Necromancer needs a real support weapon.

Like the title says, Necros have very lackluster options when it comes to support. In general, I think Staff needs to be reworked for this purpose because as it stands, it's a pretty pointless weapon that has no fluidity or sense of purpose to it. You don't even necessarily have to get rid of the mark theme, but perhaps just make it so the marks can be triggered by allies and produce more supportive effects instead of a weird mish-mash of effects. I'll list out the individual skills and assess one by one.

1: Necrotic Grasp: Slow projectile auto-attack that takes 1.32 seconds per attack. Only supportive function to it is bonus to Lifeforce. It pierces at a 1,200 range, which grants 4% Lifeforce per target struck which all-in-all is not bad. It has a 20% chance to be a projectile finisher, but this is severely underwhelming in practical applications. It's a boring auto attack, but decent at the function of fueling lifeforce. I would personally increase the speed at which it attacks, but with changes to the other skills it might be fine as-is.

2. Mark of Blood: Currently the only piece of the weapon that is supporty in any fashion. Causes a minor amount of bleeding to enemies but more importantly grants Regen to allies for 6 seconds. Given that the recharge of the mark is 4.75 seconds, this means permanent regen uptime for the weapon, but really nothing else to it. Necromancer's version of healing support is already centered around small heals over time (and barriers with Scourge), and thus the regen becomes pretty lost for purpose.

3. Chilblains: Causes 4 seconds of chilled and 8 seconds of poison on a 16 second cooldown, and also creates a poison field which, in relation to the Staff 1 and later Staff 4, offers meager access to Poison or Weakness. Nothing about this skill is relevant to a support necro, and nothing about it is relevant to a condition necromancer. This is where the weapon really starts to deviate in it's sense of purpose given how the auto attack is in no way condition centric being only a power hit and lifeforce generation, and Mark of Blood which is mostly good for it's granted regeneration.

4. Putrid Mark: The strongest power strike on the staff weapon while also being a Blast finisher on a weapon (and class) that has no ability to make supportive fields, and even as a condition blast with Staff 3, it creates a super-forgettable AOE weakness. Has a side benefit of transferring conditions from yourself to foes when it is triggered. This is one of the reasons the weapon is favored in pvp I imagine, but it just does nothing for pve. We have a multiple of ways to deal with conditions on ourselves, and what it really needs is group support.

5. Reaper's Mark: A weak power strike and a 1 second fear on a 32 second cooldown. Once again, useful in come cases for pvp, but in pve it is basically useless. Scourges has the same exact function in Garish Pillar on a base 15 second cooldown, except with more damage attached to it. Reaper's mark is literally just a delayed Garish Pillar you set on the ground and hope someone doesn't roll into to avoid in pvp. In pve it's just filler that you press while you are waiting to drop another Mark of Blood while you wait for your weapon swap to switch so you can get out of this horrible weapon.

All in all, this one weapon has a combination of power striking, lifeforce generation, support, condition management, condition application, a combo field, blast and 20% projectile. And it is pretty much universally agreed that it has no place in pve beyond niche open world preferences. It needs a rework, as it's trying to do too much of everything that it does nothing at all. Necro has Dagger(MH)/GS for melee power, Axe/Focus for ranged power, Warhorn for CC and LF generation, Scepter/Dagger(OH)/Torch for ranged condi application. Staff has no role to fill in any of the common areas of the game. Make it a support weapon. We need one if Necromancer/Scourge is ever going to be taken seriously as even an off-meta variant on support.

Staff used to be one. But major nerfs to Mark of Blood and Putrid Mark killed their support functions. Remember, at that time, regen was harder to access to permanent uptimes was pretty good. Blood got one or two bleed stacks removed, and Putrid used to aoe transfer condi's from allies. That was really strong.

Basically, Staff has succumbed to power creep and could easily be fixed simply by un-nerfing it back to it's original form. The AA has always sucked though. Fix that. I suggest making it a 100% projectile finisher for access to blind, poison, and condi clears when combined with various wells.

Ruining something to fit scourge. Isn't the first time anet have done this.

@Rhyse.8179 said:Staff used to be one. But major nerfs to Mark of Blood and Putrid Mark killed their support functions. Remember, at that time, regen was harder to access to permanent uptimes was pretty good. Blood got one or two bleed stacks removed, and Putrid used to aoe transfer condi's from allies. That was really strong.

Basically, Staff has succumbed to power creep and could easily be fixed simply by un-nerfing it back to it's original form. The AA has always sucked though. Fix that. I suggest making it a 100% projectile finisher for access to blind, poison, and condi clears when combined with various wells.

This is the way to go in my opinion. Increase projectile velocity on auto, and grant 100% combo finisher. Also allow it to hit slightly past its max range like other 1200 range projectiles, so we can help hit 3rd floor smc cannons. Up the bleed stacks on blood to 3 again and shave the cooldown to 4s (that 3/4s left over from the 20% reduction being made baseline really irks me). Up the damage from blood and reapers to match chilblains. Up the poison stacks to 3 on chilblains. Reduce the cooldown on reapers to 25s.

@Lahmia.2193 said:Ruining something to fit scourge. Isn't the first time anet have done this.

This is the way to go in my opinion. Increase projectile velocity on auto, and grant 100% combo finisher. Also allow it to hit slightly past its max range like other 1200 range projectiles, so we can help hit 3rd floor smc cannons. Up the bleed stacks on blood to 3 again and shave the cooldown to 4s (that 3/4s left over from the 20% reduction being made baseline really irks me). Up the damage from blood and reapers to match chilblains. Up the poison stacks to 3 on chilblains. Reduce the cooldown on reapers to 25s.

I pretty much entirely disagree with most of the suggestions you have with the marks, given that it really is all about upping the damage. We don't really need staff to be damage for anything. We need a support weapon, and that is the point of this post, at the very least.

@Rhyse.8179 said:Staff used to be one. But major nerfs to Mark of Blood and Putrid Mark killed their support functions. Remember, at that time, regen was harder to access to permanent uptimes was pretty good. Blood got one or two bleed stacks removed, and Putrid used to aoe transfer condi's from allies. That was really strong.

Basically, Staff has succumbed to power creep and could easily be fixed simply by un-nerfing it back to it's original form. The AA has always sucked though. Fix that. I suggest making it a 100% projectile finisher for access to blind, poison, and condi clears when combined with various wells

I looked up the historical patch notes for Putrid Mark, which lists that the description was changed to match the functionality, rather than it being a nerf I think it was more along the lines of an incorrect listing. Granted, the original listing, I agree, would be a better support skill for us.

@Ceit.7619 said:

@Rhyse.8179 said:Staff used to be one. But major nerfs to Mark of Blood and Putrid Mark killed their support functions. Remember, at that time, regen was harder to access to permanent uptimes was pretty good. Blood got one or two bleed stacks removed, and Putrid used to aoe transfer condi's from allies. That was really strong.

Basically, Staff has succumbed to power creep and could easily be fixed simply by un-nerfing it back to it's original form. The AA has always sucked though. Fix that. I suggest making it a 100% projectile finisher for access to blind, poison, and condi clears when combined with various wells

What happened there was that it originally transferred all conditions from yourself and allies to all targets hit. They reduced that down to just 3 per target hit from you, but didn't change the tooltip at that time.

Does it have to be staff? what about focus?

While i want staff to be reworked, im not sure if i want this weapon as a suport, but definately i want it to use marks (also improve marks animation). maybe, just maybe, these marks could act like weaker versions of chronomancer wells.

• Mark of blood gives bleeding and torment to enemies and gives regeneration and protection to allies.
• Chillblains could give the same poison and chill to enemies while giving alacrity and resistnace to allies.
• Putrid mark could transfer conditions and also give resistance to allies.
• Reaper mark could give stability to allies, or give you stability depending in how many targets you feared.

But well, it is for your imagination, right now i dont know why mark of blood and chillblains can be merged together, there is no specific moment where i need to cast one mark or the other.

Imagine Staff1 mechanically worked like Axe1 (no projectlie, instant hit) but kept its current functionality (1,32 cast time/aftercast, 1200 range, damage, AOE, LF gain).

Weapon fixed!

Playstyle: Bunker yourself in Marks and spam Staff1.

@KrHome.1920 said:Imagine Staff1 mechanically worked like Axe1 (no projectlie, instant hit) but kept its current functionality (1,32 cast time/aftercast, 1200 range, damage, AOE, LF gain).

Weapon fixed!

Playstyle: Bunker yourself in Marks and spam Staff1.

Hell no

@Catchyfx.5768 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Imagine Staff1 mechanically worked like Axe1 (no projectlie, instant hit) but kept its current functionality (1,32 cast time/aftercast, 1200 range, damage, AOE, LF gain).

Weapon fixed!

Playstyle: Bunker yourself in Marks and spam Staff1.

• useless on core and reaper because these are not support specs
• not fitting into scourge theme as this spec supports via shades

-> Support Staff: bad idea

Staff as a condi utility weapon:

• already extremely strong in PvP
• nobody cares in PvE

-> Condi Staff: does not need changes at all (everyone that got staff- and shade-bombed by a scourge that has mastered area control, will agree)

Staff as a power utility weapon:

• needs a much better auto attack

-> Hell yes!

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Catchyfx.5768 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Imagine Staff1 mechanically worked like Axe1 (no projectlie, instant hit) but kept its current functionality (1,32 cast time/aftercast, 1200 range, damage, AOE, LF gain).

Weapon fixed!

Playstyle: Bunker yourself in Marks and spam Staff1.

• useless on core and reaper because these are not support specs
• not fitting into scourge theme as this spec supports via shades

• already extremely strong in PvP
• nobody cares in PvE

• needs a much better auto attack

I would say Staff is control weapon. It have many uses. Sure it isnt excelent in anything but can do a lot.Can you imagine if you have 30 necros AAing 1 person with staf?Insta bombs

Honestly the support weapon should have been torch nothing more if you want a support weapon then start looking at that before anything else.

I can imagine any class having 30 people AAing 1 person and they would die, the power of mass coordination against one person is pretty irrelevant to the conversation.

My only issue with the idea of changing Focus into a support weapon instead of staff, is that I don't think they could really make it so 2 skills at the end of our weapon skills could really shift the support/healer meta in any significant way. I certainly don't have a problem with that idea though, because I've not even considered equipping a focus in pve for years.

Saying Scourge only supports through it's Shade use is exactly the problem with Scourge at the moment, in how it has no good place in the PvE support meta because it doesn't have a baseline support skill set. Also saying that it would be useless on core is kind of an ignorant position considering that Core necro can run blood spec, which is the primary healing that a support necro gives regardless of elite-spec. Scourge's only support bonuses it adds to that is barriers, some might and a minor amount of condition management.

What I basically take away from a lot of the repliers here is that they like the staff for pvp, and so it should remain a useless pile of garbage in pve because it marginally helps them litter the field with area denial.

We have a weapon with a cool scythe effect yet we can’t do squat with it! It gets better on PvE objects and some bosses (treated like objects!) where marks don’t even trigger, and WvW where the autoattack never makes it to the target, no one cares about the marks and the condis get cleansed in seconds. I can’t say for certain that the weapon is held back by its marks, but I do think that the ‘stand and cast marks’ makes the staff a relatively boring weapon to use.

Like someone said, the AA requires some adjustment as it’s so slow (you can apparently run from it) and unimpactful. I don’t know for PvP, but I do know that marks have very little effect for area denial in WvW and is best used directly on players so that it triggers instantly. The trap-like trigger effect (though they’re not traps, you can see them) doesn’t justify the effects of the current marks, which seem rather weak compared to other options.

I don’t think support works very well with the current system of marks in particular (you’re meant to cast Mark of Blood on enemies to affect allies? Why do symbols do that better?). Personally, I would like to drive the necro away from the consistency between the light armor staff playstyle, and have a moveset similar to guard or rev staff. If marks could somehow still be incorporated into the weapon, along with a defined role (maybe hopefully support?), that would be pretty cool.

(What about Amala in Grenth mode? She could summon multiple marks without the same old casting animation, though honestly you could ignore them xD.)

100% finisher on auto, reverting Mark of Blood to 3 bleeds, or lengthening the 2, and reverting Putrid Mark to at least transfer some allies conditions would be great.

@Anchoku.8142 said:100% finisher on auto, reverting Mark of Blood to 3 bleeds, or lengthening the 2, and reverting Putrid Mark to at least transfer some allies conditions would be great.

I agree with making Putrid Mark transfer allies conditions would be a great step in the right direction for this. I still think the weapon would need some kind of healing to go with it however. Maybe some kind of vampiric effect that works like Parasitic Contagion. Conditions transferred to enemies tick their damage as healing to the ally or something to that effect. I don't really care about increasing the bleeding stacks on Mark of Blood, as this wouldn't really help with the support function. Regen by itself isn't enough of an assistance, but maybe something like the mark setting a vampiric effect on enemies that allies can then heal off of. Necromancers are already attached to vampiric skills and traits, maybe they could make some small adjustments to this but focus more on the support healing than the dealing damage parts of it.

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Catchyfx.5768 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Imagine Staff1 mechanically worked like Axe1 (no projectlie, instant hit) but kept its current functionality (1,32 cast time/aftercast, 1200 range, damage, AOE, LF gain).

Weapon fixed!

Playstyle: Bunker yourself in Marks and spam Staff1.

• useless on core and reaper because these are not support specs
• not fitting into scourge theme as this spec supports via shades

• already extremely strong in PvP
• nobody cares in PvE

• needs a much better auto attack

i use staff on my reaper in WvW. never leave home without it. yes i get shade bombed but i allow that to happen so i can give them the condis back. 8/10 i'll kill a scourge.its not always the weapon. its the player.

They could change staff auto attack to heal allies it fly trough and scale with healing power when scourge elite is equipped.Putrid Mark, should again transfer 1-2 condis for up to 5 players.Reaper's Mark, could heal and add resistance or vigor for instance or even protection.

@needbeer.1687 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Catchyfx.5768 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Imagine Staff1 mechanically worked like Axe1 (no projectlie, instant hit) but kept its current functionality (1,32 cast time/aftercast, 1200 range, damage, AOE, LF gain).

Weapon fixed!

Playstyle: Bunker yourself in Marks and spam Staff1.

• useless on core and reaper because these are not support specs
• not fitting into scourge theme as this spec supports via shades

• already extremely strong in PvP
• nobody cares in PvE

• needs a much better auto attack

Well solo scourge is the easiest spec to kill on any class.Consume conditions and suffer as only cleanses i still kill scourges pretty easily .

No need for staff.

Staff is only needed against really good enemies. But actually i only meet one of those players once every two weeks.

@needbeer.1687 said:

i use staff on my reaper in WvW. never leave home without it. yes i get shade bombed but i allow that to happen so i can give them the condis back. 8/10 i'll kill a scourge.its not always the weapon. its the player.

While i get that it has some usage in pvp modes, the point of the post is about how it is next to useless in pve and at it's support functions.