Mixed Opinions on Toss Elixir U

Pros of Changes:

1. Quickness for 5s (+Vigor for 2s with Optimized Activation ) for yourself and allies
2. Stun Break for Allies

Pros of Previous:

1. • Vigor for 2s with Optimized Activation
2. Random spells (12s) - very useful combo fields and both were essentially projectile counters:
   • Smoke Screen — blinds foes, creates a smoke field, and destroys projectiles -or-
   • Wall of Reflection — creates a light field and reflect projectiles

Both iterations have value in any gamemode:

• Previous - Used in PvP/WvW for it's anti-projectile benefits and combo field usage. Used in niche cases in open world PvE to reflect/stealth.
• New - Very supportive - Stunbreak in PvP/WvW is valuable (but somewhat hard to coordinate); Quickness - no real downside.

My issue is, the previous iteration has been pretty valuable and realistically I don't expect the changes to really change the number of people to use Elixir U. While it's more consistent with the other "Toss" Elixir skills, I'm surprised the previous iteration of having random spells warranted any concern. I personally trusted it more than any other reflect Engi has...or when it was needed to drop a clutch Smoke Screen to stealth the myself or the team out of a sticky situation or a quick cleanse. Heck, I can't tell you how many Deadeyes or P/P Thieves killed themselves because of the Wall of Reflection. You don't really get that from the other dedicated Engi skills that "should" do the same (especially as Core).

I love to see the "idea" of the random spell come back in some other way for Engi (maybe an new Elixir).

I really want the old Toss Elixir U back, don't like this change at all :/. The old smoke field and wall of reflection was just really good but most importantly FUN to use. This new quickness BS is just pure meh. Anet screwed up on this one.

Thing is, the pattern of toss elixir u makes it hard to land on blobs of people. Ideally, in a wave of people perfectly formed, it woul work fine.

New elixir U toss is absolute garbage vs old utility. I want to know which moron in dev team had idea to change it. For the love of god revert it back and maybe just maybe start testing new skills in wvw and pvp before you do any dumb changes that nobody wanted.

Add me to the list of disappointed engineers with that change. I loved the old Toss Elixir U and always found some reasons to slot it in my bar while doing my T4. Now I will never use it again.

I will add my voice to this as well. I'm very fond of Elixir U. I use it pretty much all the time because I love the extra quickness and stun break, and more so Toss Elixir U for reflects or projectile blocks, which is absolutely paramount for survival. This is a straight up downgrade that's going to expose the engineer heavily. I appreciate Anet removing the RNG factor from elixirs, but modifying the way the elixirs work I believe was stepping over the line.

Edit: I would be OK with Toss Elixir U always being a smoke field or reflect field on a slightly lower up-time, like what they did with the other elixirs. I think that would be an OK compromise for now.

They just break Elixir U. I dont really bother any other change (almost no buff to condi damage and fee meh changes, at least as a pvp/wvw ... maybe change something on PVE dunno)

Elixir U was perfect as it was.... Im really disappointed with this change, specially with the Toss elixir change.Now, the skill is almost redundant in both activations, nothing new on the table between them.

Like someone said before, if they want to remove the random component, make Toss elixir an smoke or reflection wall, or shorter version of them.... but remove one of our few defences against ranged attacks (when engi have only melee o mid-range damage) can't be OK, specially for Scrapper.

Elixir X still random? 8|

Duplicated post ... 8(

I'm okay with the change, seems they are gearing elixirs more towards a support utility for the people around you/group utility in general, which is fine. Engi doesn't lack projectile hate to begin with too.

While i do not like that it takes away our projectile hate i gotta say that right now it's really fun to run around with Kinetic battery and elexir U, the amount of quickness you get is really awesome.

@"LUST.7241" said:Pros of Changes:

1. Quickness for 5s (+Vigor for 2s with Optimized Activation ) for yourself and allies
2. Stun Break for Allies

Pros of Previous:

1. • Vigor for 2s with Optimized Activation
2. Random spells (12s) - very useful combo fields and both were essentially projectile counters:
   • Smoke Screen — blinds foes, creates a smoke field, and destroys projectiles -or-
   • Wall of Reflection — creates a light field and reflect projectiles

Both iterations have value in any gamemode:

• Previous - Used in PvP/WvW for it's anti-projectile benefits and combo field usage. Used in niche cases in open world PvE to reflect/stealth.
• New - Very supportive - Stunbreak in PvP/WvW is valuable (but somewhat hard to coordinate); Quickness - no real downside.

My issue is, the previous iteration has been pretty valuable and realistically I don't expect the changes to really change the number of people to use Elixir U. While it's more consistent with the other "Toss" Elixir skills, I'm surprised the previous iteration of having random spells warranted any concern. I personally trusted it more than any other reflect Engi has...or when it was needed to drop a clutch Smoke Screen to stealth the myself or the team out of a sticky situation or a quick cleanse. Heck, I can't tell you how many Deadeyes or P/P Thieves killed themselves because of the Wall of Reflection. You don't really get that from the other dedicated Engi skills that "should" do the same (especially as Core).

I love to see the "idea" of the random spell come back in some other way for Engi (maybe an new Elixir).

The old version was more useful, period, and this is functionally a nerf, making Elixir U more niche. While the extra quickness is nice, the projectile reflect/destruction was way more valuable amd the potential combo fields were nice additions for clever engineers (blasting light for cleanse, blasting/leaping shadow for stealth). The AoE stunbreak is exceedingly niche, so the throw skill will almost exclusively be used for quickness uptime.

I have no reason to explain why but I will say this. To the DEV who changed TOSS ELIXIR U.. God bless you so much. I am the happiest GW2 player alive today. Never change it back. Please. Never.

I love the change made to Elixir U and Toss Elixir U. I'll miss the random smoke or reflect walls but I can accept the new change.

I remembered it made a smoke wall or something but I never knew it blocked / reflected projectile. That is so useful for wvw.

I think the new elixir toss is not to bed but I wish it gave quickness and something else.. like barrier aegis or more stability.

Engineer already competes with guardian and mesmer for boons and damage for other classes.

Engineer is in an ok spot but not very useful.

I could almost believe someone at Anet has made a mistake and accidentally removed the projectile defence from Toss Elixir U. The lack of explicitly mentioning this CRUCIAL change in the patchnotes lends at least a little credence to my musings.

Strangely, but perhaps predictably, the underwater version of Toss Elixir U is still the RNG wall.

@Vagrant.7206 said:The old version was more useful, period, and this is functionally a nerf, making Elixir U more niche. While the extra quickness is nice, the projectile reflect/destruction was way more valuable amd the potential combo fields were nice additions for clever engineers (blasting light for cleanse, blasting/leaping shadow for stealth). The AoE stunbreak is exceedingly niche, so the throw skill will almost exclusively be used for quickness uptime.

Pretty much this.Before we had:

• Projectile hate which is very much needed when you're playing melee. (Don't think of this only as stopping some ranger from barraging you, stopping siege from being disabled or even stomping some classes made toss elixir U extremely useful and added a lot of utility in team play)
• Combo field adding another layer of complexity and utility to you and your allies.

Now we have:

• AoE quickness (quickness itself is really strong)
• AoE stunbreaker which will most likely never work because it requires extremely specific moments where all planets align for it to be really useful.

The time it takes for you to toss it in the direction of your ally, finish the cast, let the projectile to travel, hope the projectile is not destroyed by someone then hit the target means the stun / daze probably is over already because in a pvp/wvw scenario your allies tend to have stunbreakers and stability themselves.Even necros which can be turned into ping pong balls in a fight tend to have a couple stunbreakers, I simply cannot see this being used for anything other than aoe quickness which to be fair with anet balance guys, it's a very powerful boon.

"The old version was more useful, period, and this is functionally a nerf, making Elixir U more niche. While the extra quickness is nice, the projectile reflect/destruction was way more valuable amd the potential combo fields were nice additions for clever engineers (blasting light for cleanse, blasting/leaping shadow for stealth). The AoE stunbreak is exceedingly niche, so the throw skill will almost exclusively be used for quickness uptime."TOTALLY RIGHT. Anet clearly is wrong here. The old skill was usefull and rlly creative. I was a fan of turn to stealth with rocket boots. One of very few defenses, now we are prey to deadeyes. Clap clap Anet.....

IMO they should bring back the wall reflect and smoke utilities as solid, non rng skills.

MAKE ELIXIRS GREAT AGAIN. BUILD A WALL... A REFLECT WALL... ?

Seriously though, as a player who has prayed for an uplift to elixirs for some time, I'm VERY happy with the change to elixir U. Both tool belt and utility.

One less rng skill.

I just wish they would have made Napalm block projectiles since removed the walls from elixir u.

Dev who "fixed" Elixer U was a Ranger. Nuff Said

I can't speak for PvP or WvW players, even if this looks more like a loss than a win for you guys, but PvE speaking the tossU skill is still uninteresting ~

Before the change, it had some niche utility. The wall could be interesting on some bosses in fractal like Uncategorized.However its random nature between reflect and block made it unusable in raid ~As it is right now it still has not much of a use. Admitting that you are using elixirs there's a good chance that you're healer, if not, I'm not sure why you have elixirs in your build. The stunbreak is not nearly as good as the Blast Gyro's belt skill which is on way lower cooldown, can be used while being stunned yourself and even grants super-speed to allow you and yoru allies to reposition faster. An interesting factor could have been the amount of quickness it gives, but 10s of said boon with max concentration for a based 40s cooldown, 27s at best with talents is pretty underwhelming, just like for turret boons.

I guess that generally speaking it removes a funny skill from the crazy alchemist archetype engineers have in GW2 for something rather basic ~

Alchemy trait line gives vigor on swiftness gain which is great for holos. A free condi clear, 16% boon duration increase and boons on 75% which had lower cool down with HGH. Combined with tools this gave us a 25 second stun break with elixir gun. The 14 second wall every 30 to combat range is very nice to have regardless if it is a block or reflect, the fact was also a potentially useful field was just a bonus. That was a lot of utility for 1 slot. I mostly play WvW and PVP, so it may be different for you.

As an engi main (PvE, PvP, and WvW) I wanted to put my two cents in here too.

I like the change to the actual utility skill— adding stability is great, and the vigor never hurts. But I'd easily give that up just to have them revert the toolbelt toss. I used Elixir U in all of my PvP/WvW builds specifically for the wall it produced; it made engi one of the most consistent classes to be able to counter projectiles (especially when used in any build using shield).

As others have pointed out, the new toss is not even great from a PvE perspective, and from a PvP/WvW perspective, you won't reliably be able to break your allies' stuns using it, as it has a cast time and a travel time (compare this to other allied-stun-breaking effects like Druid's glyph of equality or Firebrand's elite mantra). And as it's not a personal stun break, it doesn't really give any utility to the user in that regard— about the only use is to use it aggressively for the quickness.

It outright feels like a nerf to all of my PvP/WvW builds (especially with the sudden increase in deadeyes...), but was touted as a minor change to remove their "randomness". I hope that anet can consider reverting this change— I want my wall back :'(.

I think the best course of action (if a new Elixir to bring back the Smoke Screen/Wall RNG we love isn't considered) is to bring back the old Toss Elixir U. Elixir U can remain the same, but simply just effect those around you and a slight increase to the Quickness effect--essentially that's what the new Toss Elixir U does anyway.

Like @revolucion.3864 mentioned, the old iteration of Toss Elixir U is still available underwater...so it's kind of silly to have it enabled underwater when it's used a lot more on land.