[E.Spec Suggestion] Broodslayer — Guild Wars 2 Forums

[E.Spec Suggestion] Broodslayer

TheSwede.9512TheSwede.9512 Member ✭✭✭
edited July 23, 2018 in Revenant

Broodslayer

  • Bruiser/DPS Archetype
  • Heavy Focus on personal sustain, snowballing potential and unique self-buffs
  • Secondary Focus on CC, Unblockable Attacks and DPS
  • A powerful and enduring Bruiser that grows exponentially more powerful the longer a battle goes on.

Theme and Role: A Dragonslayer's Legacy

"Asgeir Dragonrender: Battle Master, Favored of the Spirits of the Wild, Builder of Hoelbrak. The Norn who fought alongside the Spirits of the Wild and earned their favor. The Norn who struck down Jormag's favored lieutenant Frostfang in a single blow, and then a tooth from the Elder Dragon himself, proving to the world that these abominations were very much mortal. Ages have since passed, and time has claimed Asgeir's life since, but his spirit and legacy lives on forever. And now, it has echoed through the mists, where his legend has arisen to pass on the torch, for someone to finish what he started.
That someone is The Broodslayer. Calling upon the legend of Asgeir, the Broodslayer becomes undeniably connected not only to him, but to the Spirits of the Wilds that once aided him as well. With their eyes upon them, the Broodslayer may embark on a Spirit Quest in order to earn the favor of the Norn's guardian spirits. If they succeed and gain their favor, they can realize their true inner potential and grow into warriors of legend, worthy to call themselves heirs to Asgeir's will. The Spirits may be the Patrons and Matrons of the Norn, but anyone who manages to catch their eye are given a chance to prove themselves true warriors, regardless of their race."

The Broodslayer is a Bruiser/DPS archetype with massive potential for dominating a battlefield, provided they're played correctly. Broodslayers start off as humbly as any other profession, but as they undertake Spirit Quests during the battle, they eventually earn the favor of the Spirits of the Wild which empowers them greatly by increasing their Attributes and granting them several unique buffs, depending on which Spirit(s) they have honored with their deeds.
Broodslayers are versatile warriors that must rely on both strength, speed, cunning and loyalty towards their allies. They thrive in the thick of the fight, swinging their massive blades across enemies and challenging them to the claim of a legend. As they complete Spirit Quests, they can eventually reach Apotheosis, drawing upon the true strength of their channeled Legend to empower themselves further and drive on through the battle. Unlike other Revenants, Broodslayers only channel a single Legend in battle, however. They come with a high risk/high reward playstyle that rewards aggression but punishes carelessness and hesitation. They can specialize heavily into Sustain or focus more on dealing heavy Direct Damage, synergizing heavily not only with the Legendary Slayer stance, but also Dwarf and Assassin stances.


Profession Mechanic: Spirit Quests, Apotheosis, Enhanced Elite Skills

"Broodslayers are Revenants who commune not only with the legends hidden in the Mists, but also holds the attention of the spirits that reside within. Specifically, channeling Asgeir has caught the attention of the Spirits of the Wild, and the Broodslayer can make claim towards their blessings. However, these blessings do not come easy even to the likes of heroes, and the Broodslayer must prove themselves in the eyes of Bear, Wolf, Raven and Snow Leopard to earn their respective boons. Because of their stronger communion however, Broodslayers only invoke the raw power of a single Legend in order to harness the true power, eventually embodying the very virtues they possess."

The Broodslayer’s F1 Skill is replaced with a new skill called Apotheosis, which is only made available whenever they complete a Spirit Quest, which are bound to their F2-F5 keys by default. Apotheosis instantly restores the Broodslayer to 75 Energy if they’re below the threshold (But not if they’re above it) and instantly Refreshes the Cooldowns on their Legend Skills, along with other bonuses gained from Traits.

  • F1: Apotheosis - Becomes available after completing a Spirit Quest. Summon the true potential of your chosen legend to empower yourself, Instantly restoring your Energy to 75 if below the value and refreshing the Cooldowns on your Legend Skills. Cooldown: 10s.

Spirit Quests act as Legend Swap as well, triggering any traits related to Legend Swapping and resetting Energy to 50 when swapped to. Only 1 Quest can be attempted at any time, and all Quests share a 10s Cooldown between swapping.
In order to Complete a Spirit Quest and earn the Spirit’s Favor, a powerful boon, the Broodslayer must spend 100 Energy in total while in Combat, gaining 1 stack of a Unique Buff for every 1 energy spent, however each Spirit allows them to earn extra stacks by performing specific actions. At Full stacks, the Spirit Quest completes and the Broodslayer gains access to Apotheosis and a 45s Duration Buff unique to each Spirit. However, stacks of a specific Spirit Quest fall off after a time if no new stacks are gained, slowly in Combat but faster out of combat.

  • F2: Trial of Bear - Prove your might and fortitude to Bear in order to earn her Favor. You gain extra stacks by Blocking attacks or Destroying Projectiles while undertaking Bear’s Trial. Bear’s Favor Enhances your Elite Skill, grants you +150 Vitality and Toughness, and decreases all Condition Damage you suffer by -20%. You cannot gain more stacks from Trial of Bear until you’ve lost Bear’s Favor.
  • F3: Trial of Wolf - Prove your ferocity and loyalty to Wolf in order to earn his Favor. You gain extra stacks by Healing or granting Boons to Allies while undertaking Wolf’s Trial. Wolf’s Favor Enhances your Elite Skill, grants you +150 Power and Healing Power, while also granting +100 Power and Healing Power to up to 10 nearby Allies. You cannot gain more stacks from Trial of Wolf until you’ve lost Wolf’s Favor.
  • F4: Trial of Snow Leopard - Prove your deadliness and hunter’s instincts to Snow Leopard in order to earn her Favor. You gain extra stacks by scoring Critical Hits while undertaking Snow Leopard’s Trial. Snow Leopard’s Favor Enhances your Elite Skill, grants you +150 Precision and Ferocity, and increases Weapon Attack Speed by +25%. You cannot gain more stacks from Trial of Snow Leopard until you’ve lost Snow Leopard’s Favor.
  • F5: Trial of Raven - Prove your wit and cunning to Raven in order to earn his Favor. You gain extra stacks by successful Crowd Control on enemies while undertaking Raven’s Trial. Raven’s Favor Enhances your Elite Skill, grants you +150 Condition Damage and Expertise, and makes you Immune to Blindness and Weakness. You cannot gain more stacks from Trial of Raven until you’ve lost Raven’s Favor.

Last but not least, completing Spirit Quests also enhances the effects of the Broodslayer's Elite Skill. The more Trials that are completed, the stronger these Elite Skills become, each one improving in usefulness in different ways.

  • Jalis: Rite of the Great Dwarf - Each completed Spirit Quest reduces the Energy Cost by 5 and Activation Time by 1/4s.
  • Shiro: Jade Winds - Each completed Spirit Quest increases the Damage by 25% and stacks additional Vulnerability (2 extra Stacks). In addition, each completed Spirit Quest reduces Activation time by 1/4s, making this skill Instant with all Spirit Quests completed.
  • Mallyx: Embrace the Demon - Each completed Spirit Quest decreases the Upkeep Cost by -1.
  • Ventari: Energy Expulsion - Each completed Spirit Quest creates 1 additional Healing Fragment and increases the duration of all fragments by 20%.

Weapon: Greatsword

"The Greatsword is perhaps the most fitting weapon for those who aim to slay dragons. Asgeir commanded the blade with the strength of the Spirits behind him, but also with his own Ferocity and Skill. The Broodslayer seeks to follow in his steps, and has mastered the use of this massive blade in combat."

The Greatsword, in the hands of the Broodslayer, is a powerful melee weapon with High Spike Damage and plenty of acces to Weakness and soft CC, with a devastating AoE Attack at the helm of their outfit. It works best when surrounded by enemies, and the Auto-attack not only cleaves through them but fires short-ranged shockwaves that strike even more targets, enhancing the effective range of their fighting style. In return for this, the Greatsword is on the slower and more well-telegraphed end of the spectrum, better suited for group fights than duels. The Burst is easy to tell, so setting it up with CC or Immobilize first is often necessary to succeed with it.

  1. Mist Cleave - Cleave through enemies in Melee range, reaving up a shockwave of Mist energy that Pierces through them and nearby enemies at short range. Shockwave Range: 300.
    • Raging Echo - Cleave through enemies again, sending another shockwave to pierce through them. Shockwave Range: 300.
    • Pierce the Veil - Stab your blade forwards, piercing through the Mists to strike several Targets ahead of you. Weakens (2s) all targets struck. Range: 300.
  2. Deflecting Blow - Strike enemies in front of you with a brutal swing that also Blocks incoming attacks while swinging. This skill deals double Damage if an attack is blocked.
  3. Reaving Mists - Leap forwards with a massive cut from your blade, striking and Chilling (2s) enemies in your wake while tearing up a large rift that pulses damage to enemies for a short time, before it collapses and Blinds (5s) them. Acts as a Leap Finisher.
  4. Cascading Enervation - Raise your sword into the air, raining several blades from the Mists over the target area that Immobilizes (1 1/2s) on creation, then pulses Damage and Weakness (1s) to enemies within. Acts as an Ice Field. Duration: 4s. Pulses: 5.
  5. Sundering Quake - Hurl your blade into the air above the target area, then step through the mists to it and drive it into the ground with a vicious descent. Deals massive damage and Launches enemies in the blast radius. Evades attacks while airborne. Acts like a Blast Finisher. Launch Distance: 400.

Utility Skills: Legendary Slayer Stance

"Channeling Asgeir, the Broodslayer gains access to his powers and the boons he gained from the Spirits of the Wild. Representing fortitude, ferocity, lethality and wit, the Broodslayer can summon aspects of the Spirits to aid them in battle. Ultimately, they can call upon Asgeir's Blade and unleash a devastating attack that, like their predecessor, can slay their enemies in a single blow."

Legendary Slayer stance is a very versatile and multi-faceted stance that splits its focus between Offense and Defense. Each of the 3 Utility Skills and the Healing skills are designed to aid the Broodslayer in completing respective Spirit Quests. Because Broodslayers lack Legend Swap, the Legendary Slayer Stance possesses more versatility than the Core Legends, but trades this strength for the specialization of other Legends. The Elite Skill, like other Legends, grow exponentially stronger as Spirit Quests are completed, capable of dealing absolutely devastating damage. It is however highly telegraphed, and shouldn't be thrown out without consideration.

  • Bear’s Hide - Healing Skill. Channeled Skill. Heal yourself and Block attacks for a short time.While Blocking, gaining bursts of Healing and Stability (1 stack, 6s) when attacked. Block Duration: 2 1/2s. Initial Healing (Base): 5.240 (x1.0). Healing while Blocking (Base): 356 (x0.4). Interval: 1/2s.
  • Wolf's Pack - Upkeep Skill (-6). Conjure forth a pack of ethereal wolves from the Mists and run with the pack, becoming a Mobile Ice Field that pulses Swiftness (1s) and Protection (1s) to yourself and nearby Allies. Attacking an enemy causes the wolves to lash out against them, dealing Damage to them.
  • Snow Leopard's Claws - Instant Activation. Hone your weapons with the claws of Snow Leopard, causing your next 3 Attacks to deal Critical Damage and Steal Health from enemies they strike. Base Healing: 678 (x0.4). Also Breaks Stun.
  • Raven's Flight - Send echoes of a Raven to swoop down upon the target area, Dazing (1/2s) and Revealing (4s) enemies. If an enemy is Interrupted by this skill, they’re Knocked Down (2s) instead and lose 2 Boons.
  • Dragon's Bane- Elite Skill. Summon Asgeir’s blade from the Mists and unleash all your might upon nearby enemies, launching a devastating strike that can slay them in one fell blow. Deals 50% more damage for each completed Spirit Quest. This skill is Unblockable and unaffected by Blind or Weakness. Enemies downed by this skill are immediately Defeated.

Specialization Line

"The Broodslayer requires both offense and defense mastered in order to succeed on the journey. They need the strength to remain on their path against any adversity, but they also need the destructive prowess to make use of the Boons they gain. The path they choose from the beginning can easily decide wether they succeed or fail in their quests."

The Broodslayer's specialization line focuses primarily on two split approaches: Offense or Defense. They can increase their power or their sustain, or find a suitable mix of the two as they progress onwards. The upper line focuses heavily on sustain through counter-play, granting them increased recovery and tools to deal with enemy trickery such as CC and conditions. The middle line focuses entirely on offense, empowering the Broodslayer with set bonuses and unblockable attacks. The final line focuses primarily on their new mechanics: Spirit Quests and Apotheosis, which can be enhanced further to improve their Snowballing playstyle.

  • [Minor Adept] Spirits’ Chosen - Legend Swap is replaced by Apotheosis and you gain access to Spirit Quests and the Legendary Slayer Stance.

    • Resurgence - Increases the Healing granted by your Healing Skills (#6) by 20%.
    • Journeyman - Gain +120 Vitality. Critical Damage is increased by 7% while you’re above the Health Threshold. Threshold: 90%.
    • Quester’s Boon - Gain Boons when taking on a Spirit Quest, and pulse Boons to yourself on an interval while undertaking a Spirit Quest. Interval: 10s. Bear: Regeneration (3s). Wolf: Might (3 stacks, 10s). Snow Leopard: Fury (3s). Raven: Quickness (2s).
  • [Minor Master] Determined Quester - Gain bonuses depending on which Spirit Quest you’re undertaking. Bear: -10% Incoming Damage and Condition Damage. Wolf: +10% All Healing. Snow Leopard: +10% Outgoing Damage and Condition Damage. Raven: +33% Movement Speed.

    • Insurmountable - Gain Stability (1 stack, 4s) when you activate a Legendary Dragonslayer stance skill.
    • Legendary Blade - You deal 10% more Damage while wielding a Greatsword. Whenever you Disable an enemy, your next 2 attacks becomes Unblockable. ICD: 10s.
    • Champion’s Claim - Become Immune to Damage for a short time when completing a Spirit Quest. You’re still vulnerable to Conditions and Control Effects. Duration: 1 1/2. ICD: 45s (60s in sPvP/WvW).
  • [Minor Grandmaster] Transcending History - Gain Boons and remove Conditions when activating Apotheosis. Conditions Removed: 4. Boons gained: Protection (5s), Regeneration (5s), Retaliation (5s), Swiftness (10s).

    • Indomitable Spirit - Remove a Condition whenever you apply Stability to yourself. ICD: 1s.
    • Dragonslayer - While you have charges of Unblockable Attacks, Critical Hit chance is massively increased. Gain Ferocity equal to 13% of your Power. Critical Hit Chance: 100%.
    • Grand Invoker - Activating Apotheosis grants you 100 Energy instead. Gain Might (1 stack, 10s) on an interval while above 50 Energy. Interval: 1s.

Comments

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2018

    I haven't read the detail in the main skills etc, but I really, really like the theme, the legend and F skills.

    The only thing I'm not sure on is the name. Conjures up images of a spider slayer, but it's diff enough to be workable

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • TheSwede.9512TheSwede.9512 Member ✭✭✭

    I chose this name because there was already a "Dragon-something" Elite Spec in game (So Dragonslayer would've felt a bit like I tried to one-up it), and because Jormag's minions are called "Icebrood". But yeah, probably not the best name I could've thought of, but Elite Specs tend to get some strange names every so often, heh (Looking at you, Daredevil).

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah that makes. I like it a lot though overall

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The Elite need to be changed. Thats not balanced for how the class works. But like the Weapon skills and the utilities.

    I dont like the passiveness of the Mechanic skills. honestly, I am tired of all the passiveness as is. I prefer these skills were changed to be some actually abilities and attacks instead of another boon button like all the other elite spec mechanic abilities.

    Also want to be clear on this but seem like this Elite Spec eliminates the Legend Swap. Is that correct or did I misread this? Seem like a cool way to do that if so. I just dont want more F(y) passive Boon buttons. Most of Renegade F's abilities are useless, and well Herald is just a boon button.

    Indomitable Spirit - Remove a Condition whenever you apply Stability to yourself. ICD: 1s. This dont seem as useful since Stability is so little.

    Grand Invoker - would be chained with how your mechanics work. could be a balance issue.

  • Scar.1793Scar.1793 Member ✭✭✭

    Imo GS shouldn’t out dps sword, or it would make the weapon useless.

    Sword should be more about high burst and single target damage (unrelenting assault/precision strike/deathstrike), while GS focuses on aoe damage. A hard CC and movement skill for utility and rest good aoe skills with maybe bonuses damage for each foe near you.

    Also that elite is way too OP you didn’t even specified a cooldown :p but yea an elite viable power spec would be really good. Getting old to be considered as a useless dog in very high level content.

  • TheSwede.9512TheSwede.9512 Member ✭✭✭

    @Knighthonor.4061
    I suppose that having a "Gauranteed One-shot" is a bit over the top, especially since I didn't specify things such as Activation Time, Energy Cost or Cooldown with it. Naturally, the skill itself would have a rather massive Activation Time (Close to 2s at least) giving enemies ample time to dodge it, while carrying a Cost of 50 Energy like other Elite Skills. Another limiting factor I was shooting for is the low window in which you can possibly have 4 Spirit Boons simultaneously, given their limited duration and the fact that you need to spend 400 energy in total for them, meaning the One-shot can't be thrown out at the start of a fight or even close to it.

    I didn't want to just copy-paste Renegade's mechanic, and personally I'm not a fan of "Addition"-style Elite Specs that just add new things, I'm more in favor of "Replacement"-style E-specs. And you are indeed correct, this E-Spec would replace Legend Swap with the new F1 skill. The remaining F Skills aren't entirely passive either, as you can swap between them in order to refresh your energy (Same as Legend Swap) since the F1 skill is only available at certain times. Swapping between Spirit Quests also triggers Legend Swap Traits (Such as Song of the Mists) for your chosen legend, so they can definitely be traited to be more interactive.

    Regarding the traits in question: Indomitable Spirit is primarily designed to offer up some high-frequency/low-impact Condi Cleansing for the Broodslayer. They can synergize it with traits such as Insurmountable in the same line, or the Retribution line that grants them Stability-on-Evade. Grand Invoker might be powerful to gain Full energy after achieving Apotheosis, should probably be reduced somewhat tbh.

    @Scar.1793
    Greatsword is definitely not designed to be a high-DPS weapon on its own for the Broodslayer, being a Bruiser weapon with an extended Range Auto-Attack after all. The DPS side of the Broodslayer comes primarily from the Legendary Slayer Stance, while Greatsword would probably fill the role as a secondary weapon for DPS. I definitely do not think it should out-DPS Sword either.

    As for the Elite Skill, went over that up above. Long Activation Time along with the 50 Energy Cost and low access to the actual One-Shot mechanic is the limiting factors. Besides that, I imagine that aside from evasive skills, Invulnerabilities and simply kiting out of range (The skill itself would obviously be melee range) could work as well, so actually landing this skill would be difficult without proper set-up (CC).

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The only major problem I see with this is that it's not a revenant elite spec, it's an entirely new class. I like that you've come up with something unique for the class mechanic but realistically you CAN'T replace legend swap with anything. It's what makes the class. So, a nice idea but it's not a revenant. It's something else.

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    Alright. I'm kitten sold. Let's do this.

    There's balancing that probably needs reigning in but the theme and skills are spot-kitten-on.

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    maybe instead of delete 1 legend add one more so 3 legends can be swap.

  • Game of Bones.8975Game of Bones.8975 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like the time and effort you spent on this class. I only come up with general skeleton ideas without specifics, but you put the meat and brains in it.

    While I'm sure it would get changed a bit after beta-play, don't give up.

    "That's what" -- She

  • Scar.1793Scar.1793 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2018

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    The only major problem I see with this is that it's not a revenant elite spec, it's an entirely new class. I like that you've come up with something unique for the class mechanic but realistically you CAN'T replace legend swap with anything. It's what makes the class. So, a nice idea but it's not a revenant. It's something else.

    But that’s the thing, the point of an elite spec is to change how a class plays, not just give a new weapon and shiny new op traits

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2018

    Uhm, nevermind. I misunderstood the entire thing. I'll have to re-read it with thought.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheSwede.9512 Can you explain Apotheosis with some more detail? Does it actually "replace" Legend Swapping or is it a flip skill? How do you swap legends if Apotheosis is flipped, or can you?

  • TheSwede.9512TheSwede.9512 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2018

    @Yannir.4132
    Sure thing! Apotheosis and Spirit Quests were designed parallell of eachother, so I'll go over both of them below.

    Apotheosis does indeed Replace Legend Swap, it Does not (in the current iteration) act as a flip-over skill.

    The Broodslayer choses 1 Legend to channel, rather than 2 to swap between like Core Revenant and previous Elite Specializations do. In return for this, as they as a result lose 5 Utility Skills, Apotheosis restores Energy (Rather than Resets it. If the Broodslayer is above 75 energy when activating Apotheosis, then it doesn't reduce their current Energy) and resets the Cooldown on all their Utility Skills when activated. This is more powerful than Energy resetting, so Apotheosis is only available after a Spirit Quest has been completed.

    However, as Energy Reset is imperative for Revenant to be even slightly playable, I decided to move this effect to Spirit Quests instead. Swapping between Spirit Quests triggers All effects and Traits related to Invoking a Legend for Core Revenant, such as Song of the Mists, Empty Vessel or Pulsating Pestilence. In order to keep this relegated still, swapping between Spirit Quests has a shared 10s Cooldown between all available Spirit Quests (as such, Broodslayer cannot trigger Legend Swapping Traits any more often than Core Revenant).

    As the Broodslayer only choses a single Legend to channel, traits such as Spirit Boon and Song of the Mists will only ever trigger the effect of the chosen Legend. For instance if you have chosen Shiro as your legend, Changing from undertaking Trial of Wolf to Trial of Raven will trigger these two traits as if you just swapped to Shiro, despite not technically having swapped Legends from one to another.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2018

    That makes a whole lot more sense.

    Still, that Elite skill is ridiculous. A 1-shot that can only be evaded and no other defense works... That will be either OP or useless. You have to give it a long casting time but at what point does the cast time become more trouble than it is worth? I can say for sure that 2 seconds is too little. You have to look at casted Res skills for comparison, as this is a complete turnaround of that and then some. A skill like this will provoke toxicity and anger from the PvP community regardless. Imagine getting targeted by 5 of these guys(or 4, and a Firebrand to give them Stability during the cast) in WvW, and they stagger their cast times so you have to dodge all 5 separately. Seems almost impossible.

    Some of the traits seem really OP as well. All of the Grandmasters really but especially the GM Minor as the skill that invokes it is on a 5 sec cd and takes no energy. Not sure whether the problem is within Apotheosis itself or the trait but bottom line is it's too much packed under 1 button that's not even an Elite skill. I'd say lose the boons(that's more Herald's thing anyway), and reduce the amount of condi it cleanses to let's say 3.

  • I like the GS weapon skills.

    Would it be similar to Necro Gravedigger?

    Slow and some what telegraphed with high damage output? Maybe even make it a Whirl Finisher?

    Just take off the Necro CD reset below 50% HP and i think it would be a solid skill.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2018

    This e-spec concept is a masterpiece.

    Edit: Please anet, I really, really, really want this one.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    That makes a whole lot more sense.

    Still, that Elite skill is ridiculous. A 1-shot that can only be evaded and no other defense works... That will be either OP or useless. You have to give it a long casting time but at what point does the cast time become more trouble than it is worth? I can say for sure that 2 seconds is too little. You have to look at casted Res skills for comparison, as this is a complete turnaround of that and then some. A skill like this will provoke toxicity and anger from the PvP community regardless. Imagine getting targeted by 5 of these guys(or 4, and a Firebrand to give them Stability during the cast) in WvW, and they stagger their cast times so you have to dodge all 5 separately. Seems almost impossible.

    Some of the traits seem really OP as well. All of the Grandmasters really but especially the GM Minor as the skill that invokes it is on a 5 sec cd and takes no energy. Not sure whether the problem is within Apotheosis itself or the trait but bottom line is it's too much packed under 1 button that's not even an Elite skill. I'd say lose the boons(that's more Herald's thing anyway), and reduce the amount of condi it cleanses to let's say 3.

    In the end, these are only balance things. They can be toned down.
    I really do love the concept, and agree with everyone that this is a really cool idea.

  • TheSwede.9512TheSwede.9512 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2018

    @Yannir.4132
    After some consideration, I do believe that you (And all the other people who called it) are correct in the assertion that a "Gauranteed" One-shot is too powerful. Having this skill merely hit for a metric truckload of damage, similar to Death's Judgement on Deadeye or Worldly Impact on Soulbeast, when empowered by Spirit Quests is probably enough for it to fulfill the fantasy of Asgeir's deeds.

    As for Apotheosis' Minor GM trait, I would like to stress that while Apotheosis has a 5s CD, it is still only available After the Broodslayer completes a Spirit Quest (Which requires you to spend 100 Energy while undertaking a Specific Trial) so the frequency at which it will be available is much less than every 5s. I'll probably cut it down a bit (Reduce it to 4 Condis cleansed and 4 Boons gained, with removal of the Defensive ones), but the Broodslayer focuses heavily on Snowballing potential, starting off relatively weak but growing stronger the longer a fight goes on, and I believe that Transcending History plays a key role in that department. Boons also have plenty of counterplay these days, and I made the base durations relatively short to make sure they don't stack up too far.

    @Wizardauz.3761
    The GS skills indeed follow the same logic as Reaper GS and Scrapper Hammer in that it is a slower but heavy-hitting weaponset. Deflecting Blow is the fastest skill available to it, but it only hits for respectable Damage when it blocks an attack mid-swing, meaning the Broodslayer must time it correctly in order to make use of it. The Auto-Attack trades DPS for extended Range and Weakness, while Sundering Quake might hit like a truck but couldn't be more well-telegraphed if you sent out pamphlets ahead of time.

    It's primarily designed to be used in group fights, and the Broodslayer most likely wants to run Sword/X as a secondary set for confirming kills in Duels. They could also run Shiro or Devastation to have access to Quickness in order to curb the innate slowness of the Greatsword, allowing them to run Staff as a defensive option on their secondary weapon set.

  • Wizardauz.3761Wizardauz.3761 Member ✭✭
    edited July 13, 2018

    @TheSwede.9512

    I can understand that. Only point i would wish to make then about the Sundering Quake then is to make it a positional AoE. If youre trading off damage from the auto, and other skills it should be a flexible weapon allowing for non-targeted use of skills in order to possibly re-position, use as mobility, and kite. Would allow for the weapon to still be good despite the lack of raw damage you might find in other GS skill sets of professions in order to have a higher skill cap oriented play style.

    While other professions GS skills sets are rather straight forward and 1 dimensional i would definitely welcome a GS set that actually is expressed well in a unique fashion while keeping with the theme of a Melee Oriented damage weapon.

    Similar to how Rev Staff is unlike any other professions staff skill set.

  • Xenon.4537Xenon.4537 Member ✭✭✭

    Seems a bit overpowered or overcomplicated, but I like the idea of it in general. It sounds like a cool way to kind of do the Norn shapeshifting while making it available to all races.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 14, 2018

    @TheSwede.9512 said:
    After some consideration, I do believe that you (And all the other people who called it) are correct in the assertion that a "Gauranteed" One-shot is too powerful. Having this skill merely hit for a metric truckload of damage, similar to Death's Judgement on Deadeye or Worldly Impact on Soulbeast, when empowered by Spirit Quests is probably enough for it to fulfill the fantasy of Asgeir's deeds.

    Well this I can agree with. Sounds good.

    As for Apotheosis' Minor GM trait, I would like to stress that while Apotheosis has a 5s CD, it is still only available After the Broodslayer completes a Spirit Quest (Which requires you to spend 100 Energy while undertaking a Specific Trial) so the frequency at which it will be available is much less than every 5s. I'll probably cut it down a bit (Reduce it to 4 Condis cleansed and 4 Boons gained, with removal of the Defensive ones), but the Broodslayer focuses heavily on Snowballing potential, starting off relatively weak but growing stronger the longer a fight goes on, and I believe that Transcending History plays a key role in that department. Boons also have plenty of counterplay these days, and I made the base durations relatively short to make sure they don't stack up too far.

    My main concern is that while it takes the 100 energy to gain access to Apotheosis, I'm wondering whether that's enough of a gate after you've used it the first time. It does potentially give back the 100 needed energy when it's traited with Grand Invoker. Simply firing an Elite skill like Jade Winds will already get you halfway to the next Apotheosis. Fire off a few weapon skills and it takes like 3 seconds to regain Apotheosis. On the other hand, the snowball will cease at this point as the global cooldown prevents moving on to the next Spirit Quest. Dunno, maybe it's fine as it is, would really have to try it out first, just wanted to raise this question.
    I also don't like the fact the gained boons are exactly the same as on Herald. Maybe you could give this trait more of a full defensive focus as it's already leaning that way? Defensive boons are beneficial even on offense oriented builds. Besides, if you are going for offense, your natural 2 traitline picks are Devastation and Invocation which already give you plenty of Might and Fury.

    • Champion’s Claim - Become Immune to Damage for a short time when completing a Spirit Quest. You’re still vulnerable to Conditions and Control Effects. Duration: 1 1/2s. Prevents Capture-point contribution. ICD: 20s.

    I do have 1 more new thing to pick at which is this one. The cap prevention really isn't necessary. This trait would be pretty identical to Warrior's Defy Pain and Ranger's Lesser Signet of Stone, and neither of these traits prevents capping. It's only the full immunity ones that do this. This trait is also a passive. But it doesn't follow established rules for passives. Taking into account the smaller duration, it should have a 45 s ICD for PvE and WvW, and about a 70 s ICD for PvP. Or just make it last 2 seconds and give it the same ICD's as Defy Pain.

  • TheSwede.9512TheSwede.9512 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yannir.4132
    I hear your concerns there. I'm no professional on Balance, so I couldn't say for myself exactly how Apotheosis would work and where it requires buffs or nerfs myself, or which traits need to be changed in order for it to work.
    Defensive Boons is probably a good idea come to think of it. I went with offensive ones for Snowballing, but the energy boost is probably enough for that in the current iteration.

    Champion's Claim and its Capture-point prevention is a remnant of when it used to make them Invulnerable (Which was a bit too powerful, so I dialed it back, but must've forgotten to change things up there.)

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    This is what we need, It sounds cool and thematically I don't feel like you can get much better. I would main this so fast and probably never swap to another spec because I Can just imagine you with balthazars floating greatsword animation getting ready to pull some "Khorne warrior" Esq shenanigans and rush in for the glory of your gods. The color of this spec should be seafoam as I feel it wouldn't have a red coloring due to the norns colors being primarily blue in nature; Jalis has dark blue and Glint has light blue. Asgeir should either have seafoam, OR since we know the color the scroll he used on his weapon imbues the champion with gold on their weapon and a fire like aura perhaps it could do that for us.

    You should find a way to make a nod to the scroll braham used because it was the same one asgeir used on his weapon, maybe one of the grandmasters could give you a chance on crit to imbue your weapon with its strength and double its damage after five stacks (Striking an enemy five times?) Could be cool. All and All I really love this spec and hope someone from A-net looks at this.

  • Just... your 'lore' of this elite spec would have to go as it does not fit with the Revenant class. Revs should NOT be calling upon the actual Spirits of the Wild; they commune with the Mists and Mist formed echoes, not the spirits. Everything of this class could be done as just channeling Asgeir Dragonrender.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @Thermaltron.6829 said:
    Just... your 'lore' of this elite spec would have to go as it does not fit with the Revenant class. Revs should NOT be calling upon the actual Spirits of the Wild; they commune with the Mists and Mist formed echoes, not the spirits. Everything of this class could be done as just channeling Asgeir Dragonrender.

    No the lore does not, If they call upon asgeir then the spirits would take notice as we would become the incarnation of Asgeri himself and he is the ONLY norn who has ever been granted every spirits favor as well their blessing to the levels he had been. Plus The spirits of the wild are not like gods they do leave ripples in the mists which is evident from the personal story with the norn; The lore is just fine and I think it works perfectly.

    But lets be real....when has A-net EVER let the lore of this franchise stop ANYTHING they do?

  • TheSwede.9512TheSwede.9512 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 18, 2018

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Thermaltron.6829 said:
    Just... your 'lore' of this elite spec would have to go as it does not fit with the Revenant class. Revs should NOT be calling upon the actual Spirits of the Wild; they commune with the Mists and Mist formed echoes, not the spirits. Everything of this class could be done as just channeling Asgeir Dragonrender.

    No the lore does not, If they call upon asgeir then the spirits would take notice as we would become the incarnation of Asgeri himself and he is the ONLY norn who has ever been granted every spirits favor as well their blessing to the levels he had been. Plus The spirits of the wild are not like gods they do leave ripples in the mists which is evident from the personal story with the norn; The lore is just fine and I think it works perfectly.

    But lets be real....when has A-net EVER let the lore of this franchise stop ANYTHING they do?

    Thornwolf is correct here, but part of this is still on me. I worded it in a clumsy manner that pretty much directly implied the Broodslayer communes directly with the Spirits of the Wild, rather than have their attention from channeling Asgeir. It's less a "Chat with the spirits" and more like a "They've got their eyes on you, don't screw this up and you might get a pat on the head" kinda deal.

    Fixed that real quick.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @TheSwede.9512 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Thermaltron.6829 said:
    Just... your 'lore' of this elite spec would have to go as it does not fit with the Revenant class. Revs should NOT be calling upon the actual Spirits of the Wild; they commune with the Mists and Mist formed echoes, not the spirits. Everything of this class could be done as just channeling Asgeir Dragonrender.

    No the lore does not, If they call upon asgeir then the spirits would take notice as we would become the incarnation of Asgeri himself and he is the ONLY norn who has ever been granted every spirits favor as well their blessing to the levels he had been. Plus The spirits of the wild are not like gods they do leave ripples in the mists which is evident from the personal story with the norn; The lore is just fine and I think it works perfectly.

    But lets be real....when has A-net EVER let the lore of this franchise stop ANYTHING they do?

    Thornwolf is correct here, but part of this is still on me. I worded it in a clumsy manner that pretty much directly implied the Broodslayer communes directly with the Spirits of the Wild, rather than have their attention from channeling Asgeir. It's less a "Chat with the spirits" and more like a "They've got their eyes on you, don't screw this up and you might get a pat on the head" kinda deal.

    Fixed that real quick.

    I feel like the spirits being "Present" is enough, But asgeir would be the one your conversing with. I think he could make a very interesting ally and a staltwart companion leading into future events. Make this a power based spec... and there you go we have a buddy that shiro can bunk with in your mind while you slaughter things; Thematically this is the Strongest suggestion I've seen for a legend and the one I hope in its entirety is used.

  • This just looks so kitten cool. Sure anet have to balance it and all that, but overall I would main this until gw3!! Great work! Really hope anet sees this and seriously considers it for our next elite spec.

  • Aigleborgne.2981Aigleborgne.2981 Member ✭✭✭

    I think it would be OP and over complicated but I like the theme and your description is very well written, with a lot of thoughts. Good work 😀

  • Frozey.8513Frozey.8513 Member ✭✭

    Tbh I hope the next elite spec Rev gets will remove the legend swap and put something else in there, making you only use that new legend. While doing that they could add more than just 3 utility skills/1 heal/1 elite to choose from so you could get a bit variance. Like how cool it would be to have a one decent heal skills instead of 2 mediocre ones.

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Frozey.8513 said:
    Tbh I hope the next elite spec Rev gets will remove the legend swap and put something else in there, making you only use that new legend. While doing that they could add more than just 3 utility skills/1 heal/1 elite to choose from so you could get a bit variance. Like how cool it would be to have a one decent heal skills instead of 2 mediocre ones.

    Why do we have to give up Legend swap to have one decent heal skill? Also, robbing it of Legend swap pretty much means that Elite has to be one hell of an Elite because picking that Legend would be pretty much that one Legend and nothing else and if you can't build decent builds off of those extra utility skills then we are looking at a wasted Elite. I think removing Legend swap for an Elite spec gives us less variance, not more.

  • Frozey.8513Frozey.8513 Member ✭✭

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:
    Tbh I hope the next elite spec Rev gets will remove the legend swap and put something else in there, making you only use that new legend. While doing that they could add more than just 3 utility skills/1 heal/1 elite to choose from so you could get a bit variance. Like how cool it would be to have a one decent heal skills instead of 2 mediocre ones.

    Why do we have to give up Legend swap to have one decent heal skill? Also, robbing it of Legend swap pretty much means that Elite has to be one hell of an Elite because picking that Legend would be pretty much that one Legend and nothing else and if you can't build decent builds off of those extra utility skills then we are looking at a wasted Elite. I think removing Legend swap for an Elite spec gives us less variance, not more.

    Because we currently have access to 2 healing skills, which has lead to them being weaker than those of other professions due to obvious reason of not making Rev better than others in that sense. If we also have access to only one heal it would have to be on par with those of the other classes.

    Also with one Legend they could just make it so you Energy always refreshes to 100, and doesn't start at 50.

    I do agree that the Legend would have to be designed very well to work out, but in the current state of Rev I doubt it would be that hard thing to pull off. I don't really care if we get more variance or not, I just want a working Elite so we can finally forget Kalla ever existed.

  • While I would still prefer a villain legend for revenant to bring me back. I LOVE THIS CONCEPT, great job

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Frozey.8513 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:
    Tbh I hope the next elite spec Rev gets will remove the legend swap and put something else in there, making you only use that new legend. While doing that they could add more than just 3 utility skills/1 heal/1 elite to choose from so you could get a bit variance. Like how cool it would be to have a one decent heal skills instead of 2 mediocre ones.

    Why do we have to give up Legend swap to have one decent heal skill? Also, robbing it of Legend swap pretty much means that Elite has to be one hell of an Elite because picking that Legend would be pretty much that one Legend and nothing else and if you can't build decent builds off of those extra utility skills then we are looking at a wasted Elite. I think removing Legend swap for an Elite spec gives us less variance, not more.

    Because we currently have access to 2 healing skills, which has lead to them being weaker than those of other professions due to obvious reason of not making Rev better than others in that sense. If we also have access to only one heal it would have to be on par with those of the other classes.

    Also with one Legend they could just make it so you Energy always refreshes to 100, and doesn't start at 50.

    I do agree that the Legend would have to be designed very well to work out, but in the current state of Rev I doubt it would be that hard thing to pull off. I don't really care if we get more variance or not, I just want a working Elite so we can finally forget Kalla ever existed.

    What you propose locks Revenant into one build and one build only and that build would have to be awesome and amazing for it to be worthwhile. Also, I have seen nothing that indicates that having access to two healing skills has lead to them making them weak skills. Energy goes to 100 in combat so that's not really an issue in most cases. There is also the fact that being stuck in only one Legend doesn't give them any reason to have Energy at 100 at all times. What you propose limits Revenant in worse ways than the profession already faces. If they don't make it into the Legend to be all Legends then we would have just another wasted Legend. I don't want that. Not being locked into a single Legend gives people a chance to actually engage in designing unique builds and not just one build that everyone has to play. What you propose limits the potential Revenant and would lead it to be more subpar than it is currently felt to be.

    Also, Kalla is fun.

  • Frozey.8513Frozey.8513 Member ✭✭

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:
    Tbh I hope the next elite spec Rev gets will remove the legend swap and put something else in there, making you only use that new legend. While doing that they could add more than just 3 utility skills/1 heal/1 elite to choose from so you could get a bit variance. Like how cool it would be to have a one decent heal skills instead of 2 mediocre ones.

    Why do we have to give up Legend swap to have one decent heal skill? Also, robbing it of Legend swap pretty much means that Elite has to be one hell of an Elite because picking that Legend would be pretty much that one Legend and nothing else and if you can't build decent builds off of those extra utility skills then we are looking at a wasted Elite. I think removing Legend swap for an Elite spec gives us less variance, not more.

    Because we currently have access to 2 healing skills, which has lead to them being weaker than those of other professions due to obvious reason of not making Rev better than others in that sense. If we also have access to only one heal it would have to be on par with those of the other classes.

    Also with one Legend they could just make it so you Energy always refreshes to 100, and doesn't start at 50.

    I do agree that the Legend would have to be designed very well to work out, but in the current state of Rev I doubt it would be that hard thing to pull off. I don't really care if we get more variance or not, I just want a working Elite so we can finally forget Kalla ever existed.

    What you propose locks Revenant into one build and one build only and that build would have to be awesome and amazing for it to be worthwhile. Also, I have seen nothing that indicates that having access to two healing skills has lead to them making them weak skills. Energy goes to 100 in combat so that's not really an issue in most cases. There is also the fact that being stuck in only one Legend doesn't give them any reason to have Energy at 100 at all times. What you propose limits Revenant in worse ways than the profession already faces. If they don't make it into the Legend to be all Legends then we would have just another wasted Legend. I don't want that. Not being locked into a single Legend gives people a chance to actually engage in designing unique builds and not just one build that everyone has to play. What you propose limits the potential Revenant and would lead it to be more subpar than it is currently felt to be.

    Also, Kalla is fun.

    I don't see at all how being able to choose your 6-10 slot skills could in anyway limit Rev into one build and one build only. Also what comes to the healing skills they are not as strong as what other classes have, for the obvious reason that we get 2 of them. Being able to choose all your utility would only make Rev more diverse, rather than limiting it to one build as you stated.

    Energy goes to 100 in combat yeah, but it starting from 50 instead of 100 lowers the burst potential initially. Starting from 50 with a legend swap makes sense but having one legends shouldn't need such limitation. Perhaps in this case also giving extra energy regeneration options could be possible.

    You don't want this and that is totally okay, but that doesn't mean everyone else feel the same.

    And yeah Kalla is fun, it's just not working.

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 27, 2018

    @Frozey.8513 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:
    Tbh I hope the next elite spec Rev gets will remove the legend swap and put something else in there, making you only use that new legend. While doing that they could add more than just 3 utility skills/1 heal/1 elite to choose from so you could get a bit variance. Like how cool it would be to have a one decent heal skills instead of 2 mediocre ones.

    Why do we have to give up Legend swap to have one decent heal skill? Also, robbing it of Legend swap pretty much means that Elite has to be one hell of an Elite because picking that Legend would be pretty much that one Legend and nothing else and if you can't build decent builds off of those extra utility skills then we are looking at a wasted Elite. I think removing Legend swap for an Elite spec gives us less variance, not more.

    Because we currently have access to 2 healing skills, which has lead to them being weaker than those of other professions due to obvious reason of not making Rev better than others in that sense. If we also have access to only one heal it would have to be on par with those of the other classes.

    Also with one Legend they could just make it so you Energy always refreshes to 100, and doesn't start at 50.

    I do agree that the Legend would have to be designed very well to work out, but in the current state of Rev I doubt it would be that hard thing to pull off. I don't really care if we get more variance or not, I just want a working Elite so we can finally forget Kalla ever existed.

    What you propose locks Revenant into one build and one build only and that build would have to be awesome and amazing for it to be worthwhile. Also, I have seen nothing that indicates that having access to two healing skills has lead to them making them weak skills. Energy goes to 100 in combat so that's not really an issue in most cases. There is also the fact that being stuck in only one Legend doesn't give them any reason to have Energy at 100 at all times. What you propose limits Revenant in worse ways than the profession already faces. If they don't make it into the Legend to be all Legends then we would have just another wasted Legend. I don't want that. Not being locked into a single Legend gives people a chance to actually engage in designing unique builds and not just one build that everyone has to play. What you propose limits the potential Revenant and would lead it to be more subpar than it is currently felt to be.

    Also, Kalla is fun.

    I don't see at all how being able to choose your 6-10 slot skills could in anyway limit Rev into one build and one build only. Also what comes to the healing skills they are not as strong as what other classes have, for the obvious reason that we get 2 of them. Being able to choose all your utility would only make Rev more diverse, rather than limiting it to one build as you stated.

    Energy goes to 100 in combat yeah, but it starting from 50 instead of 100 lowers the burst potential initially. Starting from 50 with a legend swap makes sense but having one legends shouldn't need such limitation. Perhaps in this case also giving extra energy regeneration options could be possible.

    You don't want this and that is totally okay, but that doesn't mean everyone else feel the same.

    And yeah Kalla is fun, it's just not working.

    Other professions have a variety in builds due to the fact that they are making use of all their mechanics in order to build their differing builds. What you propose pretty much locks Revenant into a singular set of builds that don't interact with the rest of its mechanics like the other professions do. Other Elites allow a profession to build on top of what the core offers. This offers only building with the handful of skills it would have without any true interaction with the rest of the profession. That automatically limits the number of possible builds to pretty much be whatever the build the Elite had in mind to support. There would be no tinkering or experimenting. Just whatever those 6 or so skills offered. The Elite would lack synergy with the rest of the profession mechanics. Which is why it would be locked into only one build. Those skills would have to be focused tightly on the role of the Elite. You need those 6 to 10 utility skills to be tightly focused in order to get a working build. If they waver too much from the core idea of the Elite then you are just going to have 6 to 10 subpart skills. This problem would be heightened as those 6 to 10 skills need to have synergy with just themselves and nothing else, unlike other professions that have more wiggle room. And with only 6 to 10 skills to work with you really are only looking at 1 or 2 builds.

    As for your healing skills, that's a guess not supported by much of anything. It could just as easily be the case that you feel the healing skills are subpar due to the fact that one of the Legends is pretty much nothing but healing skills and if healing were really an issue a player could swap into that Legend. So no, it is not obvious reasons. And I have some serious doubts that having energy starting at 50 prevents burst damage.

    Limiting the profession to just one Legend in no way creates more diversity as you lock the profession out of the entirety of its other Legend mechanics. Reducing Revenant's diversity to just utility skill choice limits the profession as it wasn't built on the idea that utility skill choice creates the diversity but that the skill/Legend interaction created its diversity. Which brings me back to, this would have to be one hell of a Legend or it would be a bigger wasted Elite than what Revenant already has. You can't remove 80% of the profession and then say the remaining 20% is actually more diverse than it would be had it remained at 100%.

  • Frozey.8513Frozey.8513 Member ✭✭
    edited July 27, 2018

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:
    Tbh I hope the next elite spec Rev gets will remove the legend swap and put something else in there, making you only use that new legend. While doing that they could add more than just 3 utility skills/1 heal/1 elite to choose from so you could get a bit variance. Like how cool it would be to have a one decent heal skills instead of 2 mediocre ones.

    Why do we have to give up Legend swap to have one decent heal skill? Also, robbing it of Legend swap pretty much means that Elite has to be one hell of an Elite because picking that Legend would be pretty much that one Legend and nothing else and if you can't build decent builds off of those extra utility skills then we are looking at a wasted Elite. I think removing Legend swap for an Elite spec gives us less variance, not more.

    Because we currently have access to 2 healing skills, which has lead to them being weaker than those of other professions due to obvious reason of not making Rev better than others in that sense. If we also have access to only one heal it would have to be on par with those of the other classes.

    Also with one Legend they could just make it so you Energy always refreshes to 100, and doesn't start at 50.

    I do agree that the Legend would have to be designed very well to work out, but in the current state of Rev I doubt it would be that hard thing to pull off. I don't really care if we get more variance or not, I just want a working Elite so we can finally forget Kalla ever existed.

    What you propose locks Revenant into one build and one build only and that build would have to be awesome and amazing for it to be worthwhile. Also, I have seen nothing that indicates that having access to two healing skills has lead to them making them weak skills. Energy goes to 100 in combat so that's not really an issue in most cases. There is also the fact that being stuck in only one Legend doesn't give them any reason to have Energy at 100 at all times. What you propose limits Revenant in worse ways than the profession already faces. If they don't make it into the Legend to be all Legends then we would have just another wasted Legend. I don't want that. Not being locked into a single Legend gives people a chance to actually engage in designing unique builds and not just one build that everyone has to play. What you propose limits the potential Revenant and would lead it to be more subpar than it is currently felt to be.

    Also, Kalla is fun.

    I don't see at all how being able to choose your 6-10 slot skills could in anyway limit Rev into one build and one build only. Also what comes to the healing skills they are not as strong as what other classes have, for the obvious reason that we get 2 of them. Being able to choose all your utility would only make Rev more diverse, rather than limiting it to one build as you stated.

    Energy goes to 100 in combat yeah, but it starting from 50 instead of 100 lowers the burst potential initially. Starting from 50 with a legend swap makes sense but having one legends shouldn't need such limitation. Perhaps in this case also giving extra energy regeneration options could be possible.

    You don't want this and that is totally okay, but that doesn't mean everyone else feel the same.

    And yeah Kalla is fun, it's just not working.

    Other professions have a variety in builds due to the fact that they are making use of all their mechanics in order to build their differing builds. What you propose pretty much locks Revenant into a singular set of builds that don't interact with the rest of its mechanics like the other professions do. Other Elites allow a profession to build on top of what the core offers. This offers only building with the handful of skills it would have without any true interaction with the rest of the profession. That automatically limits the number of possible builds to pretty much be whatever the build the Elite had in mind to support. There would be no tinkering or experimenting. Just whatever those 6 or so skills offered. The Elite would lack synergy with the rest of the profession mechanics. Which is why it would be locked into only one build. Those skills would have to be focused tightly on the role of the Elite. You need those 6 to 10 utility skills to be tightly focused in order to get a working build. If they waver too much from the core idea of the Elite then you are just going to have 6 to 10 subpart skills. This problem would be heightened as those 6 to 10 skills need to have synergy with just themselves and nothing else, unlike other professions that have more wiggle room. And with only 6 to 10 skills to work with you really are only looking at 1 or 2 builds.

    As for your healing skills, that's a guess not supported by much of anything. It could just as easily be the case that you feel the healing skills are subpar due to the fact that one of the Legends is pretty much nothing but healing skills and if healing were really an issue a player could swap into that Legend. So no, it is not obvious reasons. And I have some serious doubts that having energy starting at 50 prevents burst damage.

    Limiting the profession to just one Legend in no way creates more diversity as you lock the profession out of the entirety of its other Legend mechanics. Reducing Revenant's diversity to just utility skill choice limits the profession as it wasn't built on the idea that utility skill choice creates the diversity but that the skill/Legend interaction created its diversity. Which brings me back to, this would have to be one hell of a Legend or it would be a bigger wasted Elite than what Revenant already has. You can't remove 80% of the profession and then say the remaining 20% is actually more diverse than it would be had it remained at 100%.

    You are welcome to feel that way, but I hardly can agree on any of your arguments.

    One way to take existing skills into this is make the legend be able to choose from all of them, with legend adding some nice effects making them better to justify over having 3 utilities instead of 6. I never once stated in my previous posts I would limit this legend to only one elite, they should take multiple ones unless they can come up with something so universally great that it works with everything.

    Saying my healing skill argument is just a guess not supported by anything is fine, but can you backup that claim by facts? I doubt you can.

    Boosting Revenant to be able to focus on just one Legend with some actual choices of what you want to make your build for would in my opinion make Rev more diverse, unlike what you make claims for. I suppose we have to agree to disagree on this matter, but I'm glad you took your time to write your opinion over this suggestion. Thanks.

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 27, 2018

    @Frozey.8513 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:
    Tbh I hope the next elite spec Rev gets will remove the legend swap and put something else in there, making you only use that new legend. While doing that they could add more than just 3 utility skills/1 heal/1 elite to choose from so you could get a bit variance. Like how cool it would be to have a one decent heal skills instead of 2 mediocre ones.

    Why do we have to give up Legend swap to have one decent heal skill? Also, robbing it of Legend swap pretty much means that Elite has to be one hell of an Elite because picking that Legend would be pretty much that one Legend and nothing else and if you can't build decent builds off of those extra utility skills then we are looking at a wasted Elite. I think removing Legend swap for an Elite spec gives us less variance, not more.

    Because we currently have access to 2 healing skills, which has lead to them being weaker than those of other professions due to obvious reason of not making Rev better than others in that sense. If we also have access to only one heal it would have to be on par with those of the other classes.

    Also with one Legend they could just make it so you Energy always refreshes to 100, and doesn't start at 50.

    I do agree that the Legend would have to be designed very well to work out, but in the current state of Rev I doubt it would be that hard thing to pull off. I don't really care if we get more variance or not, I just want a working Elite so we can finally forget Kalla ever existed.

    What you propose locks Revenant into one build and one build only and that build would have to be awesome and amazing for it to be worthwhile. Also, I have seen nothing that indicates that having access to two healing skills has lead to them making them weak skills. Energy goes to 100 in combat so that's not really an issue in most cases. There is also the fact that being stuck in only one Legend doesn't give them any reason to have Energy at 100 at all times. What you propose limits Revenant in worse ways than the profession already faces. If they don't make it into the Legend to be all Legends then we would have just another wasted Legend. I don't want that. Not being locked into a single Legend gives people a chance to actually engage in designing unique builds and not just one build that everyone has to play. What you propose limits the potential Revenant and would lead it to be more subpar than it is currently felt to be.

    Also, Kalla is fun.

    I don't see at all how being able to choose your 6-10 slot skills could in anyway limit Rev into one build and one build only. Also what comes to the healing skills they are not as strong as what other classes have, for the obvious reason that we get 2 of them. Being able to choose all your utility would only make Rev more diverse, rather than limiting it to one build as you stated.

    Energy goes to 100 in combat yeah, but it starting from 50 instead of 100 lowers the burst potential initially. Starting from 50 with a legend swap makes sense but having one legends shouldn't need such limitation. Perhaps in this case also giving extra energy regeneration options could be possible.

    You don't want this and that is totally okay, but that doesn't mean everyone else feel the same.

    And yeah Kalla is fun, it's just not working.

    Other professions have a variety in builds due to the fact that they are making use of all their mechanics in order to build their differing builds. What you propose pretty much locks Revenant into a singular set of builds that don't interact with the rest of its mechanics like the other professions do. Other Elites allow a profession to build on top of what the core offers. This offers only building with the handful of skills it would have without any true interaction with the rest of the profession. That automatically limits the number of possible builds to pretty much be whatever the build the Elite had in mind to support. There would be no tinkering or experimenting. Just whatever those 6 or so skills offered. The Elite would lack synergy with the rest of the profession mechanics. Which is why it would be locked into only one build. Those skills would have to be focused tightly on the role of the Elite. You need those 6 to 10 utility skills to be tightly focused in order to get a working build. If they waver too much from the core idea of the Elite then you are just going to have 6 to 10 subpart skills. This problem would be heightened as those 6 to 10 skills need to have synergy with just themselves and nothing else, unlike other professions that have more wiggle room. And with only 6 to 10 skills to work with you really are only looking at 1 or 2 builds.

    As for your healing skills, that's a guess not supported by much of anything. It could just as easily be the case that you feel the healing skills are subpar due to the fact that one of the Legends is pretty much nothing but healing skills and if healing were really an issue a player could swap into that Legend. So no, it is not obvious reasons. And I have some serious doubts that having energy starting at 50 prevents burst damage.

    Limiting the profession to just one Legend in no way creates more diversity as you lock the profession out of the entirety of its other Legend mechanics. Reducing Revenant's diversity to just utility skill choice limits the profession as it wasn't built on the idea that utility skill choice creates the diversity but that the skill/Legend interaction created its diversity. Which brings me back to, this would have to be one hell of a Legend or it would be a bigger wasted Elite than what Revenant already has. You can't remove 80% of the profession and then say the remaining 20% is actually more diverse than it would be had it remained at 100%.

    You are welcome to feel that way, but I hardly can agree on any of your arguments.

    One way to take existing skills into this is make the legend be able to choose from all of them, with legend adding some nice effects making them better to justify over having 3 utilities instead of 6. I never once stated in my previous posts I would limit this legend to only one elite, they should take multiple ones unless they can come up with something so universally great that it works with everything.

    Saying my healing skill argument is just a guess not supported by anything is fine, but can you backup that claim by facts? I doubt you can.

    Boosting Revenant to be able to focus on just one Legend with some actual choices of what you want to make your build for would in my opinion make Rev more diverse, unlike what you make claims for. I suppose we have to agree to disagree on this matter, but I'm glad you took your time to write your opinion over this suggestion. Thanks.

    Aaaaaaaah I get it. You want Revenant to stop being Revenant. Gotcha. Strip Revenant of everything that makes it Revenant by giving it one mega Legend that gives it access to everything that the profession has (including other Elites which other professions don't get access to but hey who cares about game balance when we are tossing out how the profession actually works). Why bother playing Revenant if you basically want to rob Revenant of the things that make it unique? It certinatly isn't for game balance.

    Also, I really don't need to back my position on healing skill with facts. The burden of proof on the matter is on you since you are the one to make the claim that having two healing skills was the reason why healing skills were subpar. I just challenged that position and offered up an equally plausible reason. I really don't need to prove that point since I didn't make the initial claim about why the healing skills worked the way the did. The only person who would need facts on that matter is you. I just have to question it.

  • Frozey.8513Frozey.8513 Member ✭✭
    edited July 27, 2018

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:
    Tbh I hope the next elite spec Rev gets will remove the legend swap and put something else in there, making you only use that new legend. While doing that they could add more than just 3 utility skills/1 heal/1 elite to choose from so you could get a bit variance. Like how cool it would be to have a one decent heal skills instead of 2 mediocre ones.

    Why do we have to give up Legend swap to have one decent heal skill? Also, robbing it of Legend swap pretty much means that Elite has to be one hell of an Elite because picking that Legend would be pretty much that one Legend and nothing else and if you can't build decent builds off of those extra utility skills then we are looking at a wasted Elite. I think removing Legend swap for an Elite spec gives us less variance, not more.

    Because we currently have access to 2 healing skills, which has lead to them being weaker than those of other professions due to obvious reason of not making Rev better than others in that sense. If we also have access to only one heal it would have to be on par with those of the other classes.

    Also with one Legend they could just make it so you Energy always refreshes to 100, and doesn't start at 50.

    I do agree that the Legend would have to be designed very well to work out, but in the current state of Rev I doubt it would be that hard thing to pull off. I don't really care if we get more variance or not, I just want a working Elite so we can finally forget Kalla ever existed.

    What you propose locks Revenant into one build and one build only and that build would have to be awesome and amazing for it to be worthwhile. Also, I have seen nothing that indicates that having access to two healing skills has lead to them making them weak skills. Energy goes to 100 in combat so that's not really an issue in most cases. There is also the fact that being stuck in only one Legend doesn't give them any reason to have Energy at 100 at all times. What you propose limits Revenant in worse ways than the profession already faces. If they don't make it into the Legend to be all Legends then we would have just another wasted Legend. I don't want that. Not being locked into a single Legend gives people a chance to actually engage in designing unique builds and not just one build that everyone has to play. What you propose limits the potential Revenant and would lead it to be more subpar than it is currently felt to be.

    Also, Kalla is fun.

    I don't see at all how being able to choose your 6-10 slot skills could in anyway limit Rev into one build and one build only. Also what comes to the healing skills they are not as strong as what other classes have, for the obvious reason that we get 2 of them. Being able to choose all your utility would only make Rev more diverse, rather than limiting it to one build as you stated.

    Energy goes to 100 in combat yeah, but it starting from 50 instead of 100 lowers the burst potential initially. Starting from 50 with a legend swap makes sense but having one legends shouldn't need such limitation. Perhaps in this case also giving extra energy regeneration options could be possible.

    You don't want this and that is totally okay, but that doesn't mean everyone else feel the same.

    And yeah Kalla is fun, it's just not working.

    Other professions have a variety in builds due to the fact that they are making use of all their mechanics in order to build their differing builds. What you propose pretty much locks Revenant into a singular set of builds that don't interact with the rest of its mechanics like the other professions do. Other Elites allow a profession to build on top of what the core offers. This offers only building with the handful of skills it would have without any true interaction with the rest of the profession. That automatically limits the number of possible builds to pretty much be whatever the build the Elite had in mind to support. There would be no tinkering or experimenting. Just whatever those 6 or so skills offered. The Elite would lack synergy with the rest of the profession mechanics. Which is why it would be locked into only one build. Those skills would have to be focused tightly on the role of the Elite. You need those 6 to 10 utility skills to be tightly focused in order to get a working build. If they waver too much from the core idea of the Elite then you are just going to have 6 to 10 subpart skills. This problem would be heightened as those 6 to 10 skills need to have synergy with just themselves and nothing else, unlike other professions that have more wiggle room. And with only 6 to 10 skills to work with you really are only looking at 1 or 2 builds.

    As for your healing skills, that's a guess not supported by much of anything. It could just as easily be the case that you feel the healing skills are subpar due to the fact that one of the Legends is pretty much nothing but healing skills and if healing were really an issue a player could swap into that Legend. So no, it is not obvious reasons. And I have some serious doubts that having energy starting at 50 prevents burst damage.

    Limiting the profession to just one Legend in no way creates more diversity as you lock the profession out of the entirety of its other Legend mechanics. Reducing Revenant's diversity to just utility skill choice limits the profession as it wasn't built on the idea that utility skill choice creates the diversity but that the skill/Legend interaction created its diversity. Which brings me back to, this would have to be one hell of a Legend or it would be a bigger wasted Elite than what Revenant already has. You can't remove 80% of the profession and then say the remaining 20% is actually more diverse than it would be had it remained at 100%.

    You are welcome to feel that way, but I hardly can agree on any of your arguments.

    One way to take existing skills into this is make the legend be able to choose from all of them, with legend adding some nice effects making them better to justify over having 3 utilities instead of 6. I never once stated in my previous posts I would limit this legend to only one elite, they should take multiple ones unless they can come up with something so universally great that it works with everything.

    Saying my healing skill argument is just a guess not supported by anything is fine, but can you backup that claim by facts? I doubt you can.

    Boosting Revenant to be able to focus on just one Legend with some actual choices of what you want to make your build for would in my opinion make Rev more diverse, unlike what you make claims for. I suppose we have to agree to disagree on this matter, but I'm glad you took your time to write your opinion over this suggestion. Thanks.

    Aaaaaaaah I get it. You want Revenant to stop being Revenant. Gotcha. Strip Revenant of everything that makes it Revenant by giving it one mega Legend that gives it access to everything that the profession has (including other Elites which other professions don't get access to but hey who cares about game balance when we are tossing out how the profession actually works). Why bother playing Revenant if you basically want to rob Revenant of the things that make it unique? It certinatly isn't for game balance.

    Also, I really don't need to back my position on healing skill with facts. The burden of proof on the matter is on you since you are the one to make the claim that having two healing skills was the reason why healing skills were subpar. I just challenged that position and offered up an equally plausible reason. I really don't need to prove that point since I didn't make the initial claim about why the healing skills worked the way the did. The only person who would need facts on that matter is you. I just have to question it.

    I'm sorry if my post triggered you in anyway, reading your respond makes me feel you might be a bit upset because of it.

    Alas as I previously already stated, it's very clear we don't agree on this matter so without further arguing let's leave it here shall we. Thanks.

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Frozey.8513 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:
    Tbh I hope the next elite spec Rev gets will remove the legend swap and put something else in there, making you only use that new legend. While doing that they could add more than just 3 utility skills/1 heal/1 elite to choose from so you could get a bit variance. Like how cool it would be to have a one decent heal skills instead of 2 mediocre ones.

    Why do we have to give up Legend swap to have one decent heal skill? Also, robbing it of Legend swap pretty much means that Elite has to be one hell of an Elite because picking that Legend would be pretty much that one Legend and nothing else and if you can't build decent builds off of those extra utility skills then we are looking at a wasted Elite. I think removing Legend swap for an Elite spec gives us less variance, not more.

    Because we currently have access to 2 healing skills, which has lead to them being weaker than those of other professions due to obvious reason of not making Rev better than others in that sense. If we also have access to only one heal it would have to be on par with those of the other classes.

    Also with one Legend they could just make it so you Energy always refreshes to 100, and doesn't start at 50.

    I do agree that the Legend would have to be designed very well to work out, but in the current state of Rev I doubt it would be that hard thing to pull off. I don't really care if we get more variance or not, I just want a working Elite so we can finally forget Kalla ever existed.

    What you propose locks Revenant into one build and one build only and that build would have to be awesome and amazing for it to be worthwhile. Also, I have seen nothing that indicates that having access to two healing skills has lead to them making them weak skills. Energy goes to 100 in combat so that's not really an issue in most cases. There is also the fact that being stuck in only one Legend doesn't give them any reason to have Energy at 100 at all times. What you propose limits Revenant in worse ways than the profession already faces. If they don't make it into the Legend to be all Legends then we would have just another wasted Legend. I don't want that. Not being locked into a single Legend gives people a chance to actually engage in designing unique builds and not just one build that everyone has to play. What you propose limits the potential Revenant and would lead it to be more subpar than it is currently felt to be.

    Also, Kalla is fun.

    I don't see at all how being able to choose your 6-10 slot skills could in anyway limit Rev into one build and one build only. Also what comes to the healing skills they are not as strong as what other classes have, for the obvious reason that we get 2 of them. Being able to choose all your utility would only make Rev more diverse, rather than limiting it to one build as you stated.

    Energy goes to 100 in combat yeah, but it starting from 50 instead of 100 lowers the burst potential initially. Starting from 50 with a legend swap makes sense but having one legends shouldn't need such limitation. Perhaps in this case also giving extra energy regeneration options could be possible.

    You don't want this and that is totally okay, but that doesn't mean everyone else feel the same.

    And yeah Kalla is fun, it's just not working.

    Other professions have a variety in builds due to the fact that they are making use of all their mechanics in order to build their differing builds. What you propose pretty much locks Revenant into a singular set of builds that don't interact with the rest of its mechanics like the other professions do. Other Elites allow a profession to build on top of what the core offers. This offers only building with the handful of skills it would have without any true interaction with the rest of the profession. That automatically limits the number of possible builds to pretty much be whatever the build the Elite had in mind to support. There would be no tinkering or experimenting. Just whatever those 6 or so skills offered. The Elite would lack synergy with the rest of the profession mechanics. Which is why it would be locked into only one build. Those skills would have to be focused tightly on the role of the Elite. You need those 6 to 10 utility skills to be tightly focused in order to get a working build. If they waver too much from the core idea of the Elite then you are just going to have 6 to 10 subpart skills. This problem would be heightened as those 6 to 10 skills need to have synergy with just themselves and nothing else, unlike other professions that have more wiggle room. And with only 6 to 10 skills to work with you really are only looking at 1 or 2 builds.

    As for your healing skills, that's a guess not supported by much of anything. It could just as easily be the case that you feel the healing skills are subpar due to the fact that one of the Legends is pretty much nothing but healing skills and if healing were really an issue a player could swap into that Legend. So no, it is not obvious reasons. And I have some serious doubts that having energy starting at 50 prevents burst damage.

    Limiting the profession to just one Legend in no way creates more diversity as you lock the profession out of the entirety of its other Legend mechanics. Reducing Revenant's diversity to just utility skill choice limits the profession as it wasn't built on the idea that utility skill choice creates the diversity but that the skill/Legend interaction created its diversity. Which brings me back to, this would have to be one hell of a Legend or it would be a bigger wasted Elite than what Revenant already has. You can't remove 80% of the profession and then say the remaining 20% is actually more diverse than it would be had it remained at 100%.

    You are welcome to feel that way, but I hardly can agree on any of your arguments.

    One way to take existing skills into this is make the legend be able to choose from all of them, with legend adding some nice effects making them better to justify over having 3 utilities instead of 6. I never once stated in my previous posts I would limit this legend to only one elite, they should take multiple ones unless they can come up with something so universally great that it works with everything.

    Saying my healing skill argument is just a guess not supported by anything is fine, but can you backup that claim by facts? I doubt you can.

    Boosting Revenant to be able to focus on just one Legend with some actual choices of what you want to make your build for would in my opinion make Rev more diverse, unlike what you make claims for. I suppose we have to agree to disagree on this matter, but I'm glad you took your time to write your opinion over this suggestion. Thanks.

    Aaaaaaaah I get it. You want Revenant to stop being Revenant. Gotcha. Strip Revenant of everything that makes it Revenant by giving it one mega Legend that gives it access to everything that the profession has (including other Elites which other professions don't get access to but hey who cares about game balance when we are tossing out how the profession actually works). Why bother playing Revenant if you basically want to rob Revenant of the things that make it unique? It certainly isn't for game balance.

    Also, I really don't need to back my position on healing skill with facts. The burden of proof on the matter is on you since you are the one to make the claim that having two healing skills was the reason why healing skills were subpar. I just challenged that position and offered up an equally plausible reason. I really don't need to prove that point since I didn't make the initial claim about why the healing skills worked the way the did. The only person who would need facts on that matter is you. I just have to question it.

    I'm sorry if my post triggered you in anyway, reading your respond makes me feel you might be a bit upset because of it.

    Alas as I previously already stated, it's very clear we don't agree on this matter so without further arguing let's leave it here shall we. Thanks.

    Why would I be upset? There is exactly zero reason to be upset over an idea that would never see the light of day. I'm merely pointing out the flaws in the logic presented thus far. It's fine if you can't defend the idea but really why suggest an Elite that pretty much strips Revenant of everything that makes it Revenant if you can't justify the logic being used? I just naturally assumed that you could defend your idea since you posted it for others to read and judge.

  • Frozey.8513Frozey.8513 Member ✭✭

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Frozey.8513 said:
    Tbh I hope the next elite spec Rev gets will remove the legend swap and put something else in there, making you only use that new legend. While doing that they could add more than just 3 utility skills/1 heal/1 elite to choose from so you could get a bit variance. Like how cool it would be to have a one decent heal skills instead of 2 mediocre ones.

    Why do we have to give up Legend swap to have one decent heal skill? Also, robbing it of Legend swap pretty much means that Elite has to be one hell of an Elite because picking that Legend would be pretty much that one Legend and nothing else and if you can't build decent builds off of those extra utility skills then we are looking at a wasted Elite. I think removing Legend swap for an Elite spec gives us less variance, not more.

    Because we currently have access to 2 healing skills, which has lead to them being weaker than those of other professions due to obvious reason of not making Rev better than others in that sense. If we also have access to only one heal it would have to be on par with those of the other classes.

    Also with one Legend they could just make it so you Energy always refreshes to 100, and doesn't start at 50.

    I do agree that the Legend would have to be designed very well to work out, but in the current state of Rev I doubt it would be that hard thing to pull off. I don't really care if we get more variance or not, I just want a working Elite so we can finally forget Kalla ever existed.

    What you propose locks Revenant into one build and one build only and that build would have to be awesome and amazing for it to be worthwhile. Also, I have seen nothing that indicates that having access to two healing skills has lead to them making them weak skills. Energy goes to 100 in combat so that's not really an issue in most cases. There is also the fact that being stuck in only one Legend doesn't give them any reason to have Energy at 100 at all times. What you propose limits Revenant in worse ways than the profession already faces. If they don't make it into the Legend to be all Legends then we would have just another wasted Legend. I don't want that. Not being locked into a single Legend gives people a chance to actually engage in designing unique builds and not just one build that everyone has to play. What you propose limits the potential Revenant and would lead it to be more subpar than it is currently felt to be.

    Also, Kalla is fun.

    I don't see at all how being able to choose your 6-10 slot skills could in anyway limit Rev into one build and one build only. Also what comes to the healing skills they are not as strong as what other classes have, for the obvious reason that we get 2 of them. Being able to choose all your utility would only make Rev more diverse, rather than limiting it to one build as you stated.

    Energy goes to 100 in combat yeah, but it starting from 50 instead of 100 lowers the burst potential initially. Starting from 50 with a legend swap makes sense but having one legends shouldn't need such limitation. Perhaps in this case also giving extra energy regeneration options could be possible.

    You don't want this and that is totally okay, but that doesn't mean everyone else feel the same.

    And yeah Kalla is fun, it's just not working.

    Other professions have a variety in builds due to the fact that they are making use of all their mechanics in order to build their differing builds. What you propose pretty much locks Revenant into a singular set of builds that don't interact with the rest of its mechanics like the other professions do. Other Elites allow a profession to build on top of what the core offers. This offers only building with the handful of skills it would have without any true interaction with the rest of the profession. That automatically limits the number of possible builds to pretty much be whatever the build the Elite had in mind to support. There would be no tinkering or experimenting. Just whatever those 6 or so skills offered. The Elite would lack synergy with the rest of the profession mechanics. Which is why it would be locked into only one build. Those skills would have to be focused tightly on the role of the Elite. You need those 6 to 10 utility skills to be tightly focused in order to get a working build. If they waver too much from the core idea of the Elite then you are just going to have 6 to 10 subpart skills. This problem would be heightened as those 6 to 10 skills need to have synergy with just themselves and nothing else, unlike other professions that have more wiggle room. And with only 6 to 10 skills to work with you really are only looking at 1 or 2 builds.

    As for your healing skills, that's a guess not supported by much of anything. It could just as easily be the case that you feel the healing skills are subpar due to the fact that one of the Legends is pretty much nothing but healing skills and if healing were really an issue a player could swap into that Legend. So no, it is not obvious reasons. And I have some serious doubts that having energy starting at 50 prevents burst damage.

    Limiting the profession to just one Legend in no way creates more diversity as you lock the profession out of the entirety of its other Legend mechanics. Reducing Revenant's diversity to just utility skill choice limits the profession as it wasn't built on the idea that utility skill choice creates the diversity but that the skill/Legend interaction created its diversity. Which brings me back to, this would have to be one hell of a Legend or it would be a bigger wasted Elite than what Revenant already has. You can't remove 80% of the profession and then say the remaining 20% is actually more diverse than it would be had it remained at 100%.

    You are welcome to feel that way, but I hardly can agree on any of your arguments.

    One way to take existing skills into this is make the legend be able to choose from all of them, with legend adding some nice effects making them better to justify over having 3 utilities instead of 6. I never once stated in my previous posts I would limit this legend to only one elite, they should take multiple ones unless they can come up with something so universally great that it works with everything.

    Saying my healing skill argument is just a guess not supported by anything is fine, but can you backup that claim by facts? I doubt you can.

    Boosting Revenant to be able to focus on just one Legend with some actual choices of what you want to make your build for would in my opinion make Rev more diverse, unlike what you make claims for. I suppose we have to agree to disagree on this matter, but I'm glad you took your time to write your opinion over this suggestion. Thanks.

    Aaaaaaaah I get it. You want Revenant to stop being Revenant. Gotcha. Strip Revenant of everything that makes it Revenant by giving it one mega Legend that gives it access to everything that the profession has (including other Elites which other professions don't get access to but hey who cares about game balance when we are tossing out how the profession actually works). Why bother playing Revenant if you basically want to rob Revenant of the things that make it unique? It certainly isn't for game balance.

    Also, I really don't need to back my position on healing skill with facts. The burden of proof on the matter is on you since you are the one to make the claim that having two healing skills was the reason why healing skills were subpar. I just challenged that position and offered up an equally plausible reason. I really don't need to prove that point since I didn't make the initial claim about why the healing skills worked the way the did. The only person who would need facts on that matter is you. I just have to question it.

    I'm sorry if my post triggered you in anyway, reading your respond makes me feel you might be a bit upset because of it.

    Alas as I previously already stated, it's very clear we don't agree on this matter so without further arguing let's leave it here shall we. Thanks.

    Why would I be upset? There is exactly zero reason to be upset over an idea that would never see the light of day. I'm merely pointing out the flaws in the logic presented thus far. It's fine if you can't defend the idea but really why suggest an Elite that pretty much strips Revenant of everything that makes it Revenant if you can't justify the logic being used? I just naturally assumed that you could defend your idea since you posted it for others to read and judge.

    I made my points in my previous posts already why I think it's good and why I don't agree with the arguments you made before.

    Since we clearly don't agree even on the basics I don't see any point trying to change your mind on the subject as you haven't been able to change mine either. It's not about not being able to defend, it's about choosing not to point out same arguments over and over again in a thread dedicated to a completely different Elite spec suggestion. We don't agree and that is fine, my opinion on the matter has not been changed by your arguments. So let's leave it here, thanks.

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