Weaver Stealth Nerf

Anet, I have lost count of how many times I've had to come here to state that you shouldn't stealth nerf classes and neglect to leave crucial information in patch notes in order to carefully avoid criticism or .. I dunno why..Always tell people when you are nerfing them, please.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_AttunementElemental Attunement was nerfed FAR heavier than patch notes stated.

"Profession SkillsElementalistElemental Attunement: Fixed a bug in which the regeneration boon was applied to allies when an elementalist attuned to water for a second time."

Nope. You removed the boon from ALL double attuning instead of just regeneration. State it in the patch notes when you nerf us so people can react to it.

I wanted to clarify that this nerf applied to swiftness too, so no swiftness stacking anymore.This is an epic nerf, especially in WvW or anyplace where you have to run alot. Even with our swiftness trait many classes outran us before this. Now? Oh well.I wanted to clarify that this also means we cannot get the condition removal from the healing also.. which is also an epic nerf. Isn't the fact we have to stop attacking and use obvious stuff and lock ourselves into things for a while to clear already enough of a trade-off?Same for protection and might. So yeah, It wasn't just us not getting regen from hitting the attunement again.

Weaver has to actually press buttons to win a fight. While risking being interrupted constantly and planning ahead and locking itself into rotations. Are you seriously just wanting us to go spellbreaker or whatever other braindead stuff and press less buttons to get the same results?

I'm sorry but the nerf isn't justified. Especially the swiftness was a huge quality of life thing.I get that the tooltip was wrong, but maybe the solution was to just remove the tooltip and let us keep our buffs since we already aren't particularly meta and to be strong we actually have to press buttons. While thinking about those buttons far in advance of most classes. Many more buttons than most classes, in fact. Effort should be rewarded, I dunno, at some point in this game.

It annoys me greatly realizing that when I swap to another class I get similar results from far less effort and we still get nerfs on weaver.

This trait was one of the things that made weaver satisfying. Being able to get these boons twice was part of the incentive of using weaver and needing to attune more often. Without it, the class feels a bit hollow. Thanks for balancing the life out of the bloody class. No fun allowed.

Point:"In addition to these changes, we’ve also increased some of the damage of the weaver’s sword skill, which we felt wasn’t doing enough for the close-range risk that it carried."

Or maybe, we needed some clears so we could clear some of the -unavoidable- conditions we'd get when we enter the opponents 30 cancer circles and some swiftness so we could actually -enter- close-range due to the billions of mobility skills on most everything these days and their ability to do STUPID amounts of damage from maximum range.

they obviously don't want you to double attune so they can keep buffing double attuned #3 skills and say they buffed you while they actually want to nerf you haha

Oh no... I didn't even see this yet. Why, just why? When you don't want us to double attune, why do they even buff double atuunement skills like cauterizing strike...? I just don't get any of the changes.

Unfortunately I am not behind my computer to test this but if that is correct and if it's not a bug introduced with the patch, this is seriously wrong.The Swiftness and Might buffs are stackable buffs, it's the whole point behind their effectiveness. Why on earth would they limit the source of a stackable buff to only one stack??When you get several players blasting a fire field, are they going to prevent Might to stack more than once if one player uses the same blast source than another?I am talking about Might but I agree with the OP that the nerf to Swiftess stacking for ele when roaming in WvW for example is really discouraging.I'd be interested to know if Unhindered Combatant (from Daredevil trait line, provides Swiftness on dodge) got the same treatment.

earth didnt proged prot for a second time since pof. either earth prog was wrong or the other 3 atunements were.

@Sahfur.5612 said:This is an epic nerf, especially in WvW or anyplace where you have to run alot. Even with our swiftness trait many classes outran us before this. Now? Oh well.

In terms of mobility, Weaver has :Polaric Leap (600 range)Lightning Flash (900 range)Ride The Lightning (1200 range)Fiery Greatsword (two skills with 900 range)And some super speed...making it one of the most mobile classes in-game. Not sure what the fuck you're on about.

@Sahfur.5612 said:I wanted to clarify that this also means we cannot get the condition removal from the healing also.. which is also an epic nerf. Isn't the fact we have to stop attacking and use obvious stuff and lock ourselves into things for a while to clear already enough of a trade-off?

If you want to keep attacking while getting condi clear, you can run Swift Revenge and sigil of cleansing, not like you should be having problems with conditions to begin with on Weaver if you know what to dodge due to the abundant number of dodges alongside a solid vigor uptime.

@Sahfur.5612 said:Weaver has to actually press buttons to win a fight. While risking being interrupted constantly and planning ahead and locking itself into rotations. Are you seriously just wanting us to go spellbreaker or whatever other braindead stuff and press less buttons to get the same results?

Every single class has to press buttons to win a fight. Now most weavers run Bolstered Elements alongside Primordial Stance and Twist of Fate, allowing them to get quiiiiite a few stacks of stability when needed. So where's all that risk to get interrupted, especially since the defensive healing combo is 100% evasive? Speaking of which, I'd understand the problem with being locked into rotations except all that a Weaver has to do is remembering that every 10s or so, they have to go Water, Water 2, Earth 2 and the enemies will be powerless to stop it once it has started.

@Sahfur.5612 said:I get that the tooltip was wrong, but maybe the solution was to just remove the tooltip and let us keep our buffs since we already aren't particularly meta and to be strong we actually have to press buttons. While thinking about those buttons far in advance of most classes. Many more buttons than most classes, in fact. Effort should be rewarded, I dunno, at some point in this game.

Sword Weaver is pretty damn strong, though. You mentioned WvW, it's definitely good there. Every class has the potential to think ahead and try to predict what is the opponent is going to do and plan accordingly. You're really trying to make it look like Weaver is a special snowflake and by that logic, that you are too. Sorry, that ain't exactly true.

@Sahfur.5612 said:Or maybe, we needed some clears so we could clear some of the -unavoidable- conditions we'd get when we enter the opponents 30 cancer circles and some swiftness so we could actually -enter- close-range due to the billions of mobility skills on most everything these days and their ability to do STUPID amounts of damage from maximum range.

If you run Water/Arcane/Weaver on s/d with Primordial Stance, Lightning Flash, Twist of Fate, FGS you shouldn't have problems with either conditions or mobility. It's time to git gud.

rolls eyes It really is a special snowflake as far as apm and it is disingenuous to pretend it isn't. As much as I'd -love- to state my spellbreaker or scourge require the same apm, it isn't true. Certainly, it can be strong but it is also very predictable due to the way we swap elements. The people I fight aren't always mouth breathers, they are often the kind of people who would count bullets of the other person in a gun fight and know how many they had left. They can read my moves. I regularly 1v2-4 on multiple classes including weaver ( I play them all) and I believe I have a -splendid- idea of what effort it takes to get a kill. I don't need to "git gud" I need to see balance and transparency. I fight people who actually dodge and use their skills and what this does is deliver a huge morale hit to me considering I will have to do far more than them to score the win. It was already facepalmy fighting some builds. Saying we have the option to run extra mobility doesn't cut it when all it does is get us close enough for a few moments as a melee build, long enough for them to dodge or spike an invuln or whatever cheese tactic they have available at the time. You need something to keep you there long enough. There is a point to the swiftness boon's increased effectiveness on us when using a certain grandmaster. Ask yourself: Why did they design it that way when they were having more moments of clarity? Is it perhaps possible that it had a purpose while being on a primarily sword melee specialization? Now we have to invest in additional things to stack it that we frankly do not have the extra room for.

Yes, it is nice in wvw but only if you learn the class. Yes, we can think ahead, but we -have- to and we end up locking into a rotation to accomplish certain tasks as weavers.I don't consider myself a special snowflake and I don't consider this one class of the -entirety- of the classes I play a special snowflake. I simply call out terrible balance passes when I see them. Core engi is doing much worse. Worse balance exists in this game right now. There are ways to optimize for one or two scenarios but there are plenty of builds in the game that have little or no need to do that. A great number of the other classes I play, allow me to have my cake and eat it too rather than take very specific builds to attempt to offset... peculiar balance decisions. I don't like build diversity being bad or worse because of poor balance passes. I dislike seeing a class lose some of what makes its specialization "special".

Btw: swift revenge and bolstered elements conflict. Choose one? Ok, rock, paper, scissors. That would be fine if everyone else was also playing rock, paper, scissors. They aren't. I know I'm not on some other builds, thats for sure. I get the whole arsenal.

My guardian can still hit like a truck with nearly 4k armor. My warrior can still do basically anything in a few button presses that I haphazardly almost nap through. The list could go on and on. When I play these I sometimes feel guilty fighting weaver or similar classes/builds because I know how much more they are having to do to fight me.

@Megametzler.5729 said:Oh no... I didn't even see this yet. Why, just why? When you don't want us to double attune, why do they even buff double atuunement skills like cauterizing strike...? I just don't get any of the changes.

ANET HATE ELES! I do not know what game you been playing but that just the truth of it.

The thing is they hate ele players more so then the class as they will NEVER post here. Even if ppl point out major bug like the other classes forms.

@Jski.6180 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:Oh no... I didn't even see this yet. Why, just why? When you don't want us to double attune, why do they even buff double atuunement skills like cauterizing strike...? I just don't get any of the changes.

Wait, where did I say they'd love us? :astonished: I never wanted to say that! I miss classic FA, I hated tempest healbotting and weaver is getting complete trash, more and more each patch. And that's just my PVP point of view! ;) Oh, wait, wrong smiley... :scream:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:Oh no... I didn't even see this yet. Why, just why? When you don't want us to double attune, why do they even buff double atuunement skills like cauterizing strike...? I just don't get any of the changes.

(about to run for work)

Nothing on you or not just explaining how things are on these forms in this game etc..

I think a dev. posted hear well over a year and that was during pof where they HAD to. Dev. just do not like ele as a class and they do not like ele players i would not be shocked if Anet hates gw2 players over all.

@Jski.6180 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:Oh no... I didn't even see this yet. Why, just why? When you don't want us to double attune, why do they even buff double atuunement skills like cauterizing strike...? I just don't get any of the changes.

They love mesmer and holo though. I am a bit happy because they seem to be destroying scourge too. :grimace:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:Oh no... I didn't even see this yet. Why, just why? When you don't want us to double attune, why do they even buff double atuunement skills like cauterizing strike...? I just don't get any of the changes.

So true.

There was a bug where double attuning to Earth didn't grant boons with Elemental Attunement, but they derped hard and made all attunements behave like the reported bug.

tbh the feedback for this these nerfs are extremely negative, rightly so, because it changed the playstyle in a way that was familiar to a lot of people. The backwards casting nerf on Natural Frenzy and Shearing Edge also bad for that same reason.

The Elements of Rage nerf was bad because you get 135-254 ferocity depending on your setup and its effectiveness declines on any PvP amulet without ferocity. For comparison other professions like Engi, Mesmer, or Ranger have a flat 150 or 250 stat increase regardless of armor setup. Using one of Ele's worst stats for a grandmaster stat conversion is like a slap in the face. Most skills already have horrible heal/power scaling.

Well this patch defenitly promotes menders sw/d bunker and stacking boon duration...how...exciting (puke). Amazing that dev's think that they helped dps builds this time...

Still could be worse like FA patch... (looked at Elements of rage) oh wait they nerfed fresh weaver again!? Amazing...

@cgMatt.5162 said:Using one of Ele's worst stats for a grandmaster stat conversion is like a slap in the face.

Eles have the same vitality as everyone else: 1000 + whatever is on your amulet. Considering their low base hp (something completely unrelated to vitality), pretty much every ele will want at least some vit (at least in pvp situations), making it a very important stat. The exact damage gained from a certain amount of ferocity is exactly the same regardless of how much you have as well. It takes the same amount of stat to go from critting for 1500 to 1600 as it does to go from 2000 to 2100. Ferocity's return value scales off power and precision, not itself.

@Uhtameit.2413 said:

@Sahfur.5612 said:This is an epic nerf, especially in WvW or anyplace where you have to run alot. Even with our swiftness trait many classes outran us before this. Now? Oh well.

You do realize that you mentioned different skills of different weapons, and just in case you're in the middle of a fight you cannot change weapons. Fyi our mobility relies heavily on high CD skills whereas thief's mobility skills can be spammed almost the entire day.If you actually knew what you were writting, you'd know how eles are easily chased by thieves and warriors, and you know why? Because those two professions trully have more mobility than us.

So glad I stopped PvPing after the Fresh Air nerf (I played core FA at the time, which was actually very well balanced and couldn't actually 1-shot unless someone got hit by dragon's tooth + phoenix + lightning flash + air attune + air 2 + arcane blast, now it can't even out-dps most heals).

This change makes the cost of double-attuning with arcana, which is already huge, even higher. Let's compare:-Core ele or tempest: I get ~4 procs of elemental attunement per 10s if I keep re-attuning at an ideal pace-Weaver: I get 2 procs of ele attunement every 10s, or only 1 if I, for some reason, choose to double-attune.

Since elements or rage was nerfed to make dps -weaver a worthless pursuit for pvp, the bruiser-healbot build, which really needs that ele attunement bonus hurts even more.

Whatever, Anet has never been competent at balancing ele, or properly understanding what works, why, and what the proper weaknesses need to be. Don't even expect a compelling spec to come for ele as long as the same person is the designer, because he has really turned the class from something fun to something just frustrating.

I could understand nerfing protection from atttuning to earth , but might / swiftness / regen aren't spectacular so this is disappointing.

It's not a nerf, it's a bug fix. Trait clearly states than boon is granted only on 1st attuning. Swiftness and regen were bugged since we could get them even on full attuning to air/water and now it's fixed. It sucks, but it's not a "stealth nerf".

@Infusion.7149 said:I could understand nerfing protection from atttuning to earth , but might / swiftness / regen aren't spectacular so this is disappointing.

earth worked as intended (now) since release of pof and got you only one stack. it never gave u two. they only adjusted the other atunements now.

@"steki.1478" said:It's not a nerf, it's a bug fix. Trait clearly states than boon is granted only on 1st attuning. Swiftness and regen were bugged since we could get them even on full attuning to air/water and now it's fixed. It sucks, but it's not a "stealth nerf".

If an effect is in a game long enofe it becomes part of the balancing bug or not. This swap double for reg and swiftness were part of ppl game play and was in the game for so long with out a fix i would not call it a bug to be fixed. Calling it a fixed buged at this point is just a cop out.

This metor shower thing atm is going to run into the same problem if anet dose not do any thing about it and dose not even say any thing about it soon this "bug" will no longer be a full bug but part of the game balancing.

As much as I liked Swiftness on both attunes I agree this is a bug fix and not a nerf. It might have been an opportunity to raise the duration of Swiftness/Regen while fixing them however which would maintain the swiftness upkeep whilst not giving more condi clears than intended (when traited).

Also remember how Riptide got nerfed and they "buffed" aqua siphon to try and balance the nerf? Well, now we are heavily incentivized not to even see Aqua Siphon... so yeah. I am gonna go ahead and count this as a reinforcement to nerf to Riptide/Aqua Siphon.

Did some testing...

Actually chaining quantum strike->pyro vortex with primordial stance feels like burst now...at least on marauder amulet.

Patch generally still sucks but at least buffs this time do something.

@Mr Godlike.6098 said:Did some testing...

Actually chaining quantum strike->pyro vortex with primordial stance feels like burst now...at least on marauder amulet.

Patch generally still sucks but at least buffs this time do something.

Quantun strike is nice on a single target... sadly it does not cleave like the other skills.

Pyro vortex is quite nice on multiple targets packed together. As it creates more vortex for each target you hit, and each vortex hits multiple targets.Try on open world pulling a group of enemies pack together with your raptor, or in dungeon/raid/fotm with a mesmer using focus pull. good numbers on it.