@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@TheBravery.9615 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@"hunkamania.7561" said:When is this happening? What was the point of this post if you're not gonna do anything anytime soon? AC's are still OP. 11111111111111111111111 for the win

OK

Just a thought, but how about we change the WvW abilities to something similar to character trait specializations? Create WvW specializations/Jobs?

• Can make for some interesting mix-ups in this game mode, give all professions a role and place in WvW
• Provide a refined sense of WvW progression, allow new players in WvW to be equally as effective in combat compared to a veteran with thousands of wvw playtime.

Rules

• Characters may only have one WvW specialization at a time, only able to change "traits" (e.g. master 1/2/3) using the ability reset guide from the world ability master for 25 spirit shards.
• May change traits (major traits) unlimited times for 25 spirit shards, but can only change wvw specializations once per reset for 100 spirit shards and some number of wvw badges.
• All traits will need to be unlocked separately, specific to each character (not by account). Traits are unlocked as your character 'trains' in a WvW specialization, unlocking minor traits every 5 levels gained and a set of major (1/2/3) every 10 levels gained. Legendary traits are unlocked through prerequisites and a vendor purchase.
• It will be assumed that all current wvw abilities are null when applying these changes with the exception of provisions mastery, in which all players will have access to in full from the start.
• Some parts of siege mastery may be created baseline, basic gliding abilities may be baseline as well.
• WvW ranks will change to something like.. Adept Commander, Grandmaster Sapper, Legendary Scout, etc instead of bronze/silver/gold/plat footman etc
• Add Skimmer as a mount usable in wvw, with modified characteristics. moves at a slightly slower speed than the PvE variant. Can only mount outside of combat, can only move a certain distance before dismounting (moving will use up endurance, will dismount when endurance goes to 0) and going on cooldown. CC knocks players off mounts.

Commander

Theme: Siege supply, team support

• Minor Adept: You can throw siege while moving now. Thrown siege blueprints deal damage and knocks down foes.
  • Major Adept 1: Gain all effects of defense against guards / guard killer
  • Major Adept 2: You are able to purchase soulbound siege at discounted prices
  • Major Adept 3: Siege you drop have 20% more health.
• Minor Master: Throw siege faster, gain all effects of supply master.
  • Major Master 1: Allied NPCs in a radius around you are granted a level increase (deal more damage, receive glancing blows more often), and will assist in reviving the player you are reviving.
  • Major Master 2: Allied dolyaks near you are granted superspeed, Gain protection and deal +15% damage / condi damage when you are near an allied dolyak.
  • Major Master 3: Nearby ally players are granted a movement speed increase outside of combat and build the siege build sites you drop faster.
• Minor Grandmaster: Increase supply capacity by 5
  • Major Grandmaster 1: Tactivators are set to a shorter cooldown when you activate them.
  • Major Grandmaster 2: Squad markers / targets on enemies will remain even if your target stealths. Markers/targets set on enemies will disappear if you haven't attacked the target in 10 minutes.
  • Major Grandmaster 3: Your squad rallies, gains all boons for 10 seconds, and refills endurance when you successfully stomp the enemy commander. Become immune to CC when stomping an enemy commander.
• Legendary: You become able to see nearby enemy commanders on the mini-map. Deal 20% more damage/condition damage to enemy commanders as long as you are a commander. (Unlock prerequisite: 25,000 kills while training, 50 legendary spikes, all previous traits unlocked)

Scout

Theme: Surveying the enemy and defense

• Minor Adept: WvW traps use less supply. Uses no supply if outnumbered.
  • Major Adept 1: Gain stealth when using a trap, trap effect radius is doubled and more effective.
  • Major Adept 2: Gain stability when throwing a siege disabler trap. Successful siege disablers inflict a 'rot' effect, increasing the dealing damage over time to the siege while it's disabled.
  • Major Adept 3: The stealth / supply trap sets instantly, has combined effects, and deals damage/stuns when triggered.
• Minor Master: Gain all effects of war gliding mastery.
  • Major Master 1: Gain all effects of mortar mastery / cannon mastery / burning oil mastery.
  • Major Master 2: Gain all effects of repair mastery / build master / Mercenary's bane
  • Major Master 3: Gain superspeed when you kill a dolyak or lord.
• Minor Grandmaster: Gain all effects of arrow cart mastery, ballista mastery, and shield generator mastery.
  • Major Grandmaster 1: When you are defeated in combat, you will create a waypoint only party members can see and use it (5 players maximum teleported per waypoint, 120s cd)
  • Major Grandmaster 2: You are granted combat abilities while gliding. (4 bomb drops, and 1 dive bomb, each skill able to be used once per glide, recharges when on the ground)
  • Major Grandmaster 3: Allied players in your squad/party deal 5% more damage / condition damage to your target (Stacks to maximum of 25% in a party of 5 similar spec players)
• Legendary: Gain the ability to camouflage if you haven't moved in 15 seconds. Receiving damage or moving will break camouflage and reveal you. Enemies nearby you within controlled territory while camouflaged are marked for ally players. (Unlock prerequisite: 25,000 kills while training, 50 legendary spikes, all previous traits unlocked)

Sapper

Theme: Destruction of enemy objectives

• Minor Adept: Gain all effects of siege might / Siege bunker
  • Major Adept 1: Siege weapons recharge faster and deal burn damage to structures.
  • Major Adept 2: Deal more damage to enemy siege engines, your attacks inflict 'rot', dealing damage over time to siege engines.
  • Major Adept 3: You are able to repair siege.
• Minor Master: Gain all effects of siege golem mastery. Alpha/guild golems now use omega golem abilities.
  • Major Master 1: You become able to see enemy traps on the mini map and disarm them by interacting nearby.
  • Major Master 2: Steal supply off enemy players when you successfully stomp them.
  • Major Master 3: You are able to upgrade placed siege as long as the siege engine is at full health.
• Minor Grandmaster: Gain all effects of catapult mastery, flame ram mastery, and trebuchet mastery.
  • Major Grandmaster 1: When you are defeated in combat, your corpse will activate a hidden bomb and detonate after a few seconds, dealing high damage.
  • Major Grandmaster 2: You are able to deal damage to lords / NPCs with righteous indignation, but receive 25% more incoming damage from them.
  • Major Grandmaster 3: You are able to sabotage enemy tactivators, in which when an enemy pulls them will trigger a large explosion, dealing massive damage and launching enemies away before being set into a short cooldown.
• Legendary: You become able to convert enemy siege to allied siege. Interacting with allied siege engines grant a double decay timer (2 hour) and sabotages it to explode whenever it is destroyed dealing heavy area damage to nearby enemies. (Unlock prerequisite: 25,000 kills while training, 50 legendary spikes, all previous traits unlocked)

Calvary

Skimmer Mounts, Naval combat

• Minor Adept: Underwater abilities recharge faster, move faster in or underwater.
  • Major Adept 1: You are able to build and man siege underwater.
  • Major Adept 2: Going in water removes the burning condition, you become immune to burning while in water.
  • Major Adept 3: Ghostly piranhas surround you while underwater, dealing damage to nearby enemies.
• Minor Master: Unlocks the skimmer mount, which moves at a slightly slower speed than the PvE variant. Can only mount outside of combat, can only move a certain distance before dismounting (moving will use up endurance, will dismount when endurance goes to 0) and going on cooldown. CC will knock you off the mount.
  • Major Master 1: Unlock Skimmer mount ability 1: Fire a long range arcing projectiles that chills enemies
  • Major Master 2: Unlock Skimmer mount ability 1: Fire long range arcing projectiles that deal area damage
  • Major Master 3: Unlock skimmer mount ability 1: Rapidly fire short range projectiles in a spread that chills enemies
• Minor Grandmaster: Skimmers are able to move indefinitely on water/lava without using endurance.
  • Major Grandmaster 1: Unlock skimmer ability 2: Dismount ability: Barrel Roll (Same as PVE)
  • Major Grandmaster 2: Unlock skimmer ability 2: Dismount ability: Barrel Roll (instead of healing, knocks back enemies)
  • Major Grandmaster 3: Unlock skimmer ability 2: Dismount ability: Barrel Roll (instead of healing, inflicts chill)
• Legendary: You become able to glide in the air. You become able to ferry up to 10 players on your skimmer mount. (Unlock prerequisite: 25,000 kills while training, 50 legendary spikes, all previous traits unlocked)

=) nice idea. having all masteries kind of beats the point of being a master at something hehe

Your unlock prereqs..lols. realm avenger? So people who gamed the system or omni blobbed to a title should have access but not others who contribute more to the server?

The last thing we need is yet more power creep.

@Victory.2879 said:Your unlock prereqs..lols. realm avenger? So people who gamed the system or omni blobbed to a title should have access but not others who contribute more to the server?

The last thing we need is yet more power creep.

Subject of discussion, it can be modified.

Okay. So here we go. The following is my opinion/preferences if I don't otherwise indicate it.

I would prefer WvW to be an inclusive mode as possible. To that end...

My first issue is that it was a "progression system" in the traditional since of leveling up. Personally (as you somewhat indicated) is to remove "progression" and default the current WvW mastery's so that there is a level playing field. Currently, Veterans gain outright benefits for merely existing longer even though they should already have more experience anyway. I am fine if Veterans have easier access to cosmetic things (like rank requirements for prestigious armor). However, your suggestion indicates progression requirements for things that affect the actual game play (requiring kills or random drops). This is power creep for grinding to me, that I'm against. Luckily you're open to change as you said.

@TheBravery.9615 said:

@"Victory.2879" said:Your unlock prereqs..lols. realm avenger? So people who gamed the system or omni blobbed to a title should have access but not others who contribute more to the server?

The last thing we need is yet more power creep.

Second issue is that you're introducing completely new systems to the mode because of mastery. Your example being a mount. The main practical issue is that the maps weren't designed with mounts in mind (they even had to be adjusted just to make Gliding tolerable). This is extra effort that affects another system, and wasn't a clean transition even for gliding (RIP ogrewatch tower).

I also see a third issue being some of the above affecting non-objective game play (granting stealth). I would prefer that mastery be more about siege aspect of the game mode. That way we don't tamper with the combat balance.

This is not to say I'm against the idea of "roles" for WvW. Currently the thematic roles are "Invader" and "Defender" as already indicated by enemy nameplates depending on the map. That sounds like a logical place to start. If anything I'd prefer temporary progression week to week whereby stages unlock each day opening up to new strategies tomorrow. This is in an effort to incentivize playing more WvW across the week instead of stopping on Wednesday.

some mastery for traps?5s/10s longer siege disabler5 extra supply removed from the supply traplonger aoe for the stealth traps

maybe also add a few other traps that are gimmiks?

How about designing a couple of trait lines of which only one can be picked up and leveled? I don't except anything as big as OP suggested, but this would be a good base for similar system.

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Hey folks! Just to set some expectations here. Any complete overhaul of the system is probably out of scope for the foreseeable future. However, I'm not saying never as priorities change somewhat quickly sometimes.

I do encourage you to keep up the discussion though, as talking about pie in the sky changes can often lead to ideas on how to tweak the current system in a favorable way.

You're working at 6:00 am already? That's impressive.

:open_mouth:

OP your ideas are very very unrefined. I appreciate the effort but there's certain "upgrades" which make no sense at all.

Minor Master: Gain all effects of siege golem mastery. Alpha/guild golems now use omega golem abilities.

I'll use this as example. This trait is a straight downgrade. Alphas and guild golems are STRICTLY STRONGER than omegas because omegas are countered by any reflects; unlike alphas and guild golems.

Overall your entire change adds a lot of "flavor" which further buffs defending objectives without providing any meaningful ways to flip them. I do not see how your proposed changes make sense, or improve gameplay.

We need another mastery in "supply master" giving supply for players you stomp / kill. Killing players with supply or players inside objectives which have supply should allow you to steal a small portion of their supply (2-5).

JUST COPY DAOC's rank abilities

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Hey folks! Just to set some expectations here. Any complete overhaul of the system is probably out of scope for the foreseeable future. However, I'm not saying never as priorities change somewhat quickly sometimes.

I do encourage you to keep up the discussion though, as talking about pie in the sky changes can often lead to ideas on how to tweak the current system in a favorable way.

Raise them right, and they'll become a better Mist Warrior than yourself. Toodlez!

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Hey folks! Just to set some expectations here. Any complete overhaul of the system is probably out of scope for the foreseeable future. However, I'm not saying never as priorities change somewhat quickly sometimes.

I do encourage you to keep up the discussion though, as talking about pie in the sky changes can often lead to ideas on how to tweak the current system in a favorable way.

Eventually, the wvw mastery system warrants this sort of change as opposed to a completely linear upgrading system. The current system is not very beginner friendly and doesn't offer much in the ways to customize your wvw experience.

Perhaps start with small steps, add new abilities at first, but redesign it over time.

Since some People have thousands of unused Points there should be some hard upscaling abilities. for example:

Supply capacity:atm you spend total 145 Points to have +5 supplies.now add new lvls of that mastery for +6, +7 until +10with 300 Points for lvl 6.another 450 Points for +7another 600 Points for +8another 800 Points for +9finally again 1000 Points for +10 (so you can take max 30 supplies with guildbuffs)

so you spend additional 3150 Points to get +10 sups

Repair- and Buildmaster:current maximum is spending 10 supplies at once.add a 5th lvl to that masteries to spend ALL your supplies directly to the wall or siegeprint.

cost 300 Points each.

also add new masteries like trap mastery:

lvl 1: reduce supplycost of traps from 10 to 5 (cost 20 points)lvl 2: reduce casttime of traps to 0 (cost 50)lvl 3: you can place 2 (atm its 1) of each trap per map (cost 100)

They already went and dropped the required amount of mastery points for everything to make it easier for entry level players, now we want to add more to the system?

Having specialization seems interesting, don't agree with all that's presented, the commander one looks like it would be broken and would encourage just everyone to run a tag. Would prefer if specialization was unlocked after getting all masteries completed, and had nothing to do with stat or movement boosting, because they would be broken and would be right back to where we were with guard stacks which was taken out.

Zero.3871 has a good list there.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/504312#Comment_504312

I pitched a less "complicated" idea than TheBravery.9615 a few months back (see link) and have thrown the hat into the ring for the Action Key a few times.Do not use a trait system, add an action key ability (which can include stuff in the trait line suggestion). Activating the action key could e.g. affect the use of traps (less supply cost to drop, bigger AoE etc.). Having one Action Key available at a spawn NPC (or wherever you have Invulnerability from a location), can prevent power creeps (the single skill can be balanced) and will make you be able to change your role on the map every time you WP.

Can I just convert the extra points into skirmish tickets or something??

I'm sure you can add more mastery lines but you'll never be able to cover the 8000-9000 points that are left over. Need to make it some sort of currency to buy ascended stuff i guess? SHouldn't be capped at 10k but i don't think you guys can change that without changing the current system too much? Wvw needs more profit and this could boost it up a bit

@"hunkamania.7561" said:I'm sure you can add more mastery lines but you'll never be able to cover the 8000-9000 points that are left over. Need to make it some sort of currency to buy ascended stuff i guess? SHouldn't be capped at 10k but i don't think you guys can change that without changing the current system too much? Wvw needs more profit and this could boost it up a bit

Trait lines that decrease prices would be straightforward to implement, without destroying the actual points. The map Dry Top has a system in place that could be used as the framework for such a change.

The fractal Mist Attunement addition added a few months ago can be used as a model. There are some parallels in terms of costs.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Account_Augmentation

Fractal Matrices --> Memories of BattleFractal Relics --> Badges of HonorPristine Fractal Relics --> Testimonies of Heroics

Rewards can follow a similar pattern, wxp instead of xp, karma, perhaps pips and permanent account reward track gain instead of agony resistance.

Mastery points unlock the ability to acquire these augmentations, maybe 500 points each, 5 levels each costing 100 points. So then it becomes:

5 tiers of wxp gain, +5% exp per tier (25% max)5 tiers of karma gain, +5% karma per tier (25% max)5 tiers of reward track gain, +5% per tier (25% max)5 tiers of cost reduction, -5% prices at siege and skirmish vendors per tier (-25% max)5 tiers of pip gain, which would be the super duper expensive thing like Mist Attunement line is.

As long as there is some rework to how the points work. I did not bother touching siege for the longest time because I didn't have the points to get the essential abilities (cata dome, shield gens, golems and treb masteries to name a few) which sounds awful to me now

It felt pretty bad to think I'm just way less effective than some other players because I didn't pop boosters and ktrain for a while before I got into WvW. A player is essentially trolling on a shield gen if they don't have the arrow cart mastery point. A lot of the mastery points are flat out required for general play such AoE looting, endless gliding, and guard damage. Until you're rank 400+ you don't feel like you have any flexibility in where you can put points and then after that you basically just pick between all the mediocre and situational stuff.

As a new player coming to WvW that felt really bad. The only light at the end of the tunnel is that eventually you'll hit 1k and get everything. That's pretty poop because then progression stops completely and it's a useless system.

I know a lot of vets have high WvW ranks and never experienced this, but I've only been playing WvW actively since January and it was hella annoying. I'm finally over the 500 rank hump and it's just now that I feel like I can get in everything and be useful.

The points don't feel like a reward to me, they feel like an artificial gate.

Node mastery would be fun. More things from the nods buff when and after you node.

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Hey folks! Just to set some expectations here. Any complete overhaul of the system is probably out of scope for the foreseeable future. However, I'm not saying never as priorities change somewhat quickly sometimes.

I do encourage you to keep up the discussion though, as talking about pie in the sky changes can often lead to ideas on how to tweak the current system in a favorable way.

Curious question-

What would you consider 'within the scope for foreseeable future'? (e.g. what were you expecting?)

• Add more mastery abilities to spend mastery points on? - not a good idea in grand scheme of things - will further distance veteran players away from novice players as @Evolute.6239 pointed out.
• Cap mastery points after all abilities are earned? - possibly the most conservative option on the table, but limits any potential for future development on wvw abilities.
• Earn currency for excess ability points earned? - A fair solution and a quick fix, but also limits any potential for future development on wvw abilities.

Auto salvage by settable item rarity threshold. i.e. you loot something below the threshold it automatically gets salvaged. It'd make loot wars way more fun if you didn't perpetually have 20+ unique worthless pieces of gear crowding your inventory.

Do it here or at least make it a feature of the coin fed salvagers.

I'd love to be able to salvage runes also. As far as extra masteries go, I would LOVE some damage reduction type stuff, like 5% less damage from conditions or something. If anything, I'd like to trade in all the extra points I get for something like wvw kegs or tickets or something useful