacceptable behavior, and if any of us did this, we most definitely would be infracted or banned.
No, people are attacking her here and reddit for comments made on her personal Twitter. Nothing good will come of it. Ppl need to take their pc antics and self righteousness somewhere else, or we should start to scrutinize all their public social media accounts and attack with mob mentality justice. Equal justice right?
She is the only one showing "pc antics", she is the one who made the entire issue about gender, we are merely responding to it.
Just as she is allowed to rant and make baseless accusations on the internet, we are free to give our opinion on it.
@Swagger.1459 said:
No, people are attacking her here and reddit for comments made on her personal Twitter. Nothing good will come of it. Ppl need to take their pc antics and self righteousness somewhere else, or we should start to scrutinize all their public social media accounts and attack with mob mentality justice. Equal justice right?
Made on her personal twitter that shows Arenanet as her employer, makes direct conversation about Arenanet game topics, and attacks people for making sensible and polite conversation about those Arenanet topics by referencing the fact that she works at Arenanet and they do not? Also, her personal twitter where another Arenanet employee joins in to lob shame at the individuals who dared to try to have a polite discussion with her?
This isn't some situation where a person, on their anonymous and private personal twitter, says "The dress was white and blue" and gets demolished by rabid fans of their employers. This is a situation where someone identified their twitter as a feed to discuss topics related to their job, began a discussion related to their job, and then called anyone who even slightly disagreed a sexist pig.
The fact that another Anet employee supported this viewpoint really drives home that this isn't some one off thing; it definitely helps reveal a bit how our feedback as a community is received internally.
I'm shocked this person is even allowed to publicly label herself as an Anet employee on a platform she clearly uses to spew political garbage on. I've also dug into some of her other twitter posts and am absolutely convinced she's completely unhinged (tells people to go kill themselves, spews anti-Jewish propaganda everywhere... think Mel Gibson when he's drunk kind of stuff and the insane sexism stuff).
Also, you need to realize that it doesn't matter if this dev uses her own personal twitter or facebook or whatever, she CLEARLY states that she's an ArenaNet employee and developer so basically whenever she interacts with someone, she does that as a direct representative of the company she advertises she's employed for.
I'm employed in a large corporation as well and whenever I communicate with people on media that I advertise the company I work for as well, I need to be careful with what I say. Even if it would be on twitter or anything else, if I start calling people out and insulting them then I can expect to be fired from my position relatively quick. I'm surprised this dev is still employed by Anet since they need to think of their customers first. The only fitting action Anet can do with this dev is indeed to fire her.
@Elestrae.4927 said:
I've also dug into some of her other twitter posts and am absolutely convinced she's completely unhinged (tells people to go kill themselves, spews anti-Jewish propaganda everywhere...
Holy kitten 0_o
Please see the following response from down the page
@Elestrae.4927 said:
I've also dug into some of her other twitter posts and am absolutely convinced she's completely unhinged (tells people to go kill themselves, spews anti-Jewish propaganda everywhere...
Holy kitten 0_o
I do have to correct this because I have also looked through her twitter posts. She is far from being anti-jewish. In fact, from all she has posted I believe she is actually Jewish herself (though could be wrong about that). I could be wrong, but I didn't find anything suggesting being against anything Jewish.
You make very good points. Although it's not the first time something like this happens so I think Arenanet really needs to look into the situation. I get the idea JP is very stressed, so it might be worthwhile to have her go on leave for a bit to get some rest and properly destress and clear her mind.
I'm more critical of Peter Fries, who poured fuel on the fire. He should know better than to butt in on an already volatile situation and should have left the situation to be handled by the PR team or community manager.
People are saying Anet apparently contacted Deroir and asked him not to say anything about the situation, so I guess we'll hear from Anet soon.
She is right, and so is he on the actual game discussion. If they took the PC anywhere but the middle we would complain, though they avoid monomyth and any sort of change in the PC, which makes our character rather bland. But the narrative is pretty bad on a pure writing perspective. The dialogue is very shallow and the only memorable part is Canach and towers. If they can't accept us saying we want better, as paying customers, they need to move on. So to get on a high horse and claim sexism is past misguided but outrageous. For the male dev to then step in and claim we are laymen, many of us will not be myself included and that their twitters are private is again utterly wrong.
Anyone with any social media experience with a large company will tell you this. If you are in the public eye, say a politician, a police officer, a teacher, a youth worker, etc etc, and you post extremist and unfounded opinions like her, then you are representing your employer to those reading them. She has 10k followers, likely fans of this and her previous employer. Go through her tweet history and it is post after post of sexist remarks and some verging on racist, this is not like interrupting a small private conversation with an unwelcome opinion, but joining a public discussion instigated by her to 10k people. No where on her twitter bio does she claim, her views are her own and not Anets. If I were in their PR team I would be sweating right now.
Bottom line, she is driving away your player base by calling us stupid and sexist if we dare to disagree with her. Not to mention, rando a**hat...
And no, July 4th is not an excuse, if you are off work, do not post about work or you will get asked about work. Not to mention the majority of the world do no celebrate this holiday...
@Elestrae.4927 said:
I've also dug into some of her other twitter posts and am absolutely convinced she's completely unhinged (tells people to go kill themselves, spews anti-Jewish propaganda everywhere...
Holy kitten 0_o
I do have to correct this because I have also looked through her twitter posts. She is far from being anti-jewish. In fact, from all she has posted I believe she is actually Jewish herself (though could be wrong about that). I could be wrong, but I didn't find anything suggesting being against anything Jewish.
@Elestrae.4927 said:
I've also dug into some of her other twitter posts and am absolutely convinced she's completely unhinged (tells people to go kill themselves, spews anti-Jewish propaganda everywhere...
Holy kitten 0_o
I do have to correct this because I have also looked through her twitter posts. She is far from being anti-jewish. In fact, from all she has posted I believe she is actually Jewish herself (though could be wrong about that). I could be wrong, but I didn't find anything suggesting being against anything Jewish.
Ok, that's good at least. It's one thing to just be a miserable person, but it's another to be miserable AND tell people to go kill themselves while being rabidly anti semitic. Hopefully that won't turn into some rumor and spread; her toxic responses are bad enough on their own merit, without people making up fake reasons to be mad at her.
People are saying Anet apparently contacted Deroir and asked him not to say anything about the situation, so I guess we'll hear from Anet soon.
I definitely hope so. It would be unfortunate if they just tell Deroir to be quiet and then leave it at that.
People are saying Anet apparently contacted Deroir and asked him not to say anything about the situation, so I guess we'll hear from Anet soon.
I definitely hope so. It would be unfortunate if they just tell Deroir to be quiet and then leave it at that.
Really? Where was this first heard? Doesn't that seem pretty off if Arenanet is telling Deroir to be silent? If anything an apology is owed to him.
I mean, if they are planning to apologize then I can see them reaching out to him to ask that. He's a content creator, so folks are going to be more prone to listening to him. If he made a big deal about being treated so poorly, it would be a PR nightmare for Arenanet. It may seem callous, and would be if Anet didn't make a public apology after, but if they ARE planning to apologize then it's definitely a good move to ask him to hold his horses before saying something that could fuel the fire. In general, games and content creators have a close relationship, so it's not beyond reason to ask that of him.
People are saying Anet apparently contacted Deroir and asked him not to say anything about the situation, so I guess we'll hear from Anet soon.
I definitely hope so. It would be unfortunate if they just tell Deroir to be quiet and then leave it at that.
Really? Where was this first heard? Doesn't that seem pretty off if Arenanet is telling Deroir to be silent? If anything an apology is owed to him.
He isn't supposed to stoke the fire while they sort things out. Statement from them will come in the following days. At least that's what would make sense & is what most companies do in such situations.
If you go down in posts far enough you'll see what I mean (twitter posts that is).
I'm not sure what's more disturbing... Her tweets or you guys trying to find anything negative...
Edit: but hey, look how alive the forums have become
If you want another great example of why telling your customers to "kitten off" is bad practice, look at the comic industry. You can't defend this behaviour without a serious portion of "turning a blind eye"
Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.
@Tolmos.8395 said:
I mean, if they are planning to apologize then I can see them reaching out to him to ask that. He's a content creator, so folks are going to be more prone to listening to him. If he made a big deal about being treated so poorly, it would be a PR nightmare for Arenanet. It may seem callous, and would be if Anet didn't make a public apology after, but if they ARE planning to apologize then it's definitely a good move to ask him to hold his horses before saying something that could fuel the fire. In general, games and content creators have a close relationship, so it's not beyond reason to ask that of him.
Oh I definitely hope they plan to! That is a very good insight, thank you for the observation .
You make very good points. Although it's not the first time something like this happens so I think Arenanet really needs to look into the situation. I get the idea JP is very stressed, so it might be worthwhile to have her go on leave for a bit to get some rest and properly destress and clear her mind.
I'm more critical of Peter Fries, who poured fuel on the fire. He should know better than to butt in on an already volatile situation and should have left the situation to be handled by the PR team or community manager.
People are saying Anet apparently contacted Deroir and asked him not to say anything about the situation, so I guess we'll hear from Anet soon.
I don't know. I've defended coworkers before, because I know them and understand their point of view. Just as the dev over-reacted, so has the community. This is, at this point, nothing more than a witch hunt. The dev felt she was being singled out because she was a female dev. It's not likely but that's what her experience has taught her. The fuel on the fire isn't going to teach her any different.
Peter Fries did what anyone would do for a friend. He wasn't trying to throw fuel on the fire. He was helping a friend. We've all done it. In all of this, he's the guy who's reaction I understand the most.
You keep trying to make this a morality issue. It's an issue in behaviour. Keep twisting words around all you like, but you're making yourself look bad.
You cannot point at all the bad guys in a large group of people when we are talking about the action of a single person, who has been in the business for SO MANY YEARS that they can apparently dismiss any slight of criticism who should DEFINITELY know better than telling customers to f off.
In other words
"Untag me rando kitten"
Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.
All I know is I won't be investing any more money into this game until this has been addressed and if it's not I'll just find a new game. There are plenty of options.
No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.
@AliamRationem.5172 said:
Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.
It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.
My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.
this has been discussed many time already. When your profile states where you work, talk about your work in that company and is public you are accountable of your public opinions. Any big company enforce this rule. Even companies like mc donalds enforce this rules even with their low level employees.
Being "personal" does not avoid people which reads those associate you with the company you work for and see you as an extension of the PR department. Not that is needed anyway, reddit thread is already the 3 most upvoted for all time in gw2 reddit.
I personally would argue, that even if you don't specifically state on your twitter account, or any account for that matter, that you are affiliated with the company you work with, you always represent the company in some form.
The reason I say this, is that so long as people know who you work for, which in this day and age is quite easy to find out, you are always being associated with that company, which is also the reason, why companies frequently terminate work relationships with employees that share completely intolerable opinions publicly, no matter if their account is private and shows no affiliation or not.
@AliamRationem.5172 said:
Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.
It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.
My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.
this has been discussed many time already. When your profile states where you work, talk about your work in that company and is public you are accountable of your public opinions. Any big company enforce this rule. Even companies like mc donalds enforce this rules even with their low level employees.
Being "personal" does not avoid people which reads those associate you with the company you work for and see you as an extension of the PR department. Not that is needed anyway, reddit thread is already the 3 most upvoted for all time in gw2 reddit.
I personally would argue, that even if you don't specifically state on your twitter account, or any account for that matter, that you are affiliated with the company you work with, you always represent the company in some form.
The reason I say this, is that so long as people know who you work for, which in this day and age is quite easy to find out, you are always being associated with that company, which is also the reason, why companies frequently terminate work relationships with employees that share completely intolerable opinions publicly, no matter if their account is private and shows no affiliation or not.
And that my friends is why you make a fake Twitter account!
@AliamRationem.5172 said:
Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.
It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.
My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.
this has been discussed many time already. When your profile states where you work, talk about your work in that company and is public you are accountable of your public opinions. Any big company enforce this rule. Even companies like mc donalds enforce this rules even with their low level employees.
Being "personal" does not avoid people which reads those associate you with the company you work for and see you as an extension of the PR department. Not that is needed anyway, reddit thread is already the 3 most upvoted for all time in gw2 reddit.
I personally would argue, that even if you don't specifically state on your twitter account, or any account for that matter, that you are affiliated with the company you work with, you always represent the company in some form.
The reason I say this, is that so long as people know who you work for, which in this day and age is quite easy to find out, you are always being associated with that company, which is also the reason, why companies frequently terminate work relationships with employees that share completely intolerable opinions publicly, no matter if their account is private and shows no affiliation or not.
And that my friends is why you make a fake Twitter account!
Pardon my ignorance, but what is that? I'm not using twitter a lot and have never heard of that before.
And that my friends is why you make a fake Twitter account!
Pardon my ignorance, but what is that? I'm not using twitter a lot and have never heard of that before.
Gordon, a fake facebook or twitter is one not connected to your real name or anything identifiable to you easily and on which you can speak more freely without it being easy to find out who you are and where you work. Hope that is helpful .
I personally would argue, that even if you don't specifically state on your twitter account, or any account for that matter, that you are affiliated with the company you work with, you always represent the company in some form.
The reason I say this, is that so long as people know who you work for, which in this day and age is quite easy to find out, you are always being associated with that company, which is also the reason, why companies frequently terminate work relationships with employees that share completely intolerable opinions publicly, no matter if their account is private and shows no affiliation or not.
That and the tweet in question that started this whole thing was very clearly about this game, company and her work. So would it be a fair assessment that the tweet is affiliated with this game? I'd say so.
That “rando” person is trying to assume the limitations with personalized story telling through the mmo format, is not about the limited mmo format, but the problem lies with how Anet approaches personalized story telling through the “constraints of the Living Story’s narrative design”
...
Are you criticizing the argument of the "rando" person because he is male or female, and are thus just doing a thin wailed sexist comment? Can you prove it?
That is what this discussing is about. Not the pro and con of the different forms of personalized story telling, but rather if the comment itself was sexist. If the rando were employed by Anet and just now accused you of being sexist on social media and you may end up receiving death threats, would you think thats acceptable behavior?
The artistic merits of using different techniques for personalized story telling is relevant for a discussion about personalized story telling. I wish that was what we were discussing, but its rather irrelevant for the person being accused on social media for sexism.
I don’t care about any PC mumbo jumbo here, or anywhere else... I commented on the catalyst of the argument, so stick to that and don’t assume anything else.
So, you basically chose to overlook the actual topic of the thread in order to weigh in your opinion on a different matter.
In other words, you're off topic.
This thread is “let’s attack a dev”, so sorry if I’m not joining in on the bashing... I can post what I want, and it’s all related. This topic is getting closed anyway, off topic or not, and to assume otherwise is silly.
And I don’t care about any PC police here, but if you want I can start pulling up player twitter comments and reposts so we can play the morality judge game? Everyone on social media is fair game now right?
We are not attacking her, we are merely discussing what happened. And hoping that maybe something good comes from this.
Acting this antagonistic and belligerent towards other members of the community over mere constructive criticism is unacceptable behavior, and if any of us did this, we most definitely would be infracted or banned.
No, people are attacking her here and reddit for comments made on her personal Twitter. Nothing good will come of it. Ppl need to take their pc antics and self righteousness somewhere else, or we should start to scrutinize all their public social media accounts and attack with mob mentality justice. Equal justice right?
She is the only one showing "pc antics", she is the one who made the entire issue about gender, we are merely responding to it.
Just as she is allowed to rant and make baseless accusations on the internet, we are free to give our opinion on it.
Ya ppl post it here I’m going to comment.
That is your right.
Did Jessica break any twitter rules? Nope, but the morality police needs to act off some moral high ground and attack her on the official forums and reddit because they don’t agree with her.
If anybody has an issue with what happened then keep it on Twitter where it belongs.
This logic.. impossible to argue against. You're the master of discourse.
Honestly astounded that you could turn the entire topic on its head and accuse the community pointing out misbehaviour as misbehaving the same way.
Closing your eyes and ignoring it is your right as much as any other, but "keep it where it belongs"? Are you the sole arbiter of what goes where? And it's obviously related to GW2 & story, so talking about the people behind it makes logical sense too.
Keep this kitten on Twitter where it belongs... Unless, of course, we should post all of our social media accounts so the community can talk morality on the official gw2 forums...
Had this kitten been started here we can handle it here, but it didn’t. Get it?
It was a discussion about Guild Wars 2, made by an employee working on Guild Wars 2 responding to a content creator for Guild Wars 2.
Yea, I can see how that has no place here on the Guild Wars 2 forum. Absolutely agree it's totally off topic for here!
Personally attacking a dev on the official forums is a no no. Or do you not understand that?
Denouncing toxic and harmful behavior is not now, nor has it ever been, a personal attack. It is exceptionally reasonable that an ArenaNet employee attacking a Guild Wars 2 content creator during a Guild Wars 2 discussion should warrant some level of conversation on the Guild Wars 2 official forums, especially considering another ArenaNet employee supported the attack.
@Jethro.9376 said:
Another one of those loud minorty uproars, when something doesn't go a certain way...
Judging by the reddit thread about this being number 2 most upvoted thread in the entirety of the GW2 subreddit I would say it's not a loud minority uproar.
Sure the majority of players don't go to reddit, but the majority of players don't even know about this, so I'll just consider those who do know.
That “rando” person is trying to assume the limitations with personalized story telling through the mmo format, is not about the limited mmo format, but the problem lies with how Anet approaches personalized story telling through the “constraints of the Living Story’s narrative design”
...
Are you criticizing the argument of the "rando" person because he is male or female, and are thus just doing a thin wailed sexist comment? Can you prove it?
That is what this discussing is about. Not the pro and con of the different forms of personalized story telling, but rather if the comment itself was sexist. If the rando were employed by Anet and just now accused you of being sexist on social media and you may end up receiving death threats, would you think thats acceptable behavior?
The artistic merits of using different techniques for personalized story telling is relevant for a discussion about personalized story telling. I wish that was what we were discussing, but its rather irrelevant for the person being accused on social media for sexism.
I don’t care about any PC mumbo jumbo here, or anywhere else... I commented on the catalyst of the argument, so stick to that and don’t assume anything else.
So, you basically chose to overlook the actual topic of the thread in order to weigh in your opinion on a different matter.
In other words, you're off topic.
This thread is “let’s attack a dev”, so sorry if I’m not joining in on the bashing... I can post what I want, and it’s all related. This topic is getting closed anyway, off topic or not, and to assume otherwise is silly.
And I don’t care about any PC police here, but if you want I can start pulling up player twitter comments and reposts so we can play the morality judge game? Everyone on social media is fair game now right?
We are not attacking her, we are merely discussing what happened. And hoping that maybe something good comes from this.
Acting this antagonistic and belligerent towards other members of the community over mere constructive criticism is unacceptable behavior, and if any of us did this, we most definitely would be infracted or banned.
No, people are attacking her here and reddit for comments made on her personal Twitter. Nothing good will come of it. Ppl need to take their pc antics and self righteousness somewhere else, or we should start to scrutinize all their public social media accounts and attack with mob mentality justice. Equal justice right?
She is the only one showing "pc antics", she is the one who made the entire issue about gender, we are merely responding to it.
Just as she is allowed to rant and make baseless accusations on the internet, we are free to give our opinion on it.
Ya ppl post it here I’m going to comment.
That is your right.
Did Jessica break any twitter rules? Nope, but the morality police needs to act off some moral high ground and attack her on the official forums and reddit because they don’t agree with her.
If anybody has an issue with what happened then keep it on Twitter where it belongs.
This logic.. impossible to argue against. You're the master of discourse.
Honestly astounded that you could turn the entire topic on its head and accuse the community pointing out misbehaviour as misbehaving the same way.
Closing your eyes and ignoring it is your right as much as any other, but "keep it where it belongs"? Are you the sole arbiter of what goes where? And it's obviously related to GW2 & story, so talking about the people behind it makes logical sense too.
Keep this kitten on Twitter where it belongs... Unless, of course, we should post all of our social media accounts so the community can talk morality on the official gw2 forums...
Had this kitten been started here we can handle it here, but it didn’t. Get it?
It was a discussion about Guild Wars 2, made by an employee working on Guild Wars 2 responding to a content creator for Guild Wars 2.
Yea, I can see how that has no place here on the Guild Wars 2 forum. Absolutely agree it's totally off topic for here!
Personally attacking a dev on the official forums is a no no. Or do you not understand that?
Take your hypocritical arguments and morality meters to Twitter.
Nobody is personally attacking her here but you keep riding that train because of the very few people who do. Do you not understand that you cannot take the words of a large group and weigh them up against a single person? Everybody is speaking for themselves, but whenever it suits your argument you pretend that everybody shares the same opinion. There is a HUGE difference.
Upon thread creation it was an attack on the dev. How do you not understand that? Do I need to quote the official forum rules so you get it?
There are different ways to address issues, and running to the game forums and reddit, from Twitter QQ, for mob justice is childish. Whomever had an issue could have easily brought up their concern via email to someone else, not this public axe grinding and mob pitchforks...
And that my friends is why you make a fake Twitter account!
Pardon my ignorance, but what is that? I'm not using twitter a lot and have never heard of that before.
Gordon, a fake facebook or twitter is one not connected to your real name or anything identifiable to you easily and on which you can speak more freely without it being easy to find out who you are and where you work. Hope that is helpful .
Ah fake, when I first read it it said date, not fake. Probably autocorrect, but I was thinking it was something special I never heard of.
I dare say this tea is hotter than the Beauty Community tea on YouTube.
I hope that a PR meeting occurred first thing this morning for damage control, I’m looking forward to seeing a post from Gaile Gray sometime today/tomorrow.
I have no further responses for this discussion, people should leave their opinion and leave the post if they can’t be constructive in their feedback of JPs behaviour.
@Jethro.9376 said:
Another one of those loud minorty uproars, when something doesn't go a certain way...
What are you getting at exactly?
Looks like the post got deleted pretty quickly. Thanks for staying on top of the discussion, mods! Last thing we need is for it to be derailed by hateful kitten like that.
Comments
So, you basically chose to overlook the actual topic of the thread in order to weigh in your opinion on a different matter.
In other words, you're off topic.
The whole gender topic is getting out of hands in the US. People became extremely oversensitive, everything has to be a political or gender topic. Just read some random comments somewhere and it quickly escalates in politics, gender stuff etc. It's ridiculous. Here in Europe people are - usually - very chill.
I don't think she's a horrible person, I really don't. We all have our strong beliefs about things we care about.
I think she's been 'monumentally stupid' in her public Twitter responses to valid constructive criticisms, all of which could have been avoided by either having a proper discussion as to why the Narrative team make the decisions they do, or to just ignore any poster.
JP would, evidently rather respond with "You're only questioning the decisions because I'm a girl", which incites the sexism aspect, even though it didn't exist in the tweets from Deroir to begin with.
(For some people it's obvious why the narrative is not as flexible: Budget, ease of story telling, etc But many who are so invested into this game and it's writing, want huge elaborations on why, and to be honest, NO ONE outside of Anet is entitled to know that information. JP could have responded to Deroir with literally "We do this because it makes our job of writing the story easier", but she didn't.)
Better get a wriggle on.
My only thought is, while we can try to reconstruct context using tweet or forum participation, it still doesn't provide an entire context for her experiences that led to her response.
I also think it's being latched on to drive narratives or attack people or ideas by proxy. Like, convicting Al Capone on tax evasion. Like somehow this one tweet erases a greater reality. All of this just seems really overblown to me. Maybe a whataboutism that people on the wrong side of an argument are going to file away and pull it out later as some sort of proof that there really isn't a problem.
In the event I don't get a chance, thank you all for the company and help when I needed it from time to time.
Being offended is a choice YOU make. So to suggest that there be consequences for something someone did that lead to you making the choice to be offended is pretty silly, no?
I realize that we live in a world where being perpetually outraged about something is 'chic, but in reality, being an adult (usually) signifies being in control of your thoughts and emotions.
Don't want to be offended by what someone says? Choose to not be.
Read the whole thing, her response is pretty telling. How she could have possibly thought that publicly posting something like this is somehow a good idea is beyond me. Even ignoring the connection to A-Net, this just makes her look bad, not the other guy but the bubble is pretty strong I guess. It's just sad to see how people oftentimes get dismissive and start to use ad hominems if they can't properly address the arguments (or criticism) presented to them, not just in this case but in general.
Yep. Being offended by something is a matter of subjectivity to be sure. If what was said was offensive (which it wasn't) you can simply ignore it and not respond to it.
My wife and I were just discussing this topic a few moments ago. It's kind of heart breaking to have the curtain drawn back and see what's behind; we had no idea that Anet employees looked at their players and content creators this way, but seeing not only JPs response but also PF's as well, it really drives home just how little the opinions of those who play this game matter to the actual employees at the company. I can only imagine how player Feedback is viewed internally: just a bunch of amateurs telling professionals how to do their jobs, and any negative reaction towards a decision made in the game as being some personal, possibly sexist, attack on the employees. I now regret all the feedback I've given, knowing it's probably been viewed internally as "mansplaining" all this time.
Honestly, as a software developer, I can't imagine working for a project where I felt that negatively toward its users.
I've been playing this series since 2004, was a huge fan of the Guild Wars series in particular, and now that I know the workers at Anet feel that way, it's sort of jaded my view of the game. I support games as much for the game itself as for the company and amazing workers who run it, and honestly I feel like I made a big mistake with Arenanet if this is the company culture they are willing to make public.
Honestly, it's just a shame.
No, people are attacking her here and reddit for comments made on her personal Twitter. Nothing good will come of it. Ppl need to take their pc antics and self righteousness somewhere else, or we should start to scrutinize all their public social media accounts and attack with mob mentality justice. Equal justice right?
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62658/alliance-design-that-stops-the-qq
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62555/putting-fun-back-into-designs-and-balancing
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9804/idea-wvw-only-movement-skills
So you're just dismissing it with the awful argument that its her own account. Get a grip.
You also generalize it saying that people are attacking her, it's far from everybody and reading the main reddit thread thoroughly yesterday and today it's a very very small minority of people calling her names or asking her to be fired. Most people are saying they are not okay with the general tone or bring an anecdote or two. You're also saying "this one person with a large following says horrible kitten but look at these 100 out of 9000 people who do the same!" clearly you're looking from a bad angle here.
Then again you're one of the contrarians on this forum so it is to be expected.
Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.
She is the only one showing "pc antics", she is the one who made the entire issue about gender, we are merely responding to it.
Just as she is allowed to rant and make baseless accusations on the internet, we are free to give our opinion on it.
There are two parts to this discussion. Jessica Price's explanation, btw, was spot on. An MMORPG is about getting players to the same place, not dividing them into infinitely small categories. So it's harder to do branching storyline. Even SWToR which was made by Bioware, known for their stories, suffered complaints about the story choices ultimately being meaningless. This is due to the structure of MMORPGs.
For sure, she could have handled the conversation better. She obviously felt frustrated after typing a long, complex and correct explanation that someone was just disagreeing with her, as if their expertise was somehow going to change anything she said. It was a bad way to react, there's no question about it.
I often have days where I'm in a bad mood for whatever reason and I snipe at people, I'm sure we all do. She should apologize, in my opinion, because though she may have encountered sexism in the past, I see no sign of it in this particular instance. But I think this whole thing has been blown waaaaaaaaaaay out of proportion.
What we have here is a dev who is obviously sensitive to criticism, possibly from past experience (reddit posted a whole thread early on when she signed on dissecting her twitter feed...it was a pretty negative thread), who over-reacted to someone disagreeing with her expert opinion. And she did over-react.
But this seems to be more about her sensitivity than anything Deroir did wrong. That's how I'm reading it anyway. And you know, considering the reception she got when she first got hired by the reddit crowd, I'm not surprised she's a bit sensitive.
Then keep this kitten on Twitter where it belongs. Ya ppl post it here I’m going to comment.
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62658/alliance-design-that-stops-the-qq
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62555/putting-fun-back-into-designs-and-balancing
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9804/idea-wvw-only-movement-skills
That is your right.
Made on her personal twitter that shows Arenanet as her employer, makes direct conversation about Arenanet game topics, and attacks people for making sensible and polite conversation about those Arenanet topics by referencing the fact that she works at Arenanet and they do not? Also, her personal twitter where another Arenanet employee joins in to lob shame at the individuals who dared to try to have a polite discussion with her?
This isn't some situation where a person, on their anonymous and private personal twitter, says "The dress was white and blue" and gets demolished by rabid fans of their employers. This is a situation where someone identified their twitter as a feed to discuss topics related to their job, began a discussion related to their job, and then called anyone who even slightly disagreed a sexist pig.
The fact that another Anet employee supported this viewpoint really drives home that this isn't some one off thing; it definitely helps reveal a bit how our feedback as a community is received internally.
I like this attitude, I appreciate honesty no matter what form it takes.
Aurora Glade Diamond Legend [VV]
Ultimate Dominator
I hope she doesn't mind when the community responds with honesty as well then.
I'm shocked this person is even allowed to publicly label herself as an Anet employee on a platform she clearly uses to spew political garbage on. I've also dug into some of her other twitter posts and am absolutely convinced she's completely unhinged (tells people to go kill themselves, spews anti-Jewish propaganda everywhere... think Mel Gibson when he's drunk kind of stuff and the insane sexism stuff).
Also, you need to realize that it doesn't matter if this dev uses her own personal twitter or facebook or whatever, she CLEARLY states that she's an ArenaNet employee and developer so basically whenever she interacts with someone, she does that as a direct representative of the company she advertises she's employed for.
I'm employed in a large corporation as well and whenever I communicate with people on media that I advertise the company I work for as well, I need to be careful with what I say. Even if it would be on twitter or anything else, if I start calling people out and insulting them then I can expect to be fired from my position relatively quick. I'm surprised this dev is still employed by Anet since they need to think of their customers first. The only fitting action Anet can do with this dev is indeed to fire her.
Exactly.
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62658/alliance-design-that-stops-the-qq
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62555/putting-fun-back-into-designs-and-balancing
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9804/idea-wvw-only-movement-skills
Holy kitten 0_o
Please see the following response from down the page
You make very good points. Although it's not the first time something like this happens so I think Arenanet really needs to look into the situation. I get the idea JP is very stressed, so it might be worthwhile to have her go on leave for a bit to get some rest and properly destress and clear her mind.
I'm more critical of Peter Fries, who poured fuel on the fire. He should know better than to butt in on an already volatile situation and should have left the situation to be handled by the PR team or community manager.
People are saying Anet apparently contacted Deroir and asked him not to say anything about the situation, so I guess we'll hear from Anet soon.
kitten and armchair judges.
She is right, and so is he on the actual game discussion. If they took the PC anywhere but the middle we would complain, though they avoid monomyth and any sort of change in the PC, which makes our character rather bland. But the narrative is pretty bad on a pure writing perspective. The dialogue is very shallow and the only memorable part is Canach and towers. If they can't accept us saying we want better, as paying customers, they need to move on. So to get on a high horse and claim sexism is past misguided but outrageous. For the male dev to then step in and claim we are laymen, many of us will not be myself included and that their twitters are private is again utterly wrong.
Anyone with any social media experience with a large company will tell you this. If you are in the public eye, say a politician, a police officer, a teacher, a youth worker, etc etc, and you post extremist and unfounded opinions like her, then you are representing your employer to those reading them. She has 10k followers, likely fans of this and her previous employer. Go through her tweet history and it is post after post of sexist remarks and some verging on racist, this is not like interrupting a small private conversation with an unwelcome opinion, but joining a public discussion instigated by her to 10k people. No where on her twitter bio does she claim, her views are her own and not Anets. If I were in their PR team I would be sweating right now.
Bottom line, she is driving away your player base by calling us stupid and sexist if we dare to disagree with her. Not to mention, rando a**hat...
And no, July 4th is not an excuse, if you are off work, do not post about work or you will get asked about work. Not to mention the majority of the world do no celebrate this holiday...
I do have to correct this because I have also looked through her twitter posts. She is far from being anti-jewish. In fact, from all she has posted I believe she is actually Jewish herself (though could be wrong about that). I could be wrong, but I didn't find anything suggesting being against anything Jewish.
Here's the Reddit thread that pretty much dug around in some of her twitter activity; https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/8w6fnb/anet_delivering_new_content_already/
If you go down in posts far enough you'll see what I mean (twitter posts that is).
I'm not sure what's more disturbing... Her tweets or you guys trying to find anything negative...
Edit: but hey, look how alive the forums have become
Ok, that's good at least. It's one thing to just be a miserable person, but it's another to be miserable AND tell people to go kill themselves while being rabidly anti semitic. Hopefully that won't turn into some rumor and spread; her toxic responses are bad enough on their own merit, without people making up fake reasons to be mad at her.
I definitely hope so. It would be unfortunate if they just tell Deroir to be quiet and then leave it at that.
Definitely her tweets.
Really? Where was this first heard? Doesn't that seem pretty off if Arenanet is telling Deroir to be silent? If anything an apology is owed to him.
I mean, if they are planning to apologize then I can see them reaching out to him to ask that. He's a content creator, so folks are going to be more prone to listening to him. If he made a big deal about being treated so poorly, it would be a PR nightmare for Arenanet. It may seem callous, and would be if Anet didn't make a public apology after, but if they ARE planning to apologize then it's definitely a good move to ask him to hold his horses before saying something that could fuel the fire. In general, games and content creators have a close relationship, so it's not beyond reason to ask that of him.
He isn't supposed to stoke the fire while they sort things out. Statement from them will come in the following days. At least that's what would make sense & is what most companies do in such situations.
If you want another great example of why telling your customers to "kitten off" is bad practice, look at the comic industry. You can't defend this behaviour without a serious portion of "turning a blind eye"
Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.
Disgusting behaviour from an ANet employee, I really hope higher power will deal with her because this is unacceptable!
| Separatist | Nightmare Court | Inquest | White Mantle | Sunspears | Loyalists | Ascalon | Kryta | Ebonhawke | Elona | Istan | Kourna | Vabbi | Cantha | Luxon | Kurzick | 71 characters | "Rally to me, Ascalonians!" "Keep Ascalon in your heart." "May the Gods protect you." "Be blessed by the Six."
Oh I definitely hope they plan to! That is a very good insight, thank you for the observation
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I don't know. I've defended coworkers before, because I know them and understand their point of view. Just as the dev over-reacted, so has the community. This is, at this point, nothing more than a witch hunt. The dev felt she was being singled out because she was a female dev. It's not likely but that's what her experience has taught her. The fuel on the fire isn't going to teach her any different.
Peter Fries did what anyone would do for a friend. He wasn't trying to throw fuel on the fire. He was helping a friend. We've all done it. In all of this, he's the guy who's reaction I understand the most.
You keep trying to make this a morality issue. It's an issue in behaviour. Keep twisting words around all you like, but you're making yourself look bad.
You cannot point at all the bad guys in a large group of people when we are talking about the action of a single person, who has been in the business for SO MANY YEARS that they can apparently dismiss any slight of criticism who should DEFINITELY know better than telling customers to f off.
In other words
"Untag me rando kitten"
Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.
All I know is I won't be investing any more money into this game until this has been addressed and if it's not I'll just find a new game. There are plenty of options.
No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.
I personally would argue, that even if you don't specifically state on your twitter account, or any account for that matter, that you are affiliated with the company you work with, you always represent the company in some form.
The reason I say this, is that so long as people know who you work for, which in this day and age is quite easy to find out, you are always being associated with that company, which is also the reason, why companies frequently terminate work relationships with employees that share completely intolerable opinions publicly, no matter if their account is private and shows no affiliation or not.
And that my friends is why you make a fake Twitter account!
Pardon my ignorance, but what is that? I'm not using twitter a lot and have never heard of that before.
Another one of those loud minorty uproars, when something doesn't go a certain way...
Gordon, a fake facebook or twitter is one not connected to your real name or anything identifiable to you easily and on which you can speak more freely without it being easy to find out who you are and where you work. Hope that is helpful
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That and the tweet in question that started this whole thing was very clearly about this game, company and her work. So would it be a fair assessment that the tweet is affiliated with this game? I'd say so.
Denouncing toxic and harmful behavior is not now, nor has it ever been, a personal attack. It is exceptionally reasonable that an ArenaNet employee attacking a Guild Wars 2 content creator during a Guild Wars 2 discussion should warrant some level of conversation on the Guild Wars 2 official forums, especially considering another ArenaNet employee supported the attack.
There is no better place for this conversation.
Judging by the reddit thread about this being number 2 most upvoted thread in the entirety of the GW2 subreddit I would say it's not a loud minority uproar.
Sure the majority of players don't go to reddit, but the majority of players don't even know about this, so I'll just consider those who do know.
Upon thread creation it was an attack on the dev. How do you not understand that? Do I need to quote the official forum rules so you get it?
There are different ways to address issues, and running to the game forums and reddit, from Twitter QQ, for mob justice is childish. Whomever had an issue could have easily brought up their concern via email to someone else, not this public axe grinding and mob pitchforks...
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62658/alliance-design-that-stops-the-qq
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62555/putting-fun-back-into-designs-and-balancing
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9804/idea-wvw-only-movement-skills
Ah fake, when I first read it it said date, not fake. Probably autocorrect, but I was thinking it was something special I never heard of.
What are you getting at exactly?
I dare say this tea is hotter than the Beauty Community tea on YouTube.
I hope that a PR meeting occurred first thing this morning for damage control, I’m looking forward to seeing a post from Gaile Gray sometime today/tomorrow.
I have no further responses for this discussion, people should leave their opinion and leave the post if they can’t be constructive in their feedback of JPs behaviour.
Better get a wriggle on.
Looks like the post got deleted pretty quickly. Thanks for staying on top of the discussion, mods! Last thing we need is for it to be derailed by hateful kitten like that.
"a certain way" being: Not telling customers to f off and being extremely disrespectful towards the people who shape parts of the community, yes.
"Don't speak up when people treat you poorly, it doesn't affect me personally so it's not relevant"
Edit: Judging by your second response I might have misunderstood. Either way, this wasn't an attack towards you if you read it that way.
Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.