Battle of Eternity — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Battle of Eternity

cyndelaq.7148cyndelaq.7148 Member ✭✭
edited July 10, 2018 in WvW

As primarily a PvE player, I would never set foot in WvW if not for the Gift of Battle...

In its current state, WvW is not fun to me by any means. Roaming can be difficult to do solo and seldom is fun in a small group, zerging is never fun to me because, eventually, another zerg will come to defend its territory, and the content for WvW is small.

Buffs:

Currently, without full buffs to reward track progress it takes approximately 8hr 32m 24s to complete a full track at T6 participation; with full buffs you get a 100% increase to reward track progress which literally halves the amount of time needed to complete said track (4hr 16m 12s).

Calculations Without Buffs:
- T6 participation = +195 RTP points every 5 minutes
- Each track requires 20k points to complete
- 20k RTP ÷ 195 = 102.56 (amount of times you need to earn 195 RTP points)
- 102.56 x 5 minutes = 512.8 minutes
- 512.8m ÷ 60m/hr = 8.54hrs
- 60m/hr x 0.54m = 32.4m
- 60s/m x 0.4m = 24s
- Total time to complete a single reward track (without buffs) = 8hrs 32m 24s

Calculations With Buffs:
- T6 participation = +195 RTP every 5 minutes + 100% RTP = +390 RTP points every 5 minutes
- Each track requires 20k points to complete
- 20k RTP ÷ 390 = 51.28 (amount of times you need to earn 390 RTP points)
- 51.28 x 5 minutes = 256.4 minutes
- 256.4m ÷ 60m/hr = 4.27hrs
- 60m/hr x 0.27m = 16.2m
- 60s/m x 0.2m = 12s
- Total time to complete a single reward track (with buffs) = 4hrs 16m 12s

That is still a ridiculously long time to spend doing something you hate doing. Now obviously if you spread that out over 8 days you'd only have to spend approximately 35m in WvW each day with full track buffs.

By, "full buffs", I mean the following: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/WvW_Reward_Track#Reward_track_modifiers

  • Guild Enhancement (+10%)
  • Experience Booster (+50%)
  • Black Lion Booster (+25%)
  • Celebration Booster (+10%)
  • WvW Reward Track Enrichment (+5%)
  • Total = 100%

NOTE: Please note that not all of the above buffs are readily available making it difficult to maintain the 100% increase and the above percentage does not include time limited buffs such as the, "Call to War", (+25%)

Dailies:

Now if you take dailies into consideration you're only having to spend approximately 4.23 days doing WvW 35m per day to obtain a gift of battle because each completed daily rewards you with 2 Potions of WvW Rewards which gives you 250 reward track progress points per potion for a total of 4,730 points per day (at T6 participation and full buffs).

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Potion_of_WvW_Rewards

If the gift of battle is all you have left to finish whichever legendary you're working on 4 days is a lot of extra time to wait and over 4 continuous hours in WvW (if you hate it like I do) is like torture. But I digress. The purpose of this thread is to open discussion about how WvW could be changed to make it more enjoyable for non-WvW fans while maintaining whatever it is that WvW fans continue to enjoy.

World Restructuring:

While I am aware that Arena Net is working on the World Restructuring update for WvW, if my understanding is correct that isn't going to solve my concerns with the game mode. I thoroughly feel as though a rather large change is needed.

World Restructuring is a new system that when added into the game will make matchmaking for the game mode smoother and overall better. This I believe to be true but the problem that I have with this change is that in no way does it change the way the game mode plays.

It doesn't change: war score, reward tracks, reward track progress, etc... Which isn't necessarily a bad thing but it basically means that the same concern I have now will not go away when this update is implemented.

The Battle of Eternity!

Now, I do know that the possibility of changing rewards is on the table for Arena Net but won't be considered well into the future. Until then all we can do is talk so what I propose is this: The Battle of Eternity. The BoE would be the same multi-headed, WvW onslaught that it currently is minus the outlying borderlands, focusing exclusively on EBG warfare.

In my idea, each skirmish would last 2hrs like they currently do. Worlds would start each skirmish with a home base (Garrison) and their home keep already captured. The garrison should always be under ally control so that a safe spawn is always maintained meaning that enemy worlds can't capture it.

Additionally, 2 towers and 2 camps would reside in each worlds territory but would have to be captured to begin generating points for each team. Similar to the current iteration of WvW, structures (objectives) would generate 1 point per second to the controlling team for a total of 5 points per second per team.

To make it possible for teams to defeat one another in the skirmish: camps, towers, and keeps are all up for grabs including the Castle located in the center of the arena: Stonemist Castle. SMC as it's called would generate an additional 5 points per second to the controlling team for a total of 10 points per second. This would make SMC a high-valued target. (Garrisons would not generate points)

Neutral Objectives:

Now, to break the monotony I suggest that additional, neutral objectives are placed around the map that aid the controlling team in their fight to capture and hold not just their own base and structures but SMC as well.

One such objective could be called: Mercenary Camps. MCs would function similarly to how they do in MOBAs such as League of Legends and Heroes of the Storm in the sense that you would acquire their aid by defeating them in combat and then capturing their camp.

MCs wouldn't generate any additional points for the controlling team, but would provide such things as additional manpower when assaulting enemy structures. For example, one such MC could be a small grove of Oakhearts that, when captured, would assault neighboring, enemy towers. Another MC could be a giant war machine that could be controlled by a single player to assault whichever objective they choose.

Another idea could be dynamic events. A dynamic event where a group of centaurs begin assaulting your or your enemies base for no reason other then pure, unadulterated bloodshed could happen every 15 minutes and, as the skirmish progresses, would get stronger and stronger each time, starting out as mere veterans all the way up to intimidating legendaries.

These events would also not generate points when completed nor would they subtract points if failed but they would leave your base vulnerable if not attended to, presenting opportunities for opponents to strike where there wasn't one before. However, loot such as T6 materials or maybe even a rare chance for, “Battle Shards”, to drop could be possible.

Battle Shards:

Battle Shards could be legendary crafting materials that, when 50 are combined, would create a full Gift of Battle. I'm not saying that the GoB track should be discontinued I'm merely saying that this could be an alternative way of obtaining it.

Neutral Objective Rating System and Points:

One thing I do think that MCs and DEs could generate is additional reward track progress instead of just exp and karma. (These points would not be affected by reward track buffs) To accommodate this, MCs and DEs could be rated as: veteran, elite, champion, and legendary.

Veteran events and camps could award 25 RTPs, elite events and camps could reward 50 RTPs, champion events and camps could reward 75 RTPs, and legendary events and camps could reward 100 RTPs for a total, possible addition of 500 Reward Track Points per hour.

The same 195 RTPs every 5 minutes at T6 participation would remain the same, as well as the current daily rewards, making it possible to earn 5,180 reward track points per hour (without buffs). The possibilities for MCs and DEs are endless so I'd love to read everyone's ideas on: what they could be, what loot they could drop, where and how they would spawn, and so on...

Personally, I feel as though legendary weapons should require a legendary journey to be obtained and in its current state WvW doesn't feel very legendary, just annoying. I don't know what, if any, plans Arena Net has regarding the GoB in coming patches but personally I hate being forced to do something I simply don't enjoy doing.

If you got to this point, thank you for reading. Take care.

TL;DR: I feel as though the outlying bordlerlands are nothing more then a distraction and that the content currently in the game is minimal. (For WvW)

<1

Comments

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    yeah this all sounds like you would like to get your GoB in EotM..as far as i know you actually can! just a little slower cause of no pips..

    read this, become a better player now.

  • Guild Enhancement (+10%) -readily available
    Experience Booster (+50%) -laurel booster/candy corn gobbler
    Black Lion Booster (+25%) -wvw event
    Celebration Booster (+10%) -birthday booster
    WvW Reward Track Enrichment (+5%) -cheap enrichment
    Total = 100%
    NOTE: Please note that not all of the above buffs are readily available making it difficult to maintain the 100% increase and the above percentage does not include time limited buffs such as the, "Call to War", (+25%)

    how are they not readily available? the only one thats pretty hard to get is the BL booster, but if you time it with wvw events its not necessary. also pip reward tracks grant extra reward track progression.

    seriously theres a lot of stuff some wvw players dont get (a LOT of skins, gold, free 32 slot bag, achievement rewards, to name some) because they hate doing pve. but you dont see them making threads about it...

    please release me, let me go

  • Hoon.1524Hoon.1524 Member ✭✭

    Yo forgot to add...
    tl:dr please change the game mode and reward system cause I don't like it and don't want to invest my pve farming time for this stupid game mode cause it's not fun for me.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hoon.1524 said:
    Yo forgot to add...
    tl:dr please change the game mode and reward system cause I don't like it and don't want to invest my pve farming time for this stupid game mode cause it's not fun for me.

    maybe if it would net more gold then the pve grinds, that would change..

    read this, become a better player now.

  • Hoon.1524Hoon.1524 Member ✭✭

    1 shotting plebs like a aluminium cans and reaping them like wheat is all the reward I need... after 5 years of playing, gold is over rated to me

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There are Mercenary Camps in Eternal Battlegrounds. I'm not sure what you're trying to add here...

  • @dolcolax.1268 said:
    Guild Enhancement (+10%) -readily available
    Experience Booster (+50%) -laurel booster/candy corn gobbler
    Black Lion Booster (+25%) -wvw event
    Celebration Booster (+10%) -birthday booster
    WvW Reward Track Enrichment (+5%) -cheap enrichment
    Total = 100%
    NOTE: Please note that not all of the above buffs are readily available making it difficult to maintain the 100% increase and the above percentage does not include time limited buffs such as the, "Call to War", (+25%)

    how are they not readily available? the only one thats pretty hard to get is the BL booster, but if you time it with wvw events its not necessary. also pip reward tracks grant extra reward track progression.

    seriously theres a lot of stuff some wvw players dont get (a LOT of skins, gold, free 32 slot bag, achievement rewards, to name some) because they hate doing pve. but you dont see them making threads about it...

    • If you'll note, I said that, "not all", of them are readily available. The guild buff is readily available for sure.
    • The laurel booster is dependant on a weekly reward, only lasts for 30m compared to the exp booster which lasts for 2 hours meaning for every 1 exp booster you'd need 4 laurel boosters.
    • The candy corn gobbler boost is random, you need the candy corn in inventory, and the boost lasts only 7-10m. I will say that it can be extended and you can get more then one application per use (also random) but it's all down to RNG.
    • Events like the Call to Arms are limited time events that seldom happen.
    • Birthday boosters are obtainable only once per year per character. Yes, they do last 24hrs but if you're only farming for 35m/day, it's a bit of a waste imo. If you have 70 characters, or whatever the cap is, then you'll have no issues with this but I don't.

    Lastly, I'd like to make this clear not just to you but everyone else that reads this comment. I didn't make this thread to bash WvWers or WvW itself, I was simply voicing my concerns about the game mode. I'm not JUST a PvE player. Primarily, yes, but I do all sorts of things in this game: open world PvE, structured PvP, raid, dungeons from time-to-time, and even WvW when I'm forced to for the GoB.

    I'm sure WvW players have many concerns about PvE and are very welcome to voice their concerns with whatever aspects of PvE they may have (hopefully not in this thread). This is my opinion on WvW, you don't have to agree with it but the point of this thread is to discuss WvW and how it could be improved.

  • @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Funny, how pvers have no issue doing 303 renowned hearts (i bet THAT is interesting, eh), or 600+ POI, or 188+ hero points or HoT maps that require absurdly boring metas (DS, for example) but the gift of battle is a hindrance, which is perfectly doable by mostly afking...
    Funny, indeed.

    I actually hate doing that as well and only do it when I need to.

  • @Chaba.5410 said:
    There are Mercenary Camps in Eternal Battlegrounds. I'm not sure what you're trying to add here...

    Perhaps I overlooked something but what I'm trying to add here is interesting and fun gameplay to an otherwise boring game mode.

  • Gemnaid.4219Gemnaid.4219 Member ✭✭✭

    Can you calculate how long it takes to do world completion for me?

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gemnaid.4219 said:
    Can you calculate how long it takes to do world completion for me?

    Also the endless side missions for HOPE as I just started that the other day. Having to do world boss/fractals and jumping puzzles- yay!

  • Etheri.5406Etheri.5406 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Funny, how pvers have no issue doing 303 renowned hearts (i bet THAT is interesting, eh), or 600+ POI, or 188+ hero points or HoT maps that require absurdly boring metas (DS, for example) but the gift of battle is a hindrance, which is perfectly doable by mostly afking...
    Funny, indeed.

    Don't promote afking in WvW. If you want rewards, play for them. If you want to afk, go OS.

    Dear OP, just pay WvW players gold so you can AFK in OS with boosters. I'm sure for say... 20g you won't have trouble finding WvWers that keep your participation at max. If you cannot, contact me. For 20g/ hour i'll gladly do it ;)

    I have EVERYTHING i need for several legendaries, except map completion. I'd quite like to see that removed, too . Legendaries were supposed to be legendary and require each gamemode. WvW's aspect has already been heavily reduced. I'm not a fan of having players that don't want to play WvW in WvW; but I also think that 5 hours isn't exactly unreasonable. And again, if 5 hours is too much effort; pay WvW players for it. You can share participation for a reason.

  • Zero.3871Zero.3871 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arctisavange.7261 said:
    Poor PVE player has to do a little bit of WvW just to get his gift of battle.
    Kind of a news flash to you but A LOT of WvW players were forced to do a TON of PVE for many years to get their runes and gold just to be able to gear up back when there was no reward track system in WvW and getting some specific runes needed the PVE route.
    That 8 hours of you WvWing is like a joke compared to what WvWrs had to go through to be able to play their game mode.

    this this this

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭

    Would make no sense to get a gift of battle without doing any kind of battle.
    Still very possible but so kitten slow.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Etheri.5406 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Funny, how pvers have no issue doing 303 renowned hearts (i bet THAT is interesting, eh), or 600+ POI, or 188+ hero points or HoT maps that require absurdly boring metas (DS, for example) but the gift of battle is a hindrance, which is perfectly doable by mostly afking...
    Funny, indeed.

    Don't promote afking in WvW. If you want rewards, play for them. If you want to afk, go OS.

    Dear OP, just pay WvW players gold so you can AFK in OS with boosters. I'm sure for say... 20g you won't have trouble finding WvWers that keep your participation at max. If you cannot, contact me. For 20g/ hour i'll gladly do it ;)

    I have EVERYTHING i need for several legendaries, except map completion. I'd quite like to see that removed, too . Legendaries were supposed to be legendary and require each gamemode. WvW's aspect has already been heavily reduced. I'm not a fan of having players that don't want to play WvW in WvW; but I also think that 5 hours isn't exactly unreasonable. And again, if 5 hours is too much effort; pay WvW players for it. You can share participation for a reason.

    Dont get me wrong, I dont encourage afking in wvw (i am a wvwer, myself). It was just said to show how much a pver can qq over GoB in a leggy, when LITERALLY the vast majority time and gold wise of crafting one (i have several gen1 and Gen2 myself) requires mindless pve gold farming, world map exploration, a helluva lot more grind. But wvw is the problem, yeah...

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So the main problem here is that you don't seem to enjoy any of the things that define wvw as a game mode.

  • @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Dont get me wrong, I dont encourage afking in wvw (i am a wvwer, myself). It was just said to show how much a pver can qq over GoB in a leggy, when LITERALLY the vast majority time and gold wise of crafting one (i have several gen1 and Gen2 myself) requires mindless pve gold farming, world map exploration, a helluva lot more grind. But wvw is the problem, yeah...

    I never said that there weren't issues on the PvE side of things. I personally hate having to do map completion: hearts are obnoxious, PoIs are plentiful, HPs can be tricky to get sometimes, etc...

    I also don't enjoy mindless gold farms but the reason why I'm more willing to do those over WvW is simply because with every champ you kill, with every boss you loot, and every hour you spend doing them you're ACTIVELY getting rewarded. But this isn't the place to talk about that aspect of making legendary weapons.

    With WvW you get rewarded in increments and the reward just doesn't feel worth the effort in MY opinion. Obviously my idea is rather grandiose and I'm sure there are easier solutions that would take much less time for Arena Net to implement such as adding another GoB to the track so instead of only one gift you get two maybe. I don't know.

    All I know is that I'd rather spend my time doing other aspects of the game because I simply don't enjoy the time I spend in WvW but because I want to make legendary weapons, I'm forced to do WvW. I don't think that's a good way to get your player base to experience a certain aspect of the game.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Dont get me wrong, I dont encourage afking in wvw (i am a wvwer, myself). It was just said to show how much a pver can qq over GoB in a leggy, when LITERALLY the vast majority time and gold wise of crafting one (i have several gen1 and Gen2 myself) requires mindless pve gold farming, world map exploration, a helluva lot more grind. But wvw is the problem, yeah...

    I never said that there weren't issues on the PvE side of things. I personally hate having to do map completion: hearts are obnoxious, PoIs are plentiful, HPs can be tricky to get sometimes, etc...

    I also don't enjoy mindless gold farms but the reason why I'm more willing to do those over WvW is simply because with every champ you kill, with every boss you loot, and every hour you spend doing them you're ACTIVELY getting rewarded. But this isn't the place to talk about that aspect of making legendary weapons.

    With WvW you get rewarded in increments and the reward just doesn't feel worth the effort in MY opinion. Obviously my idea is rather grandiose and I'm sure there are easier solutions that would take much less time for Arena Net to implement such as adding another GoB to the track so instead of only one gift you get two maybe. I don't know.

    All I know is that I'd rather spend my time doing other aspects of the game because I simply don't enjoy the time I spend in WvW but because I want to make legendary weapons, I'm forced to do WvW. I don't think that's a good way to get your player base to experience a certain aspect of the game.

    The more rank you have in wvw, the more pips you get. The more pips you get, the faster you finish Diamond chests over and over. The more you finish Diamond chest, the more bonus instant reward track progress stuff you get.
    Also, if legendary weapon crafting seems so tedious in every aspect for you, maybe dont do it. Legendary weps add nothing of actual value or even QoL to a player, anyway.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 10, 2018

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Gemnaid.4219 said:
    Can you calculate how long it takes to do world completion for me?

    Also the endless side missions for HOPE as I just started that the other day. Having to do world boss/fractals and jumping puzzles- yay!

    HOPE took me 4 days wich also did include some exp grind for masteries . and saying 4 days i mean like really morning till evening. cause you need specific events etc.

    soo have fun!
    (mostly use Quip over HOPE tho if i use a legendary skin)

    read this, become a better player now.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Gemnaid.4219 said:
    Can you calculate how long it takes to do world completion for me?

    Also the endless side missions for HOPE as I just started that the other day. Having to do world boss/fractals and jumping puzzles- yay!

    HOPE took me 4 days wich also did include some exp grind for masteries . and saying 4 days i mean like really morning till evening. cause you need specific events etc.

    soo have fun!
    (mostly use Quip over HOPE tho if i use a legendary skin)

    Pft. Will just use sunless weapon skins for when I use d/p then (got 9 of the skins so far lol)

  • Garrus.7403Garrus.7403 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 10, 2018

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    There are Mercenary Camps in Eternal Battlegrounds. I'm not sure what you're trying to add here...

    Perhaps I overlooked something but what I'm trying to add here is interesting and fun gameplay to an otherwise boring game mode.

    Boring for you. Just because you dont enjoy the game mode does not mean other players dont enjoy it. We have to farm tons of pve stuff so you can farm one reward track in wvw. Its a few hours with boost so come on. Most of the wvw players play wvw for fun not for rewards. If you want reward go raiding or do what ever map farm is meta nowadays.

  • Offair.2563Offair.2563 Member ✭✭✭

    i'd like a gift of battle that doesn't require a battle at all. Whilst on it i'd like gift of ezplorations without exploring.

    Don't argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and own you with experience.
    Big Babou, Ranger for life.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    As primarily a PvE player, I would never set foot in WvW if not for the Gift of Battle...

    **as primarily a WvW player, I would never set foot in PvE if not for the Gift of Exploration

    It works both ways. Until someone addresses that part, changing the requirements for GoB is a non starter for me.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Garrus.7403 said:

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    There are Mercenary Camps in Eternal Battlegrounds. I'm not sure what you're trying to add here...

    Perhaps I overlooked something but what I'm trying to add here is interesting and fun gameplay to an otherwise boring game mode.

    Boring for you. Just because you dont enjoy the game mode does not mean other players dont enjoy it. We have to farm tons of pve stuff so you can farm one reward track in wvw. Its a few hours with boost so come on. Most of the wvw players play wvw for fun not for rewards. If you want reward go raiding or do what ever map farm is meta nowadays.

    well i wouldnt say no to more rewards in WvW, but the rewards are already not really good implemented in WvW. you get reward for participating and the larger your group the more loot you will get not the better each in your group.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • This thread illustrates why "Mo" is so rightfully proud of his game's community :#

  • @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    As primarily a PvE player, I would never set foot in WvW if not for the Gift of Battle...

    **as primarily a WvW player, I would never set foot in PvE if not for the Gift of Exploration

    It works both ways. Until someone addresses that part, changing the requirements for GoB is a non starter for me.

    Very good point that I can relate to but change has to start somewhere.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    There are Mercenary Camps in Eternal Battlegrounds. I'm not sure what you're trying to add here...

    Perhaps I overlooked something but what I'm trying to add here is interesting and fun gameplay to an otherwise boring game mode.

    maybe it would be more fun to you, but not for others? but they dont matter eh? obly one who matters is you, great.

    you dont like solo wvw, you dont like smallscale, you dont like zerging...looks like you dont like fighting other players at all...and someone like you want to change this whole gamemode so it just fits your needs, thats seriously making me angry, how can you even think to be able to make propositions to changes when you like not one of the major aspects of this mode. are you that arrogant?
    kitten to be you, put up with 5 hours of a bit wvw, you dont even need to fight, you can mostly be afk lol, or dont get a legendary...
    wvw players had not only play some pve, we had to play this boring oh so repetetive gamemode for years to get our wvw gear

    just go eotm dude, there you can run in circles without meeting a single soul for hours, oh and the matchups are only a few hours till reset, hf and now get lost

  • @Garrus.7403 said:

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    There are Mercenary Camps in Eternal Battlegrounds. I'm not sure what you're trying to add here...

    Perhaps I overlooked something but what I'm trying to add here is interesting and fun gameplay to an otherwise boring game mode.

    Boring for you. Just because you dont enjoy the game mode does not mean other players dont enjoy it. We have to farm tons of pve stuff so you can farm one reward track in wvw. Its a few hours with boost so come on. Most of the wvw players play wvw for fun not for rewards. If you want reward go raiding or do what ever map farm is meta nowadays.

    I know for a fact that I'm not the only one that feels the way that I feel as I've spoken with multiple people that have expressed similar or the same opinion(s) that I have in this post. While you're right that WvW players have to do PvE content for legendary weapons I don't think that should justify having to do something you literally hate doing, in fact I think it's quite the opposite.

    With this said, perhaps several aspects of the game need to looked at and reevaluated. Or perhaps the issue isn't with the individual game modes at all but rather the gifts themselves. Perhaps each individual game mode should have their own respective gifts, I don't know. What I do know is that I do raid; I'll be raiding this weekend. I also will be grinding in Istan at some point as well but those aspects of the game still have nothing to do with my original topic of discussion.

  • Etheri.5406Etheri.5406 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 10, 2018

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    As primarily a PvE player, I would never set foot in WvW if not for the Gift of Battle...

    **as primarily a WvW player, I would never set foot in PvE if not for the Gift of Exploration

    It works both ways. Until someone addresses that part, changing the requirements for GoB is a non starter for me.

    Very good point that I can relate to but change has to start somewhere.

    Then tell us what you expect. I hate WvW isn't good reasoning.
    How do you expect players to get legendaries? Outright buy them and remove gifts of mastery? Fair enough, altho that makes them a lot less "legendary". Already true for some new ones.
    Include PVE only because legendary = pve? That's just... your desires without any foundation.
    Remove PVE because no wvw player want to deal with PvE players grinding GoB? Perhaps.

    Furthermore, you start your post with "I don't like WvW". I think that's fair; I don't like story.
    But then you go and explain the things that, in your opinion, should be changed about WvW to make it better. I don't think you can give appropriate feedback about a very complex gamemode if you've barely played it and couldn't find to enjoy it. It definitely doesn't make us focus on those suggestions.

    Perhaps just realise WvW just... isn't for you? That's OK. Even then, you'll survive 5 hours of farming GoB. If not, as mentioned before I'm sure people will let you afk for 100g. 100g is barely 5% compared to the price of your legendary.

    Change has to start somewhere; but you don't tell us what you want to change or why. You don't make good arguments. You just say; I don't like this. Please remove or change it so I like it better without much foundation. I don't think this is a good basis for critique or feedback.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    @Garrus.7403 said:

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    There are Mercenary Camps in Eternal Battlegrounds. I'm not sure what you're trying to add here...

    Perhaps I overlooked something but what I'm trying to add here is interesting and fun gameplay to an otherwise boring game mode.

    Boring for you. Just because you dont enjoy the game mode does not mean other players dont enjoy it. We have to farm tons of pve stuff so you can farm one reward track in wvw. Its a few hours with boost so come on. Most of the wvw players play wvw for fun not for rewards. If you want reward go raiding or do what ever map farm is meta nowadays.

    I know for a fact that I'm not the only one that feels the way that I feel as I've spoken with multiple people that have expressed similar or the same opinion(s) that I have in this post. While you're right that WvW players have to do PvE content for legendary weapons I don't think that should justify having to do something you literally hate doing, in fact I think it's quite the opposite.

    With this said, perhaps several aspects of the game need to looked at and reevaluated. Or perhaps the issue isn't with the individual game modes at all but rather the gifts themselves. Perhaps each individual game mode should have their own respective gifts, I don't know. What I do know is that I do raid; I'll be raiding this weekend. I also will be grinding in Istan at some point as well but those aspects of the game still have nothing to do with my original topic of discussion.

    we didnt just have to play pve (a mode many of us hate as much as you hate wvw) for legendaries, we had to play it for BASIC stuff, ascended gear(or even just exotic gear) and even runes we needed for builds, we could only get those in pve
    and a legendary shouldnt only fun to be obtainable, if you get it still, than you will feel like you accomplished something...i wish wvw was still need for exploration, just to upset you even more geez

  • @RedShark.9548 said:

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    There are Mercenary Camps in Eternal Battlegrounds. I'm not sure what you're trying to add here...

    Perhaps I overlooked something but what I'm trying to add here is interesting and fun gameplay to an otherwise boring game mode.

    maybe it would be more fun to you, but not for others? but they dont matter eh? obly one who matters is you, great.

    you dont like solo wvw, you dont like smallscale, you dont like zerging...looks like you dont like fighting other players at all...and someone like you want to change this whole gamemode so it just fits your needs, thats seriously making me angry, how can you even think to be able to make propositions to changes when you like not one of the major aspects of this mode. are you that arrogant?
    kitten to be you, put up with 5 hours of a bit wvw, you dont even need to fight, you can mostly be afk lol, or dont get a legendary...
    wvw players had not only play some pve, we had to play this boring oh so repetetive gamemode for years to get our wvw gear

    just go eotm dude, there you can run in circles without meeting a single soul for hours, oh and the matchups are only a few hours till reset, hf and now get lost

    At what point did I say that I'm the only one that matters? At what point did I even imply that? I didn't... The purpose of this post is to try and better WvW for all people hence why I opened the post up to discussion and yet all I'm receiving is hatred from WvW players.

    Surely there must be aspects of WvW that players dislike, for me it's literally the entire mode but that doesn't make my opinion any more/less valid then yours or anyone else's so why not speak up?

    At what point was I being arrogant? I dislike this mode and instead of simply complaining I came up with a hypothetical scenario and let it out into the world. If you don't like it that's fine but don't make me out to be the bad guy just because you disagree with me.

    Thanks for agreeing with me that WvW is boring.

  • @Arctisavange.7261 said:
    Poor PVE player has to do a little bit of WvW just to get his gift of battle.
    Kind of a news flash to you but A LOT of WvW players were forced to do a TON of PVE for many years to get their runes and gold just to be able to gear up back when there was no reward track system in WvW and getting some specific runes needed the PVE route.
    That 8 hours of you WvWing is like a joke compared to what WvWrs had to go through to be able to play their game mode.

    Imagine now being forced to go in Spvp? When you know the community there is super toxic and the reward it gives depends on if you're winning or loosing ? Still for me (who like both pvp gamemode) I think being WvW locked is stupid AF.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    There are Mercenary Camps in Eternal Battlegrounds. I'm not sure what you're trying to add here...

    Perhaps I overlooked something but what I'm trying to add here is interesting and fun gameplay to an otherwise boring game mode.

    maybe it would be more fun to you, but not for others? but they dont matter eh? obly one who matters is you, great.

    you dont like solo wvw, you dont like smallscale, you dont like zerging...looks like you dont like fighting other players at all...and someone like you want to change this whole gamemode so it just fits your needs, thats seriously making me angry, how can you even think to be able to make propositions to changes when you like not one of the major aspects of this mode. are you that arrogant?
    kitten to be you, put up with 5 hours of a bit wvw, you dont even need to fight, you can mostly be afk lol, or dont get a legendary...
    wvw players had not only play some pve, we had to play this boring oh so repetetive gamemode for years to get our wvw gear

    just go eotm dude, there you can run in circles without meeting a single soul for hours, oh and the matchups are only a few hours till reset, hf and now get lost

    At what point did I say that I'm the only one that matters? At what point did I even imply that? I didn't... The purpose of this post is to try and better WvW for all people hence why I opened the post up to discussion and yet all I'm receiving is hatred from WvW players.

    Surely there must be aspects of WvW that players dislike, for me it's literally the entire mode but that doesn't make my opinion any more/less valid then yours or anyone else's so why not speak up?

    At what point was I being arrogant? I dislike this mode and instead of simply complaining I came up with a hypothetical scenario and let it out into the world. If you don't like it that's fine but don't make me out to be the bad guy just because you disagree with me.

    Thanks for agreeing with me that WvW is boring.

    you are arrogant in assuming that you, who barely played this mode, could have any insight on what to change, even telling us, that you dont like the major aspect of it, which is fighting other players. i said you think you are the only one that matters because you attempt to overhaul a complete gamemode just so it fits your needs (okey maybe also those of your other pve friends who told you that they didnt like wvw) disregardig all thode ppl who played and still play this mode for years because they like it the way it is

    trying to turn the words in my mouth? learn to read
    "wvw players had not only play some pve, we had to play this boring oh so repetetive gamemode for years to get our wvw gear"

    since i only mentioned pve as a gamemode in this sentence its obvious i was still talking about pve when i said it was repetetive and boring

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 10, 2018

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    There are Mercenary Camps in Eternal Battlegrounds. I'm not sure what you're trying to add here...

    Perhaps I overlooked something but what I'm trying to add here is interesting and fun gameplay to an otherwise boring game mode.

    Did you miss that the Dredge, Ogres, and Hylek mercenary camps do exactly what you are suggesting on EBG and provide additional forces for players to capture nearby camps? Additionally centaurs already do attack on the alpine borderland map and pop defense events at those nodes which gives event credit to whoever goes and scouts that.

    If you think these Mercenary Camps are fun and interesting gameplay and should be added, yet they are already there in the game mode that you don't enjoy, then perhaps the issue is you just don't have the understanding of the game mode that you think you do, not that the game mode is boring. Practically everything you wrote in your post is a description of EBG so I'm not sure why you are not playing on it. The only thing missing from your description of EBG is the Champ Arboreal Spirit and the Overgrown Grub bosses.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    As primarily a PvE player, I would never set foot in WvW if not for the Gift of Battle...

    **as primarily a WvW player, I would never set foot in PvE if not for the Gift of Exploration

    It works both ways. Until someone addresses that part, changing the requirements for GoB is a non starter for me.

    Very good point that I can relate to but change has to start somewhere.

    Well, that is assuming that change happens.

    So, why not start in with the Gift of Exploration? It is a much longer proposition, boosters don't help, and there is no reward track for it.

    In Fact: why not make 'Gift of The Fog of War' and have the WvW players be allowed to explore the WvW map and have it replace the Gift of Exploration in all the recipes? But only allowed for rank 500 and up? And combine it with Badges of Honor?

    I might be willing to consider the GoB being different.

  • @Chaba.5410 said:

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    There are Mercenary Camps in Eternal Battlegrounds. I'm not sure what you're trying to add here...

    Perhaps I overlooked something but what I'm trying to add here is interesting and fun gameplay to an otherwise boring game mode.

    Did you miss that the Dredge, Ogres, and Hylek mercenary camps do exactly what you are suggesting on EBG and provide additional forces for players to capture nearby camps? Additionally centaurs already do attack on the alpine borderland map and pop defense events at those nodes which gives event credit to whoever goes and scouts that.

    If you think these Mercenary Camps are fun and interesting gameplay and should be added, yet they are already there in the game mode that you don't enjoy, then perhaps the issue is you just don't have the understanding of the game mode that you think you do, not that the game mode is boring. Practically everything you wrote in your post is a description of EBG so I'm not sure why you are not playing on it. The only thing missing from your description of EBG is the Champ Arboreal Spirit and the Overgrown Grub bosses.

    Maybe I don't have a great understanding of how WvW is played, that's a very real possibility but if that's the case then why do I never see people doing these? Is it because they're currently not impactful enough? Is it because they don't have any meaningful rewards attached to them? I don't know; you tell me.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    There are Mercenary Camps in Eternal Battlegrounds. I'm not sure what you're trying to add here...

    Perhaps I overlooked something but what I'm trying to add here is interesting and fun gameplay to an otherwise boring game mode.

    Did you miss that the Dredge, Ogres, and Hylek mercenary camps do exactly what you are suggesting on EBG and provide additional forces for players to capture nearby camps? Additionally centaurs already do attack on the alpine borderland map and pop defense events at those nodes which gives event credit to whoever goes and scouts that.

    If you think these Mercenary Camps are fun and interesting gameplay and should be added, yet they are already there in the game mode that you don't enjoy, then perhaps the issue is you just don't have the understanding of the game mode that you think you do, not that the game mode is boring. Practically everything you wrote in your post is a description of EBG so I'm not sure why you are not playing on it. The only thing missing from your description of EBG is the Champ Arboreal Spirit and the Overgrown Grub bosses.

    Maybe I don't have a great understanding of how WvW is played, that's a very real possibility but if that's the case then why do I never see people doing these? Is it because they're currently not impactful enough? Is it because they don't have any meaningful rewards attached to them? I don't know; you tell me.

    Maybe you don't see them being done because you don't enjoy the mode and play it rarely?

  • @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    As primarily a PvE player, I would never set foot in WvW if not for the Gift of Battle...

    **as primarily a WvW player, I would never set foot in PvE if not for the Gift of Exploration

    It works both ways. Until someone addresses that part, changing the requirements for GoB is a non starter for me.

    Very good point that I can relate to but change has to start somewhere.

    Well, that is assuming that change happens.

    So, why not start in with the Gift of Exploration? It is a much longer proposition, boosters don't help, and there is no reward track for it.

    In Fact: why not make 'Gift of The Fog of War' and have the WvW players be allowed to explore the WvW map and have it replace the Gift of Exploration in all the recipes? But only allowed for rank 500 and up? And combine it with Badges of Honor?

    I might be willing to consider the GoB being different.

    This is a cool idea. If the game modes aren't the issue here but rather the gifts themselves then alternative ways of obtaining them might be a viable solution thus having multiple iterations of the GoB would be a great idea.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 10, 2018

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    There are Mercenary Camps in Eternal Battlegrounds. I'm not sure what you're trying to add here...

    Perhaps I overlooked something but what I'm trying to add here is interesting and fun gameplay to an otherwise boring game mode.

    Did you miss that the Dredge, Ogres, and Hylek mercenary camps do exactly what you are suggesting on EBG and provide additional forces for players to capture nearby camps? Additionally centaurs already do attack on the alpine borderland map and pop defense events at those nodes which gives event credit to whoever goes and scouts that.

    If you think these Mercenary Camps are fun and interesting gameplay and should be added, yet they are already there in the game mode that you don't enjoy, then perhaps the issue is you just don't have the understanding of the game mode that you think you do, not that the game mode is boring. Practically everything you wrote in your post is a description of EBG so I'm not sure why you are not playing on it. The only thing missing from your description of EBG is the Champ Arboreal Spirit and the Overgrown Grub bosses.

    Maybe I don't have a great understanding of how WvW is played, that's a very real possibility but if that's the case then why do I never see people doing these? Is it because they're currently not impactful enough? Is it because they don't have any meaningful rewards attached to them? I don't know; you tell me.

    I see players flipping the mercenary camps all the time! Sometimes they even purposely do not flip them so that their location on the map isn't advertised to enemy players. The key of WvW is playing against other players, not simply mercenary camps.

  • Brother.1504Brother.1504 Member ✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    As primarily a PvE player, I would never set foot in WvW if not for the Gift of Battle...

    **as primarily a WvW player, I would never set foot in PvE if not for the Gift of Exploration

    It works both ways. Until someone addresses that part, changing the requirements for GoB is a non starter for me.

    Someone gets it. The idea is to “encourage” players to try different things.

    In my experience with full boosters it only takes roughly 4 hours to complete the reward track if your with a productive commander. Not too bad of a time commitment.

    I would suggest starting slow with wvw it grows on you. Do just your daily wvw, they give track advancement, and see what kind of cool stuff is happening.

  • Kaiser.9873Kaiser.9873 Member ✭✭✭

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    There are Mercenary Camps in Eternal Battlegrounds. I'm not sure what you're trying to add here...

    Perhaps I overlooked something but what I'm trying to add here is interesting and fun gameplay to an otherwise boring game mode.

    See this is the fundamental issue with your complaint. Boring to who?

    Boring to you.

    There are many players that only go into PvE for gold, OR to gather what you need to make a legendary. Trust me when I say GoB is NOTHING compared to exploration. PvE is boring to us. So I would gladly advocate ANEt make GoB easier for you to obtain IF they made everything we would need out of PvE-land easier for us to obtain.

  • It takes 30sec to get one reward track done. Use bufs+t6 participatipn+100potionsfrom wvwdaylis. U can get 6potions/day. ez

  • Hoon.1524Hoon.1524 Member ✭✭

    It's called Gift of Battle for a reason... Not Gift of Buying.
    Imagine having to get it pre-Reward Track... You'd actually have to go out and fight other players to get your badges to buy it~!! THE HORROR~!!

    ...or you did like me and farmed the jumping puzzles for a month back in 2013

  • "Please do explain to me just how the hardcore WvWers are fine with this..."

    Please do.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    "Please do explain to me just how the hardcore WvWers are fine with this..."

    Please do.

    Off-topic? Seems like you're trying to discuss something new.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    MC's and DE's (to an extent) already exist. In ABL, you can farm the ghosts in the ruins, the champion aboreal thing NW of the NW camp, champ wurm by the SE Keep as well as others in ABLs (centaurs/skritt...etc). They dont get progressively stronger, however they are DE's (where you probably havent seen these, ill sum it up that you didnt know).

    Its understandable for someone who doesnt WvW to look for ways to make it easier in certain aspects (most commonly for GoB) however WvW doesnt get as much love as PvE so it will typically fall on deaf ears. Its possible with the alliance system other things may change, however we will have to wait and see.

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • Car.3805Car.3805 Member

    Hello, for PvE exploration, may I have the option of killing players to count as a quest heart/POI/vista/waypoint completion? It'll be the fastest Gift of Exploration reward ever! I can't imagine anyone actually likes doing quest hearts/POI/vistas/waypoints.

<1
©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.