As primarily a PvE player, I would never set foot in WvW if not for the Gift of Battle...

In its current state, WvW is not fun to me by any means. Roaming can be difficult to do solo and seldom is fun in a small group, zerging is never fun to me because, eventually, another zerg will come to defend its territory, and the content for WvW is small.

Buffs:

Currently, without full buffs to reward track progress it takes approximately 8hr 32m 24s to complete a full track at T6 participation; with full buffs you get a 100% increase to reward track progress which literally halves the amount of time needed to complete said track (4hr 16m 12s).

Calculations Without Buffs:

• T6 participation = +195 RTP points every 5 minutes
• Each track requires 20k points to complete
• 20k RTP ÷ 195 = 102.56 (amount of times you need to earn 195 RTP points)
• 102.56 x 5 minutes = 512.8 minutes
• 512.8m ÷ 60m/hr = 8.54hrs
• 60m/hr x 0.54m = 32.4m
• 60s/m x 0.4m = 24s
• Total time to complete a single reward track (without buffs) = 8hrs 32m 24s

Calculations With Buffs:

• T6 participation = +195 RTP every 5 minutes + 100% RTP = +390 RTP points every 5 minutes
• Each track requires 20k points to complete
• 20k RTP ÷ 390 = 51.28 (amount of times you need to earn 390 RTP points)
• 51.28 x 5 minutes = 256.4 minutes
• 256.4m ÷ 60m/hr = 4.27hrs
• 60m/hr x 0.27m = 16.2m
• 60s/m x 0.2m = 12s
• Total time to complete a single reward track (with buffs) = 4hrs 16m 12s

That is still a ridiculously long time to spend doing something you hate doing. Now obviously if you spread that out over 8 days you'd only have to spend approximately 35m in WvW each day with full track buffs.

By, "full buffs", I mean the following: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/WvW_Reward_Track#Reward_track_modifiers

• Guild Enhancement (+10%)
• Experience Booster (+50%)
• Black Lion Booster (+25%)
• Celebration Booster (+10%)
• WvW Reward Track Enrichment (+5%)
• Total = 100%

NOTE: Please note that not all of the above buffs are readily available making it difficult to maintain the 100% increase and the above percentage does not include time limited buffs such as the, "Call to War", (+25%)

Dailies:

Now if you take dailies into consideration you're only having to spend approximately 4.23 days doing WvW 35m per day to obtain a gift of battle because each completed daily rewards you with 2 Potions of WvW Rewards which gives you 250 reward track progress points per potion for a total of 4,730 points per day (at T6 participation and full buffs).

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Potion_of_WvW_Rewards

If the gift of battle is all you have left to finish whichever legendary you're working on 4 days is a lot of extra time to wait and over 4 continuous hours in WvW (if you hate it like I do) is like torture. But I digress. The purpose of this thread is to open discussion about how WvW could be changed to make it more enjoyable for non-WvW fans while maintaining whatever it is that WvW fans continue to enjoy.

World Restructuring:

While I am aware that Arena Net is working on the World Restructuring update for WvW, if my understanding is correct that isn't going to solve my concerns with the game mode. I thoroughly feel as though a rather large change is needed.

World Restructuring is a new system that when added into the game will make matchmaking for the game mode smoother and overall better. This I believe to be true but the problem that I have with this change is that in no way does it change the way the game mode plays.

It doesn't change: war score, reward tracks, reward track progress, etc... Which isn't necessarily a bad thing but it basically means that the same concern I have now will not go away when this update is implemented.

The Battle of Eternity!

Now, I do know that the possibility of changing rewards is on the table for Arena Net but won't be considered well into the future. Until then all we can do is talk so what I propose is this: The Battle of Eternity. The BoE would be the same multi-headed, WvW onslaught that it currently is minus the outlying borderlands, focusing exclusively on EBG warfare.

In my idea, each skirmish would last 2hrs like they currently do. Worlds would start each skirmish with a home base (Garrison) and their home keep already captured. The garrison should always be under ally control so that a safe spawn is always maintained meaning that enemy worlds can't capture it.

Additionally, 2 towers and 2 camps would reside in each worlds territory but would have to be captured to begin generating points for each team. Similar to the current iteration of WvW, structures (objectives) would generate 1 point per second to the controlling team for a total of 5 points per second per team.

To make it possible for teams to defeat one another in the skirmish: camps, towers, and keeps are all up for grabs including the Castle located in the center of the arena: Stonemist Castle. SMC as it's called would generate an additional 5 points per second to the controlling team for a total of 10 points per second. This would make SMC a high-valued target. (Garrisons would not generate points)

Neutral Objectives:

Now, to break the monotony I suggest that additional, neutral objectives are placed around the map that aid the controlling team in their fight to capture and hold not just their own base and structures but SMC as well.

One such objective could be called: Mercenary Camps. MCs would function similarly to how they do in MOBAs such as League of Legends and Heroes of the Storm in the sense that you would acquire their aid by defeating them in combat and then capturing their camp.

MCs wouldn't generate any additional points for the controlling team, but would provide such things as additional manpower when assaulting enemy structures. For example, one such MC could be a small grove of Oakhearts that, when captured, would assault neighboring, enemy towers. Another MC could be a giant war machine that could be controlled by a single player to assault whichever objective they choose.

Another idea could be dynamic events. A dynamic event where a group of centaurs begin assaulting your or your enemies base for no reason other then pure, unadulterated bloodshed could happen every 15 minutes and, as the skirmish progresses, would get stronger and stronger each time, starting out as mere veterans all the way up to intimidating legendaries.

These events would also not generate points when completed nor would they subtract points if failed but they would leave your base vulnerable if not attended to, presenting opportunities for opponents to strike where there wasn't one before. However, loot such as T6 materials or maybe even a rare chance for, “Battle Shards”, to drop could be possible.

Battle Shards:

Battle Shards could be legendary crafting materials that, when 50 are combined, would create a full Gift of Battle. I'm not saying that the GoB track should be discontinued I'm merely saying that this could be an alternative way of obtaining it.

Neutral Objective Rating System and Points:

One thing I do think that MCs and DEs could generate is additional reward track progress instead of just exp and karma. (These points would not be affected by reward track buffs) To accommodate this, MCs and DEs could be rated as: veteran, elite, champion, and legendary.

Veteran events and camps could award 25 RTPs, elite events and camps could reward 50 RTPs, champion events and camps could reward 75 RTPs, and legendary events and camps could reward 100 RTPs for a total, possible addition of 500 Reward Track Points per hour.

The same 195 RTPs every 5 minutes at T6 participation would remain the same, as well as the current daily rewards, making it possible to earn 5,180 reward track points per hour (without buffs). The possibilities for MCs and DEs are endless so I'd love to read everyone's ideas on: what they could be, what loot they could drop, where and how they would spawn, and so on...

Personally, I feel as though legendary weapons should require a legendary journey to be obtained and in its current state WvW doesn't feel very legendary, just annoying. I don't know what, if any, plans Arena Net has regarding the GoB in coming patches but personally I hate being forced to do something I simply don't enjoy doing.

If you got to this point, thank you for reading. Take care.

TL;DR: I feel as though the outlying bordlerlands are nothing more then a distraction and that the content currently in the game is minimal. (For WvW)

yeah this all sounds like you would like to get your GoB in EotM..as far as i know you actually can! just a little slower cause of no pips..

Poor PVE player has to do a little bit of WvW just to get his gift of battle.Kind of a news flash to you but A LOT of WvW players were forced to do a TON of PVE for many years to get their runes and gold just to be able to gear up back when there was no reward track system in WvW and getting some specific runes needed the PVE route.That 8 hours of you WvWing is like a joke compared to what WvWrs had to go through to be able to play their game mode.

Guild Enhancement (+10%) -readily availableExperience Booster (+50%) -laurel booster/candy corn gobblerBlack Lion Booster (+25%) -wvw eventCelebration Booster (+10%) -birthday boosterWvW Reward Track Enrichment (+5%) -cheap enrichmentTotal = 100%NOTE: Please note that not all of the above buffs are readily available making it difficult to maintain the 100% increase and the above percentage does not include time limited buffs such as the, "Call to War", (+25%)

how are they not readily available? the only one thats pretty hard to get is the BL booster, but if you time it with wvw events its not necessary. also pip reward tracks grant extra reward track progression.

seriously theres a lot of stuff some wvw players dont get (a LOT of skins, gold, free 32 slot bag, achievement rewards, to name some) because they hate doing pve. but you dont see them making threads about it...

Funny, how pvers have no issue doing 303 renowned hearts (i bet THAT is interesting, eh), or 600+ POI, or 188+ hero points or HoT maps that require absurdly boring metas (DS, for example) but the gift of battle is a hindrance, which is perfectly doable by mostly afking...Funny, indeed.

Yo forgot to add...tl:dr please change the game mode and reward system cause I don't like it and don't want to invest my pve farming time for this stupid game mode cause it's not fun for me.

@Hoon.1524 said:Yo forgot to add...tl:dr please change the game mode and reward system cause I don't like it and don't want to invest my pve farming time for this stupid game mode cause it's not fun for me.

maybe if it would net more gold then the pve grinds, that would change..

1 shotting plebs like a aluminium cans and reaping them like wheat is all the reward I need... after 5 years of playing, gold is over rated to me

There are Mercenary Camps in Eternal Battlegrounds. I'm not sure what you're trying to add here...

Instead of writing such a wall of text, you would be half done with your Gift of Battle. It's a legendary and 6-7h of WvW is no such big thing. I am mainly PvE player and don't have any problems. Just go through it...

@"dolcolax.1268" said:Guild Enhancement (+10%) -readily availableExperience Booster (+50%) -laurel booster/candy corn gobblerBlack Lion Booster (+25%) -wvw eventCelebration Booster (+10%) -birthday boosterWvW Reward Track Enrichment (+5%) -cheap enrichmentTotal = 100%NOTE: Please note that not all of the above buffs are readily available making it difficult to maintain the 100% increase and the above percentage does not include time limited buffs such as the, "Call to War", (+25%)

how are they not readily available? the only one thats pretty hard to get is the BL booster, but if you time it with wvw events its not necessary. also pip reward tracks grant extra reward track progression.

seriously theres a lot of stuff some wvw players dont get (a LOT of skins, gold, free 32 slot bag, achievement rewards, to name some) because they hate doing pve. but you dont see them making threads about it...

• If you'll note, I said that, "not all", of them are readily available. The guild buff is readily available for sure.
• The laurel booster is dependant on a weekly reward, only lasts for 30m compared to the exp booster which lasts for 2 hours meaning for every 1 exp booster you'd need 4 laurel boosters.
• The candy corn gobbler boost is random, you need the candy corn in inventory, and the boost lasts only 7-10m. I will say that it can be extended and you can get more then one application per use (also random) but it's all down to RNG.
• Events like the Call to Arms are limited time events that seldom happen.
• Birthday boosters are obtainable only once per year per character. Yes, they do last 24hrs but if you're only farming for 35m/day, it's a bit of a waste imo. If you have 70 characters, or whatever the cap is, then you'll have no issues with this but I don't.

Lastly, I'd like to make this clear not just to you but everyone else that reads this comment. I didn't make this thread to bash WvWers or WvW itself, I was simply voicing my concerns about the game mode. I'm not JUST a PvE player. Primarily, yes, but I do all sorts of things in this game: open world PvE, structured PvP, raid, dungeons from time-to-time, and even WvW when I'm forced to for the GoB.

I'm sure WvW players have many concerns about PvE and are very welcome to voice their concerns with whatever aspects of PvE they may have (hopefully not in this thread). This is my opinion on WvW, you don't have to agree with it but the point of this thread is to discuss WvW and how it could be improved.

@Voltekka.2375 said:Funny, how pvers have no issue doing 303 renowned hearts (i bet THAT is interesting, eh), or 600+ POI, or 188+ hero points or HoT maps that require absurdly boring metas (DS, for example) but the gift of battle is a hindrance, which is perfectly doable by mostly afking...Funny, indeed.

I actually hate doing that as well and only do it when I need to.

@Chaba.5410 said:There are Mercenary Camps in Eternal Battlegrounds. I'm not sure what you're trying to add here...

Perhaps I overlooked something but what I'm trying to add here is interesting and fun gameplay to an otherwise boring game mode.

Can you calculate how long it takes to do world completion for me?

@Gemnaid.4219 said:Can you calculate how long it takes to do world completion for me?

Also the endless side missions for HOPE as I just started that the other day. Having to do world boss/fractals and jumping puzzles- yay!

@Voltekka.2375 said:Funny, how pvers have no issue doing 303 renowned hearts (i bet THAT is interesting, eh), or 600+ POI, or 188+ hero points or HoT maps that require absurdly boring metas (DS, for example) but the gift of battle is a hindrance, which is perfectly doable by mostly afking...Funny, indeed.

Don't promote afking in WvW. If you want rewards, play for them. If you want to afk, go OS.

Dear OP, just pay WvW players gold so you can AFK in OS with boosters. I'm sure for say... 20g you won't have trouble finding WvWers that keep your participation at max. If you cannot, contact me. For 20g/ hour i'll gladly do it ;)

I have EVERYTHING i need for several legendaries, except map completion. I'd quite like to see that removed, too . Legendaries were supposed to be legendary and require each gamemode. WvW's aspect has already been heavily reduced. I'm not a fan of having players that don't want to play WvW in WvW; but I also think that 5 hours isn't exactly unreasonable. And again, if 5 hours is too much effort; pay WvW players for it. You can share participation for a reason.

@Arctisavange.7261 said:Poor PVE player has to do a little bit of WvW just to get his gift of battle.Kind of a news flash to you but A LOT of WvW players were forced to do a TON of PVE for many years to get their runes and gold just to be able to gear up back when there was no reward track system in WvW and getting some specific runes needed the PVE route.That 8 hours of you WvWing is like a joke compared to what WvWrs had to go through to be able to play their game mode.

this this this

Would make no sense to get a gift of battle without doing any kind of battle.Still very possible but so damn slow.

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Funny, how pvers have no issue doing 303 renowned hearts (i bet THAT is interesting, eh), or 600+ POI, or 188+ hero points or HoT maps that require absurdly boring metas (DS, for example) but the gift of battle is a hindrance, which is perfectly doable by mostly afking...Funny, indeed.

Dont get me wrong, I dont encourage afking in wvw (i am a wvwer, myself). It was just said to show how much a pver can qq over GoB in a leggy, when LITERALLY the vast majority time and gold wise of crafting one (i have several gen1 and Gen2 myself) requires mindless pve gold farming, world map exploration, a helluva lot more grind. But wvw is the problem, yeah...

So the main problem here is that you don't seem to enjoy any of the things that define wvw as a game mode.

@Voltekka.2375 said:Dont get me wrong, I dont encourage afking in wvw (i am a wvwer, myself). It was just said to show how much a pver can qq over GoB in a leggy, when LITERALLY the vast majority time and gold wise of crafting one (i have several gen1 and Gen2 myself) requires mindless pve gold farming, world map exploration, a helluva lot more grind. But wvw is the problem, yeah...

I never said that there weren't issues on the PvE side of things. I personally hate having to do map completion: hearts are obnoxious, PoIs are plentiful, HPs can be tricky to get sometimes, etc...

I also don't enjoy mindless gold farms but the reason why I'm more willing to do those over WvW is simply because with every champ you kill, with every boss you loot, and every hour you spend doing them you're ACTIVELY getting rewarded. But this isn't the place to talk about that aspect of making legendary weapons.

With WvW you get rewarded in increments and the reward just doesn't feel worth the effort in MY opinion. Obviously my idea is rather grandiose and I'm sure there are easier solutions that would take much less time for Arena Net to implement such as adding another GoB to the track so instead of only one gift you get two maybe. I don't know.

All I know is that I'd rather spend my time doing other aspects of the game because I simply don't enjoy the time I spend in WvW but because I want to make legendary weapons, I'm forced to do WvW. I don't think that's a good way to get your player base to experience a certain aspect of the game.

@cyndelaq.7148 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Dont get me wrong, I dont encourage afking in wvw (i am a wvwer, myself). It was just said to show how much a pver can qq over GoB in a leggy, when LITERALLY the vast majority time and gold wise of crafting one (i have several gen1 and Gen2 myself) requires mindless pve gold farming, world map exploration, a helluva lot more grind. But wvw is the problem, yeah...

The more rank you have in wvw, the more pips you get. The more pips you get, the faster you finish Diamond chests over and over. The more you finish Diamond chest, the more bonus instant reward track progress stuff you get.Also, if legendary weapon crafting seems so tedious in every aspect for you, maybe dont do it. Legendary weps add nothing of actual value or even QoL to a player, anyway.

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Gemnaid.4219 said:Can you calculate how long it takes to do world completion for me?

HOPE took me 4 days wich also did include some exp grind for masteries . and saying 4 days i mean like really morning till evening. cause you need specific events etc.

soo have fun!(mostly use Quip over HOPE tho if i use a legendary skin)

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Gemnaid.4219 said:Can you calculate how long it takes to do world completion for me?

Pft. Will just use sunless weapon skins for when I use d/p then (got 9 of the skins so far lol)

@cyndelaq.7148 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:There are Mercenary Camps in Eternal Battlegrounds. I'm not sure what you're trying to add here...

Boring for you. Just because you dont enjoy the game mode does not mean other players dont enjoy it. We have to farm tons of pve stuff so you can farm one reward track in wvw. Its a few hours with boost so come on. Most of the wvw players play wvw for fun not for rewards. If you want reward go raiding or do what ever map farm is meta nowadays.