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What is the Mist? Whats its limitations?


Knighthonor.4061

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I am somewhat confused about the Mist, after a debate on the Revenant forum. The argument was that Balthazar cant be channeled through the Mist because he a god. But I thought the Mist stretches through and not bound by time? And since GW1 era 200 years ago the characters channeled the magic of the gods to do their skills, I dont see why a Revenant cant channel the same energy from 200 years ago since the Mist is not limited by time.

But that brings up other aspects of the mist. WvW and SPvP. They both in the Mist. I was under the impression that WvW is a world fighting against its other dimension counterparts ( which we call servers or worlds). But with the Mist having the ability to do that it seem very powerful to not be all encompassing of the Gods as well.

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For reference, this seems to be the thread OP mentions: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/39999/we-are-getting-balthazar-gs-as-our-next-legend-right-anet

@"Knighthonor.4061" said:The argument was that Balthazar cant be channeled through the Mist because he a god.In theory, it should be possible to channel him. The requirement is that the individual makes a strong enough impact on history so as to leave an imprint on the Mists. However, given that we channel Mallyx instead of Abaddon, it may be that gods are beyond a revenant. This can be because of one of two reasons:

  1. There's a limit to how much a power revenant can channel, which would mean that while one must be very important to leave an impact, if one is super strong they become "no longer valid" as a legend.
  2. As legends are, while not individual souls, sapient echoes, not all are willing to be used be they good guys or bad, and individuals like Abaddon and Balthazar would certainly fall unto that. Shiro and Mallyx do, and one of the early mechanics for Mallyx was that there was a drawback to the skills because of this (this was later removed for balance, but kept in the lore). If Mallyx, an (albeit powerful) demon can be harmful to the revenant, a god may be downright deadly, and it'd be too big of a risk for the revenant to channel the god's power.

In this sense, we may not see a PC channel a god's legend this way, but NPC revenants who are meant to be above-and-beyond (for the former) or major risk-takers (for the latter) or both may.

But I thought the Mist stretches through and not bound by time?Rather than "not bound by time", it's that the Mists - more specifically, the Rift - connects all places and all times.

And since GW1 era 200 years ago the characters channeled the magic of the gods to do their skills, I dont see why a Revenant cant channel the same energy from 200 years ago since the Mist is not limited by time.What a revenant channels is an echo created by the Mists, not the actual powers of the being. So this isn't a proper comparison.

But that brings up other aspects of the mist. WvW and SPvP. They both in the Mist. I was under the impression that WvW is a world fighting against its other dimension counterparts ( which we call servers or worlds). But with the Mist having the ability to do that it seem very powerful to not be all encompassing of the Gods as well.

So what little lore we have on WvW is basically that three alternate Tyrias are fighting for resources in the borderlands - which presumably given their names, are part of the Mists that's closest to the respective Tyrias. What we were told is that major figures and events are all the same across the Tyrias, but minor ones differ. That every Tyria would have a Logan Thackeray and a Scarlet Briar, but your average adventurer would differ. Whether the Six Gods (or Elder Dragons) are included in this is unclear though. The roles may be filled the same but the individuals different, for example.

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@kasoki.5180 said:Gods are powerful mist-walkers, but not echos in the mist. And thats what revenant channels.

Shiro wasn't an echo; Mallyx wasn't either, nor Glint, Kalla, Ventari, Jalis, or Joko. But echoes of them were made and the revenant can channel that.

Nothing, as far as we players know, prevents a Mists-being (be they like the gods, or like Razah or Viirastra) from having an echo of them created by the Mists.

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It is also possible that the souls of Abaddon and Balthazar are permanently destroyed, after all they are just some form of magic and might have been absorbed by a souleater, Dhuum or whatever. In this case Kormir (Abaddon), Kralkatorrik and Aurene (Balthazar) being the most logical.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"kasoki.5180" said:Gods are powerful mist-walkers, but not echos in the mist. And thats what revenant channels.

Shiro wasn't an echo; Mallyx wasn't either, nor Glint, Kalla, Ventari, Jalis, or Joko. But echoes of them
were made
and the revenant can channel that.

Nothing, as far as we players know, prevents a Mists-being (be they like the gods, or like Razah or Viirastra) from having an echo of them created by the Mists.

I though it was understood that echoes are magical imprints from individuals that previously existed. I don't understand the point of emphasizing that they existed as that is understood by the term "echo".

And again, revenant would be potentally only able only to channel echo of the god, not the gods themself. And thats what OP was asking, unless I missunderstood original post

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@Malediktus.9250 said:I dont think the mists maintains anything by itself, things start crumbling when there is nothing maintaining it. Like Kormir's library starts falling apart the moment her influence is leaving that area of the mists.

The Rift maintains itself. As far as I know.

And Kormir's library starts falling apart because she is the one that kept it protected and danger free. The domain of the lost, similarly held by Grenth and abandoned had this happen too with the eater of souls. Those were domains created/maintained by the six human gods, it doesn't really fall into the same category as the mists itself creating echos of important events that revenants can channel. If I make a car and abandon it, it will deteriorate, but the forest surrounding the car has always been there and will creep in and accelerate it's deterioration.

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That is probably a bad comparison. The forest will wither and die if the sun stops shining and/or rain (or other sources of water) stops. This is basically the same as needing maintenance or it starts crumbling.

On the other side the mists are just a handy plot device that can do whatever the devs want, whether it makes sense or not. I think Anet never fully revealed how and why the mists exactly work and exist. Probably so they can continue to use it as a shallow explaination for everything they want to explain with it. So a lot of things will stay a matter of speculation.

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@Malediktus.9250 said:Wouldnt those imprints also vanish without being maintained by something?@Malediktus.9250 said:I dont think the mists maintains anything by itself, things start crumbling when there is nothing maintaining it. Like Kormir's library starts falling apart the moment her influence is leaving that area of the mists.

By all accounts, The Mists is what maintains them - if anything at all. Kormir's sanctum didn't begin crumbling once she left, her protections against natural, hostile Mists entities (such as Nightmares and demons) disappeared. There's a difference there. The Realm of Torment and The Underworld will continue to exist, it just won't be as safe as it is anymore.

Imagine, if you will, a walled city like ancient Rome. At some point, the walls crumble due to lack of maintenance - is the city gone? No. Raiders come in and ransack the place, but is the city, and the ground that the city stood upon, gone? No. But what if the raiders burn the city to the ground? Then it is gone.

Were the Sanctum to be left alone from the demons and Nightmares, it'd remain quite fine. Just as we see with The Underworld and its many domains (Winter's Vigil, Domain of the List, and Mad Realm).

There's nothing beyond the Mists to maintain the afterlifes as they existed long before the gods arrived and they're still there now that the gods are gone; similarly, nothing maintains the Fractals (both the dungeon fractals and the sPvP maps) or the borderlands.

@kasoki.5180 said:And again, revenant would be potentally only able only to channel echo of the god, not the gods themself. And thats what OP was asking, unless I missunderstood original post

I think you misunderstood the original post as they're asking in the context of channeling Balthazar in the same scope as any other revenant legend. So in technicality, channeling Balthazar's legend/imprint on the Mists.

@Malediktus.9250 said:On the other side the mists are just a handy plot device that can do whatever the devs want, whether it makes sense or not. I think Anet never fully revealed how and why the mists exactly work and exist. Probably so they can continue to use it as a shallow explaination for everything they want to explain with it. So a lot of things will stay a matter of speculation.

The Mists are the protomatter and building blocks of reality that encompass all space and time of the multiverse, which is continuously creating things, most often copies of things that leaves an imprint on it in some form. This can come in the form of small islands of existence that continuously repeat a specific moment in time (the fractals/sPvP maps), or half-worlds where spirits go to (The Underworld, Fissure of Woe, Realm of Torment, etc.), or full worlds like the multiple Tyrias.

Most copies are incomplete or imperfect (fractals and demons, for landscapes and individuals respectively). For example, Spears of Torment appear to be misshapen, horrific copies of centaurs, while Heralds of Nightmares appear to be the same of Ntouka Birds. Not all beings made by the Mists are demonic, mind you; there's also entities like Razah.

All of that is 100% canon and statements from devs.

The Mists are basically the combination of a perpetual Big Bang, all forms of afterlife together, and a hub that crosses and connects time and space.

A rather wide-spread definition, but not exactly "shallow".

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