GW 2 Devs/Playerbase Twitter Discussion - Page 6 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

GW 2 Devs/Playerbase Twitter Discussion

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  • @Mike O Brien.4613 said:
    Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

    I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

    Mo

    I'm really glad about this. I have been following ArenaNet for many years now and was really upset about this whole incident. I thought it would be another company I'd have to put in the bin and forget about. I'm very happy that's not the case and that you guys have at least a shred of morality.
    I rarely participate here, but like me there's many other people out there that think the same and won't post in the forums, so I logged in just to say it. Thanks ArenaNet, keep it up.

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 6, 2018

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:
    Actually, I'm disappointed in ArenaNet...and the vast majority of the GW community as well...this is 2018, we all need to move into the now and start learning to separate a persons freedom of speech on PERSONAL social media from what they say on BUSINESS related social media. This actually extends beyond social media and includes sports personal conduct clauses...what you or anyone does on their own PERSONAL time does not reflect on how well they perform a job. I'm going to be quite unpopular with the following, but all of this really started with the Ray Rice thing(look it up if you don't know about that) and the NFL. Now, before you think I condone any type of abuse against another person you'd be so far from the truth it would make me laugh, but having said that, even though what he did to his girlfriend in an elevator during the off-season was atrocious, I do not think it was anyone's business but his and hers alone. If you're going to hold someone else up as a role model, society has a serious issue, the only role models should be your parents(if you have them of course).

    The only way society is going to advance is this way: what you do at work or while representing your employer is directly related to that employer; what you do or say on your own PERSONAL time has nothing to do with your employer and until the rest of the world learns this we're all screwed(that even includes if you reference your employer on your own PERSONAL social media handles). I DO NOT CARE what someone does on their own time, nor should anyone else but that person, even the employer should not care what that person does on their own PERSONAL time, but we as a society have forgotten how to separate work from personal time...that is what work hours are for, so those people unable to tell the difference can.

    Wake up world, this is 2018, not 1984 or 1950 or anyone other year...time to evolve or die out.

    If the person, on their own time and personal social media accounts, is actively promoting themself as a company representative then they have decided to erase the line between personal and professional.

    Like I said, that's old school thinking, which almost everyone is still doing...either humankind evolves or it dies out, until humankind can learn to separate personal time from employee time...we as a society are screwed. I do not care if you mention in your private personal social media accounts who you work for, those are for your own private thoughts, I'm smart enough to realize they do not reflect the company you work for, but as we've all seen...there isn't another single person in America that is smart enough to be able to do that. I won't speak for the rest of the world...let me put my thinking into a simple example...I wear a uniform at work, while I'm wearing that uniform I am representing my employer, the minute I take off any part of the uniform that identifies my employer I am no on my PERSONAL time and I should be allowed to say anything I want that isn't illegal...even if completely contradicts my employers public image...that is the state the world needs to be in, separate the individual from the job, they are not the same thing.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Simple, a severe lack in common decency and sinking to the low road.

  • starhunter.6015starhunter.6015 Member ✭✭✭

    @greatestfall.2657 said:

    @Alukah.2063 said:

    @starhunter.6015 said:

    @FearTheOyster.5138 said:
    I'm sad that Price had to be let go, but firing Peter Fries is shocking. An employee should never be punished for sticking up for a coworker when facing a backlash on social media -- even if said coworker is in the wrong. This'll have a horrible affect on your work environment in the long run.

    Sorta of agree, but fired for sticking up no. But should be held accountable and reprimanded yes. Then given a second chance.

    After this?

    She said that in response to TotalBiscuit passing away.

    I mean, she wasn't wrong.

    Not about JP, she got what she deserved , but PF who tried to defend JP and made things worse. Not sure he deserved to be fired but something needed done to him.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:
    Actually, I'm disappointed in ArenaNet...and the vast majority of the GW community as well...this is 2018, we all need to move into the now and start learning to separate a persons freedom of speech on PERSONAL social media from what they say on BUSINESS related social media. This actually extends beyond social media and includes sports personal conduct clauses...what you or anyone does on their own PERSONAL time does not reflect on how well they perform a job. I'm going to be quite unpopular with the following, but all of this really started with the Ray Rice thing(look it up if you don't know about that) and the NFL. Now, before you think I condone any type of abuse against another person you'd be so far from the truth it would make me laugh, but having said that, even though what he did to his girlfriend in an elevator during the off-season was atrocious, I do not think it was anyone's business but his and hers alone. If you're going to hold someone else up as a role model, society has a serious issue, the only role models should be your parents(if you have them of course).

    The only way society is going to advance is this way: what you do at work or while representing your employer is directly related to that employer; what you do or say on your own PERSONAL time has nothing to do with your employer and until the rest of the world learns this we're all screwed(that even includes if you reference your employer on your own PERSONAL social media handles). I DO NOT CARE what someone does on their own time, nor should anyone else but that person, even the employer should not care what that person does on their own PERSONAL time, but we as a society have forgotten how to separate work from personal time...that is what work hours are for, so those people unable to tell the difference can.

    Wake up world, this is 2018, not 1984 or 1950 or anyone other year...time to evolve or die out.

    If the person, on their own time and personal social media accounts, is actively promoting themself as a company representative then they have decided to erase the line between personal and professional.

    Like I said, that's old school thinking, which almost everyone is still doing...either humankind evolves or it dies out, until humankind can learn to separate personal time from employee time...we as a society are screwed. I do not care if you mention in your private personal social media accounts who you work for, those are for your own private thoughts, I'm smart enough to realize they do not reflect the company you work for, but as we've all seen...there is another single person in America that is smart enough to be able to do that. I won't speak for the rest of the world...let me put my thinking into a simple example...I wear a uniform at work, while I'm wearing that uniform I am representing my employer, the minute I take off any part of the uniform that identifies my employer I am no on my PERSONAL time and I should be allowed to say anything I want that isn't illegal...even if completely contradicts my employers public image...that is the state the world needs to be in, separate the individual from the job, they are not the same thing.

    Right, but the person who chose to not separate the personal time from the professional was her. She chose to not evolve, as you put it, and suffered the, very unfortunate, consequences.

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:
    Actually, I'm disappointed in ArenaNet...and the vast majority of the GW community as well...this is 2018, we all need to move into the now and start learning to separate a persons freedom of speech on PERSONAL social media from what they say on BUSINESS related social media. This actually extends beyond social media and includes sports personal conduct clauses...what you or anyone does on their own PERSONAL time does not reflect on how well they perform a job. I'm going to be quite unpopular with the following, but all of this really started with the Ray Rice thing(look it up if you don't know about that) and the NFL. Now, before you think I condone any type of abuse against another person you'd be so far from the truth it would make me laugh, but having said that, even though what he did to his girlfriend in an elevator during the off-season was atrocious, I do not think it was anyone's business but his and hers alone. If you're going to hold someone else up as a role model, society has a serious issue, the only role models should be your parents(if you have them of course).

    The only way society is going to advance is this way: what you do at work or while representing your employer is directly related to that employer; what you do or say on your own PERSONAL time has nothing to do with your employer and until the rest of the world learns this we're all screwed(that even includes if you reference your employer on your own PERSONAL social media handles). I DO NOT CARE what someone does on their own time, nor should anyone else but that person, even the employer should not care what that person does on their own PERSONAL time, but we as a society have forgotten how to separate work from personal time...that is what work hours are for, so those people unable to tell the difference can.

    Wake up world, this is 2018, not 1984 or 1950 or anyone other year...time to evolve or die out.

    If the person, on their own time and personal social media accounts, is actively promoting themself as a company representative then they have decided to erase the line between personal and professional.

    Like I said, that's old school thinking, which almost everyone is still doing...either humankind evolves or it dies out, until humankind can learn to separate personal time from employee time...we as a society are screwed. I do not care if you mention in your private personal social media accounts who you work for, those are for your own private thoughts, I'm smart enough to realize they do not reflect the company you work for, but as we've all seen...there is another single person in America that is smart enough to be able to do that. I won't speak for the rest of the world...let me put my thinking into a simple example...I wear a uniform at work, while I'm wearing that uniform I am representing my employer, the minute I take off any part of the uniform that identifies my employer I am no on my PERSONAL time and I should be allowed to say anything I want that isn't illegal...even if completely contradicts my employers public image...that is the state the world needs to be in, separate the individual from the job, they are not the same thing.

    Right, but the person who chose to not separate the personal time from the professional was her. She chose to not evolve, as you put it, and suffered the, very unfortunate, consequences.

    Apparently you're unable to comprehend what I'm saying...it isn't only the poster that has to do that, it's also the reader...EVERYONE needs to separate personal time from professional time, even if you list your professional associations on your PERSONAL social media...that is what I am saying. Let me put it this way, say you work an 8 - 5 job, what you say during those 8 - 5 hours reflects on your employer...anything you say outside of those hours, unless you're at a function representing your employer are your PERSONAL opinions and have no reflection on your employer....that is how we as a society need to evolve.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • @Tyche.4072 said:
    Good. But can't help but wonder if she's going to think she's a victim in all of this now.

    Me thinks she would probably consider herself a victim no matter what.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 6, 2018

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:
    Actually, I'm disappointed in ArenaNet...and the vast majority of the GW community as well...this is 2018, we all need to move into the now and start learning to separate a persons freedom of speech on PERSONAL social media from what they say on BUSINESS related social media. This actually extends beyond social media and includes sports personal conduct clauses...what you or anyone does on their own PERSONAL time does not reflect on how well they perform a job. I'm going to be quite unpopular with the following, but all of this really started with the Ray Rice thing(look it up if you don't know about that) and the NFL. Now, before you think I condone any type of abuse against another person you'd be so far from the truth it would make me laugh, but having said that, even though what he did to his girlfriend in an elevator during the off-season was atrocious, I do not think it was anyone's business but his and hers alone. If you're going to hold someone else up as a role model, society has a serious issue, the only role models should be your parents(if you have them of course).

    The only way society is going to advance is this way: what you do at work or while representing your employer is directly related to that employer; what you do or say on your own PERSONAL time has nothing to do with your employer and until the rest of the world learns this we're all screwed(that even includes if you reference your employer on your own PERSONAL social media handles). I DO NOT CARE what someone does on their own time, nor should anyone else but that person, even the employer should not care what that person does on their own PERSONAL time, but we as a society have forgotten how to separate work from personal time...that is what work hours are for, so those people unable to tell the difference can.

    Wake up world, this is 2018, not 1984 or 1950 or anyone other year...time to evolve or die out.

    If the person, on their own time and personal social media accounts, is actively promoting themself as a company representative then they have decided to erase the line between personal and professional.

    Like I said, that's old school thinking, which almost everyone is still doing...either humankind evolves or it dies out, until humankind can learn to separate personal time from employee time...we as a society are screwed. I do not care if you mention in your private personal social media accounts who you work for, those are for your own private thoughts, I'm smart enough to realize they do not reflect the company you work for, but as we've all seen...there is another single person in America that is smart enough to be able to do that. I won't speak for the rest of the world...let me put my thinking into a simple example...I wear a uniform at work, while I'm wearing that uniform I am representing my employer, the minute I take off any part of the uniform that identifies my employer I am no on my PERSONAL time and I should be allowed to say anything I want that isn't illegal...even if completely contradicts my employers public image...that is the state the world needs to be in, separate the individual from the job, they are not the same thing.

    Right, but the person who chose to not separate the personal time from the professional was her. She chose to not evolve, as you put it, and suffered the, very unfortunate, consequences.

    Apparently you're unable to comprehend what I'm saying...it isn't only the poster that has to do that, it's also the reader...EVERYONE needs to separate personal time from professional time, even if you list your professional associations on your PERSONAL social media...that is what I am saying. Let me put it this way, say you work an 8 - 5 job, what you say during those 8 - 5 hours reflects on your employer...anything you say outside of those hours, unless you're at a function representing your employer are your PERSONAL opinions and have no reflection on your employer....that is how we as a society need to evolve.

    I understand you and disagree.

    If someone, on their personal time, chooses to declare that they are representing their employer while actively, purposefully, working against the employer's interests...the consequences are theirs to own.

    PS: Drop the personal attacks. You'll get further.

  • Dengar.1785Dengar.1785 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:
    Actually, I'm disappointed in ArenaNet...and the vast majority of the GW community as well...this is 2018, we all need to move into the now and start learning to separate a persons freedom of speech on PERSONAL social media from what they say on BUSINESS related social media. This actually extends beyond social media and includes sports personal conduct clauses...what you or anyone does on their own PERSONAL time does not reflect on how well they perform a job. I'm going to be quite unpopular with the following, but all of this really started with the Ray Rice thing(look it up if you don't know about that) and the NFL. Now, before you think I condone any type of abuse against another person you'd be so far from the truth it would make me laugh, but having said that, even though what he did to his girlfriend in an elevator during the off-season was atrocious, I do not think it was anyone's business but his and hers alone. If you're going to hold someone else up as a role model, society has a serious issue, the only role models should be your parents(if you have them of course).

    The only way society is going to advance is this way: what you do at work or while representing your employer is directly related to that employer; what you do or say on your own PERSONAL time has nothing to do with your employer and until the rest of the world learns this we're all screwed(that even includes if you reference your employer on your own PERSONAL social media handles). I DO NOT CARE what someone does on their own time, nor should anyone else but that person, even the employer should not care what that person does on their own PERSONAL time, but we as a society have forgotten how to separate work from personal time...that is what work hours are for, so those people unable to tell the difference can.

    Wake up world, this is 2018, not 1984 or 1950 or anyone other year...time to evolve or die out.

    If the person, on their own time and personal social media accounts, is actively promoting themself as a company representative then they have decided to erase the line between personal and professional.

    Like I said, that's old school thinking, which almost everyone is still doing...either humankind evolves or it dies out, until humankind can learn to separate personal time from employee time...we as a society are screwed. I do not care if you mention in your private personal social media accounts who you work for, those are for your own private thoughts, I'm smart enough to realize they do not reflect the company you work for, but as we've all seen...there is another single person in America that is smart enough to be able to do that. I won't speak for the rest of the world...let me put my thinking into a simple example...I wear a uniform at work, while I'm wearing that uniform I am representing my employer, the minute I take off any part of the uniform that identifies my employer I am no on my PERSONAL time and I should be allowed to say anything I want that isn't illegal...even if completely contradicts my employers public image...that is the state the world needs to be in, separate the individual from the job, they are not the same thing.

    Right, but the person who chose to not separate the personal time from the professional was her. She chose to not evolve, as you put it, and suffered the, very unfortunate, consequences.

    Apparently you're unable to comprehend what I'm saying...it isn't only the poster that has to do that, it's also the reader...EVERYONE needs to separate personal time from professional time, even if you list your professional associations on your PERSONAL social media...that is what I am saying. Let me put it this way, say you work an 8 - 5 job, what you say during those 8 - 5 hours reflects on your employer...anything you say outside of those hours, unless you're at a function representing your employer are your PERSONAL opinions and have no reflection on your employer....that is how we as a society need to evolve.

    Your argument is invalidated when an employee uses her PERSONAL account to abuse her employer's customers.

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arsalan.5240 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:
    A net partner guy decides to quickly chime in and tell her that she's wrong... The reasons he gives are things that she just explained in her AMA post. It is clear at this point that he didn't even read her entire post, he just wanted to tell her that she was wrong after reading maybe a paragraph--two at most. She goes on twitter and says something like, "Another day as a female game developer, another guy mansplaining my job to me." This leads to some twitter slap-fighting... He then goes to reddit and posts selected parts of their back-and-forth to make it look like she just immediately jumped on him and called him sexist...

    Do you have any screenshots illustrating this? If true, then he has been very misleading.

    People reposted entire transcripts of their interactions in the comments' section of his original reddit post, including her AMA and his initial comments on it... It's just, you know, people only read the headlines or whatever and then jump on a bandwagon.

    Unrelated, her AMA was actually pretty insightful--basically like a lesson from any Screenwritting 101 class.

  • Sarrs.4831Sarrs.4831 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kimmy.1985 said:
    I'm very disappointed in ArenaNet they've really let me down with this.

    Truth be told, I somewhat think that the only letdown from ArenaNet here is that she was allowed to keep her twitter at all. First thing HR checks is this stuff. If they didn't see it coming then something's not right there.

  • @PanBelacqua.9058 said:

    @Dyplex.5798 said:
    I got Path of fire from my brother for my upcoming birthday but after reading the reddit thread and her twitter feed I decided I will return it.
    I do not support sexism in any shape of forrm, be that against women, men or trans. Please take action anet, this is disgusting behaviour.

    Trans people aren't their own gender - trans men are men, trans women are women. If you're referring to people outside the definitions of man or woman, that would be nonbinary.

    I don't think sexism against men is possible (given that sexism is based on societal structures enabling it), but that's besides the point.

    lmao yes its possible
    heres the definition for you incase you forgot:
    prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex

  • Leo G.4501Leo G.4501 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @PecanBlue.4965 said:
    Very disappointed in Anet pandering to what is essentially a bunch of whiny gamers getting upset at someone who undoubtedly faces harassment every day, when the Youtuber probably didn't care that much to begin with. An apology from her, sure, but firing them? Thanks for encouraging the already toxic community.

    Who honestly cares about an empty apology?

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dengar.1785 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:
    Actually, I'm disappointed in ArenaNet...and the vast majority of the GW community as well...this is 2018, we all need to move into the now and start learning to separate a persons freedom of speech on PERSONAL social media from what they say on BUSINESS related social media. This actually extends beyond social media and includes sports personal conduct clauses...what you or anyone does on their own PERSONAL time does not reflect on how well they perform a job. I'm going to be quite unpopular with the following, but all of this really started with the Ray Rice thing(look it up if you don't know about that) and the NFL. Now, before you think I condone any type of abuse against another person you'd be so far from the truth it would make me laugh, but having said that, even though what he did to his girlfriend in an elevator during the off-season was atrocious, I do not think it was anyone's business but his and hers alone. If you're going to hold someone else up as a role model, society has a serious issue, the only role models should be your parents(if you have them of course).

    The only way society is going to advance is this way: what you do at work or while representing your employer is directly related to that employer; what you do or say on your own PERSONAL time has nothing to do with your employer and until the rest of the world learns this we're all screwed(that even includes if you reference your employer on your own PERSONAL social media handles). I DO NOT CARE what someone does on their own time, nor should anyone else but that person, even the employer should not care what that person does on their own PERSONAL time, but we as a society have forgotten how to separate work from personal time...that is what work hours are for, so those people unable to tell the difference can.

    Wake up world, this is 2018, not 1984 or 1950 or anyone other year...time to evolve or die out.

    If the person, on their own time and personal social media accounts, is actively promoting themself as a company representative then they have decided to erase the line between personal and professional.

    Like I said, that's old school thinking, which almost everyone is still doing...either humankind evolves or it dies out, until humankind can learn to separate personal time from employee time...we as a society are screwed. I do not care if you mention in your private personal social media accounts who you work for, those are for your own private thoughts, I'm smart enough to realize they do not reflect the company you work for, but as we've all seen...there is another single person in America that is smart enough to be able to do that. I won't speak for the rest of the world...let me put my thinking into a simple example...I wear a uniform at work, while I'm wearing that uniform I am representing my employer, the minute I take off any part of the uniform that identifies my employer I am now on my PERSONAL time and I should be allowed to say anything I want that isn't illegal...even if completely contradicts my employers public image...that is the state the world needs to be in, separate the individual from the job, they are not the same thing.

    Right, but the person who chose to not separate the personal time from the professional was her. She chose to not evolve, as you put it, and suffered the, very unfortunate, consequences.

    Apparently you're unable to comprehend what I'm saying...it isn't only the poster that has to do that, it's also the reader...EVERYONE needs to separate personal time from professional time, even if you list your professional associations on your PERSONAL social media...that is what I am saying. Let me put it this way, say you work an 8 - 5 job, what you say during those 8 - 5 hours reflects on your employer...anything you say outside of those hours, unless you're at a function representing your employer are your PERSONAL opinions and have no reflection on your employer....that is how we as a society need to evolve.

    Your argument is invalidated when an employee uses her PERSONAL account to abuse her employer's customers.

    We're just going to have to agree to disagree, since I clearly stated the everyone is going to have to learn to separate PERSONAL from PROFESSIONAL, regardless of whom your dealing with in your PERSONAL social media...in my book, what you say and do on your own PERSONAL time and platforms does not reflect on your employer, even if you're interacting with that employers customers.

    Here's a question everyone needs to ask themselves...why do you associate what someone says on their own personal social media with the employer they work for, are people not entitled to think differently and have different opinions than their employer? Shouldn't those people be free to express those differences on their own personal social media accounts, even to people that might be customers of that employer...after all, it's someones private time, they're not on the clock.

    That is how I see the world, there's the professional you and the private you, and those two people do not have to think or act the same, nor do they have to walk on eggshells because their employer might not like what they say on their own private time, even to a customer, even a customer that was clearly in the wrong, customers need to realize the same thing...there's a difference between business time and private time.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Dengar.1785 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:
    Actually, I'm disappointed in ArenaNet...and the vast majority of the GW community as well...this is 2018, we all need to move into the now and start learning to separate a persons freedom of speech on PERSONAL social media from what they say on BUSINESS related social media. This actually extends beyond social media and includes sports personal conduct clauses...what you or anyone does on their own PERSONAL time does not reflect on how well they perform a job. I'm going to be quite unpopular with the following, but all of this really started with the Ray Rice thing(look it up if you don't know about that) and the NFL. Now, before you think I condone any type of abuse against another person you'd be so far from the truth it would make me laugh, but having said that, even though what he did to his girlfriend in an elevator during the off-season was atrocious, I do not think it was anyone's business but his and hers alone. If you're going to hold someone else up as a role model, society has a serious issue, the only role models should be your parents(if you have them of course).

    The only way society is going to advance is this way: what you do at work or while representing your employer is directly related to that employer; what you do or say on your own PERSONAL time has nothing to do with your employer and until the rest of the world learns this we're all screwed(that even includes if you reference your employer on your own PERSONAL social media handles). I DO NOT CARE what someone does on their own time, nor should anyone else but that person, even the employer should not care what that person does on their own PERSONAL time, but we as a society have forgotten how to separate work from personal time...that is what work hours are for, so those people unable to tell the difference can.

    Wake up world, this is 2018, not 1984 or 1950 or anyone other year...time to evolve or die out.

    If the person, on their own time and personal social media accounts, is actively promoting themself as a company representative then they have decided to erase the line between personal and professional.

    Like I said, that's old school thinking, which almost everyone is still doing...either humankind evolves or it dies out, until humankind can learn to separate personal time from employee time...we as a society are screwed. I do not care if you mention in your private personal social media accounts who you work for, those are for your own private thoughts, I'm smart enough to realize they do not reflect the company you work for, but as we've all seen...there is another single person in America that is smart enough to be able to do that. I won't speak for the rest of the world...let me put my thinking into a simple example...I wear a uniform at work, while I'm wearing that uniform I am representing my employer, the minute I take off any part of the uniform that identifies my employer I am now on my PERSONAL time and I should be allowed to say anything I want that isn't illegal...even if completely contradicts my employers public image...that is the state the world needs to be in, separate the individual from the job, they are not the same thing.

    Right, but the person who chose to not separate the personal time from the professional was her. She chose to not evolve, as you put it, and suffered the, very unfortunate, consequences.

    Apparently you're unable to comprehend what I'm saying...it isn't only the poster that has to do that, it's also the reader...EVERYONE needs to separate personal time from professional time, even if you list your professional associations on your PERSONAL social media...that is what I am saying. Let me put it this way, say you work an 8 - 5 job, what you say during those 8 - 5 hours reflects on your employer...anything you say outside of those hours, unless you're at a function representing your employer are your PERSONAL opinions and have no reflection on your employer....that is how we as a society need to evolve.

    Your argument is invalidated when an employee uses her PERSONAL account to abuse her employer's customers.

    We're just going to have to agree to disagree, since I clearly stated the everyone is going to have to learn to separate PERSONAL from PROFESSIONAL, regardless of whom your dealing with in your PERSONAL social media...in my book, what you say and do on your own PERSONAL time and platforms does not reflect on your employer, even if you're interacting with that employers customers.

    Here's a question everyone needs to ask themselves...why do you associate what someone says on their own personal social media with the employer they work for, are people not entitled to think differently and have different opinions than their employer? Shouldn't those people be free to express those differences on their own personal social media accounts, even to people that might be customers of that employer...after all, it's someones private time, they're not on the clock.

    That is how I see the world, there's the professional you and the private you, and those two people do not have to think or act the same, nor do they have to walk on eggshells because their employer might not like what they say on their own private time, even to a customer, even a customer that was clearly in the wrong, customers need to realize the same thing...there's a difference between business time and private time.

    this is not about her views but about her being an kitten and sexist to fans

  • Sarrs.4831Sarrs.4831 Member ✭✭✭

    @kimeekat.2548 said:
    a dev doesn't owe you anything on their own time

    If you, as a twitter user, genuinely don't feel a post warrants a response?

    Don't respond.

  • melodyca.8921melodyca.8921 Member ✭✭
    edited July 6, 2018

    @Alukah.2063 said:

    @melodyca.8921 said:

    @Alukah.2063 said:

    @starhunter.6015 said:

    @FearTheOyster.5138 said:
    I'm sad that Price had to be let go, but firing Peter Fries is shocking. An employee should never be punished for sticking up for a coworker when facing a backlash on social media -- even if said coworker is in the wrong. This'll have a horrible affect on your work environment in the long run.

    Sorta of agree, but fired for sticking up no. But should be held accountable and reprimanded yes. Then given a second chance.

    After this?

    She said that in response to TotalBiscuit passing away.

    And about 10 other developers made the same remarks. Yes its wrong to do but developer abuse and harassment is not right in any way shape or form. The fact remains many youtubers incite fans to do that. Or do you find that its acceptable for fans to do that?

    The bioware dev that made similar remarks also got fired for it.

    @PecanBlue.4965 said:
    Very disappointed in Anet pandering to what is essentially a bunch of whiny gamers getting upset at someone who undoubtedly faces harassment every day, when the Youtuber probably didn't care that much to begin with. An apology from her, sure, but firing them? Thanks for encouraging the already toxic community.

    You don't know what went behind the curtains, she could have been asked to apologize and refused.

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:
    Actually, I'm disappointed in ArenaNet...and the vast majority of the GW community as well...this is 2018, we all need to move into the now and start learning to separate a persons freedom of speech on PERSONAL social media from what they say on BUSINESS related social media. This actually extends beyond social media and includes sports personal conduct clauses...what you or anyone does on their own PERSONAL time does not reflect on how well they perform a job. I'm going to be quite unpopular with the following, but all of this really started with the Ray Rice thing(look it up if you don't know about that) and the NFL. Now, before you think I condone any type of abuse against another person you'd be so far from the truth it would make me laugh, but having said that, even though what he did to his girlfriend in an elevator during the off-season was atrocious, I do not think it was anyone's business but his and hers alone. If you're going to hold someone else up as a role model, society has a serious issue, the only role models should be your parents(if you have them of course).

    The only way society is going to advance is this way: what you do at work or while representing your employer is directly related to that employer; what you do or say on your own PERSONAL time has nothing to do with your employer and until the rest of the world learns this we're all screwed(that even includes if you reference your employer on your own PERSONAL social media handles). I DO NOT CARE what someone does on their own time, nor should anyone else but that person, even the employer should not care what that person does on their own PERSONAL time, but we as a society have forgotten how to separate work from personal time...that is what work hours are for, so those people unable to tell the difference can.

    Wake up world, this is 2018, not 1984 or 1950 or anyone other year...time to evolve or die out.

    If the person, on their own time and personal social media accounts, is actively promoting themself as a company representative then they have decided to erase the line between personal and professional.

    Like I said, that's old school thinking, which almost everyone is still doing...either humankind evolves or it dies out, until humankind can learn to separate personal time from employee time...we as a society are screwed. I do not care if you mention in your private personal social media accounts who you work for, those are for your own private thoughts, I'm smart enough to realize they do not reflect the company you work for, but as we've all seen...there is another single person in America that is smart enough to be able to do that. I won't speak for the rest of the world...let me put my thinking into a simple example...I wear a uniform at work, while I'm wearing that uniform I am representing my employer, the minute I take off any part of the uniform that identifies my employer I am no on my PERSONAL time and I should be allowed to say anything I want that isn't illegal...even if completely contradicts my employers public image...that is the state the world needs to be in, separate the individual from the job, they are not the same thing.

    Right, but the person who chose to not separate the personal time from the professional was her. She chose to not evolve, as you put it, and suffered the, very unfortunate, consequences.

    Apparently you're unable to comprehend what I'm saying...it isn't only the poster that has to do that, it's also the reader...EVERYONE needs to separate personal time from professional time, even if you list your professional associations on your PERSONAL social media...that is what I am saying. Let me put it this way, say you work an 8 - 5 job, what you say during those 8 - 5 hours reflects on your employer...anything you say outside of those hours, unless you're at a function representing your employer are your PERSONAL opinions and have no reflection on your employer....that is how we as a society need to evolve.

    If you spend your personal time insulting and ridiculing your boss customers in public don't expect your boss to keep you around very long.

    Actually the BioWare dev was already gone from the company when it happened. Clickbait youtubers like to perpetuate the lie hat he wasn't

  • Knuckle Joe.7408Knuckle Joe.7408 Member ✭✭✭

    Thanks Mike.

  • It's sad to see an outcome like this, but in the circumstances, particularly in the case of Jessica, seemingly unavoidable.

    As has been dug up since this fiasco first started, there is a history of very toxic attitudes and positions from this former employee. Some were over the top. In the case of her Total Biscuit comments, utterly disgusting. But they were her opinions, and whatever our opinion of her from those outbursts, it can be argued personal opinion and her work were still separate. Here, her fatal flaw was bringing her work into her personal twitter account. Her initial post was very insightful, and showed that she has/had a deep thought process and care for her job. Maybe she got the wrong end of the stick with the guy's questions, maybe she was annoyed that someone tried to start a conversation. No matter. When she brought her work into her personal account on a public forum, and this dumpster fire started from it, it becomes a work matter.

    I don't know if she was offered the chance to apologise and move on. I know there have been some catastrophic foul ups and mistreatment of playerbases across the industry, and many if not most of those still ended with the guilty party retaining their job, if not their pride. Maybe a solution was looked for out of the public gaze first and she doubled down on her attacks. I kinda hope there was that olive branch offered because I try to believe in the good in everyone and believe everyone deserves another chance if they are truly remorseful. I'm not certain in this instance that would have been viable, or even appropriate to look for, but it is a hope.

    Peter's fate seems a lot less cut and dry. He fouled up, and pinned his colours to her mast, but I don't see the same level of issue. Maybe his level was enough and Jessica just stepped so far over the line she could no longer see that line. Either way, it's sad that two people have lost their jobs over this debacle, but actions and words can have serious consequences. I'm glad that Anet and MO are working to promote a strong foundation of community interaction based upon mutual respect. We are expected to be respectful to Anet's representatives, and rightly so. It's only fair to expect the same back.

  • SimBilly.8047SimBilly.8047 Member ✭✭

    @Dengar.1785 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:
    Actually, I'm disappointed in ArenaNet... (snip)

    Whether the media is personal or public becomes rather irrelevant when the people you're mistreating are the people who buy and promote your company's product.

    Exactly. She was quite vile and extremely rude in response to a player's politely worded post on a public forum where she publicly identifies herself as an Anet employee. Anet made the right decision here.

  • Leo G.4501Leo G.4501 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kimeekat.2548 said:
    I'm disappointed in Arenanet and really upset that Peter is gone. Collecting some things I've said elsewhere in the hope that Gaile or someone sees:

    The entire thesis of her twitter thread is that it's the genre that causes the constraint and The Partner's reply was basically like, "slight disagreement: have you instead considered that the problem is just your game" - a friendly pop in to disagree with the entire premise of the thread and her professional perspective with a backhanded comment for the narrative design team about how their implementation doesn't meet his standards because their choices are "just on the checklist for an achievement".

    Okay, I don't see that as a backhand. She says the genre is the fault point here but the partner says "perhaps it's just your game"? That's exactly right. SWTOR is the anti-thesis to her observation. Rather than dismiss the comment, why not discect it? Look into how the living story formula plays out and what is optimal, what is constrained, what is detrimental, what could be improved. If the logic is, the way things are is perfect, then that right there is the divide in perspective.

    She just wrote a whole thread about why+how that is and Anet has talked about the struggles of branching decisions+dialogue many times, down to the additional resources that unique "end conversation" text options take up even within a single conversation tree, which is why we see player choices primarily in expansions where the story arc is more compact and contained alongside a more traditional ending where the choices can converge once more. Her thread was a personal thought after the AMA, not the AMA itself - and even if it was an AMA he didn't ask a question, he did that thing where someone says, "more of a comment than a question" and I thought the meme war had already been fought on whether that move is a faux pas or not.

    No, that isn't a faux pas. It never was.

  • Sarrs.4831Sarrs.4831 Member ✭✭✭

    @kimeekat.2548 said:
    She obviously felt it was a backhanded comment that plays into a larger pattern of sexism that women deal with when they step into games, and as such did warrant a response so I'm not sure what good this advice does.

    ...This is the exact opposite of what you should do. Internet rule 1: Don't feed the trolls.

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leo G.4501 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Dengar.1785 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:
    Actually, I'm disappointed in ArenaNet...and the vast majority of the GW community as well...this is 2018, we all need to move into the now and start learning to separate a persons freedom of speech on PERSONAL social media from what they say on BUSINESS related social media. This actually extends beyond social media and includes sports personal conduct clauses...what you or anyone does on their own PERSONAL time does not reflect on how well they perform a job. I'm going to be quite unpopular with the following, but all of this really started with the Ray Rice thing(look it up if you don't know about that) and the NFL. Now, before you think I condone any type of abuse against another person you'd be so far from the truth it would make me laugh, but having said that, even though what he did to his girlfriend in an elevator during the off-season was atrocious, I do not think it was anyone's business but his and hers alone. If you're going to hold someone else up as a role model, society has a serious issue, the only role models should be your parents(if you have them of course).

    The only way society is going to advance is this way: what you do at work or while representing your employer is directly related to that employer; what you do or say on your own PERSONAL time has nothing to do with your employer and until the rest of the world learns this we're all screwed(that even includes if you reference your employer on your own PERSONAL social media handles). I DO NOT CARE what someone does on their own time, nor should anyone else but that person, even the employer should not care what that person does on their own PERSONAL time, but we as a society have forgotten how to separate work from personal time...that is what work hours are for, so those people unable to tell the difference can.

    Wake up world, this is 2018, not 1984 or 1950 or anyone other year...time to evolve or die out.

    If the person, on their own time and personal social media accounts, is actively promoting themself as a company representative then they have decided to erase the line between personal and professional.

    Like I said, that's old school thinking, which almost everyone is still doing...either humankind evolves or it dies out, until humankind can learn to separate personal time from employee time...we as a society are screwed. I do not care if you mention in your private personal social media accounts who you work for, those are for your own private thoughts, I'm smart enough to realize they do not reflect the company you work for, but as we've all seen...there is another single person in America that is smart enough to be able to do that. I won't speak for the rest of the world...let me put my thinking into a simple example...I wear a uniform at work, while I'm wearing that uniform I am representing my employer, the minute I take off any part of the uniform that identifies my employer I am now on my PERSONAL time and I should be allowed to say anything I want that isn't illegal...even if completely contradicts my employers public image...that is the state the world needs to be in, separate the individual from the job, they are not the same thing.

    Right, but the person who chose to not separate the personal time from the professional was her. She chose to not evolve, as you put it, and suffered the, very unfortunate, consequences.

    Apparently you're unable to comprehend what I'm saying...it isn't only the poster that has to do that, it's also the reader...EVERYONE needs to separate personal time from professional time, even if you list your professional associations on your PERSONAL social media...that is what I am saying. Let me put it this way, say you work an 8 - 5 job, what you say during those 8 - 5 hours reflects on your employer...anything you say outside of those hours, unless you're at a function representing your employer are your PERSONAL opinions and have no reflection on your employer....that is how we as a society need to evolve.

    Your argument is invalidated when an employee uses her PERSONAL account to abuse her employer's customers.

    We're just going to have to agree to disagree, since I clearly stated the everyone is going to have to learn to separate PERSONAL from PROFESSIONAL, regardless of whom your dealing with in your PERSONAL social media...in my book, what you say and do on your own PERSONAL time and platforms does not reflect on your employer, even if you're interacting with that employers customers.

    Here's a question everyone needs to ask themselves...why do you associate what someone says on their own personal social media with the employer they work for, are people not entitled to think differently and have different opinions than their employer? Shouldn't those people be free to express those differences on their own personal social media accounts, even to people that might be customers of that employer...after all, it's someones private time, they're not on the clock.

    That is how I see the world, there's the professional you and the private you, and those two people do not have to think or act the same, nor do they have to walk on eggshells because their employer might not like what they say on their own private time, even to a customer, even a customer that was clearly in the wrong, customers need to realize the same thing...there's a difference between business time and private time.

    Good. You have conviction in your views!

    Now open your eyes and look at your own perspective critically. Own your biases and understand how they could distort your viewpoints. Take in a bigger picture and reflect.

    To answer your question: why do you associate what someone says on their own personal social media with the employer they work for..?

    I'll ask you a question: why would anyone be able to discern that you work for a certain employer at all?

    In an ideal mass social media environment, your annonymity is your saving grace and narcissism is your worst enemy.

    Which is why you won't find who I work for on the few social media sites I use...it was there, but then people tend to not like my employer, so it no longer says who I currently work for, just a past employer that has been swallowed up by another company...actually all of my past employers basically no longer exist, either through acquisition or from the owner going out of business because of age. Essentially though, I don't care what anyone else thinks about me based on my statements...no one else matters but me, not even my friends, if they think I'm an kitten, I don't care, they're entitled to their opinion...so is everyone else.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • Brother.1504Brother.1504 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:
    Actually, I'm disappointed in ArenaNet...and the vast majority of the GW community as well...this is 2018, we all need to move into the now and start learning to separate a persons freedom of speech on PERSONAL social media from what they say on BUSINESS related social media. This actually extends beyond social media and includes sports personal conduct clauses...what you or anyone does on their own PERSONAL time does not reflect on how well they perform a job. I'm going to be quite unpopular with the following, but all of this really started with the Ray Rice thing(look it up if you don't know about that) and the NFL. Now, before you think I condone any type of abuse against another person you'd be so far from the truth it would make me laugh, but having said that, even though what he did to his girlfriend in an elevator during the off-season was atrocious, I do not think it was anyone's business but his and hers alone. If you're going to hold someone else up as a role model, society has a serious issue, the only role models should be your parents(if you have them of course).

    The only way society is going to advance is this way: what you do at work or while representing your employer is directly related to that employer; what you do or say on your own PERSONAL time has nothing to do with your employer and until the rest of the world learns this we're all screwed(that even includes if you reference your employer on your own PERSONAL social media handles). I DO NOT CARE what someone does on their own time, nor should anyone else but that person, even the employer should not care what that person does on their own PERSONAL time, but we as a society have forgotten how to separate work from personal time...that is what work hours are for, so those people unable to tell the difference can.

    Wake up world, this is 2018, not 1984 or 1950 or anyone other year...time to evolve or die out.

    If the person, on their own time and personal social media accounts, is actively promoting themself as a company representative then they have decided to erase the line between personal and professional.

    Like I said, that's old school thinking, which almost everyone is still doing...either humankind evolves or it dies out, until humankind can learn to separate personal time from employee time...we as a society are screwed. I do not care if you mention in your private personal social media accounts who you work for, those are for your own private thoughts, I'm smart enough to realize they do not reflect the company you work for, but as we've all seen...there is another single person in America that is smart enough to be able to do that. I won't speak for the rest of the world...let me put my thinking into a simple example...I wear a uniform at work, while I'm wearing that uniform I am representing my employer, the minute I take off any part of the uniform that identifies my employer I am no on my PERSONAL time and I should be allowed to say anything I want that isn't illegal...even if completely contradicts my employers public image...that is the state the world needs to be in, separate the individual from the job, they are not the same thing.

    Right, but the person who chose to not separate the personal time from the professional was her. She chose to not evolve, as you put it, and suffered the, very unfortunate, consequences.

    Apparently you're unable to comprehend what I'm saying...it isn't only the poster that has to do that, it's also the reader...EVERYONE needs to separate personal time from professional time, even if you list your professional associations on your PERSONAL social media...that is what I am saying. Let me put it this way, say you work an 8 - 5 job, what you say during those 8 - 5 hours reflects on your employer...anything you say outside of those hours, unless you're at a function representing your employer are your PERSONAL opinions and have no reflection on your employer....that is how we as a society need to evolve.

    This is social media policy and procedures 101 in most professions. Personal time is yours, when representing the brand your always professional, even in this politically charged times we are living. This is a learning experience for all parties involved. Anet management handled this well, quick, decisive, with a strong internal and public message.

  • Is it too early to ask if ArenaNet is hiring again?

  • Brother.1504Brother.1504 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Valkira Laments.8762 said:
    Is it too early to ask if ArenaNet is hiring again?

    Not too early just in extremely bad taste.

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Brother.1504 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:
    Actually, I'm disappointed in ArenaNet...and the vast majority of the GW community as well...this is 2018, we all need to move into the now and start learning to separate a persons freedom of speech on PERSONAL social media from what they say on BUSINESS related social media. This actually extends beyond social media and includes sports personal conduct clauses...what you or anyone does on their own PERSONAL time does not reflect on how well they perform a job. I'm going to be quite unpopular with the following, but all of this really started with the Ray Rice thing(look it up if you don't know about that) and the NFL. Now, before you think I condone any type of abuse against another person you'd be so far from the truth it would make me laugh, but having said that, even though what he did to his girlfriend in an elevator during the off-season was atrocious, I do not think it was anyone's business but his and hers alone. If you're going to hold someone else up as a role model, society has a serious issue, the only role models should be your parents(if you have them of course).

    The only way society is going to advance is this way: what you do at work or while representing your employer is directly related to that employer; what you do or say on your own PERSONAL time has nothing to do with your employer and until the rest of the world learns this we're all screwed(that even includes if you reference your employer on your own PERSONAL social media handles). I DO NOT CARE what someone does on their own time, nor should anyone else but that person, even the employer should not care what that person does on their own PERSONAL time, but we as a society have forgotten how to separate work from personal time...that is what work hours are for, so those people unable to tell the difference can.

    Wake up world, this is 2018, not 1984 or 1950 or anyone other year...time to evolve or die out.

    If the person, on their own time and personal social media accounts, is actively promoting themself as a company representative then they have decided to erase the line between personal and professional.

    Like I said, that's old school thinking, which almost everyone is still doing...either humankind evolves or it dies out, until humankind can learn to separate personal time from employee time...we as a society are screwed. I do not care if you mention in your private personal social media accounts who you work for, those are for your own private thoughts, I'm smart enough to realize they do not reflect the company you work for, but as we've all seen...there is another single person in America that is smart enough to be able to do that. I won't speak for the rest of the world...let me put my thinking into a simple example...I wear a uniform at work, while I'm wearing that uniform I am representing my employer, the minute I take off any part of the uniform that identifies my employer I am no on my PERSONAL time and I should be allowed to say anything I want that isn't illegal...even if completely contradicts my employers public image...that is the state the world needs to be in, separate the individual from the job, they are not the same thing.

    Right, but the person who chose to not separate the personal time from the professional was her. She chose to not evolve, as you put it, and suffered the, very unfortunate, consequences.

    Apparently you're unable to comprehend what I'm saying...it isn't only the poster that has to do that, it's also the reader...EVERYONE needs to separate personal time from professional time, even if you list your professional associations on your PERSONAL social media...that is what I am saying. Let me put it this way, say you work an 8 - 5 job, what you say during those 8 - 5 hours reflects on your employer...anything you say outside of those hours, unless you're at a function representing your employer are your PERSONAL opinions and have no reflection on your employer....that is how we as a society need to evolve.

    This is social media policy and procedures 101 in most professions. Personal time is yours, when representing the brand your always professional, even in this politically charged times we are living. This is a learning experience for all parties involved. Anet management handled this well, quick, decisive, with a strong internal and public message.

    I understand that, and I'm saying it needs to change and it needs to change now, pronto, yesterday, last year...no one should ever be considered to representing a brand when on personal time, even if you display that brand on your personal social media(which is self-defeating until those "brands" realize this simple fact)...that is what I'm trying to get at. If we here in the United States made it illegal for businesses to use an employees personal social media accounts against them, that would be a big step in opening up the avenues of dissent and discussion on all fronts, but that will never happen because...reasons that would probably get me in trouble.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • Sarrs.4831Sarrs.4831 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zaklex.6308 said:
    If we here in the United States made it illegal for businesses to use an employees personal social media accounts against them, that would be a big step in opening up the avenues of dissent and discussion on all fronts, but that will never happen because...reasons that would probably get me in trouble.

    You believe that someone who uses their personal twitter to attack their employer's customers should be protected under the law?...

  • Blaeys.3102Blaeys.3102 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 6, 2018

    For everyone criticizing these people being fired - take a closer look at what Mike Obrien wrote. "As a result, they are no longer with the company." He never said they were fired. All we know is they are gone. It is just as likely that the company offered a way out of this and they chose to leave instead. We just don't know - and likely never will - and I am sure this decision wasn't made casually.

    At the end of the day, it is probably just better for everyone that this is over and behind them.

  • @Brother.1504 said:

    @Valkira Laments.8762 said:
    Is it too early to ask if ArenaNet is hiring again?

    Not too early just in extremely bad taste.

    And you would defend someone who has no problems being toxic towards you. You have a really bad taste in people.

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