New guardian - PVE OW Core - Comments?

Just looking for some comment/critique of the build below.

I've been a necro since GW2 started; I couldn't get into anything else. I run a core power necro w/no minions and enjoy it a lot. But I kept wanting to branch out, and now I've finally committed to a Guardian I boosted to 80. I've been running around with her for a week or so, and pretty happy so far.

I'm 1) a casual, and 2) only really interested in OW PVE, and 3) I have no interest in glass cannon meta builds. As it is, I'm quite surprised how a 'heavy armor' class like Guardian is so squishy compared to my cloth necro. What I'm running now has been working well, with scepter/shield as my main set, although I still haven't settled on hammer vs greatsword vs mace/x for the other set. Spirit weapons seem quite useful, and signets have been my friend on my power necro.

So, I'm wondering if the more seasoned guardians can offer some wisdom as to the build I've been running, given what I've said:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAreSl0AhqgYRQwRIQTEHyDl9DahToGBZZAkPxWMGB-jBCBABS8EAew83RK/ie/BAOFA6o+TK6DmQJIpAGVZE-e

My first character was a guardian, and it's my most played character still...And i'm going to be honest, you're wrong in that assumption of yours about "glass build". You'll take way less damage and die much less as a High dps, because you basically kill everything in a second, so you don't really take damage. Also Guardian can't ever really be a glass cannon, you have so much survivability with utility and the virtues that you'll be hard-pressed to die in open world.

For a core guardian, i'd recomend this DPS build:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNArfRl0AhChYVQwVIQQEHxDltEy3INniv4MWDgGoeB-jxRBQBWS9nHcKAMjSwrs/o0TkKDwj+AA8EAIFwoKjA-e

That's my recommendation, you can take it into Fractals (even T4 and CM) and Raids, and be up to meta standards.If you wanna be a bit more tanky, use focus instead of torch, you can also play around with some of the utilities and the elite skill.. Keep the bane signet and the spirit sword though.

The way to get the most damage out of that is to always start with a symbol on, or something else that gives you Retaliation. With that and Fury you'll have straight up 100% crit rate.Also, try to keep the enemies burning and Aegis up for max damage. That build can increase your damage by more than 40% with the right conditions. It's still quite hard to kill, the Healing Signet pops for half your health, and you will have a pretty decent aegis up-time with F3.Trust me, you don't need to build survivability, everything will melt before they get a chance to damage you.

There's a reason people run Meta builds. It's because they work. Like Kane basically said, with more damage your TTK(time-to-kill) goes down which means getting hit less times.

Which one sounds better? Getting hit once for 25% your HP but you kill them in 4 seconds, or getting hit twice for 25% your HP but killing the mob in 8 seconds? If you enjoy a certain playstyle, this is kinda irrelevant though. Just some food for thought.

Op, I do not see an issue with the build if you like it. I would recommend though going either Valkyrie or berserker and if you are struggling with survivability, you can use meditation line instead of zeal.

Utilities, There is not much reason to use hammer of wisdom. If you are going for protection uptime, use the reg+protection shout. If you are going for damage, use save yourselves. For sustainability you can use smite. For healing, do not use signet of resolve. Use litney of wraith. It is the strongest heal in PvE by a huge margin.

As for the traits, if you are using hammer and virtues line, definitely take glacial heart trait. I would recommend using radiance line bottom traits for 100% retaliation uptime. It adds 10% damage, 250 ferocity and 50% critic chance.

I had the same thought when switching between Necro and Guard. Guardians have the lowest base health pool vs other heavy armor classes and, iirc, they have a lower base health pool than Necro. And IMO, the difference in amor rating isn't so great that it makes a significant difference - especially if you're dealing with condition heavy fights.

If you're looking to keep sustainability, then I'd recommend switching your trinkets to Valk because the amount of toughness you're getting probably isn't helping all that much. So, you get more helpful damage output. Greatsword will give you better damage and is very effective on large hitboxes when you're standing inside of them. Hammer is one that I fence sit on - it's slow, but it's CC is nice along with it's near permanent protection. Signet of Courage - the passive probably won't out heal most of the damage you receive and the active, while nice, is probably more situationally useful. Renewed focus might be a better choice since it will make you invul and recharge all your virtues, allowing you to use their actives more often.

Spirit hammer is okay if you need more CC, but you might get more general use out of a stun break/condi clear such as the shouts or consecrations.

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

For a core guardian, i'd recomend this DPS build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNArfRl0AhChYVQwVIQQEHxDltEy3INniv4MWDgGoeB-jxRBQBWS9nHcKAMjSwrs/o0TkKDwj+AA8EAIFwoKjA-e

1. In the Virtues Tree I use Indomitable Courage over Permeating Wrath as an additional stun break + stability (which also is applied to allies)
2. For Utility Skills, while I like Sword of Justice, I'll normally run with Hammer of Wisdom which is an excellent AoE CC skill.

I'll also tend to run Retreat in group content for the speed buff / aegis, and I when doing OW I'll sometimes run Signet of Courage as I tend to not bother blowing DPS cooldown abilities vs. OW trash mobs.

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:

For a core guardian, i'd recomend this DPS build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNArfRl0AhChYVQwVIQQEHxDltEy3INniv4MWDgGoeB-jxRBQBWS9nHcKAMjSwrs/o0TkKDwj+AA8EAIFwoKjA-e

1. In the Virtues Tree I use Indomitable Courage over Permeating Wrath as an additional stun break + stability (which also is applied to allies)
2. For Utility Skills, while I like Sword of Justice, I'll normally run with Hammer of Wisdom which is an excellent AoE CC skill.

Indomitable Courage is a good choice actually, i've been hesitating between the two, just been using Permeating Wrath for the more constant burn damage which can proc Fiery Wrath. But Indomitable Courage is also not only a good "supporty" choice, but also since it increases the frequency of Aegis procs, it will also increase the uptime of Unscathed Contender (which has a higher % damage bonus than Fiery Wrath).

Thanks for all the comments. It makes me realize the variety and extent of synergies of skills/traits to play around with....I need to study these more. But that is exactly what I find interesting about a class - the potential for variety and tradeoffs!

@otto.5684 said:As for the traits, if you are using hammer and virtues line, definitely take glacial heart trait. I would recommend using radiance line bottom traits for 100% retaliation uptime. It adds 10% damage, 250 ferocity and 50% critic chance.

I don't see how the bottom traits in Radiance would give me 100% retal. uptime. Did you mean 100% crit chance?

@TheAgedGnome.7520 said:Thanks for all the comments. It makes me realize the variety and extent of synergies of skills/traits to play around with....I need to study these more. But that is exactly what I find interesting about a class - the potential for variety and tradeoffs!

@otto.5684 said:As for the traits, if you are using hammer and virtues line, definitely take glacial heart trait.

I would recommend using radiance line bottom traits for 100% retaliation uptime. It adds 10% damage, 250 ferocity and 50% critic chance.

I wrote it incorrectly. You want to have the bottom traits for radiance and maintain close to 100% retaliation uptime, sepretly. Beside the damage upgrade, you only need 20% precision to maintain 100% critic chance. This way you can switch multiple pieces of gear to Valkyrie without losing any damage.

In owpve I use DH, zeal and radiance with GS. With save yourselves shout, I can get close to 100% retaliation uptime.

@"TheAgedGnome.7520" said:Just looking for some comment/critique of the build below.

I'm 1) a casual, and 2) only really interested in OW PVE, and 3) I have no interest in glass cannon meta builds. As it is, I'm quite surprised how a 'heavy armor' class like Guardian is so squishy compared to my cloth necro. What I'm running now has been working well, with scepter/shield as my main set, although I still haven't settled on hammer vs greatsword vs mace/x for the other set. Spirit weapons seem quite useful, and signets have been my friend on my power necro.

So, I'm wondering if the more seasoned guardians can offer some wisdom as to the build I've been running, given what I've said:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAreSl0AhqgYRQwRIQTEHyDl9DahToGBZZAkPxWMGB-jBCBABS8EAew83RK/ie/BAOFA6o+TK6DmQJIpAGVZE-e

The explanation for this is pretty simple. Necro gets its sustain through pure stat tanking, which includes a second health bar via shroud. Guardian gets its sustain from easy access to extremely powerful boons. While the current meta is designed to destroy boons, prior to that, Boon stacking increases a character's overall performance by 30% across the board, and doubles it if you have Quickness/Alacrity (mostly Raids via Chrono). Between Aegis, skills with block, protection, regeneration, blinds, and ample condition cleansing, Guardians are extremely hard to put down by normal means. But it also requires decent understanding of timing, and knowing when to place what defenses up to mitigate an incoming attack. However, even if you make a mistake, the Guardian has a huge amount of recovery options to restore your health or purge conditions mid-fight.

The way its skills and traits are split up, and are both synergistic and additive at the same time, the Guardian has a wide variety of effective builds that don't require it to abandon offensive potential. For instance, even if you give up damage, you still have access to strong CC skills to suppress an enemy. Or you can go with an offensive weapon set, with a sustain utility set, and offer passive group support via traits. You'd have to go out of your way to ignore all your support and defense options to not have either.

Since you're open world, you have a few options. And just to point out, even though you said you don't like glass cannon builds, you ended up taking every glass cannon trait Core Guard has on tap, and then botched it up with all defensive gear set. To fix this, and get your power damage into reasonably threatening range, you can change to Medi Guard build, or try to rely on Valk's Radiance combo.

Medi Guard is a basic Zerks build that gets personal sustain through the Valor Trait line. This is an excellent synergy for a straight forward power build, using Great Sword and Sw/x with Mediation utilities. Monk's Focus GM trait makes all your Meditation skills heal for 2k HP on activation, and grants AOE fury. 2 of the Meditation skills clear conditions, the elite skill is an invulnerability, and the Smiters Boon trait gives you extra condition clear with the Heal skill. The build looks glassy, but the only real threat to it is heavy AOE fields. You can make adjustments for this by swapping in 2 Soldiers Earrings to pad your HP, giving you enough time to move out. Anything stronger then that, and you should be using your defense to mitigate it (they're really strong, so take advantage of them). As a Core guard you take Zeal, Radiance and Valor. But I would recommend taking Dragonhunter over Radiance, since the Retooled Virtues are actually worth using without the Virtue trait line, and the Purification and Procession of Blades traps are very strong with fairly low cool downs.Core Medi:Zeal: 2-2-3Rad: 1-2-3Val: 2-2-2 (or 2-1-2 if using Shield)http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAR8elsAhqhYhQwbIwPEHxDVNAag69uvDROYDhXISB-jhCBABMcEAyT3QAPAgKV/BgLAwZKBLa/hKOIAapEDLlHkCQUlRA-eNote: These trait lines have a lot of wiggle room for weapons, so don't be afraid to change them if they seem more useful. Also the Gear set is "on the cheap", so you can put in better runes or sigils if you want.

Variant where you drop burning related bonuses for better Crit chance.http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAR8elsAhqhYhQwbIwPEH3Dl9Ba3CtWABQ6ef3boFA-jhSBABA8AAMTJ4VKPIa/BKV/hiDCwCXAgKOCAZpEDPdDkCQUlRA-e

The DH version is pretty similar. Longbow is not objectively better in any given category other then being 1200 range and having extra hard CCs while kiting.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQJARTn8cCVDhddCeDBkdil4BTe/1/SgX7rYQOoKA0AqXA-jhSBABUcEAoU9Hi2f4hDBgZKBvS5Be6CySJG7XAAAeAAkCQUlRA-e

Now if you want to get into some really crazy ass builds, Firebrand has ton to offer if you think outside the box.

For Openworld I run Cele Firebrand. FB makes good use of all stats, so the mixture makes for a strong hybrid support that power scales rapidly with both allies and enemies around it. In Group events (especially ones with lots of trash mobs), this things turns into a Monster of unstoppable sustain and fiery death.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAn+fn8ABFBjVCBOCDkCjlACbPieR7oWBgHwbKbB9gmQA-jBiAQBmS9HIpEEAPAgVeCAAoeh/t/AaU+FtDCAA-e

You can fill in the infusion slots to whatever bent you want... more damage or support (or none). You can even take more concentration infusions if you want more quickness uptime..... though you'll never get 100% uptime on your own, nor is really needed for this build. The only few things you have to be actively aware of are:

1. Quickness boosts your condi damage and healing power.... so firing the quickness mantra if your just spamming Justice and Resolve tomes Chap 1 skills will boost output by a significant amount. As you get more familiar with how the tomes, mantras and Justice's passive works, you can time the quickness mantra to boost burning damage when stacks are peaked (with Ashes of the Just, 10k burn ticks are not uncommon).
2. Justice's passive triggers burning on every 3rd "hit" with Permeating Wrath. Since the axe auto hits twice and cleaves 3 targets, that translates to 6 stack of burning per auto chain on a cluster of enemies. And of course the Axe symbol contributes to this, as does all the Justice Tome skills since they register hits.
3. Justice's passive still works even if if the Tome is on Cool down, so don't be afraid to use it.
4. Radiance resets Justice on kill. So as long as theres enough things that die during the fight, you can basically chain spam Justice tome for "all the burning".
5. You're only major weaknesses are trying to solo a prolonged Champ fights, with no minions to reset justice off of., or things immune to burning. You also don't have much in the way of hard CCs, so you don't have the ability to solo a break bar. But having allies can change this situation, since you can use the defensive tomes/skills to cover all the sustain; letting the others focus on unloading damage, and then unload justice in the last 20% or so to help quickly finish it off.

If you don't like the support aspect, and just want raw damage...... well.... just look at this thing.......http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAseRnkIC97gFBDuCBEEhl4BzqEkviU7v0baPtKA0AqXA-jxBGQBKR5H62foKKBBwpAYRq/AwnAgd0DAA-e

25 Might, Quickness, Protection, Retaliation, Stability, 3k Pwr, 4k Armor, 74% Crit chance, 230% Crit damage, 50% boon duration, justice tome hitting for 3k in "power damage", and your heal skill heals when you deal damage. Its a meme build... but its a cleverly built one. And apparently it works with Dragon Hunter too, if you use traps for boon generation. Honestly, I might try this later if I end up choosing heavy for a legendary armor set.

@"starlinvf.1358" said:-snip-

Thanks for the ideas.

I never thought of it in these terms: "And just to point out, even though you said you don't like glass cannon builds, you ended up taking every glass cannon trait Core Guard has on tap, and then botched it up with all defensive gear set. "

I'm curious about Firebrand, but still accumulating HP for training the spec.

And I did see the Balthazar build in another thread, and was very intrigued. As a longtime necro, its still hard to wrap my brain around all those boons. :)