Is there a point to Scourge anymore?

Can you please redesign this spec now? This spec was made to fill specific roles, condi spec/boon corruption/area control etc. But after so many nerfs is there even a point to it? Boon corruption nerfed, damage nerfed, survivability nerfed, in addition to necromancers lack of any sustain and mobility skills. You create a spec which encourages us to play in a specific way, then you nerf the hell out of it. Seriously just redesign the entire spec at this point.

Tbh i wouldn't mind if that spec never happened. Only good thing about it is barriers and using them to give necro shield that doesn't deprive him of his utilities nor ability to be healed.

But other then that this is not a necro spec using shades. It's shade spec with necro taked on there somewhere. core necro is...ok it's shit. But still a necro. Reaper is fun, with tons of builds and engaging playstyle. Scourge is more boring then a warrior! And when i think something is more boring the a warrior, you know it's fucked!

I appreciate that the spec is weakened in its overperforming aspects which are trailblazer/dire and impact when firebrand babysitted.

I do not appreciate that the spec does not get any compensations - e.g. increased direct damage coefficents on shade-, torch- and punishment-skills or better mobility.

And I don't understand at all why they are having such a hard time to normalize dps for PvE folks so that everyone has his 30k (not more and not less) dps build.

@KrHome.1920 said:I appreciate that the spec is weakened in its overperforming aspects which are trailblazer/dire and impact when firebrand babysitted.

I do not appreciate that the spec does not get any compensations - e.g. increased direct damage coefficents on shade-, torch- and punishment-skills or better mobility.

And I don't understand at all why they are having such a hard time to normalize dps for PvE folks so that everyone has his 30k (not more and not less) dps build.

Its not just condi stats. The long list of nerfs directly affect power, cele, and support builds. And I agree with your second point, I really do not like that there is no compensation. I truly hate all necromancer weapons except GS which I unfortunately cannot use with Scourge. The only good thing about Scourge is the shade abilities which on their own are weak and cant kill anything unless spammed. This was always the problem with the spec, they encouraged a playstlye where you have to spam to kill anything then they nerf everything with no way to compensate.

It is sad when the best potential WvW damage builds for a supposedly condi spec...are now power builds. I do not complain often, XTD, you know that about me. But this has gotten ridiculous. I have absolutely no clue what to do with my guild's scourges now, after investing tons of gold into first Trailblazer, then Celestial. I was about to get them going Griever's, because that was where the biggest bang was more recently. But now, I have no clue. Even Blood Scourges are a waste at this point, and all our Apothecary sets of gear are going to collect dust. I am beyond frustrated now.

Make the shade skills all support/barrier style skills then redesign the elite to function as a giant damaging boon corrupting shade, something along the lines of a Winds of Disenchantment / Ghastly Breach fused together. Then remove WoD from warrior (because it's functionality fits better with scourge anyway). There is little point in having WoD and Ghastly breach exist together. Fuse them together, give it to the scourge as an elite and give the warrior a completely different re-designed elite.

@xivor.8754 said:It is sad when the best potential WvW damage builds for a supposedly condi spec...are now power builds. I do not complain often, XTD, you know that about me. But this has gotten ridiculous. I have absolutely no clue what to do with my guild's scourges now, after investing tons of gold into first Trailblazer, then Celestial. I was about to get them going Griever's, because that was where the biggest bang was more recently. But now, I have no clue. Even Blood Scourges are a waste at this point, and all our Apothecary sets of gear are going to collect dust. I am beyond frustrated now.

Heya Xivor long time no see :). I know you are very invested in builds, I see you post very often on metabattle and I can understand how frustrating it must be as a guild leader constantly having to create new group comps and the nightmare of regearing your guildies.

What bothers me about these nerfs, is that there was no consideration given whatsoever to how it would affect other playstyles. It has been a series of heavyhanded blanket nerfs that ruined one build after another. Heck support Scourge (which the kitten Spec was designed for) cant even function properly after the Sand Savant nerf. That trait is a must have because the base radius and 3 target limit of shades makes it impossible to hit anything in WvW. Combine that with the delay they implemented from a previous update and WvW is unplayable without Sand Savant.

This Dhuumfire nerf, the nerf to scepter which was already garbage just guts condi builds and makes cele builds pointless. Power Scourge does not have the same reliable damage or sustain, and weapon choices are lackluster. Staff is still garbage, cant use on downed players or siege, still slow and has high cooldowns.

On top of all the damage nerfs, they nerf boon corruption, increase lifeforce costs, nerf cleanses. All on a class that has little mobility and lacks any viable sustain skills.

Meanwhile what else did they do this update? They make invulnerability stop condition damage lol but do nothing to all those skills that grant invulnerability. So good luck fighting Spellbreakers which are already broken with the amount of sustain they have GG ANET.

Seriously just remake the entire spec at this point because its not worth playing anymore.

@X T D.6458 said:Meanwhile what else did they do this update? They make invulnerability stop condition damage lol but do nothing to all those skills that grant invulnerability. So good luck fighting Spellbreakers which are already broken with the amount of sustain they have GG ANET.

What do Invulnerabilities have to do with Spellbreaker? They have precisely 0 of those.There's exactly 6 skills scattered across 4 professions that have Invulnerability skills. Ele has half of them. Then there's engi, mesmer and guardian, and that's it.

@"xivor.8754" said:It is sad when the best potential WvW damage builds for a supposedly condi spec...are now power builds. I do not complain often, XTD, you know that about me. But this has gotten ridiculous. I have absolutely no clue what to do with my guild's scourges now, after investing tons of gold into first Trailblazer, then Celestial. I was about to get them going Griever's, because that was where the biggest bang was more recently. But now, I have no clue. Even Blood Scourges are a waste at this point, and all our Apothecary sets of gear are going to collect dust. I am beyond frustrated now.

How about something like this?: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAW3YnE9C10gt0AO9Cs9ilcBDKA0AWBUnh1QzSvw+YjsA-jVSBQBZU5BAuCAzY/h8dQAKpSQ9obAjKxQo6PL4BAQKArmsB-w

@Yannir.4132 said:

@"X T D.6458" said:Meanwhile what else did they do this update? They make invulnerability stop condition damage lol but do nothing to all those skills that grant invulnerability. So good luck fighting Spellbreakers which are already broken with the amount of sustain they have GG ANET.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Painhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defy_Pain_(warrior_trait)

Can be stacked together in duration for a base 8 seconds of invuln with a 60s cd, balance. Can also be traited to inc the duration to 5s each for a total of 10s.

@X T D.6458 said:

@Yannir.4132 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Meanwhile what else did they do this update? They make invulnerability stop condition damage lol but do nothing to all those skills that grant invulnerability. So good luck fighting Spellbreakers which are already broken with the amount of sustain they have GG ANET.

These are not Invulns. Neither is Rangers Signet of Stone. These skills are specific to power damage. See the little print that says CC and conditions still apply? That's the difference.

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"xivor.8754" said:It is sad when the best potential WvW damage builds for a supposedly condi spec...are now power builds. I do not complain often, XTD, you know that about me. But this has gotten ridiculous. I have absolutely no clue what to do with my guild's scourges now, after investing tons of gold into first Trailblazer, then Celestial. I was about to get them going Griever's, because that was where the biggest bang was more recently. But now, I have no clue. Even Blood Scourges are a waste at this point, and all our Apothecary sets of gear are going to collect dust. I am beyond frustrated now.

His point was that they are basically giving it the Reaper treatment when deathly chill was the meta. Reaper was always meant to be a power spec yet a condition build dominated it.

Just in case anyone was left wondering, the affected skills are:Mist Form, Vapor Form, Obsidian Flesh (Elementalist)Distortion (Mesmer)Elixir S (Engineer)Renewed Focus (Guardian)

This list does not include traits.

@Yannir.4132 said:Just in case anyone was left wondering, the affected skills are:Mist Form, Vapor Form, Obsidian Flesh (Elementalist)Distortion (Mesmer)Elixir S (Engineer)Renewed Focus (Guardian)

This list does not include traits.

You forgot elementalist's earth shield skill: Fortify

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Yannir.4132 said:Just in case anyone was left wondering, the affected skills are:Mist Form, Vapor Form, Obsidian Flesh (Elementalist)Distortion (Mesmer)Elixir S (Engineer)Renewed Focus (Guardian)

This list does not include traits.

Right, that's true. Always forget about that one. Seems to be a common mistake though. :lol:

@Yannir.4132 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Yannir.4132 said:Just in case anyone was left wondering, the affected skills are:Mist Form, Vapor Form, Obsidian Flesh (Elementalist)Distortion (Mesmer)Elixir S (Engineer)Renewed Focus (Guardian)

This list does not include traits.

Yeah. Mainly because nobody has really used Earth Shield. Ever.

They should just redesign it to be what they promised. A support class. It's ridiculous dps seemed like an accident anyways.

@X T D.6458 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"xivor.8754" said:It is sad when the best potential WvW damage builds for a supposedly condi spec...are now power builds. I do not complain often, XTD, you know that about me. But this has gotten ridiculous. I have absolutely no clue what to do with my guild's scourges now, after investing tons of gold into first Trailblazer, then Celestial. I was about to get them going Griever's, because that was where the biggest bang was more recently. But now, I have no clue. Even Blood Scourges are a waste at this point, and all our Apothecary sets of gear are going to collect dust. I am beyond frustrated now.

I always wondered why they actually put deathly chill in the spec like that, it was at odds with other traits and like you say it forced an unintended condition build to become the meta. The class clearly focused on raw power damage and disabling enemies with chill. If they wanted to allow you to further increase damage with chill over sustain (Blighter's Boon) and Shroud (Reaper's Onslaught), they should have done it another way, maybe with direct damage on chill application similar to how Terror works with fear.

@Remus Darkblight.1673 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"xivor.8754" said:It is sad when the best potential WvW damage builds for a supposedly condi spec...are now power builds. I do not complain often, XTD, you know that about me. But this has gotten ridiculous. I have absolutely no clue what to do with my guild's scourges now, after investing tons of gold into first Trailblazer, then Celestial. I was about to get them going Griever's, because that was where the biggest bang was more recently. But now, I have no clue. Even Blood Scourges are a waste at this point, and all our Apothecary sets of gear are going to collect dust. I am beyond frustrated now.

Deathly chill used to cause chills you apply to deal damage. Problem was your chills usually got overridden in pve, and people were crying op about it in pvphttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathly_Chill/history

@Sephylon.4938 said:

@Remus Darkblight.1673 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"xivor.8754" said:It is sad when the best potential WvW damage builds for a supposedly condi spec...are now power builds. I do not complain often, XTD, you know that about me. But this has gotten ridiculous. I have absolutely no clue what to do with my guild's scourges now, after investing tons of gold into first Trailblazer, then Celestial. I was about to get them going Griever's, because that was where the biggest bang was more recently. But now, I have no clue. Even Blood Scourges are a waste at this point, and all our Apothecary sets of gear are going to collect dust. I am beyond frustrated now.

I never noticed that, shows how much attention I paid on HoT release, single damage packet on application would have been the better option over applying bleeds. In my opinion anyway.

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:Tbh i wouldn't mind if that spec never happened. Only good thing about it is barriers and using them to give necro shield that doesn't deprive him of his utilities nor ability to be healed.

But other then that this is not a necro spec using shades. It's shade spec with necro taked on there somewhere. core necro is...ok it's kitten. But still a necro. Reaper is fun, with tons of builds and engaging playstyle. Scourge is more boring then a warrior! And when i think something is more boring the a warrior, you know it's kitten!

The way reaper plays and acts is more like a bad warrior then a scourge. Scourge is most similar to Engineer in terms of play style. Also, if you played GW1 for any extended period of time, Which I most certainly did, Necromancer was far more similar to scourge in GW2 then core necromancer or reaper in GW2. In fact I DESPISE shroud for that very reason. Its Nothing like what a necromancer should be. You could tack on that power shield mechanic necro has now onto most other profession and it would work. Just call it something else and give it a different energy mechanic. Warrior, call it Warrior's Fervor. Engineer call it a power barrier. Revenant, call it mist cloak. So on and so on. The mechanic of death shroud is not unique to GW2. Its been around and its been called by barrier, power shield among other names. And its a mechanic most associated with Brawler and technical classes. The only unique aspect to GW2 on this is that the necromancer just so happens to be the class that's cursed to have this god awful mechanic.

@KrHome.1920 said:I appreciate that the spec is weakened in its overperforming aspects which are trailblazer/dire and impact when firebrand babysitted.

I do not appreciate that the spec does not get any compensations - e.g. increased direct damage coefficents on shade-, torch- and punishment-skills or better mobility.

And I don't understand at all why they are having such a hard time to normalize dps for PvE folks so that everyone has his 30k (not more and not less) dps build.

But this is the crux of the matter. Scourge OP when babysat by a support FB, because it relies on that FB to survive.

Honestly? I love the scourge as an effective (For a Necro) "Shroud-Free" Necromancer. If you prefer the core necromancer playstyle, more power to you. But I love the way Scourge allows me to use my Life Force almost on-demand instead of dealing with the restrictions of the Death/Reaper shroud.

Also - Torch is a kickkitten weapon.

@Yannir.4132 said:There's exactly 6 skills scattered across 4 professions that have Invulnerability skills. Ele has half of them. Then there's engi, mesmer and guardian, and that's it.Yes and I am pretty sure this change has its origin in engineer player complaints about the 25% elexir s autoproc being a death sentence when fighting a condi build.

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Yannir.4132 said:There's exactly 6 skills scattered across 4 professions that have Invulnerability skills. Ele has half of them. Then there's engi, mesmer and guardian, and that's it.Yes and I am pretty sure this change has its origin in engineer player complaints about the 25% elexir s autoproc being a death sentence when fighting a condi build.

Probably. But this functionality probably should've been there in the first place.