EDIT: ANET staff publicly representing company should be held to their own standards - Page 9 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

EDIT: ANET staff publicly representing company should be held to their own standards

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Comments

  • DeadTreeJig.6714DeadTreeJig.6714 Member ✭✭✭

    @thruine.8510 said:
    Opinion of what though? Her work? Gee, how could that ever be taken the wrong way? At no point did she seem to be stuck and need assistance. Now if he had worded it so it was more of I wish we could have this because then it lead to this no one would have found reason for complaint. But disagreeing and explaining how better it would be if done this way is never ever going to end well. If he had done that, she might have gone into why they can't do that if she thought he lacked the knowledge of the limitations she works within. But it seems the assumption was she was the one lacking knowledge.

    You seem to suggest that it was all his fault, that her reaction was appropriate and reasonable. Was that your intention?

    When a man lies he murders some part of the world – Paul Gerhardt
    Just so we’re clear, I’m a solo player – Kirito
    Live, Laugh, Love Kill Zhaitan Mordremoth Balthazar Joko Kralkatorrik my desire for the Skyscale I don't know... – DedTreeJig

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Ambush.9420 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.
    Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

    https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

    As an economist, I'd urge you to learn some basic statistical analysis before making such claims.

    You seem to have a poor understanding of how the specific data (regarding the 'wage gap') is actually gathered.

    The site you linked looks blindly at the entire population of women, and compares them (again blindly) to the entire population of men.

    It doesn't take into account extremely important factors such as the type of job , the hours worked, time taken off, etc.

    Once you account for these, the wage gap diminishes, and in fact.. recent findings suggest women actually earn MORE for the same job once these factors are equated for.

    Essentially, women are making less as a whole because they choose jobs that make less, they are generally worse at negotiating, and they take much more time off than the average man.

    Again, once you account for these factors.. the wage gap diminishes entirely (sometimes even favouring the women).

    Now, a good discussion would be WHY are women choosing worse paying jobs? Why are men more interested in higher paying jobs such as computer science , engineering and mathematics? Some say it's biology, others say it's due to societal pressures.

    You can look to the Scandinavian countries for an answer, which are without argument the most egalitarian countries in the world.. what do we find when we look there? There is actually an even BIGGER divide between men and women in terms of their career choices. The data is extremely clear on that.

    You can conclude that when left to their own devices, men and women make different life choices.. careers being no different. That is an extremely large part of why blindly comparing men and women (in terms of earnings) is completely ridiculous from a statistical standpoint.

    Yeap most women and not white people choose worse paying jobs because they make different life choices.Its their fault. There is no wage gap.
    I get it. I am not going to ruin your male privelage , don't worry.

    Seems like you're defeated because your circular logic doesn't work anymore?

    The implication that different life choices are a "fault" is made by you. The wage gap still doesn't exist and it doesn't have anything to do with privilege even if it did. It's understandable that you can get really hooked on that idea, that it's some huge plan to keep women down. This is exactly how conspiracy theories work. It gives you an adrenaline and dopamine boost to realize that there are actually skeletons inside all of us, but it's really important to lose that "I am oppressed" mindset, because that is what actually oppresses you in the end. What keeps you down.

    You have to Break. The. Conditioning.

    :triumph:

    In all seriousness though. It's always easier to believe in something like this because it's easier to swallow, it sounds more appetizing because it shifts "blame". In reality there is no blame to place and no guilt to trip somebody over. It's just harsh and cold late stage capitalism that doesn't give a kitten about you or anybody else in the world as long as the money keeps rolling

    Bite me.

  • @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

    Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

    ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

    Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

    Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

    Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

    I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

    So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

    Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.
    As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

    That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

    If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

    Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

    Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

    They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

    Don't want to really start Social Justice kitten here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

    Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.
    Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

    https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

    Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

    There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

    If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

    I'm sorry you keep supporting that for example 5.2% of S&P 500 CEO’s are women because women make different life choices. Who I am to disagree?
    If the high earners are typically men, then removing them from the analysis removes an important part of the story. The mean calculation takes these high earners into account, and therefore provides a clearer picture of the gender pay gap. You can't just ignore it or pretend that women do not like high paying jobs. I am sorry.

  • Ambush.9420Ambush.9420 Member ✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    >

    Yeap most women and not white people choose worse paying jobs because they make different life choices.Its their fault. There is no wage gap.
    I get it. I am not going to ruin your male privelage , don't worry.

    I'm simply giving you the facts , once you analyze the actual statistical data.. you do not find a wage gap. It is simply not there.

  • @Ambush.9420 said:

    >

    Yeap most women and not white people choose worse paying jobs because they make different life choices.Its their fault. There is no wage gap.
    I get it. I am not going to ruin your male privelage , don't worry.

    I'm simply giving you the facts , once you analyze the actual statistical data.. you do not find a wage gap. It is simply not there.
    I am neither white nor male.. just for your information ;).

    Well I'm providing you facts that support that the wage gap is a real thing. It is simply there.

    Fyi I am white male. What does have to do with anything?

  • NoiseRen.2403NoiseRen.2403 Member ✭✭✭

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

    Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

    ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

    Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

    Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

    Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

    I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

    So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

    Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.
    As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

    That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

    If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

    Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

    Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

    They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

    Don't want to really start Social Justice kitten here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

    Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.
    Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

    https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

    Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

    There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

    If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

    I'm sorry you keep supporting that for example 5.2% of S&P 500 CEO’s are women because women make different life choices. Who I am to disagree?
    If the high earners are typically men, then removing them from the analysis removes an important part of the story. The mean calculation takes these high earners into account, and therefore provides a clearer picture of the gender pay gap. You can't just ignore it or pretend that women do not like high paying jobs. I am sorry.

    Most women historically prefer family over career. The horror.
    When my daugther was born and we were deciding who will take a leave from work for a year my wifes answer was:"of course it has to be mother, who in the right mind will leave a newborn with a clueless male?". Any you know, she's right.

  • OrbitalButt.5708OrbitalButt.5708 Member ✭✭✭

    Can you people please shut up about the wage gap

    JP just got canned

  • Ambush.9420Ambush.9420 Member ✭✭

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    Well I'm providing you facts that support that the wage gap is a real thing. It is simply there.

    Fyi I am white male. What does have to do with anything?

    You have yet to provide any facts.. you just linked forbes and some other site. Can you find peer reviewed statistical data that actually proves your point? There's a reason no serious economist believes in the wage gap.

    You are the one who brought race and gender up, not me.

  • @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

    Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

    ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

    Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

    Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

    Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

    I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

    So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

    Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.
    As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

    That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

    If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

    Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

    Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

    They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

    Don't want to really start Social Justice kitten here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

    Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.
    Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

    https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

    Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

    There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

    If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

    I'm sorry you keep supporting that for example 5.2% of S&P 500 CEO’s are women because women make different life choices. Who I am to disagree?
    If the high earners are typically men, then removing them from the analysis removes an important part of the story. The mean calculation takes these high earners into account, and therefore provides a clearer picture of the gender pay gap. You can't just ignore it or pretend that women do not like high paying jobs. I am sorry.

    Most women historically prefer family over career. The horror.
    When my daugther was born and we were deciding who will take a leave from work for a year my wifes answer was:"of course it has to be mother, who in the right mind will leave a newborn with a clueless male?". Any you know, she's right.

    She's right because you accept that you are a clueless male. Irrelevant with the whole other discussion.

  • Deihnyx.6318Deihnyx.6318 Member ✭✭✭

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

    Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

    ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

    Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

    Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

    Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

    I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

    So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

    Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.
    As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

    That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

    If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

    Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

    Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

    They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

    Don't want to really start Social Justice kitten here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

    Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.
    Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

    https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

    Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

    There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

    If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

    I'm sorry you keep supporting that for example 5.2% of S&P 500 CEO’s are women because women make different life choices. Who I am to disagree?
    If the high earners are typically men, then removing them from the analysis removes an important part of the story. The mean calculation takes these high earners into account, and therefore provides a clearer picture of the gender pay gap. You can't just ignore it or pretend that women do not like high paying jobs. I am sorry.

    I don't think he's defending it, more that he's trying to demonstrate that this difference of pay grade is mostly due to self-conditioning, rather than "oppression" from the male gender.
    Which is honestly, what real feminism is about: Trying to even the odds. The whole "blaming it on the other gender" is quite new, and counter-productive most of the time.

  • Tolmos.8395Tolmos.8395 Member ✭✭✭

    Soooo looks like the situation has been resolved. We have two choices: continue fighting amongst each other, or answer the question...

    What's everyone having for dinner? =D

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

    I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

    Mo

    It's over guys <3

    Top Ten Anime Betrayals

    I legitimately screamed. That's one kitten clear message

    Bite me.

  • NoiseRen.2403NoiseRen.2403 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tolmos.8395 said:
    Soooo looks like the situation has been resolved. We have two choices: continue fighting amongst each other, or answer the question...

    What's everyone having for dinner? =D

    Nah. I'm goin to sleep. 1 A.M. here.

  • Tolmos.8395Tolmos.8395 Member ✭✭✭

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Tolmos.8395 said:
    Soooo looks like the situation has been resolved. We have two choices: continue fighting amongst each other, or answer the question...

    What's everyone having for dinner? =D

    Nah. I'm goin to sleep. 1 A.M. here.

    Holy time difference Batman!

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

    Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

    ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

    Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

    Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

    Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

    I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

    So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

    Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.
    As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

    That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

    If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

    Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

    Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

    They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

    Don't want to really start Social Justice kitten here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

    Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.
    Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

    https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

    Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

    There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

    If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

    This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics.

    And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender.

  • Tolmos.8395Tolmos.8395 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

    I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

    Mo

    It's over guys <3

    That's the clearest message I've ever seen on something like this. "Mo" doesn't hold back.

    Now, before the pitchforks go away, lets talk about how someone made a thread about killing Taimi!

  • NoiseRen.2403NoiseRen.2403 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

    Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

    ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

    Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

    Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

    Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

    I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

    So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

    Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.
    As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

    That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

    If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

    Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

    Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

    They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

    Don't want to really start Social Justice kitten here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

    Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.
    Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

    https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

    Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

    There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

    If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

    This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics.

    And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender.

    With this logic if i were a CEO all my employees would be women so i could pay less. I somehow don't see it.

  • @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

    Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

    ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

    Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

    Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

    Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

    I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

    So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

    Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.
    As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

    That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

    If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

    Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

    Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

    They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

    Don't want to really start Social Justice kitten here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

    Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.
    Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

    https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

    Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

    There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

    If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

    I'm sorry you keep supporting that for example 5.2% of S&P 500 CEO’s are women because women make different life choices. Who I am to disagree?
    If the high earners are typically men, then removing them from the analysis removes an important part of the story. The mean calculation takes these high earners into account, and therefore provides a clearer picture of the gender pay gap. You can't just ignore it or pretend that women do not like high paying jobs. I am sorry.

    I don't think he's defending it, more that he's trying to demonstrate that this difference of pay grade is mostly due to self-conditioning, rather than "oppression" from the male gender.
    Which is honestly, what real feminism is about: Trying to even the odds. The whole "blaming it on the other gender" is quite new, and counter-productive most of the time.

    So wage gap is a real thing now? I totally disagree that the difference of pay grade is mostly due to self-conditioning.I strongly believe that society pressures women to occupy low paying roles regardless of ability. So even if men and women are equally paid, men in society are better off because society doesnt coerce them into adopting titles with less value.Sexual harrassment and discrimination also keeps women out of high paying jobs. Also, unpaid reproductive labor reduces career potential when there are not laws to protect maternity leave and parenthood discrimination. And the list goes on....

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

    Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

    ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

    Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

    Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

    Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

    I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

    So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

    Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.
    As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

    That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

    If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

    Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

    Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

    They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

    Don't want to really start Social Justice kitten here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

    Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.
    Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

    https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

    Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

    There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

    If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

    This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics.

    And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender.

    It literally says they are based on their decision to ask for a raise, or try to get it.

    Bite me.

  • Zalavaaris.5329Zalavaaris.5329 Member ✭✭✭

    I hate that this is what my favorite games forum has come to. Sadly anet cant even with good conscience close the thread because it was their own employees fault.

  • @Blocki.4931 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

    Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

    ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

    Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

    Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

    Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

    I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

    So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

    Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.
    As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

    That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

    If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

    Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

    Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

    They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

    Don't want to really start Social Justice kitten here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

    Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.
    Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

    https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

    Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

    There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

    If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

    This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics.

    And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender.

    It literally says they are based on their decision to ask for a raise, or try to get it.

    Which literally means that men are more able to get a raise and women are not. You can not describe any better the words -gender inequality- .

  • Deihnyx.6318Deihnyx.6318 Member ✭✭✭

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

    Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

    ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

    Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

    Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

    Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

    I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

    So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

    Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.
    As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

    That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

    If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

    Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

    Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

    They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

    Don't want to really start Social Justice kitten here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

    Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.
    Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

    https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

    Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

    There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

    If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

    I'm sorry you keep supporting that for example 5.2% of S&P 500 CEO’s are women because women make different life choices. Who I am to disagree?
    If the high earners are typically men, then removing them from the analysis removes an important part of the story. The mean calculation takes these high earners into account, and therefore provides a clearer picture of the gender pay gap. You can't just ignore it or pretend that women do not like high paying jobs. I am sorry.

    I don't think he's defending it, more that he's trying to demonstrate that this difference of pay grade is mostly due to self-conditioning, rather than "oppression" from the male gender.
    Which is honestly, what real feminism is about: Trying to even the odds. The whole "blaming it on the other gender" is quite new, and counter-productive most of the time.

    So wage gap is a real thing now? I totally disagree that the difference of pay grade is mostly due to self-conditioning.I strongly believe that society pressures women to occupy low paying roles regardless of ability. So even if men and women are equally paid, men in society are better off because society doesnt coerce them into adopting titles with less value.Sexual harrassment and discrimination also keeps women out of high paying jobs. Also, unpaid reproductive labor reduces career potential when there are not laws to protect maternity leave and parenthood discrimination. And the list goes on....

    Hold on, I'm not the same guy, never denied it was a reality.
    But you're basically saying this is a conditioning as well right here. I think we all agree on what needs to be done.
    And the fact is less and less "men" are abusing that sort of power. And for those who do, they better not get caught and they're getting a storm on their way (rightfully so).
    For all the rest of us who are fully on board with feminism (the non radical one) we all WANT everyone to be equally paid and have equal chances at everything.

  • Ephemiel.5694Ephemiel.5694 Member ✭✭✭

    It's all over now and they both got what they deserved.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

    Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

    ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

    Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

    Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

    Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

    I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

    So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

    Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.
    As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

    That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

    If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

    Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

    Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

    They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

    Don't want to really start Social Justice kitten here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

    Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.
    Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

    https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

    Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

    There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

    If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

    This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics.

    And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender.

    With this logic if i were a CEO all my employees wold be women so i could pay less. I somehow don't see it.

    Dude, logic is not about what you "see," it is about what the result of the statistics indicate. You cannot project whatever the kitten you want on the data results.

    And this statement is just dumb. I could use this fall logic in anything it will be flat out wrong. Mesmer is currently the strongest class in almost every game mode. Everyone should play only Mesmer. But do they?!

  • @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

    Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

    ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

    Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

    Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

    Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

    I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

    So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

    Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.
    As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

    That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

    If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

    Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

    Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

    They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

    Don't want to really start Social Justice kitten here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

    Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.
    Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

    https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

    Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

    There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

    If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

    This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics.

    And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender.

    With this logic if i were a CEO all my employees would be women so i could pay less. I somehow don't see it.

    You would never do that not because you would not save money but because gender inequality would force you to hire men cause society treats women as "stupid".
    Ask a female colleague of yours how they treat her when she answers the phone and you'll understand what I mean.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

    Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

    ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

    Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

    Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

    Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

    I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

    So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

    Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.
    As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

    That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

    If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

    Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

    Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

    They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

    Don't want to really start Social Justice kitten here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

    Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.
    Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

    https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

    Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

    There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

    If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

    This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics.

    And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender.

    With this logic if i were a CEO all my employees wold be women so i could pay less. I somehow don't see it.

    Dude, logic is not about what you "see," it is about what the result of the statistics indicate. You cannot project whatever the kitten you want on the data results.

    And this statement is just dumb. I could use this fall logic in anything it will be flat out wrong. Mesmer is currently the strongest class in almost every game mode. Everyone should play only Mesmer. But do they?!

    You're literally putting words I haven't said into my mouth to prove your own point.

    Why would men asking for a raise more often than women have anything to do with their gender? When it's been proven to be the case a lot of times? Are women physically unable to utter those words? Are they controlled by some evil puppet master man?

    But whatever. Keep believing in santa if that makes you happy. Not worth repeating the same kitten that's been said a thousand times before. Dont @ me ty

    Bite me.

  • StinVec.3621StinVec.3621 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:
    (I know I said I wouldn't comment again, but this is a PSA, not in reply to anyone, nor will I reply)
    Peter Fries has seemingly deleted all tweets in connection (tagged) to JP's. The only one remaining is:

    Very disappointing to see. Thank you for commenting again to share this development.

    I expect he was told to delete them as a result of their 'internal discussions'. However, I expect that deleting them is worse than leaving them up as that shows clear admission of wrongdoing. I doubt PR would command such an act be taken without a game plan and I also doubt that he took it upon himself to delete them. This may be a sign that they've determined a course of action and, if so, I interpret this development as meaning that PF would be remaining, though JP and possibly another may not.

    Or...operation "RugSweep" has begun, though a lot of good it will do considering it is all archived and screenshots of the tweets are posted all over reddit and many other places.

    (all my own speculation and interpretations, of course)

    It will be quite interesting to see how this goes over the next few days.

    edit: Apparently I should've caught up on the last 20+min of developments before posting this. I honestly did not expect handling the situation this soon.

    WOW - Done with forums for good now! - Someone creates a thread about Pharus's light on crit effect asking if it is a bug - I get warned for being "off topic" for commenting how to use the search and pointing out threads discussing Pharus and it being an intended effect... Goodbye all. Happy gaming.

  • @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

    Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

    ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

    Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

    Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

    Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

    I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

    So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

    Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.
    As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

    That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

    If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

    Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

    Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

    They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

    Don't want to really start Social Justice kitten here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

    Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.
    Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

    https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

    Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

    There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

    If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

    I'm sorry you keep supporting that for example 5.2% of S&P 500 CEO’s are women because women make different life choices. Who I am to disagree?
    If the high earners are typically men, then removing them from the analysis removes an important part of the story. The mean calculation takes these high earners into account, and therefore provides a clearer picture of the gender pay gap. You can't just ignore it or pretend that women do not like high paying jobs. I am sorry.

    I don't think he's defending it, more that he's trying to demonstrate that this difference of pay grade is mostly due to self-conditioning, rather than "oppression" from the male gender.
    Which is honestly, what real feminism is about: Trying to even the odds. The whole "blaming it on the other gender" is quite new, and counter-productive most of the time.

    So wage gap is a real thing now? I totally disagree that the difference of pay grade is mostly due to self-conditioning.I strongly believe that society pressures women to occupy low paying roles regardless of ability. So even if men and women are equally paid, men in society are better off because society doesnt coerce them into adopting titles with less value.Sexual harrassment and discrimination also keeps women out of high paying jobs. Also, unpaid reproductive labor reduces career potential when there are not laws to protect maternity leave and parenthood discrimination. And the list goes on....

    Hold on, I'm not the same guy, never denied it was a reality.
    But you're basically saying this is a conditioning as well right here. I think we all agree on what needs to be done.
    And the fact is less and less "men" are abusing that sort of power. And for those who do, they better not get caught and they're getting a storm on their way (rightfully so).
    For all the rest of us who are fully on board with feminism (the non radical one) we all WANT everyone to be equally paid and have equal chances at everything.

    I know you are not the same guy I was just saying that denying there is a wage gap is like supporting that earth is flat.

    I could not agree more with the rest of your comment.

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    mesmers? .... :o

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • NoiseRen.2403NoiseRen.2403 Member ✭✭✭

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

    Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

    ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

    Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

    Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

    Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

    I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

    So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

    Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.
    As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

    That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

    If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

    Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

    Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

    They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

    Don't want to really start Social Justice kitten here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

    Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.
    Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

    https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

    Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

    There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

    If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

    This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics.

    And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender.

    With this logic if i were a CEO all my employees would be women so i could pay less. I somehow don't see it.

    You would never do that not because you would not save money but because gender inequality would force you to hire men cause society treats women as "stupid".
    Ask a female colleague of yours how they treat her when she answers the phone and you'll understand what I mean.

    But my female colleague works at the same position, earns the same money and pays less taxes than me. wage gap, lol.
    She's doin same amount of work and is as respected if not more than me. Funniest thing, we're network administrators so where's my male privelege here? I shuld demand a raise.

  • Raizel.8175Raizel.8175 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Firing both instantly is kinda... extreme. Firing JP is understandable, but PF?

    Forcing her to publicly apologize and to close down her twitter so she can't do any future harm would have been the more elegant solution in my opinion.

  • @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

    Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

    ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

    Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

    Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

    Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

    I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

    So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

    Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.
    As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

    That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

    If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

    Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

    Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

    They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

    Don't want to really start Social Justice kitten here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

    Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.
    Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

    https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

    Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

    There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

    If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

    This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics.

    And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender.

    With this logic if i were a CEO all my employees would be women so i could pay less. I somehow don't see it.

    You would never do that not because you would not save money but because gender inequality would force you to hire men cause society treats women as "stupid".
    Ask a female colleague of yours how they treat her when she answers the phone and you'll understand what I mean.

    But my female colleague works at the same position, earns the same money and pays less taxes than me. wage gap, lol.
    She's doin same amount of work and is as respected if not more than me. Funniest thing, we're network administrators so where's my male privelege here? I shuld demand a raise.

    Yeah well good for her. That is the way it should work for the rest of the world too. But it does not.

  • NoiseRen.2403NoiseRen.2403 Member ✭✭✭

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    Firing both instantly is kinda... extreme. Firing JP is understandable, but PF?

    Forcing her to publicly apologize and to close down her twitter so she can't do any future harm would have been the more elegant solution in my opinion.

    Not if she tried to implement her toxic ideas and attitude into her work.

  • NoiseRen.2403NoiseRen.2403 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    double post.

  • NoiseRen.2403NoiseRen.2403 Member ✭✭✭

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

    Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

    ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

    Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

    Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

    Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

    I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

    So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

    Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.
    As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

    That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

    If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

    Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

    Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

    They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

    Don't want to really start Social Justice kitten here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

    Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.
    Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

    https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

    Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

    There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

    If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

    This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics.

    And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender.

    With this logic if i were a CEO all my employees would be women so i could pay less. I somehow don't see it.

    You would never do that not because you would not save money but because gender inequality would force you to hire men cause society treats women as "stupid".
    Ask a female colleague of yours how they treat her when she answers the phone and you'll understand what I mean.

    But my female colleague works at the same position, earns the same money and pays less taxes than me. wage gap, lol.
    She's doin same amount of work and is as respected if not more than me. Funniest thing, we're network administrators so where's my male privelege here? I shuld demand a raise.

    Yeah well good for her. That is the way it should work for the rest of the world too. But it does not.

    But it does.

  • Deihnyx.6318Deihnyx.6318 Member ✭✭✭

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    Firing both instantly is kinda... extreme. Firing JP is understandable, but PF?

    Forcing her to publicly apologize and to close down her twitter so she can't do any future harm would have been the more elegant solution in my opinion.

    Well there could have been internal talks we won't know about (better that way).
    I really, really however this won't cause internal problems. The game is great and has been really good recently...

  • OrbitalButt.5708OrbitalButt.5708 Member ✭✭✭

    Close thread, scorch earth, salt the ground afterwards

  • Raizel.8175Raizel.8175 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    Firing both instantly is kinda... extreme. Firing JP is understandable, but PF?

    Forcing her to publicly apologize and to close down her twitter so she can't do any future harm would have been the more elegant solution in my opinion.

    The game is great and has been really good recently...

    That's subjective. I don't really like E3 and I think that they're intentionally overlooking fundamental flaws the game has, though that is subjective too.

  • @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @NoiseRen.2403 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Feithlinn.9284 said:

    @alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

    It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we definitely don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

    My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

    If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

    Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

    ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

    Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

    Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

    Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

    I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

    So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

    Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.
    As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

    That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

    If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

    Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

    Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

    They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

    Don't want to really start Social Justice kitten here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

    Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.
    Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

    https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

    Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

    There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

    If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

    This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics.

    And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender.

    With this logic if i were a CEO all my employees would be women so i could pay less. I somehow don't see it.

    You would never do that not because you would not save money but because gender inequality would force you to hire men cause society treats women as "stupid".
    Ask a female colleague of yours how they treat her when she answers the phone and you'll understand what I mean.

    But my female colleague works at the same position, earns the same money and pays less taxes than me. wage gap, lol.
    She's doin same amount of work and is as respected if not more than me. Funniest thing, we're network administrators so where's my male privelege here? I shuld demand a raise.

    Yeah well good for her. That is the way it should work for the rest of the world too. But it does not.

    But it does.

    If you say so.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @OrbitalButt.5708 said:
    Close thread, scorch earth, salt the ground afterwards

    Orbitally Butt Blast™ the thread

    Also that TM is really kitten tiny

    Bite me.

  • OrbitalButt.5708OrbitalButt.5708 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @OrbitalButt.5708 said:
    Close thread, scorch earth, salt the ground afterwards

    Orbitally Butt Blast™ the thread

    I have the power

  • Deihnyx.6318Deihnyx.6318 Member ✭✭✭

    @Raizel.8175 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    Firing both instantly is kinda... extreme. Firing JP is understandable, but PF?

    Forcing her to publicly apologize and to close down her twitter so she can't do any future harm would have been the more elegant solution in my opinion.

    The game is great and has been really good recently...

    That's subjective. I don't really like E3 and I think that they're intentionally overlooking fundamental flaws the game has, though that is subjective too.

    Well yeah it is, but here is not the place to discuss about it. I'm just concerned about the general moral of the company after this.
    It's like... lots of people got implicated by proxy and didn't deserve this. I think they deserve all the support we can give right now.

  • Hats off to ANet, could not have been an easy decision. Yet they pulled through.

    Its been what most customers wanted, but still it leaves a stale taste behind. Idk man, idk..

    Oh did I hurt your precious feelings? My deepest apologies.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In real life situation you are representing the company you work with if you are wearing the uniform even outside work hours.
    Did it happen during work hours?
    Was she posting stuff with tag on her Nick that says Arena Dev?
    Etc
    If yes then Arena net should review and provide comment.
    If no, then she is entitled to have her private life and own opinion to things.
    Don't judge others .. our opinion is wide and unbound.

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, EAoA, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • Blood Red Arachnid.2493Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    @OrbitalButt.5708 said:
    It's me, the Toxic Gamer, and I have come to mansplain my manfeels and eat candy with my manmouth

    And I'm all out of candy

    I think I just found my next signature...


    @castlemanic.3198

    Anyway, the thing with all of those articles that you've posted is that I swear I've heard them all debunked before. I can't find all the various videos talking about all of the articles, but I can give a short summation of what is wrong with each one.

    https://www.polygon.com/2016/7/21/12241890/women-game-development

    This one doesn't provide any evidence. It is just a collection of stories on "unconscious bias" (a notion with zero evidence) and particular events volunteered by several women who were sought out to tell those stories. I've seen this before, and it is called selection bias. If you only seek out people with problems and only talk about those problems, you can make anything seem horrible. Her solution is nonsensical and will make things worse: the status quo is such for a reason. It sells. "Challenging the narrative" basically means making propaganda games, which don't sell well. It also dabbles in the ridiculous notion of equality of outcome when it complains that men tend to be more favored in the AAA gaming department. Really? Boys are playing war games more than girls? Who'd of thunk it?

    I'm going to paraphrase Thomas Sowell here: "The notion of equal representation is silly, for the simple reason that people are not randomly generated statistics. We are holding ourselves standard to a phenomena that has not been witnessed once in the entire history of humanity." Call me sexist, but it is foolish to deny that boys and girls generally want to do different things. I've been trying to get my sister into Yugioh for years, but to no avail. The game simply doesn't appeal to her, even if she's watching all of the TV series.

    https://kotaku.com/d-d-wouldn-t-be-what-it-is-today-without-these-women-1796426183

    This one commits a similar flaw above: only focusing on the negative stories and providing no evidence. Gee, an awkward girl in a place where there isn't a lot of girls feels awkward and unrepresented! I started skimming after awhile because the article is longer and dryer than the Sahara, but it looks mostly like "There were these women who helped out in shaping D&D, and occasionally they would receive awkward treatment for their chosen profession."

    http://theconversation.com/more-women-are-becoming-game-developers-but-theres-a-long-way-to-go-79843

    Again, this one has sampling bias, and commits the same errors as the above articles, and even links to the same book. This one provides some statistics, but they're all meaningless. Whether you have 8.7% working in the industry or 15% is a useless statistic; there is no debt to be filled by having more women work in an area. That's the same equality of outcome BS above. There is no correct or incorrect amount of people to be working in a particular field. Unless you have active proof of hiring discrimination, you have nothing. The statistics from the Australia are equally meaningless: "male-dominated industries create a culture that may have a 'higher tolerance of behaviours that could be viewed as sexual harassment' and gender biases when it comes to hiring and promoting." Emphasis mine. It has nothing. Instead of measuring the statistic, they're trying to grapple any ancillary straws and then using that as a base to make gigantic leaps and bounds toward the point they already wanted to prove in the first place.

    Look, my sister has a degree in biology. I was working on a mathematics degree before my health failed. These STEM fields try their damndest to get women into them, but no matter how hard we try women just aren't interested in the theory if interests and wages. Also on the topic of wages, every time career choice, overall experience, and hours worked are factored in, the nebulous wage gap disappears. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth/ Any claims of unfair wages are suspect due to this. The article also wholly mis-characterizes kitten, but that is a big issue to get in to, so I'll just link to http://www.deepfreeze.it/article.php Ironically, this is one of the websites that goes over all these kinds of articles and demonstrates that they're wrong.

    https://mashable.com/2018/01/09/video-game-diversity/#noJ5D24apOqF

    Again, this one is pushing the equality of outcome nonsense with BS statistics. Check this one, for example: "A Pew Research Center study from 2015 shows that 19% of Hispanic people and 11% of black people in the U.S. would say the term "gamer" describes them well. Only 7% of white people would say the same." It tries to use this to imply that there is some form of hidden discrimination, but when you take into account the small portions of the population that hispanic and black people occupy, then it is stupid to think that they would get higher numbers in game development. We're talking 11% of 13%, or 1.43% of the population being black gamers, let alone be interested and capable of getting into the programming market.

    The 48% of female gamers is also a false equivocation. They use this number to somehow try and prove that there's inequality in the system (as other articles above have mentioned), but they aren't dividing this by what games are played. What isn't being told is that the games they're playing are puzzle games, family simulators, and mobile games: https://quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/ Whereas their representation in shooters, MOBAs, and MMOs (the big AAA games) is extremely low.

    https://kotaku.com/the-struggle-to-bring-more-women-into-game-development-1783683864

    This is just another article pushing the same glass cap book that the others are pushing. This is a disingenuous tactic in journalism: repeat the same thing enough, and it'll seem like it is big news and it is all true. That's why all of these articles link to each other in an incestuous loop. It never once occurred to these articles that the reason why it is that gamegate was more likely to attack affirmative action hires is because affirmative action hires are more likely to push radical agendas. It just so happens that women are more likely to be radical feminists than men are (citation needed).

    Overall, these perspectives are utterly myopic. "Oh, I have to prove myself constantly! That is sexism!" No, it isn't. It's work. As a guy I have to prove myself constantly, too. Every prospective employer is weary of me, uncertain that I can perform, and scrutinizes me viciously for the first few months or so.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-25/games-industry-more-women-working-but-gender-bias-remains-issue/8741744

    This one is just a copy/paste of another article posted above.

    http://www.unite-it.eu/profiles/blogs/why-are-so-few-women-developing-video-games

    This one just re-states the same conflated statistics and presuppositions that the other articles do.

    https://www.polygon.com/2016/9/12/12891628/videogame-industry-salary-survey

    Congratulations! Pay gaps exist. See the CBS news article for why.

    There's a great video about this here by Johnathan Haidt. The short version is this: correlation doesn't mean causation.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

This discussion has been closed.
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