Broken game — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Broken game

brunoam.7391brunoam.7391 Member ✭✭

I'd like to know what leads a people to using meme builds in high-ranking ranked games. Among the many matches I played today I could find holosmith condition, renegade, ranger condition, scrapper, deadeye condition, etc. A person who is playing to win should never play with who is playing to make gold !! Arenanet, you need to revise this, that way it does not work. Put awards in the unranked games to avoid this type of problem and, most importantly, improve this balancing as urgently as possible !!

<1

Comments

  • @brunoam.7391 said:
    I'd like to know what leads a people to using meme builds in high-ranking ranked games. Among the many matches I played today I could find holosmith condition, renegade, ranger condition, scrapper, deadeye condition, etc. A person who is playing to win should never play with who is playing to make gold !! Arenanet, you need to revise this, that way it does not work. Put awards in the unranked games to avoid this type of problem and, most importantly, improve this balancing as urgently as possible !!

    Rewards in unranked won't stop people determined to use odd builds in ranked from using odd builds in ranked.

    [Indifferent Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [Every PvP game has bad balance because every PvP game has bad players.]

  • brunoam.7391brunoam.7391 Member ✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @brunoam.7391 said:
    I'd like to know what leads a people to using meme builds in high-ranking ranked games. Among the many matches I played today I could find holosmith condition, renegade, ranger condition, scrapper, deadeye condition, etc. A person who is playing to win should never play with who is playing to make gold !! Arenanet, you need to revise this, that way it does not work. Put awards in the unranked games to avoid this type of problem and, most importantly, improve this balancing as urgently as possible !!

    Rewards in unranked won't stop people determined to use odd builds in ranked from using odd builds in ranked.

    That's not the point. The point is that if such a measure is taken then these problems would not happen so often. You do not have to think about solving the problem 100%, but on reducing the existing problem.

  • Gamble.4580Gamble.4580 Member ✭✭

    This is how meta changes lol, a person will remake a build do well set a role and poeple will copy. I welcome this as long as the build has a role and is needed with the comp u have.

  • @brunoam.7391 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @brunoam.7391 said:
    I'd like to know what leads a people to using meme builds in high-ranking ranked games. Among the many matches I played today I could find holosmith condition, renegade, ranger condition, scrapper, deadeye condition, etc. A person who is playing to win should never play with who is playing to make gold !! Arenanet, you need to revise this, that way it does not work. Put awards in the unranked games to avoid this type of problem and, most importantly, improve this balancing as urgently as possible !!

    Rewards in unranked won't stop people determined to use odd builds in ranked from using odd builds in ranked.

    That's not the point. The point is that if such a measure is taken then these problems would not happen so often. You do not have to think about solving the problem 100%, but on reducing the existing problem.

    but it kinda is the point. there is no action you could take that would prevent someone with a meme build from queuing in ranked or even reduce the chance of it happening, short of premades.

    Also, the moment unranked becomes more appetizing for players gear-treadmilling or loot-treadmilling, the ranked players may also complain/collapse. Nobody's going to grind rank out for no reason/respect alone.

    [Indifferent Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [Every PvP game has bad balance because every PvP game has bad players.]

  • brunoam.7391brunoam.7391 Member ✭✭

    @Gamble.4580 said:
    This is how meta changes lol, a person will remake a build do well set a role and poeple will copy. I welcome this as long as the build has a role and is needed with the comp u have.

    But the point is that these builds are not meta!!! Renegade is now meta in pvp? Scrapper too? On what planet is this?

  • @brunoam.7391 said:

    @Gamble.4580 said:
    This is how meta changes lol, a person will remake a build do well set a role and poeple will copy. I welcome this as long as the build has a role and is needed with the comp u have.

    But the point is that these builds are not meta!!! Renegade is now meta in pvp? Scrapper too? On what planet is this?

    The meta isn't static. Maybe someone figured out how to play Renegade and Scrapper to fill a need.

    [Indifferent Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [Every PvP game has bad balance because every PvP game has bad players.]

  • brunoam.7391brunoam.7391 Member ✭✭

    Of course, now I will play with thief bunker because apparently it will also be viable LUL

  • Airdive.2613Airdive.2613 Member ✭✭✭

    @brunoam.7391 said:
    But the point is that these builds are not meta!!! Renegade is now meta in pvp? Scrapper too? On what planet is this?

    There is no deductive meta, it's rather what wins becomes the meta.
    You say it's higher ranked play, so at the very least these people are somewhat proficient and willing to try something new.
    What is meme build now shall become the blueprint of your own build next month.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You can only play 2 builds, the rest is trash confirmed

    Come on now. If they earned their rank then they will have their reasons to play whatever they want. If they decide to lose on purpose then that sucks, but you have absolutely 0 way of knowing that

    Be part of the most pessimistic and negative group of people to ever exist. Join the GW2 community now! wink wink
    Proud member of [FIRE] on RoF "... since day 1!"
    Infraction Farmer Extraordinaire & Leader of the Big Beautiful Choya

  • Gamble.4580Gamble.4580 Member ✭✭

    @brunoam.7391 said:

    @Gamble.4580 said:
    This is how meta changes lol, a person will remake a build do well set a role and poeple will copy. I welcome this as long as the build has a role and is needed with the comp u have.

    But the point is that these builds are not meta!!! Renegade is now meta in pvp? Scrapper too? On what planet is this?

    Who do you think makes the meta builds? Poeple laughed at core grd then once dieing all season all grds switched to it. Poeple laughed at condi thf start of last season then by end every thf switch to it. You are just a sheep mate. I will carry on makeing new meta builds as I have made two for thf last 3 seasons and grd and necro and u laugh some more but by end off season follow like a sheep. Poeple play what you like in pvp enjoy the game and keep thinking up new builds as meta changes none stop.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Malafaia.8903 said:

    @brunoam.7391 said:
    I'd like to know what leads a people to using meme builds in high-ranking ranked games. Among the many matches I played today I could find holosmith condition, renegade, ranger condition, scrapper, deadeye condition, etc. A person who is playing to win should never play with who is playing to make gold !! Arenanet, you need to revise this, that way it does not work. Put awards in the unranked games to avoid this type of problem and, most importantly, improve this balancing as urgently as possible !!

    Broken game = People playing what they want
    "Plz anet, fix"

    I read it as: "game has bled out so much that just about anyone on any build can be a top player"

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    CLICK HERE FOR A FREE SCREEN CLEANING SERVICE
    I miss team queue...

  • Elrond.9486Elrond.9486 Member ✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Malafaia.8903 said:

    @brunoam.7391 said:
    I'd like to know what leads a people to using meme builds in high-ranking ranked games. Among the many matches I played today I could find holosmith condition, renegade, ranger condition, scrapper, deadeye condition, etc. A person who is playing to win should never play with who is playing to make gold !! Arenanet, you need to revise this, that way it does not work. Put awards in the unranked games to avoid this type of problem and, most importantly, improve this balancing as urgently as possible !!

    Broken game = People playing what they want
    "Plz anet, fix"

    I read it as: "game has bled out so much that just about anyone on any build can be a top player"

    I don't get it. If a couple builds are top dog, they're OP and anet needs to balance. If more builds are viable, it's because talent has bled out and almost everything is garbage tier...

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Elrond.9486 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Malafaia.8903 said:

    @brunoam.7391 said:
    I'd like to know what leads a people to using meme builds in high-ranking ranked games. Among the many matches I played today I could find holosmith condition, renegade, ranger condition, scrapper, deadeye condition, etc. A person who is playing to win should never play with who is playing to make gold !! Arenanet, you need to revise this, that way it does not work. Put awards in the unranked games to avoid this type of problem and, most importantly, improve this balancing as urgently as possible !!

    Broken game = People playing what they want
    "Plz anet, fix"

    I read it as: "game has bled out so much that just about anyone on any build can be a top player"

    I don't get it. If a couple builds are top dog, they're OP and anet needs to balance. If more builds are viable, it's because talent has bled out and almost everything is garbage tier...

    "high-ranking ranked games" and "deadeye condition".... Yea.... Talent.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    CLICK HERE FOR A FREE SCREEN CLEANING SERVICE
    I miss team queue...

  • Solidaris.5423Solidaris.5423 Member ✭✭✭

    @brunoam.7391 said:

    But the point is that these builds are not meta!!! Renegade is now meta in pvp? Scrapper too? On what planet is this?

    Yes guys! Stop being creative and original and just bow down using Meta builds and be their slaves! You have no free will and no choice! Give up and be a Meta Slave you peasants!

    On serious note: Meta is boring....Everyone uses it and that is why everyone knows what to do against them. But changing things up and using something different can end your opponent surprised which gives the fight for your favor. It is a game not a job where you must obey the rules.

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The OP makes an important tacit assumption. Something is wrong with playing builds other than those they expect. That's simply untrue.

    I would be nearly helpless on the "meta" Mirage build because I haven't practiced it. Besides, suppose I don't want to play the "meta" build?

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • pah.4931pah.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sounds like you are potentially describing the real problem: a solo-queue random competitive mode that tries to rank individual players based on Wins/Losses.

    If they fixed that garbage, then you wouldn't have to worry about the rando builds of rando asshats.

  • choovanski.5462choovanski.5462 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2018

    @pah.4931 said:
    Sounds like you are potentially describing the real problem: a solo-queue random competitive mode that tries to rank individual players based on Wins/Losses.

    If they fixed that garbage, then you wouldn't have to worry about the rando builds of rando asshats.

    nah bro you gotta engage your brain on this matter. do some deep thinking. get smart. do these things:

    refuse to choose your teammates, and complain about them

    complain about people who choose teammates, because you're jealous because there not frustrated and are having fun

    get the ability to choose teammates removed, which results in a ton of players quitting and a drop in match and player quality

    then go back to complaining about your teammates and bad matchmaking due to low population

    cmon man, it's obviously the smart way to go about things. makes a ton of sense. super intellectual and logical

    Mastered in Classics, don't think I can land this
    Think we're gonna crash blissfully out of the sky

  • Solidaris.5423Solidaris.5423 Member ✭✭✭

    @choovanski.5462 said:

    @pah.4931 said:
    Sounds like you are potentially describing the real problem: a solo-queue random competitive mode that tries to rank individual players based on Wins/Losses.

    If they fixed that garbage, then you wouldn't have to worry about the rando builds of rando asshats.

    nah bro you gotta engage your brain on this matter. do some deep thinking. get smart. do these things:

    refuse to choose your teammates, and complain about them

    complain about people who choose teammates, because you're jealous because there not frustrated and are having fun

    get the ability to choose teammates removed, which results in a ton of players quitting and a drop in match and player quality

    then go back to complaining about your teammates and bad matchmaking due to low population

    cmon man, it's obviously the smart way to go about things. makes a ton of sense. super intellectual and logical

    Why do you guys always go back blaming solo queue for this? That is off-topic....

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2018

    @Solidaris.5423 said:

    @choovanski.5462 said:

    @pah.4931 said:
    Sounds like you are potentially describing the real problem: a solo-queue random competitive mode that tries to rank individual players based on Wins/Losses.

    If they fixed that garbage, then you wouldn't have to worry about the rando builds of rando asshats.

    nah bro you gotta engage your brain on this matter. do some deep thinking. get smart. do these things:

    refuse to choose your teammates, and complain about them

    complain about people who choose teammates, because you're jealous because there not frustrated and are having fun

    get the ability to choose teammates removed, which results in a ton of players quitting and a drop in match and player quality

    then go back to complaining about your teammates and bad matchmaking due to low population

    cmon man, it's obviously the smart way to go about things. makes a ton of sense. super intellectual and logical

    Why do you guys always go back blaming solo queue for this? That is off-topic....

    because these issues werent as rampart with team queue...
    standard butterfly effect

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    CLICK HERE FOR A FREE SCREEN CLEANING SERVICE
    I miss team queue...

  • choovanski.5462choovanski.5462 Member ✭✭✭

    @Solidaris.5423 said:

    @choovanski.5462 said:

    @pah.4931 said:
    Sounds like you are potentially describing the real problem: a solo-queue random competitive mode that tries to rank individual players based on Wins/Losses.

    If they fixed that garbage, then you wouldn't have to worry about the rando builds of rando asshats.

    nah bro you gotta engage your brain on this matter. do some deep thinking. get smart. do these things:

    refuse to choose your teammates, and complain about them

    complain about people who choose teammates, because you're jealous because there not frustrated and are having fun

    get the ability to choose teammates removed, which results in a ton of players quitting and a drop in match and player quality

    then go back to complaining about your teammates and bad matchmaking due to low population

    cmon man, it's obviously the smart way to go about things. makes a ton of sense. super intellectual and logical

    Why do you guys always go back blaming solo queue for this? That is off-topic....

    so you can't see how being able to pick your teammates fixes OPs issue?

    which is the frustration of playing with people who the OP deems as running inadequate builds and not playing to win

    you really can't see how being able to form a team with everyone running meta builds and playing to win fixes OPs frustrations and makes them happy?

    is this really that unclear to you?

    Mastered in Classics, don't think I can land this
    Think we're gonna crash blissfully out of the sky

  • Solidaris.5423Solidaris.5423 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2018

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Solidaris.5423 said:

    @choovanski.5462 said:

    @pah.4931 said:
    Sounds like you are potentially describing the real problem: a solo-queue random competitive mode that tries to rank individual players based on Wins/Losses.

    If they fixed that garbage, then you wouldn't have to worry about the rando builds of rando asshats.

    nah bro you gotta engage your brain on this matter. do some deep thinking. get smart. do these things:

    refuse to choose your teammates, and complain about them

    complain about people who choose teammates, because you're jealous because there not frustrated and are having fun

    get the ability to choose teammates removed, which results in a ton of players quitting and a drop in match and player quality

    then go back to complaining about your teammates and bad matchmaking due to low population

    cmon man, it's obviously the smart way to go about things. makes a ton of sense. super intellectual and logical

    Why do you guys always go back blaming solo queue for this? That is off-topic....

    because these issues werent as rampart with team queue...

    They were to be honest....When 5 man queue was a thing not once players got teamed up against pre-made teams which of course killed them off and complained about it....

    I get it. You guys want to play ranked with your friends but still...unranked is an option for that. You cannot say that unranked would not be fun because if pre-made teams were present in ranked the same would happen as with pre-made teams in unranked.

    Just look at the tournaments! How often can you see new faces winning them? The same players get to the top most of the time and not just because the low population but because they had the time and experience together to create a huge advantage.

    So this is why bringing back pre-made teams would not be good:
    1. You would loose matches because the enemy team has more advantage than you (voice chat / know the other players build etc.)
    2. You would be forced to look for a team and just drop your own game style to adapt to theirs
    3. If you would implement the system to only team up teams against other teams the queue times would be HORRIBLY LONG for everyone.

    Is it worth risking loosing more players to try this?

    Some players don't have friends playing the game and before you go THEN MAKE FRIENDS! no....that is not how it works. You cannot run around and scream YOU ARE MY FRIEND! NOW WE PVP TOGETHER! and expect that to work out.

    You say that those who don't want this are selfish but in reality you guys are selfish. You would form teams and create a huge disadvantage for those who do not have any and will never have any because of course you would never invite them into your team!

  • Solidaris.5423Solidaris.5423 Member ✭✭✭

    @choovanski.5462 said:

    @Solidaris.5423 said:

    @choovanski.5462 said:

    @pah.4931 said:
    Sounds like you are potentially describing the real problem: a solo-queue random competitive mode that tries to rank individual players based on Wins/Losses.

    If they fixed that garbage, then you wouldn't have to worry about the rando builds of rando asshats.

    nah bro you gotta engage your brain on this matter. do some deep thinking. get smart. do these things:

    refuse to choose your teammates, and complain about them

    complain about people who choose teammates, because you're jealous because there not frustrated and are having fun

    get the ability to choose teammates removed, which results in a ton of players quitting and a drop in match and player quality

    then go back to complaining about your teammates and bad matchmaking due to low population

    cmon man, it's obviously the smart way to go about things. makes a ton of sense. super intellectual and logical

    Why do you guys always go back blaming solo queue for this? That is off-topic....

    so you can't see how being able to pick your teammates fixes OPs issue?

    which is the frustration of playing with people who the OP deems as running inadequate builds and not playing to win

    you really can't see how being able to form a team with everyone running meta builds and playing to win fixes OPs frustrations and makes them happy?

    is this really that unclear to you?

    Yes please! Let us make PvP the same as raiding where teams will only accept you if you play a meta build which is not your play style or else you are closed out of them and can queue alone just to meet a pre-made team as your opponent and have a high chance of loosing over and over again.

  • choovanski.5462choovanski.5462 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2018

    @Solidaris.5423 said:

    You say that those who don't want this are selfish but in reality you guys are selfish. You would form teams and create a huge disadvantage for those who do not have any and will never have any because of course you would never invite them into your team!

    wow sorry you're so insecure and jealous, I legitimately am, that's a bummer dude :'(

    didn't realize this was all about not getting invited to peoples teams. I feel like mayhap you're the selfish one, as you think 'if no one will invite me to form a team then no one else should be able to be in a team'. it's a very 'if I can't have friends then no one can' attitude

    still, you're wrong about me not inviting people to teams. my usual way of playing PvP back in the day was as a TRIO. we'd often invite cool players we saw in HotM and in our games to fill up the two empty slots. we all play off meta, heck I used to main trap guard and gunflame lol

    we were three social guys out to make pals and play together. sad that you think we're all snobs and bullies dude. we're keen to hang w anyone with a positive attitude and skills

    like dude, I used to coach people in PvP and teach new players how to get better. we'd player with weaker players all the time, to help them out and improve them. most of the old PvP guilds were like this too, very helpful and friendly

    Mastered in Classics, don't think I can land this
    Think we're gonna crash blissfully out of the sky

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @brunoam.7391 said:

    @Gamble.4580 said:
    This is how meta changes lol, a person will remake a build do well set a role and poeple will copy. I welcome this as long as the build has a role and is needed with the comp u have.

    But the point is that these builds are not meta!!! Renegade is now meta in pvp? Scrapper too? On what planet is this?

    It seems to me that you have an elitist attitude. "If its not meta, it shouldn't be here". This is the kind of toxicity that makes new people afraid to start PvPing and makes those who PvP to leave.

    Ive played my core condi engi in ranked, ive played my trapper ranger in ranked and both have done really well.

    If it works, then who are you to dictate what people can/should play?

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/mc_celestia
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • Solidaris.5423Solidaris.5423 Member ✭✭✭

    @choovanski.5462 said:

    @Solidaris.5423 said:

    You say that those who don't want this are selfish but in reality you guys are selfish. You would form teams and create a huge disadvantage for those who do not have any and will never have any because of course you would never invite them into your team!

    wow sorry you're so insecure and jealous, I legitimately am, that's a bummer dude :'(

    didn't realize this was all about not getting invited to peoples teams. I feel like mayhap you're the selfish one, as you think 'if no one will invite me to form a team then no one else should be able to be in a team'. it's a very 'if I can't have friends then no one can attitude

    still, you're wrong about me not inviting people to teams. my usual way of playing PvP back in the day was as a TRIO. we'd often invite cool players we saw in HotM and in out games to fill up the two empty slots. we all play off meta, heck I used to main trap guard and gunflame lol

    we were three social guys out to make pals and play together. sad that you think we're all snobs and bullies dude. we're keen to hang w anyone with a positive attitude and skills

    Okay you are social and accepting. Can you tell that about the other players out there? Just because you are like that doesn't mean everyone will be like that. As I said I am not against teaming up. I do party up with my guildies and go for some PvP in unranked so stop looking down on me because yes that will make you look like a snob.

    I already pointed out if pre-made teams would be formed than the majority of the players would form their own little groups closing out those who cannot form a team because either friends are offline / they just started / they have a hard time changing play style to fit the group etc.

    Instead of looking at only your side of this discussion check why the other side does not agree with you.

    Players who are against this are afraid that if this happens than teams will form up where they are not welcome so either they PUG it with a group or go in alone just to face a pre-made team against them creating a disadvantage favoring the pre-made team.

    So tell me. Can you guarantee for those players that they will not have bad experience with that? Can you guarantee the players that teams won't force them to play as they want? Can you guarantee these players that they won't be burned out even more from it and want to quit the game mode?

  • pah.4931pah.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solidaris.5423 said:

    @choovanski.5462 said:

    @pah.4931 said:
    Sounds like you are potentially describing the real problem: a solo-queue random competitive mode that tries to rank individual players based on Wins/Losses.

    If they fixed that garbage, then you wouldn't have to worry about the rando builds of rando asshats.

    nah bro you gotta engage your brain on this matter. do some deep thinking. get smart. do these things:

    refuse to choose your teammates, and complain about them

    complain about people who choose teammates, because you're jealous because there not frustrated and are having fun

    get the ability to choose teammates removed, which results in a ton of players quitting and a drop in match and player quality

    then go back to complaining about your teammates and bad matchmaking due to low population

    cmon man, it's obviously the smart way to go about things. makes a ton of sense. super intellectual and logical

    Why do you guys always go back blaming solo queue for this? That is off-topic....

    I don't think it is off topic. I think the problem described in this thread is an inherent symptom of a larger problem. To wit: ranking individuals in a team-based competitive mode where you cannot pick your teammates. It kind of works in shooters, which are less complex (even class-based shooters like Overwatch) and then you're just dealing with skill-level and attitude issues. GW2 professions / builds system is SO complex, it makes things that much harder to ensure decent teammates. Sorry, but if you want a good, truly competitive experience, team-only is the only way to do it.

    I mean. What other solution is there to the OP's problem? The only other apparent one to me would be to force builds in competitive modes. (if you see another option that solves it, I'm open to discussing it.) So, I choose necro and I queue and my build and weapons and utilities are chosen for me. This would ensure cheeze builds or off-meta players are never on your team... and it would also make balance way easier. You could make an argument for it.

    Putting rewards in unranked won't work like you hope (though I would be all for it since I want to play with my friends and get reward for it... and don't give a kitten about arbitrary, bogus rank)... because the reason pips are only in Ranked is because hardly anyone would play it except a few tryhards who think rank matters. Without any extra incentive to play ranked, you'd see a mass exodus from that queue in a heartbeat. You think Anet put pips in ranked because those playing in that queue "deserve" more than those in unranked? Nope. It's the only thing keeping the entire mode from dwindling to nothing.

  • choovanski.5462choovanski.5462 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2018

    @Solidaris.5423 said:

    @choovanski.5462 said:

    @Solidaris.5423 said:

    You say that those who don't want this are selfish but in reality you guys are selfish. You would form teams and create a huge disadvantage for those who do not have any and will never have any because of course you would never invite them into your team!

    wow sorry you're so insecure and jealous, I legitimately am, that's a bummer dude :'(

    didn't realize this was all about not getting invited to peoples teams. I feel like mayhap you're the selfish one, as you think 'if no one will invite me to form a team then no one else should be able to be in a team'. it's a very 'if I can't have friends then no one can attitude

    still, you're wrong about me not inviting people to teams. my usual way of playing PvP back in the day was as a TRIO. we'd often invite cool players we saw in HotM and in out games to fill up the two empty slots. we all play off meta, heck I used to main trap guard and gunflame lol

    we were three social guys out to make pals and play together. sad that you think we're all snobs and bullies dude. we're keen to hang w anyone with a positive attitude and skills

    Okay you are social and accepting. Can you tell that about the other players out there? Just because you are like that doesn't mean everyone will be like that. As I said I am not against teaming up. I do party up with my guildies and go for some PvP in unranked so stop looking down on me because yes that will make you look like a snob.

    I already pointed out if pre-made teams would be formed than the majority of the players would form their own little groups closing out those who cannot form a team because either friends are offline / they just started / they have a hard time changing play style to fit the group etc.

    Instead of looking at only your side of this discussion check why the other side does not agree with you.

    Players who are against this are afraid that if this happens than teams will form up where they are not welcome so either they PUG it with a group or go in alone just to face a pre-made team against them creating a disadvantage favoring the pre-made team.

    So tell me. Can you guarantee for those players that they will not have bad experience with that? Can you guarantee the players that teams won't force them to play as they want? Can you guarantee these players that they won't be burned out even more from it and want to quit the game mode?

    hey dude, I don't look down on you. I'd invite you to party if I could lol

    I lost 50 players in my guild when team queue was removed. don't pretend the negative effects only fall on the people who prefer solo

    tons of big PvP guilds died and disbanded, in a thread a while back we had over 350 people quitting in that thread alone. the removal of team queue is one of the reasons the population has dropped so much, which has caused big matchmaking issues

    team play in a team game is incredibly important for bringing in new players, and for retaining them. I've gone into all the reasons why in other threads, but it's just basic human social dynamics

    as far as friendliness goes, sure I may be friendly but not everyone is. yeah that true. but at least with the ability to party up being nice in encouraged, so you can make pals and get in groups- as toxic players don't get invites. whereas in solo queue you have no reason to be nice, as there is no rewards for making friends, nor is there any punishment for being a toxic person everyone hates

    it also removes a lot of motivation to help and teach other papers. like why would I coach people if I can't play with them? what's the point of that?

    solo queue is awful for growth, player retention, and community

    furthermore, anet came out and said that statistically premades actually lost more than they won when facing non premades. so the winrate argument is fictional

    sure, nothing is ever perfect, and no community will ever be happy with either- but it think a growing community with people who help each other is a heck of a lot better than a shrinking one that's full of salt

    Mastered in Classics, don't think I can land this
    Think we're gonna crash blissfully out of the sky

  • Solidaris.5423Solidaris.5423 Member ✭✭✭

    @pah.4931 said:

    I don't think it is off topic. I think the problem described in this thread is an inherent symptom of a larger problem. To wit: ranking individuals in a team-based competitive mode where you cannot pick your teammates. It kind of works in shooters, which are less complex (even class-based shooters like Overwatch) and then you're just dealing with skill-level and attitude issues. GW2 professions / builds system is SO complex, it makes things that much harder to ensure decent teammates. Sorry, but if you want a good, truly competitive experience, team-only is the only way to do it.

    I mean. What other solution is there to the OP's problem? The only other apparent one to me would be to force builds in competitive modes. (if you see another option that solves it, I'm open to discussing it.) So, I choose necro and I queue and my build and weapons and utilities are chosen for me. This would ensure cheeze builds or off-meta players are never on your team... and it would also make balance way easier. You could make an argument for it.

    Putting rewards in unranked won't work like you hope (though I would be all for it since I want to play with my friends and get reward for it... and don't give a kitten about arbitrary, bogus rank)... because the reason pips are only in Ranked is because hardly anyone would play it except a few tryhards who think rank matters. Without any extra incentive to play ranked, you'd see a mass exodus from that queue in a heartbeat. You think Anet put pips in ranked because those playing in that queue "deserve" more than those in unranked? Nope. It's the only thing keeping the entire mode from dwindling to nothing.

    I don't think locking builds would be a good idea because it would kill a unique character of the game about playing the game as you want to play it with whatever you want to.

    But as I have stated above: If we allow pre-made teams than what is the guarantee we will not lock out players from the mode? What can guarantee that players who cannot form a team at that moment will not be facing pre-made teams over and over again? What will stop the community from demanding things from you so you can join their team? What will stop the playerbase to making the scene the same as fractals or raids where you have a high chance of failing because they are either demanding something the player is having a hard time or cannot communicate properly?

    Before attack me down. I am against it because I cannot see the META / X RANK OR HIGHER OR GTFO type of LFG groups forming up to go against an organized pre-made teams.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2018

    @Solidaris.5423 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Solidaris.5423 said:

    @choovanski.5462 said:

    @pah.4931 said:
    Sounds like you are potentially describing the real problem: a solo-queue random competitive mode that tries to rank individual players based on Wins/Losses.

    If they fixed that garbage, then you wouldn't have to worry about the rando builds of rando asshats.

    nah bro you gotta engage your brain on this matter. do some deep thinking. get smart. do these things:

    refuse to choose your teammates, and complain about them

    complain about people who choose teammates, because you're jealous because there not frustrated and are having fun

    get the ability to choose teammates removed, which results in a ton of players quitting and a drop in match and player quality

    then go back to complaining about your teammates and bad matchmaking due to low population

    cmon man, it's obviously the smart way to go about things. makes a ton of sense. super intellectual and logical

    Why do you guys always go back blaming solo queue for this? That is off-topic....

    because these issues werent as rampart with team queue...

    They were to be honest....When 5 man queue was a thing not once players got teamed up against pre-made teams which of course killed them off and complained about it....

    Premades got matched against randoms and even Anet said they lost more than they won, so not sure what you're trying to say here.

    I get it. You guys want to play ranked with your friends but still...unranked is an option for that. You cannot say that unranked would not be fun because if pre-made teams were present in ranked the same would happen as with pre-made teams in unranked.

    Unranked is full of people trying new builds and doing dailies, there's literally no competition in that scene and not only that but you miss out on PIPS, so your time isn't anywhere near as rewarded.

    Just look at the tournaments! How often can you see new faces winning them? The same players get to the top most of the time and not just because the low population but because they had the time and experience together to create a huge advantage.

    This is true, they came from an era when team queue was a thing, so unlike many they had an opportunity to develop with each other. Not only that but AT's are also restricted to certain time zones, I personally can't make any of them due to work hours and sleep patterns but hey, I'm sure many Australians are in the same boat.

    So this is why bringing back pre-made teams would not be good:
    1. You would loose matches because the enemy team has more advantage than you (voice chat / know the other players build etc.)

    Refer back to Anet saying premades lost more than they won

    1. You would be forced to look for a team and just drop your own game style to adapt to theirs

    This is MMO, what else would you expect?

    1. If you would implement the system to only team up teams against other teams the queue times would be HORRIBLY LONG for everyone.

    They would be to start off with until the population grew back up again as 1 player bringing in a team is 4 more players than the solo player but remembering that que times weren't all that long in the past, I can personally deal with that 3-5 mins.

    Is it worth risking loosing more players to try this?

    We may lose 10 players but another 40 players could bring in their guilds and create teams again like we used to have, so losing 10 for 200 is a good trade if you ask me.

    Some players don't have friends playing the game and before you go THEN MAKE FRIENDS! no....that is not how it works. You cannot run around and scream YOU ARE MY FRIEND! NOW WE PVP TOGETHER! and expect that to work out.

    That's a weird way to make friends, but it works as I told a guy for 3 months he had a nice butt until he joined my guild, been friends for 5+ years now and to this day I continue to say he has a good looking butt.

    You say that those who don't want this are selfish but in reality you guys are selfish. You would form teams and create a huge disadvantage for those who do not have any and will never have any because of course you would never invite them into your team!

    Reflect back on everything I just said and ask yourself who's really being selfish...
    And really think about it too, consider how many players were happy with team queue when it was a thing, think about team queue and the meaning of MMO, then think about the small handful of players that decided to buy MMO to play alone and force a company to change it to their liking instead.... Think about all that, then ask yourself who's really being selfish.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    CLICK HERE FOR A FREE SCREEN CLEANING SERVICE
    I miss team queue...

  • Solidaris.5423Solidaris.5423 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2018

    @choovanski.5462 said:

    hey dude, I don't look down on you. I'd invite you to party if I could lol

    I lost 50 players in my guild when team queue was removed. don't pretend the negative effects only fall on the people who prefer solo

    tons of big PvP guilds died and disbanded, in a thread a while back we had over 350 people quitting in that thread alone. the removal of team queue is one of the reasons the population has dropped so much, which has caused big matchmaking issues

    team play in a team game is incredibly important for bringing in new players, and for retaining them. I've gone into all the reasons why in other threads, but it's just basic human social dynamics

    as far as friendliness goes, sure I may be friendly but not everyone is. yeah that true. but at least with the ability to party up being nice in encouraged, so you can make pals and get in groups- as toxic players don't get invites. whereas in solo queue you have no reason to be nice, as there is no rewards for making friends, nor is there any punishment for being a toxic person everyone hates

    it also removes a lot of motivation to help and teach other papers. like why would I coach people if I can't play with them? what's the point of that?

    solo queue is awful for growth, player retention, and community

    furthermore, anet came out and said that statistically premades actually lost more than they won when facing non premades. so the winrate argument is fictional

    sure, nothing is ever perfect, and no community will ever be happy with either- but it think a growing community with people who help each other is a heck of a lot better than a shrinking one that's full of salt

    I hate toxicity and hatred in the current community as much as you guys and I am trying my best to encourage my guildies to try out PvP with me but when I see how some crybaby is spewing its immature a-holeness on people "because I know it better" I question if the community is mature enough for this kind of change.

    There are only a handful of encouraging and helpful PvP people online at a time who would step up against this. Just look at OP for example. They would force people to use a build "because it is meta and it is useful than yours".

    We need to reduce the hatred nad toxicity in the game before ranked can see 5-man queues again. And not just toxicity between team members but toxicity against the enemy team as well. Which is a really big objective to work on but a worthy one.

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    You weren't around when team queues were a thing were you?

    I started playing the game 2-3 months before HoT launched. I started PvP-ing after learning my characters in PvE a bit so like another 2-3 months after HoT launch. When I tried myself for the first time in Ranked and pre-made teams were a thing my matches were mostly one-sided so I tried looking for groups just to find out that the LFG teams did not let people in if they haven't met certain criterias and my friends slowly left because they had enough that they were thrown against teams we did not have a chance against due to lack of experience.

    When they announced that only two man queues were allowed it was better for me to play but when I was playing unranked with my friends I could see why players were discouraged of the game mode. Getting experienced is hard when your team is thrown against veteran players in Ranked but getting matched up against totally clueless ones in Unranked doesn't give you anything to learn either.

  • choovanski.5462choovanski.5462 Member ✭✭✭

    @Solidaris.5423 said:
    I hate toxicity and hatred in the current community as much as you guys and I am trying my best to encourage my guildies to try out PvP with me but when I see how some crybaby is spewing its immature a-holeness on people "because I know it better" I question if the community is mature enough for this kind of change.

    There are only a handful of encouraging and helpful PvP people online at a time who would step up against this. Just look at OP for example. They would force people to use a build "because it is meta and it is useful than yours".

    We need to reduce the hatred nad toxicity in the game before ranked can see 5-man queues again. And not just toxicity between team members but toxicity against the enemy team as well. Which is a really big objective to work on but a worthy one.

    well what's your suggestion for making the community less toxic my dude?

    because I think teams is a really good way to do it

    I hate those meta elitists as much as you dude, like back at HoT launch when my main class, warrior was unplayable- people would afk on my team and give up just because I was playing warrior. it sucked

    however, back then I could insulate myself from all those toxic players. I could play with my friends who accepted my wild warrior builds. I could avoid the bullying and afks

    not now tho. when I queue up on gunflame, theres a good chance I'll get flamed by a teammate and he will afk and throw the game. it happens a ton

    I can't do anything about that without team queue. I can't do anything at all. it's a miserable experience, it makes me alt f4 and play other games or play some guitar

    so please dude, tell me how to fix this toxicity without teams. it's the only solution I can see, and it's proven to work

    I don't want to be verbally harassed and told to kill myself for playing gunflame, and have people throw my games at spawn. the only way I can see to fix that is to choose my teammates

    what's your solution?

    Mastered in Classics, don't think I can land this
    Think we're gonna crash blissfully out of the sky

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2018

    @Solidaris.5423 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    You weren't around when team queues were a thing were you?

    I started playing the game 2-3 months before HoT launched. I started PvP-ing after learning my characters in PvE a bit so like another 2-3 months after HoT launch. When I tried myself for the first time in Ranked and pre-made teams were a thing my matches were mostly one-sided so I tried looking for groups just to find out that the LFG teams did not let people in if they haven't met certain criterias and my friends slowly left because they had enough that they were thrown against teams we did not have a chance against due to lack of experience.

    When they announced that only two man queues were allowed it was better for me to play but when I was playing unranked with my friends I could see why players were discouraged of the game mode. Getting experienced is hard when your team is thrown against veteran players in Ranked but getting matched up against totally clueless ones in Unranked doesn't give you anything to learn either.

    I remember it was tough starting out too but eventually I slipped into one of the communities within PvP, for all I know I was apart of this giant no rep contact list of PvP players, all of which were very supportive during my learning experience but unfortunately most have left the game now.

    It's a shame you never had the experience nor will get the chance now, you really would have loved it. Even just the thrill of facing off against other guilds and your own within a match was the very concept of what I thought "Guild Wars" was meant to be, win or lose, it was always fun.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    CLICK HERE FOR A FREE SCREEN CLEANING SERVICE
    I miss team queue...

  • Solidaris.5423Solidaris.5423 Member ✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    They were to be honest....When 5 man queue was a thing not once players got teamed up against pre-made teams which of course killed them off and complained about it....

    Premades got matched against randoms and even Anet said they lost more than they won, so not sure what you're trying to say here.

    To be honest I haven't heard about those statistics and from my experience I saw that reversed

    I get it. You guys want to play ranked with your friends but still...unranked is an option for that. You cannot say that unranked would not be fun because if pre-made teams were present in ranked the same would happen as with pre-made teams in unranked.

    Unranked is full of people trying new builds and doing dailies, there's literally no competition in that scene and not only that but you miss out on PIPS, so your time isn't anywhere near as rewarded.

    So if someone would form a team from scratch and go for Ranked to loose over and over again against a more experienced team how would they learn? It is difficult to learn anything if your team dies in mere seconds due to less experience than the enemy

    Just look at the tournaments! How often can you see new faces winning them? The same players get to the top most of the time and not just because the low population but because they had the time and experience together to create a huge advantage.

    This is true, they came from an era when team queue was a thing, so unlike many they had an opportunity to develop with each other. Not only that but AT's are also restricted to certain time zones, I personally can't make any of them due to work hours and sleep patterns but hey, I'm sure many Australians are in the same boat.

    So this confirms my point above.

    So this is why bringing back pre-made teams would not be good:
    1. You would loose matches because the enemy team has more advantage than you (voice chat / know the other players build etc.)

    Refer back to Anet saying premades lost more than they won

    Again I said that because my experience and the experience of my friends was different from that statistic. But if that statistic is real and pre-made teams lost more than random teams why was it outvoted by the community back then?

    1. You would be forced to look for a team and just drop your own game style to adapt to theirs

    This is MMO, what else would you expect?

    Okay point taken about that. But if my build works fine than they should not force me to play a different one because that is the meta.

    1. If you would implement the system to only team up teams against other teams the queue times would be HORRIBLY LONG for everyone.

    They would be to start off with until the population grew back up again as 1 player bringing in a team is 4 more players than the solo player but remembering that que times weren't all that long in the past, I can personally deal with that 3-5 mins.

    But can you guarantee that? This is the biggest problem here. You cannot guarantee that PvP players will not end up as raid players ended up closing out players and giving new ones a hard time to reach their level.

    Is it worth risking loosing more players to try this?

    We may lose 10 players but another 40 players could bring in their guilds and create teams again like we used to have, so losing 10 for 200 is a good trade if you ask me.

    Again see point above. The raiding community is bigger than the PvP community but still struggling to find new players. Wouldn't this game mode struggle more?

    Some players don't have friends playing the game and before you go THEN MAKE FRIENDS! no....that is not how it works. You cannot run around and scream YOU ARE MY FRIEND! NOW WE PVP TOGETHER! and expect that to work out.

    That's a weird way to make friends, but it works as I told a guy for 3 months he had a nice butt until he joined my guild, been friends for 5+ years now and to this day I continue to say he has a good looking butt.

    okay... good for them for having a nice butt I guess. I'm more for boobs but whatever.

    You say that those who don't want this are selfish but in reality you guys are selfish. You would form teams and create a huge disadvantage for those who do not have any and will never have any because of course you would never invite them into your team!

    Reflect back on everything I just said and ask yourself who's really being selfish...
    And really think about it too, consider how many players were happy with team queue when it was a thing, think about team queue and the meaning of MMO, then think about the small handful of players that decided to buy MMO to play alone and force a company to change it to their liking instead.... Think about all that, then ask yourself who's really being selfish.

    Both side is selfish. I am trying to see the point of both sides and seeing the state of PvP right now I feel like getting in new players without experience to Ranked if 5 man was a thing would make most of them leave because getting experience right now is too difficult if as you guys have pointed out Unranked is just a place where people try out builds and is really random while Ranked would be filled with either too experienced teams against them where they cannot learn anything because the match would be too one-sided or inexperienced teams which would not give them any experience at all.

  • Solidaris.5423Solidaris.5423 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2018

    @choovanski.5462 said:

    @Solidaris.5423 said:
    I hate toxicity and hatred in the current community as much as you guys and I am trying my best to encourage my guildies to try out PvP with me but when I see how some crybaby is spewing its immature a-holeness on people "because I know it better" I question if the community is mature enough for this kind of change.

    There are only a handful of encouraging and helpful PvP people online at a time who would step up against this. Just look at OP for example. They would force people to use a build "because it is meta and it is useful than yours".

    We need to reduce the hatred nad toxicity in the game before ranked can see 5-man queues again. And not just toxicity between team members but toxicity against the enemy team as well. Which is a really big objective to work on but a worthy one.

    well what's your suggestion for making the community less toxic my dude?

    because I think teams is a really good way to do it

    I hate those meta elitists as much as you dude, like back at HoT launch when my main class, warrior was unplayable- people would afk on my team and give up just because I was playing warrior. it sucked

    however, back then I could insulate myself from all those toxic players. I could play with my friends who accepted my wild warrior builds. I could avoid the bullying and afks

    not now tho. when I queue up on gunflame, theres a good chance I'll get flamed by a teammate and he will afk and throw the game. it happens a ton

    I can't do anything about that without team queue. I can't do anything at all. it's a miserable experience, it makes me alt f4 and play other games or play some guitar

    so please dude, tell me how to fix this toxicity without teams. it's the only solution I can see, and it's proven to work

    I don't want to be verbally harassed and told to kill myself for playing gunflame, and have people throw my games at spawn. the only way I can see to fix that is to choose my teammates

    what's your solution?

    The solution is not easy. We need a system which rewards team play instead of individual achievements like top stats. I have seen so many times that a player with no top stat at the end of the match was the biggest team player and sometimes rescuer of the game. I would say a system like Overwatch where you can vote for one member in your team and another member in the enemy team who in your opinion has done a great job in something and reward those with the most votes without telling the teams who was given how much vote? Something that rewards team play and also rewards players who teaches inexperienced one. To be honest hard to say.

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    I remember it was tough starting out too but eventually I slipped into one of the communities within PvP, for all I know I was apart of this giant no rep contact list of PvP players, all of which were very supportive during my learning experience but unfortunately most have left the game now.

    It's a shame you never had the experience nor will get the chance now, you really would have loved it. Even just the thrill of facing off against other guilds and your own within a match was the very concept of what I thought "Guild Wars" was meant to be, win or lose, it was always fun.

    Only seen those times on vids and heard about people talking about it. Must have been fun. Hopefully the community will drop their selfishness and get back to that time.

  • Gamble.4580Gamble.4580 Member ✭✭

    @brunoam.7391 said:

    @Gamble.4580 said:
    This is how meta changes lol, a person will remake a build do well set a role and poeple will copy. I welcome this as long as the build has a role and is needed with the comp u have.

    But the point is that these builds are not meta!!! Renegade is now meta in pvp? Scrapper too? On what planet is this?

    No its not meta, but I have seen holo switch to scrapper and it was game changing. You use what u feel is needed.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2018

    @Solidaris.5423 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    Unranked is full of people trying new builds and doing dailies, there's literally no competition in that scene and not only that but you miss out on PIPS, so your time isn't anywhere near as rewarded.

    So if someone would form a team from scratch and go for Ranked to loose over and over again against a more experienced team how would they learn? It is difficult to learn anything if your team dies in mere seconds due to less experience than the enemy

    This is how I learnt, by losing and adapting and getting better. Working out why I died and learning from it. What class did it, how he did it, what build was he using, what skills were used and compare it to mine and see what I could do to improve against it.

    Refer back to Anet saying premades lost more than they won

    Again I said that because my experience and the experience of my friends was different from that statistic. But if that statistic is real and pre-made teams lost more than random teams why was it outvoted by the community back then?

    Because it was a trial and never stated that one would replace the other. I'm under the belief that trial stands for testing something, I think the English Dictionary reflects the same.
    I voted yes thinking it was great to have both queues, would attract more players and would also give me something to que up on when friends weren't online

    1. If you would implement the system to only team up teams against other teams the queue times would be HORRIBLY LONG for everyone.

    They would be to start off with until the population grew back up again as 1 player bringing in a team is 4 more players than the solo player but remembering that que times weren't all that long in the past, I can personally deal with that 3-5 mins.

    But can you guarantee that? This is the biggest problem here. You cannot guarantee that PvP players will not end up as raid players ended up closing out players and giving new ones a hard time to reach their level.

    I'm running purely on math with this one. I'm not sure about closing people out as I didn't have that experience when I was learning.
    but
    Solo player queues up, that's 1 player in game. He may decide he wants to play with friends and manages to get himself a duo partner provided he is below the cut off point.. So we now have a maximum of 2 players in the mists.

    Under team ques:
    1 player wants to PvP with friends, he posts in guild chat "who wants to que" and gets about 14 responses but for the sake of simple math, let's say 4. That's 5 people... 2 of those could be trying it out for the first time because its content with friends and they could like it and stay and further continue this chain of posting "who wants to team queue"..

    Some players don't have friends playing the game and before you go THEN MAKE FRIENDS! no....that is not how it works. You cannot run around and scream YOU ARE MY FRIEND! NOW WE PVP TOGETHER! and expect that to work out.

    That's a weird way to make friends, but it works as I told a guy for 3 months he had a nice butt until he joined my guild, been friends for 5+ years now and to this day I continue to say he has a good looking butt.

    okay... good for them for having a nice butt I guess. I'm more for boobs but whatever.

    Both side is selfish. I am trying to see the point of both sides and seeing the state of PvP right now I feel like getting in new players without experience to Ranked if 5 man was a thing would make most of them leave because getting experience right now is too difficult if as you guys have pointed out Unranked is just a place where people try out builds and is really random while Ranked would be filled with either too experienced teams against them where they cannot learn anything because the match would be too one-sided or inexperienced teams which would not give them any experience at all.

    It can be rough but losing is also learning.
    When teams play together long enough, maybe they'll decide to queue for AT's against the pros too.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    CLICK HERE FOR A FREE SCREEN CLEANING SERVICE
    I miss team queue...

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭

    I keep hearing in this thread that Anet found premades statistically more likely to lose than win. Can anyone give me a link to a source?

    At least in ranked, my only experience with premades was getting consistently curbstomped by them early season. I've always been a solo queuer, and I've found being able to relog to 2-3 classes if needed is what it takes to retain some semblance of control over soloq randomness.

<1
©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.