The elite should't stronger than core

It is obvious that the elite of the elite is OP.Directly nerf elite only temporarily keep of balance. Excessive nerf elite will make them boring and loss of meaning.Nerf core talent will impact the profession I think the best way is to not nerf the elite but to lower attributes.For example:Mirage is flexible, but it gives them too much damage. So choosing mirage will reduce condition damage and crit damageholo has a high burst of damage,But it should't sustained to cause high damage,So choosing holo will reduce power and health

I think elite should be weaker like racials just offer afun idea to play for this one trait line shouldnt be stronger than 2 core

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:I think elite should be weaker like racials just offer afun idea to play for this one trait line shouldnt be stronger than 2 core

The elite should be distinctive, but should not exceed core from all aspects. The elite should be a choice.

Everyone uses similar builds because there are no other options. For most professions, nerf a particular elites is nerf the profession, They have only this elites to use ,unless nerf everyone

It's an interesting idea, but I don't think it's the right move, because statistical drawbacks are kinda boring, and in some instances having to sacrifice a third core trait line is already enough of a drawback, the solution lies in better balancing between the especs and the core profession, they need to avoid making the same mistake than they did in the past, meaning giving especs consequently more damage while having better sustain, and looking back to the core profession, for instance due to how Reaper and Scourge have completely unique interaction with the Shroud mechanic, I think it's a good opportunity to make the Death Shroud stand out, which isn't the case currently because it hasn't been touched in years.

If the core traits and abilities would be better, and eventually some traits underperforming with certain especs, like what they've done with Dhuumfire, then the core profession would be more attractive, and if the especs weren't egregiously overperforming, then we would have less player taking them.

@Alchimist.4738 said:It's an interesting idea, but I don't think it's the right move, because statistical drawbacks are kinda boring, and in some instances having to sacrifice a third core trait line is already enough of a drawback, the solution lies in better balancing between the especs and the core profession, they need to avoid making the same mistake than they did in the past, meaning giving especs consequently more damage while having better sustain, and looking back to the core profession, for instance due to how Reaper and Scourge have completely unique interaction with the Shroud mechanic, I think it's a good opportunity to make the Death Shroud stand out, which isn't the case currently because it hasn't been touched in years.

If the core traits and abilities would be better, and eventually some traits underperforming with certain especs, like what they've done with Dhuumfire, then the core profession would be more attractive, and if the especs weren't egregiously overperforming, then we would have less player taking them.

At present, most of the elite is more powerful than core talent. It is almost impossible to balance the elite and the core talent. This restricts the design idea of elite talent. It's meaningless if they're not unique enough . reaper has been nerf many times, and now I feel that reaper is like a weakened warrior rather than a cold and scared death.reaper is a victim

Everything makes alot more sense if you look at especs as a new profession mechanic.

You can still choose to use the old one, but they aren't buildt to synergize too much with other traitlines. Every major trait from every espec was designed from the getgo to go well with the old lines, and therefore the old ones are now used to supplement them instead of being traitlines in their own right.

This plus the easy access to 100% boon duration and maximum condi damage is why we see the troublesome builds we see today.

Think of it like "any old build with 3 traitlines = 1 espec", with a few exceptions where certain professions are still forced to run a mandatory traitline. Because of the powercreep we are now allowed to experiment, for some with 2 other traitlines, for others just 1.

Make no mistake, we are heading in a new direction with the especs so better get used it sooner than later :)

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:I think elite should be weaker like racials just offer afun idea to play for this one trait line shouldnt be stronger than 2 core

You're both wrong. Obviously the elites should be more powerful. Not only does the name (elite specialization) suggest it, they're also features designed to sell expansions. It's pretty obvious you can better sell something more powerful, not something less so.

@"rng.1024" said:Everything makes alot more sense if you look at especs as a new profession mechanic.

You can still choose to use the old one, but they aren't buildt to synergize too much with other traitlines. Every major trait from every espec was designed from the getgo to go well with the old lines, and therefore the old ones are now used to supplement them instead of being traitlines in their own right.

This plus the easy access to 100% boon duration and maximum condi damage is why we see the troublesome builds we see today.

Think of it like "any old build with 3 traitlines = 1 espec", with a few exceptions where certain professions are still forced to run a mandatory traitline. Because of the powercreep we are now allowed to experiment, for some with 2 other traitlines, for others just 1.

Make no mistake, we are heading in a new direction with the especs so better get used it sooner than later :)

My proposal is better to maintain the talent of the elite. Elite talent is completely nerf in PvP and WvW because it is too strong. No one likes interesting parts to be modified. Reducing attributes can nerf them but retain their integrity. Everyone does't have to be forced to choose the same talent

Core specs are part of free mode, therefore should be weaker so people actually buy expansions.

@ZeteCommander.4937 said:

@"rng.1024" said:Everything makes alot more sense if you look at especs as a new profession mechanic.

You can still choose to use the old one, but they aren't buildt to synergize too much with other traitlines. Every major trait from every espec was designed from the getgo to go well with the old lines, and therefore the old ones are now used to supplement them instead of being traitlines in their own right.

This plus the easy access to 100% boon duration and maximum condi damage is why we see the troublesome builds we see today.

Think of it like "any old build with 3 traitlines = 1 espec", with a few exceptions where certain professions are still forced to run a mandatory traitline. Because of the powercreep we are now allowed to experiment, for some with 2 other traitlines, for others just 1.

Make no mistake, we are heading in a new direction with the especs so better get used it sooner than later :)

While I get where you're going, I don't think deterring people from playing a spec by putting them at a disadvantage is the way to go.

Thing is we are in the early stages of elite specs, which means naturally the build variety will stay low until we get more. Personally I think anet left their philosophy of all traitlines equal when they came up with elite specs, and I also believe they have a plan for the future of it. Let's say we get 3 more elite specs per profession - all of a sudden your pick of espec defines how your choice of profession plays, while in the old days they all did only 1 thing that defined their role. This is what I mean with especs brings more diversity. But as long as the choices are few, and core specs are still viable there will be a gap betweem them and people will still choose/want to play core as that's what they know and enjoy. But with the end goal being, say 5 especs, it's like choosing to play with only minor traits because you don't like the major ones. This will always put you at a disadvantage.

I understand your issue, and I have to admit I also struggle to accept we are moving into the next generation of combat, but it is a necessity for the longevity of the game. And it will be messy, especially now when we're not even halfway in the process, making balancing a nightmare. But looking at the patchnotes, it's clear the core specs are being left behind in favor of especs, simply because especs were made to be more powerful to begin with. They want to remove the old profession system where everyone had a glaring weakness and obvious strengths for a more even playingfield, and this includes leaving the old traitlines behind for a more "support" type of role.

The game is growing, and ofc we don't like change. But nerfing the strong specs anet has given us 2 years to get used to now, just so a few people can play the outdated and intentionally weaker builds isn't fair in my opinion. It's like the meta - if you choose to run something else because you like it, and it's not optimal, there's just no way you can be most effective. Then again, no one is going to stop you if you choose to do so - but it will most definitely be a challenge as the rest of the game moves forward.

We are given certain options to play that have strengths and limitations. By setting them apart from the normal and labeling them as "special," "elite," or "legendary" and imbued with additional abilities that makes them more powerful than similar items.

Elites should be a bit more powerful than their core counterparts, but each elite should on par with each other.

I think the opposite, as the name suggest, elites SHOULD be stronger than cores.

@ZeteCommander.4937 said:The elite should be distinctive, but should not exceed core from all aspects. The elite should be a choice.

While I would readily agree, such a balance is utopian. We have entirely too many trait lines, traits, abilities, stats, sigils and runes to keep things balanced. It's probably difficult enough as it is to ensure all of these specs are desired (and some are not) even when intentionally trying to make them stronger.

Doing so while keeping them balance without severely reducing the amount of customization available to us... not going to happen I think.

are they stronger though? I feel like I alternate and use most of the elite skills depending on the situation.

edit: nvm I thought you meant elite skills

the issue with elites over core is they layer powerful mechanics on to the existing mechanics of a class then they overload the elite trait line to buff that mechanic. the main issues crop up when you combine a trait line that buffs a core mechanic with an elite trait line. an elite needs to completely override a core mechanic to keep any kind of balance. instead we get these tacked on powers in the form of added F-skills instead. the game would benefit from the core mechanics going into a single trait line like the elite specs and the traits that buff them mechanics going in to it along with the utilities type that is the main theme of that class.

but it never going happen so we stuck with the power creep.

I have no problem with elite professions being more powerful than core per se. What I dislike though is giving up character concept. When I created my characters years back, I had some concept in mind. Now they are something completely different - because most elite professions are so much better it would be madness not to rebuild. For some professions, they don´t change a lot in "feel" (e.g. necro or elementalist subsets), others are completely different classes.

Gosh, I hope that does not make me a roleplayer :)

I'd enjoy this game again if they made Elites equal to core builds (I generally only like core builds). I basically gave my old account away due to this nonsense, and it keeps me from doing more than a few dailies.

Core builds were already unbalanced as it were.

If elite specs weren’t stronger than core specs what would be the point of them? Different playstyle? Meh. Anet wants to sell expansions and power creep is a way to do that.

I can't believe people are actually advocating in favor of selling power in video games.

Long ago Anet advertised Especs as being a different way of playing the core spec of equal power. Hah, it turned into massive overinflated powercreep so most feels compelled to play their espec.

@Trise.2865 said:I can't believe people are actually advocating in favor of selling power in video games.

Like Any other mmo that releases expansions and your character gets more powerful?

@Perses.9683 said:

@Trise.2865 said:I can't believe people are actually advocating in favor of selling power in video games.

Since launch the developers have stated that was something they never intend to do with this game. It's always been about adding more options without making prior end-game investments obsolete.

@Edge.4180 said:

@Perses.9683 said:

@Trise.2865 said:I can't believe people are actually advocating in favor of selling power in video games.

@Perses.9683 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:I can't believe people are actually advocating in favor of selling power in video games.

Those illusions other games use to trick players into believing they're making any sort of progression, only to have their "progress" reset with every new expansion without them realizing it because their numbers are bigger; otherwise known as the "grind treadmill"? Those things we came to GW2 to get AWAY from? Yes. Like that.