Do you think Elementalist class "balancing" is justified? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Do you think Elementalist class "balancing" is justified?

Hello everyone!
Im making this poll to see if Anet is doing what the community thinks its right or what they think its better for the class.
I want to see how many people agree with me that it shouldnt be bottom dps and how many want it burried.

Do you think Elementalist class "balancing" is justified? 280 votes

Yes
19%
Autumn.8043Kam.4092Arzurag.7506derd.6413Aktium.9506Preyar.6783TexZero.7910Sigmoid.7082Zaraki.5784Altosk.8492Belghar.3024XxsdgxX.8109Xyonon.3987spiritualabyss.7016Warscythes.9307Threather.9354MachineManXX.9746Anzriel.1398Crossroads.5174Dadnir.5038 54 votes
No
75%
Vissarion.6509maddoctor.2738MaxwellM.2075Jski.6180Alexandar.5698steve.2945Windfire.9726Mejiora.9584Abelisk.4527Glider.5792Dante.1763BunjiKugashira.9754Narthex.3901XenesisII.1540Durzlla.6295Mea.5491Dravis.7681cgMatt.5162Finngarad.9746Axarion.3098 212 votes
It's perfect now
5%
TheSlothArmada.6709Geisterlicht.6083TwiceDead.1963Alek Seven.2374Knox.8962welns.3245Gemnaid.4219Pansoul.9436Lexi.1398Matiole.6857Scud.5067Riranor.6315King Nutella.4570Sicycle.2453 14 votes
<13

Comments

  • Luca.4670Luca.4670 Member ✭✭
    No

    @flarezi.9381 said:
    No. Traits are bad, weapon skills are bad, utilitys are meh with long cooldowns. With every single update they seem to take that 1 build or thing that we can barely survive in easiest situations (nothing else left than our damage) and nerf it. I don't just undestand why they keep doing it. Why the hate? Is there that one ele player somewhere who makes this abomination somehow overperfom SO amaizingly well that we all must be nerfed in Every. Single. "Balance". Update? Would really like to undestand. I'm sorry for long rant I have nothing but my anger left, since they nerfed everything else.

    ^ This +1 for you sir. First fa weaver joke/meme nerf now staff ele useless unecessary bad nerf, really this is just very sad but we should keep complaining cause it seems its the way to push balance changes is the costant crybaby over the forum.

  • Conqueror.3682Conqueror.3682 Member ✭✭✭

    I dont know, for me i dont care about staff and im in favor of nerfing it, but also nerfing the other profesions in the top.

    I want buffs for sword dps, but these changes, while being good for sword, i dont think are strong enough to make sword a good election for raids or fractals.

    Fall down seven times, get up eight.

  • No

    No, adding damage reduction per hit per enemy is punishing for players. I wouldn't have had a problem with the Lava Font change if the other skills weren't changed, but with these changes, then it's a problem.

  • No

    We needed some kind of nerf but all those changes seem too much. It seems like devs don't have a clue of what they are doing. Anet is having a really hard time balancing things. I love guild wars 2, but it's by far the worst game in terms of balancing

  • Guizao.4167Guizao.4167 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    @Naustis.8510 said:
    Perfect patch. They bring down Ele from being OP to be on pair with other classes. At least here Anet devs made a good decision :)

    PS. To people who are saying Ele is garbage now. You just were nerfed to the point where you don't outdps 2nd best spec by 20-30% ;) weaver is still fine with 37k dps

    Ha, sorry if an ele took your spot in raid ;)

  • Guizao.4167Guizao.4167 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    @Unknown.3976 said:
    Welcome, Eles, u have joined others in the "My class staff wpn is useless" club. Mes, necro, guards send their regards. Once Anet apply the changes, they rarely revert on their decisions.

    ppl calling out for nerfs should be careful. Tempest was a victim of such a call as well, and the community didn't learn. "Tempest does everything, DPS, support ! Nerf it !", they cried And now Tempest isn't meta in anything.

    ArenaNet says: we're giving players what they want ;) (or what they ask for, but nobody really asked for a staff and trait nerfs...)

  • Guizao.4167Guizao.4167 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Naustis.8510 said:
    Perfect patch. They bring down Ele from being OP to be on pair with other classes. At least here Anet devs made a good decision :)

    PS. To people who are saying Ele is garbage now. You just were nerfed to the point where you don't outdps 2nd best spec by 20-30% ;) weaver is still fine with 37k dps

    then give us the vitality, condi cleanse, heal, stability, block, perma evade, perma stealth, perma speed of the other classes...

    Give us everything mentioned above plus the ability to dish considerable damage even having everything...

  • Dahir.4158Dahir.4158 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    We asked for staff BUFFS on the forums, but get nerfs instead. Nice :)

    Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2018
    No

    Not even close due to anet spiting skills and then recombining them but with only one game type balancing in mind. At this point its not even balancing any more this torlling.

    Maybe Anet has a realty problem with there dev. and only a few simply forgot there words where not hidden though in game changes.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No

    @Bearbrunt.4196 said:
    While I don't want ele dps "buried," I think the changes were justified. I'm all for closing the longstanding damage gaps between overperforming/underperforming classes and leveling out the playing field (for all classes).

    In some past cases, ele has been able to pull up to 50% more dps than the most underperforming class. While a reasonable argument can be made for ele to do more damage than other classes, I don't think it can be given as much credence when they've for so long, easily been able to outperform other classes by a such a huge margin. At times (and even now, looking at the numbers post nerf) they're able to consistently pull 25-40% more damage than other underperforming classes/builds.

    Ele (and a couple other classes) have had too much damage potential for a long time. Either that, or underperforming classes have had far too little damage potential. Honestly, I think there is too much damage in the game to begin with, so I'm all for scaling the top-end back (not just eles).

    For the record, I really don't think this poll is going to be impartial, since the majority of the users that browse this section of the forum are ele goons.

    Well when the last time you saw a dev. here there good reason for things to be goonly here.

    To have your skill split to make it work in pve and pvp only to have it put put back together to only have it balanced for pve is unforgettable on its own but the countless other effects and skills lost due to this lack of skill split balancing i will never for give anet for what they did to GoEP and there more from different ppl.

    The balancing justification dose not even come close to the wrong done to ele in both game types for the cost of the other game type (pve and pvp).

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Guizao.4167Guizao.4167 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    @Dahir.4158 said:
    We asked for staff BUFFS on the forums, but get nerfs instead. Nice :)

    I kept asking for it and people always kept telling me that it's a waste of time because staff wep is terrible and it won't ever work in pvp and the sort of things. Well, I guess those people got what they wanted.

  • It's perfect now

    Im so happy with this patch and hope this can stay for a while. After all ele was top dps for years...
    Now other classes have a chance to become played and ele burst is still the strongest. Its perfect :)

  • Celtus.8456Celtus.8456 Member ✭✭

    Seems like the recurring strategy is to nerf damage (including for core skills!), and toss in a side of buffs for sword ele (they got tired of working on shatterstone after all these years). Since you released PoF and sword weaver...is your vision only to have eles playing this spec? As it appears that they fare the best each patch while the rest of the profession mostly loses out.

    And you keep tweaking the sword weaver dual skills, but rarely the weaver dual skills for the other weapons. Arguably the sword ones shipped in the most finished state, and keep getting moreso. On many of the weapons, the dual attacks just feel like filler (looking at just about every staff skill except piledriver).

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2018
    Yes

    PvE: condi elementalists (any spec) will make a come back
    PvP/WvW: elementalist can now relieve a bit more condi pressure and gained a bit of burst on "impact" skills.

    To be honest, almost all professions took the dps nerfbat with this patch. Elementalist traded power sustain damage for power burst. The logic answer will be to dust off the old condi build that the community will surprisingly found to be effective and have more room for equiping invuln skills that now also mitigate condi damages. Tempest build will see more love from the players because the gap with weaver have been closed quite a bit and it's less difficult to play.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2018
    No

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    PvE: condi elementalists (any spec) will make a come back

    No they won't. There's no reason to pick this over a better performing and much safer Mirage or a Deadeye. It is still "staff or go home", except now it's more like "why don't you just go home?". In theory staff can pull some competitive dps, but it is so much extra effort for no extra reward there's really no point in even trying.

  • Dahir.4158Dahir.4158 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    PvE: condi elementalists (any spec) will make a come back
    PvP/WvW: elementalist can now relieve a bit more condi pressure and gained a bit of burst on "impact" skills.

    To be honest, almost all professions took the dps nerfbat with this patch. Elementalist traded power sustain damage for power burst. The logic answer will be to dust off the old condi build that the community will surprisingly found to be effective and have more room for equiping invuln skills that now also mitigate condi damages. Tempest build will see more love from the players because the gap with weaver have been closed quite a bit and it's less difficult to play.

    No thanks.

    Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect

  • Solidaris.5423Solidaris.5423 Member ✭✭✭

    @Guizao.4167 said:

    @Naustis.8510 said:
    Perfect patch. They bring down Ele from being OP to be on pair with other classes. At least here Anet devs made a good decision :)

    PS. To people who are saying Ele is garbage now. You just were nerfed to the point where you don't outdps 2nd best spec by 20-30% ;) weaver is still fine with 37k dps

    Ha, sorry if an ele took your spot in raid ;)

    Ele was taking everyone's spot in raid. There was not a single reason to take other dps classes. Now, when you were pulled back to the line it may change ;)

    everyone's?
    So Elementalist took the spot from healer Druids and Support Chronos? :D
    Let's be honest Elementalist is squishy and right now only used for DPS and weakening that will make people angry. At least give us the chance to survive more.
    By the way why shouldn't we bring Druid healing or Chrono boon sharing on pair with other classes as well then? I want to support as Tempest already without getting called names for it X)

    To the topic: Sorry but the poll is pretty pointless because of course the majority will vote for no because this is the Elementalist sub-forum.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2018
    No

    They didn't buff shatterstone!

    Seriously, though, they actually nerfed ele in PVP. Some random unused or useless skills were buffed, but a couple of skills can't be used while kiting anymore, which was actually helpful. Remember when they said they'd have a "close look on how ele performs"? Seems like we were too stronk. Very poor decisions.

    €: The invul buff is also not helpfull at all.

  • Nath Forge Tempete.1645Nath Forge Tempete.1645 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2018
    No

    Pve wise : I didn't want a nerf on staff but a full rework of the skills and mechanics. Okay ele was top dps .... but there's plenty of downsides

    • Low HP
    • Long delay for max burst dmg
      • Rotation is harder to complete if not stationnary
    • Enormous loss of dmg if the target moves.
    • You getting kicked if not above other dps.
    • Almost useless in fractals (at least not optimum)

    PvP wise : I was expecting some adjustement on sword since they talk about it and the changes were about more ticks on AOE ... Like ... you don't understand why ele has so few dmg in pvp right? cause these changes won't help overall dmg unless you have a duo Ranger that can spam immob.

    Sheering edge and natural frenzy changes also doesn't help at all while being chased (chill apply while running)

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No

    @Naustis.8510 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Naustis.8510 said:
    Perfect patch. They bring down Ele from being OP to be on pair with other classes. At least here Anet devs made a good decision :)

    PS. To people who are saying Ele is garbage now. You just were nerfed to the point where you don't outdps 2nd best spec by 20-30% ;) weaver is still fine with 37k dps

    It would be perfect if the other classes required the same amount of effort to be on par, not 3 times less.

    Weaver didn't require that much more efford than other classes to beat them in dps. You could pull dps on pair with other classes just by using lava font / hammer / staff5. And best weavers were miles ahead of other classes. That is not what you call balance. Ele players are such a snowflakes. You're still on the top, just not the undisputed rank1. More changes like that please.

    That's outright untrue. Using LF/MS/hammer will only let you outdps really bad players, nothing more. The problem is, by reducing the advantage you could theoretically get with an ele, you're effectively shutting the average players out of the class. They'll be just bad. Because the rotation is that much more demanding and it gives that much more chances for mistakes. Mistakes which they'll make, and lose a lot of dps as a result. Meanwhile the newest FOTM no-brain builds will press skills off cooldown and outdamage them while munching popcorn and browsing facebook on their second monitor. Great reward for actually trying to play the game, right?

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No

    @Alexxx.4257 said:
    Ele was really good for PvE due to the fact that mobs don't move. If Weavers can get the entire combo down on someone it's huge dps, and a I don't disagree that this kind of deserves a nerf, seeing as top 3 damage spells are aoes.

    I disagree. In order to outdamage good players, you'd have to be really good yourself. You'd always need to put more effort, so it is only normal to be better rewarded for it. Difference now is, if you want to outdamage good players on other classes you need to be stellar. And also you're putting the same effort but you're no longer getting rewarded for it. Instead, the game tells you "you can do the same with 1/3 of the effort".

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No

    @Naustis.8510 said:
    Ele was taking everyone's spot in raid. There was not a single reason to take other dps classes. Now, when you were pulled back to the line it may change ;)

    Let me tell you a secret: this game doesn't only have Raids. Now that that's out of the way I'm gonna give you a challenge. Take any "meta" DPS build and make ZERO changes to it and go fight Joko in episode 3. Or because Joko is at the end of the story, fight Istari instead (the first boss) it takes 3 minutes to get to her with a new character.
    Tell me the results.

  • @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Alexxx.4257 said:
    Ele was really good for PvE due to the fact that mobs don't move. If Weavers can get the entire combo down on someone it's huge dps, and a I don't disagree that this kind of deserves a nerf, seeing as top 3 damage spells are aoes.

    I disagree. In order to outdamage good players, you'd have to be really good yourself. You'd always need to put more effort, so it is only normal to be better rewarded for it. Difference now is, if you want to outdamage good players on other classes you need to be stellar. And also you're putting the same effort but you're no longer getting rewarded for it. Instead, the game tells you "you can do the same with 1/3 of the effort".

    Now, yes. Before the patch you did huge dps with only meteor, lava and fire earth 3 you didnt need to cast anything else on a target that doesn't move. Of course you can deal plenty more damage using a complex rotation which actually makes the profession good. But for that you actually need fingers and anet does not want a profession that requires those.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Irokou.3215 said:
    It is simply bad. Anet balancing is just utterly bewildering. Every balance patch there are at last two classes that miss the mark COMPLETELY and it is enough to make me lose faith.

    And one of them is always necro? Well that's what it feels like. But i feel sorry for you. I think after last patch, ele was fine. Not overdoing it by far, but a solid state.
    I don't know Eles dmg exactly right now, but i heard that staff is now pretty much useless.

    I hope we will get something back next balance patch (necro and ele)

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No

    @Alexxx.4257 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Alexxx.4257 said:
    Ele was really good for PvE due to the fact that mobs don't move. If Weavers can get the entire combo down on someone it's huge dps, and a I don't disagree that this kind of deserves a nerf, seeing as top 3 damage spells are aoes.

    I disagree. In order to outdamage good players, you'd have to be really good yourself. You'd always need to put more effort, so it is only normal to be better rewarded for it. Difference now is, if you want to outdamage good players on other classes you need to be stellar. And also you're putting the same effort but you're no longer getting rewarded for it. Instead, the game tells you "you can do the same with 1/3 of the effort".

    Now, yes. Before the patch you did huge dps with only meteor, lava and fire earth 3 you didnt need to cast anything else on a target that doesn't move. Of course you can deal plenty more damage using a complex rotation which actually makes the profession good. But for that you actually need fingers and anet does not want a profession that requires those.

    If you didn't do your complex rotation you'd end up outdpsing only the really, really bad players.

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    Let me show you how balancing team works on elementalist from the inside.

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons

  • No

    I said no but its all depends on the benchmarks if it is 38k and more everything is okay.(with a new built)
    What also is good they removed the internal cooldown of the icebow which should make it again the summoning weapon to go. They also undone the puls reducing of the fire overload of the Tempest built.(Basically undone 2 nerfs from previous patches)

    About the changes of the aoes when they are like the on metorshower then the overall dmg shouldn't go down at least this which I hope for. The trait change really hurt and gives the impression ele should form now on built in more vitality in their gear so that the possible nerf is justified.

    What I wanted to have was for the tempest bigger range for the fire overload and a OP wish would have been longer up time for the boons we get from it which would have make it better in wvw and as a support class.

    I kinda got this but with an extreme twists with the new update you can say this wasn't what I wished for.

    About the last few balancing changes I got that they want to put pressure on the meta setup of teams and raids by first nerving the druid then the chrono. Main target of this is making other built more accepted as alternative in those team setups.

    Problem with the elementist is the class was since vanilla one of the major dmg dealers with the price of low health points I would say this is in most MMO this way with mages.

    What also changed or changing how the changes let GW2 more and more feel like an hack&slay with this the spike on the DPS got higher because of the 60% more ot the aoes with the first hit

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:
    I said no but its all depends on the benchmarks if it is 38k and more everything is okay.(with a new built)

    Meh. 38k on huge hitbox and 10 boons. It's as if Roul is deliberately trying to ruin ele by adding more and more favorable conditions when benchmarking.
    Also, getting rid of Air in the rotation is pretty sad.

  • Dravis.7681Dravis.7681 Member ✭✭
    edited July 11, 2018
    No

    2,560 of my 2,747 GW2 hours have been spent playing Ele/Temp/Weaver so yeah... Not real happy. Tried raiding last night and my dps was embarrassing. I agree that lava font needed a nerf cause it was basically doing the same dps as meteor shower which is pretty silly but did we have to change the cooldown and screw up everyone's rotation in the process? I don't get this front loading of dmg on the AoE's at all... Never seen anything like that in any other game I've ever played. It's so counter intuitive. Would make more sense to change meteor shower to "meteor" and just have one huge meteor fall if you want all the damage up front. I dunno... whatever... Pointless to argue about it cause I know they won't change it anyway... Just venting.

    Suppose it frees up some time to check out some other games I've been putting off, so at least there's that.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No

    @Dravis.7681 said:
    2,560 of my 2,747 GW2 hours have been spent playing Ele/Temp/Weaver so yeah... Not real happy. Tried raiding last night and my dps was embarrassing. I agree that lava font needed a nerf cause it was basically doing the same dps as meteor shower which is pretty silly but did we have to change the cooldown and screw up everyone's rotation in the process? I don't get this front loading of dmg on the AoE's at all... Never seen anything like that in any other game I've ever played. It's so counter intuitive. Would make more sense to change meteor shower to "meteor" and just have one huge meteor fall if you want all the damage up front. I dunno... whatever... Pointless to argue about it cause I know they won't change it anyway... Just venting.

    Suppose it frees up some time to check out some other games I've been putting off, so at least there's that.

    Elemental Attunement: Fixed a bug in which the regeneration boon was applied to allies when an elementalist attuned to water for a second time.

    Another nerf this time a bug?

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • No

    @Bearbrunt.4196 said:
    While I don't want ele dps "buried," I think the changes were justified. I'm all for closing the longstanding damage gaps between overperforming/underperforming classes and leveling out the playing field (for all classes).

    In some past cases, ele has been able to pull up to 50% more dps than the most underperforming class. While a reasonable argument can be made for ele to do more damage than other classes, I don't think it can be given as much credence when they've for so long, easily been able to outperform other classes by a such a huge margin. At times (and even now, looking at the numbers post nerf) they're able to consistently pull 25-40% more damage than other underperforming classes/builds.

    Ele (and a couple other classes) have had too much damage potential for a long time. Either that, or underperforming classes have had far too little damage potential. Honestly, I think there is too much damage in the game to begin with, so I'm all for scaling the top-end back (not just eles).

    For the record, I really don't think this poll is going to be impartial, since the majority of the users that browse this section of the forum are ele goons.

    what is wrong with being top dps by a large margin, if other classes have better heals, better condi cleanse, better condi damage, easier condi application, better mobility and stealth?

    Seriously? If you don't want ele be top dps by a margin, fine. But then give us all the nice stuff the other classes have ele is lacking.

    That would be 'balancing'.

    But as long as mirages can hit you for 24k out of nowhere and deadeyes have their permastealth 15k attacks, you can hardly complain about ele dps being too high.

    In fact, these two classes give you all the reason why a single ms hit should take out any mirage, thief or necro in the field.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.