I'm so glad I went back to Guardian, I feel for you all.

These nerfs hurt too much. My main alt was Scourge, now I have nothing I like besides Guardian. This class balance team really needs to stop the endless nerfs. I expect Scourge to do 27k-28k now on golems :/

This sucks. It's pathetic to be getting depressed over playing a fucking MMO, but I just wish Necros were good. It's back to the instant kick days I guess :(

I feel my constant hope for buffs to be going away, and just turning into expecting endless disappointment.

So many of my Necromancer friends have quit too. They got fed up.

Time to wait for next balance patch again. See you all in 2 months. o/

and the NO necro in lfg i kinda missed thosei guess its not a true GW2 experience if necro isn't crap

Come on guys, let's give a warm welcome on the bench to the elementalists that actively militate to gut the necromancer out of raids and ended up being kicked out alongside. Unlike the necromancer, the poor thing is not used to such a thing, let's try not to hurt it's feeling to much.

glad i got full berserker's from dungeons to switch to reaper until we get nerfed again and condi is slightly better again.

Condi is still better than power from my testings.

@Kam.4092 said:So many of my Necromancer friends have quit too. They got fed up.

Yeah and my entire guild that was exclusively Necromancer quit.. I've finally come back after a few years of leaving. I imagined things would have changed... there's no f-cking way a company would bury the disapproval of their customers for this long. Yet here we are, Necromancers are back to being auto-kicked from every bit of content and has basically turned this game into an empty single player game. I only summon my minions so I can pretend this is an MMORPG as they hit softer than those wild boars in the starting zone and are painfully ugly (while other Undead/Necromantic themed creatures have higher quality, concept and execution) to look at.

I tried to distract myself from the fact that my class is abandoned, my guild has left and I'm barred from the majority of content for simply BEING a Necromancer.. but it's time to move on for good this time. I'm going back to League of Legends or Fortnite, hopefully I'll see you there instead.

@KolderThanYou.9018 said:

@Kam.4092 said:So many of my Necromancer friends have quit too. They got fed up.

Why are you ressing a tread from july? Btw, necromancers got some buffs lately

@Xuazinegueri.3592 said:Why are you ressing a tread from july? Btw, necromancers got some buffs lately

that sounds like sooooo necro thing to do ;)I'll see myself out for that one

I will be honest, I started as an elementalist, and necromancer was one of the few classes that caught my attention as an over-all feel, the joke is that they seem to be the exact opposites, necro is amazing when out of group but starts to lack in group scenarios, and ele is an absolute trash on its own, but used to be boosted to infinity in group content.

I played necro A LOT (my most played on par with my mesmer) and I stopped to play it since I've been kicked from my groups because of my class so much times I'm unable to count.

I love my necro, she's one of my fav toons, and the fact I just can't play her is too much for me. I play GW2 less and less because the only class I want to play is rejected by the other players.

Ok, the necro is strong in WvW but guess what? even if I play WvW sometimes, I don't mind WvW when I play PvE, which is 95% of my time IG!I play GW alone since my friends don't like this game. I prefer to spend more time with them until the balance team open their eyes and correct the mistakes they commit endlessly since the release with the necromancer.

@Leinhart.2981 said:I played necro A LOT (my most played on par with my mesmer) and I stopped to play it since I've been kicked from my groups because of my class so much times I'm unable to count.

I love my necro, she's one of my fav toons, and the fact I just can't play her is too much for me. I play GW2 less and less because the only class I want to play is rejected by the other players.

Ok, the necro is strong in WvW but guess what? even if I play WvW sometimes, I don't mind WvW when I play PvE, which is 95% of my time IG!I play GW alone since my friends don't like this game. I prefer to spend more time with them until the balance team open their eyes and correct the mistakes they commit endlessly since the release with the necromancer.

Honestly, its only strong in zergs/groups in wvw. It's a sitting duck solo roaming since other classes can kite it all day and pew pew it from 1200+. Best it can do is catch some one unaware and land a good axe2, praying their target's passives are on cd from their last fight. That or try to force a fight into a tight area where they can force the opppnent to fight them in melee, or places where pebbles and slight inclines lead to random obstructeds (like the camp south of bay).

@Derkon.7408 said:I will be honest, I started as an elementalist, and necromancer was one of the few classes that caught my attention as an over-all feel, the joke is that they seem to be the exact opposites, necro is amazing when out of group but starts to lack in group scenarios, and ele is an absolute trash on its own, but used to be boosted to infinity in group content.

Guild wars 2 seems unable to balance the content in a way to have classes all desired equally.If they nerf core like some people crying for nerfs to core, you end up with being forced to go to the new spec, because the core spec becomes trash.If you nerf the newest elite spec like with scourge, you end up with the new one being trash, and being forced to not play it.

I am still waiting for changes maybe hoping the channeling on meteor gets improved, because I think the channeling is a little long.

In all full fledged honesty, in the end of the day, your kit is supposed to help you solve the problems at hand, which is the content offered by the expansion, core should be a suitable choice (not the best, but still suitable) for all content, then HoT elites for HoT content, and PoF elites for PoF content. Another issue that rises is that if core isn't working properly, neither will be the elites. Complimenting something malfunctioning gives you something equally malfunctioning. :< And the 2 classes I have an eye out the most suffer from it.

@KolderThanYou.9018 said:

@Kam.4092 said:So many of my Necromancer friends have quit too. They got fed up.

I have doubts that ANet buried the disapproval of their customers. They have attempted to make several fixes to Necromancer. They just don't work. The problem isn't that ANet doesn't want to fix it or doesn't care to fix it. After six years I think the problem should be as clear as day, Necromancer has some core design flaws and due to that, it can't be fixed without a 100% complete redesign. At this stage, a complete redesign is unlikely though.

@Axl.8924 said:

@Derkon.7408 said:I will be honest, I started as an elementalist, and necromancer was one of the few classes that caught my attention as an over-all feel, the joke is that they seem to be the exact opposites, necro is amazing when out of group but starts to lack in group scenarios, and ele is an absolute trash on its own, but used to be boosted to infinity in group content.

To be fair, I know of few games that balance content in such a way as to have all classes equally desired. I think it's an impossible task and the best we can hope for is not too much drift between the best and worst options. In this case though, as you and I have discussed before, with the problem being located in core Necro design there isn't much of a fix so long as the core profession remains unchanged.

@Dace.8173 said:

@KolderThanYou.9018 said:

@Kam.4092 said:So many of my Necromancer friends have quit too. They got fed up.

@Axl.8924 said:

@Derkon.7408 said:I will be honest, I started as an elementalist, and necromancer was one of the few classes that caught my attention as an over-all feel, the joke is that they seem to be the exact opposites, necro is amazing when out of group but starts to lack in group scenarios, and ele is an absolute trash on its own, but used to be boosted to infinity in group content.

The issue is more or less player mentality more than balance.

Necro is always either weak in PvE due to lower damage and strong in PvP because of its control and durability, or the opposite case where it's weak in PvP because it has no sustain and passable in PvE because of damage increases. It continues along said axis. It's why scourge got nerfed in its damage and why reaper got completely gutted in its sustain. Because of the underlying vision of the class being a control mage + health sponge. That concept just doesn't work in GW2.

It's only problematic because people optimize so hard for PvE damage. And Raids encourage it. Necro was never supposed to be a DPS leader because it'd be broken otherwise since it does so many other things better than other professions.

No matter how much people get upset about it, it's never going to be in a good spot unless they basically just remove the entire concept of necro from the game. But there's really not much more ANet can do because raids are built on the trinity and there are so many other professions and specs which are designed to fill such a role. And in most cases we just see that one spec outright replaces another more than anything else because people tryhard for optimization like they're setting world records.

A simple shroud rework won't fix it. If shroud becomes a DPS tool all that happens is the class just leans even further towards one extreme or the other in the PvP modes, as Shroud's defenses carry necro in PvP.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Dace.8173 said:

@KolderThanYou.9018 said:

@Kam.4092 said:So many of my Necromancer friends have quit too. They got fed up.

@Axl.8924 said:

@Derkon.7408 said:I will be honest, I started as an elementalist, and necromancer was one of the few classes that caught my attention as an over-all feel, the joke is that they seem to be the exact opposites, necro is amazing when out of group but starts to lack in group scenarios, and ele is an absolute trash on its own, but used to be boosted to infinity in group content.

Oh, I have argued on numerous occasions is that part of the problem for Necromancer is the attitude of the playerbase at large and the PvE desire for optimal efficency over all else. All things considered, if people are willing to accept a slightly lower leve of efficeny Necromancer can do most of the PvE content. It may take people a bit longer but it is possible. Sadly, changing player attitudes towards how Raids and Fractals should be run, and as a result broadening the scope of all manner of acceptable builds that currently go ignored, is less likely than ANet doing a complete rework of the profession. Such a change in attitude would likely solve a lot of balance based issues for more than just Necromancer.

In my experince, it is rarely the case that a game designer is simply ignoring the playerbase or doesn't care about the issue. This is their livelyhood, after all.Which is the assumption far too many players make.

Some of the issues are people crying about necro when they are counterable though.I mean reaper is slow very slow and yes it hits hard, but it can be cced and Ranged very very easily and its already quite weak in its base form in terms of sustain.

In wow they managed to have at least 1 or more of each spec viable in something.

In guild wars 2 Some classes aren't even viable in 2 modes such as necromancer. Im not saying the problems in pvp don't exist, nor am I saying they are exaggerated, but there must be a way to make necromancers viewed as not op

@Axl.8924 said:Some of the issues are people crying about necro when they are counterable though.I mean reaper is slow very slow and yes it hits hard, but it can be cced and Ranged very very easily and its already quite weak in its base form in terms of sustain.

In wow they managed to have at least 1 or more of each spec viable in something.

In guild wars 2 Some classes aren't even viable in 2 modes such as necromancer. Im not saying the problems in pvp don't exist, nor am I saying they are exaggerated, but there must be a way to make necromancers viewed as not op

OP is a player perception that I believe is rarely based on provable facts and statements. We have people in professions that are really strong that now claim they are useless due to one nerf that pulls them closer in line with other professions (Elemenalist/Weaver). We have a thread were Ranger players and Theif players are fighting it out to be able to claim they are worse off than Necromancer. I really don't think there is anything that ANet can do to make people feel that it's not OP when it isn't OP. I think if that were possible then Necromancer wouldn't suffer the auto kick in PvE content so often as there are times when it gets auto kicked and it is more than capable of handling the content in question.

@Dace.8173 said:

@Axl.8924 said:Some of the issues are people crying about necro when they are counterable though.I mean reaper is slow very slow and yes it hits hard, but it can be cced and Ranged very very easily and its already quite weak in its base form in terms of sustain.

In wow they managed to have at least 1 or more of each spec viable in something.

In guild wars 2 Some classes aren't even viable in 2 modes such as necromancer. Im not saying the problems in pvp don't exist, nor am I saying they are exaggerated, but there must be a way to make necromancers viewed as not op

Actually my perception is that reaper in pve is quite strong and I stated so, I am just concerned that reaper may take lets say unneeded nerfs that put them back in the gutter. We all know how Anet likes to nerf things at times with a chainsaw.

@Dace.8173 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Dace.8173 said:

@KolderThanYou.9018 said:

@Kam.4092 said:So many of my Necromancer friends have quit too. They got fed up.

@Axl.8924 said:

@Derkon.7408 said:I will be honest, I started as an elementalist, and necromancer was one of the few classes that caught my attention as an over-all feel, the joke is that they seem to be the exact opposites, necro is amazing when out of group but starts to lack in group scenarios, and ele is an absolute trash on its own, but used to be boosted to infinity in group content.

Thing is, if it is a player perception, there can't be concessions made by ANet. This makes way for powercreep or unnecessary changes/nerfs. I stopped playing reaper and really GW2 in general because these last round of changes made the class as a whole perform worse in the PvP modes and would me to re-stat literally every single piece of gear for it, with the character being total trash until every piece was re-acquired. Much of the changes weren't made intelligently and had little regard for the greater contexts of the game. People are happy because the single most generic and obvious build is usable in PvE, but yet I can't even take mine into WvW without a full re-gear, and will still also perform worse than before.

In my experince, it is rarely the case that a game designer is simply ignoring the playerbase or doesn't care about the issue. This is their livelyhood, after all.Which is the assumption far too many players make.

I initially had a wall of text I wrote on this before I decided to scrap it all because it just seemed too abrasive towards ANet and would probably get me in trouble.I'll sum it up briefly: my personal experience dealing with the ANet professions team - and yes, I do have such experience - is unfortunately the contrary to what yours is.

I have no idea what any of you are talking about. Necormancers are all over SPvP. Most teams have at least 2 encromancers in it in both ranked and unranked.

In PvP/WvW it's all about mobility. As long as necro does not get mobility the frustration will never end.

I never understood why people are opting for more sustain on necro. A sitting duck is a sitting duck, no matter how much sustain it has. When you can pull yourself out of dangerous situations you automatically feel stronger even when the rest of your class is slightly underpowered.

I don't need a 7s shroud cooldown or 2% LF degeneration when I have an instant teleport. I can play around these issues with repositioning myself - and that's how a skillful playstyle looks like. Thanks ANet for crippling my skill potential!

@KrHome.1920 said:In PvP/WvW it's all about mobility. As long as necro does not get mobility the frustration will never end.

I never understood why people are opting for more sustain on necro. A sitting duck is a sitting duck, no matter how much sustain it has. When you can pull yourself out of dangerous situations you automatically feel stronger even when the rest of your class is slightly underpowered.

I don't need a 7s shroud cooldown or 2% LF degeneration when I have an instant teleport. I can play around these issues with repositioning myself - and that's how a skillful playstyle looks like. Thanks ANet for crippling my skill potential!

Agree with this.

I think we'll need to wait and hope for some in the next Elite spec. I don't see A-net changing any of the current specs in this way.

@Axl.8924 said:

@Dace.8173 said:

@Axl.8924 said:Some of the issues are people crying about necro when they are counterable though.I mean reaper is slow very slow and yes it hits hard, but it can be cced and Ranged very very easily and its already quite weak in its base form in terms of sustain.

In wow they managed to have at least 1 or more of each spec viable in something.

In guild wars 2 Some classes aren't even viable in 2 modes such as necromancer. Im not saying the problems in pvp don't exist, nor am I saying they are exaggerated, but there must be a way to make necromancers viewed as not op

Ah, I get you now. I wish Revenant players were as reasonable as Necromancer players when it came to nerfs. They seem to think that if you take something that is already working just fine and make it work even better that it wouldn't be nerfed. The idea that ANet would nerf stuff seems foreign to some of them.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Dace.8173 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Dace.8173 said:

@KolderThanYou.9018 said:

@Kam.4092 said:So many of my Necromancer friends have quit too. They got fed up.

@Axl.8924 said:

@Derkon.7408 said:I will be honest, I started as an elementalist, and necromancer was one of the few classes that caught my attention as an over-all feel, the joke is that they seem to be the exact opposites, necro is amazing when out of group but starts to lack in group scenarios, and ele is an absolute trash on its own, but used to be boosted to infinity in group content.

In my experince, it is rarely the case that a game designer is simply ignoring the playerbase or doesn't care about the issue. This is their livelyhood, after all.Which is the assumption far too many players make.

Why are you restating PvP gear? It has flat stats already. So what your gear stats were before any nerfs or changes is immaterial since gear is unaffected in PvP. Also, I still contend that ANet is not specifically ignoring the concerns of Necromancer players, or any playerbase really. They have made numerous changes to the profession. However, as has been discussed in other threads, Necromancer suffers from design problems that keep it at the bottom. A complete redesign at this point is just not feasible as no matter what happens ANet loses out, as would some players.

@Dace.8173 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Dace.8173 said:

@Axl.8924 said:Some of the issues are people crying about necro when they are counterable though.I mean reaper is slow very slow and yes it hits hard, but it can be cced and Ranged very very easily and its already quite weak in its base form in terms of sustain.

In wow they managed to have at least 1 or more of each spec viable in something.

In guild wars 2 Some classes aren't even viable in 2 modes such as necromancer. Im not saying the problems in pvp don't exist, nor am I saying they are exaggerated, but there must be a way to make necromancers viewed as not op

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Dace.8173 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Dace.8173 said:

@KolderThanYou.9018 said:

@Kam.4092 said:So many of my Necromancer friends have quit too. They got fed up.

@Axl.8924 said:

@"Derkon.7408" said:I will be honest, I started as an elementalist, and necromancer was one of the few classes that caught my attention as an over-all feel, the joke is that they seem to be the exact opposites, necro is amazing when out of group but starts to lack in group scenarios, and ele is an absolute trash on its own, but used to be boosted to infinity in group content.

In my experince, it is rarely the case that a game designer is simply ignoring the playerbase or doesn't care about the issue. This is their livelyhood, after all.Which is the assumption far too many players make.

As an equal victim in this case, its a matter of playing with our intelligence at this point. Such a fundamental issue as what you use on a daily basis to traverse anything they design from that point onward should never reach such a status in any way shape or form, and it is not just 1 class that they are neglecting, it is multiple. I admire your optimism however there have been enough products and dev teams around for the player-base to have a comparison measurement. At this point quite a few people used to say "Play another class." I see it and I raise it with "Stop wasting your time in this product."