Raids

Dear ArenanetI'm sorry in advance for the rant that will be here. But I think it has a lot to do with the low participation of raids1) Need some kind of tutorials for new people (won't really help that much but at least kind of get things rolling 'slowly'2) Get rid of the KP thing. Because I ate who knows how much and people always demanding them. Yes, just the whole. Don't eat story but I don't want bags full of it. There should be some kind of thing that says you killed this boss this many times that you can link more appropriately. Because right now I'm getting rejected by people not because I am 'bad' but because I don't have these stupid tokens to link yet I have killed the bosses numerous times. The environment is toxic. So please find something to put like in pvp a star or something. Or some kind of achievement or participation in raids. That way people can at least say okay you should have enough knowledge to be in a group etc.

• I understand the frustration of some commanders of going through people that are new and don't want that and want their fast runs. But there are so many decent players being denied for silly reasons of quick fast kills. I guess that is the world of toxicity that's the rant. I'm not just talking on my behalf but of many others perhaps.
• 3) Encourage somehow people to pick up newer players somehow? And it's stupid because you need to know 'multi class' to be able to fit into a raid of four bosses. You cannot take the class that you like and into the raid wing and clear out 4 bosses with 1 character. We need condi here, we need power here, we need this here. And oh wait next boss we only need this. Next boss only that. That is part of the toxicity. Vale Guardian was good why? You need little of everything. And then it just goes into a complete hell of random multi mix . So people who want to join raids guess what? They can't because they like to play 1 character or maybe 2 if you're lucky. Only the ones that can spend hours and hours on end smashing a stupid golem can get in on 4-5 different characters. I agree you can learn the meta and I do that. But guess what not good enough dps stepping in. I think DPS meter was the first step of complete toxicity that should be barred because as long as boss goes down you're good. You can dps train in the golem and figure out where you are approximately, but to have others say well you are about 2k lower then the expected... gtfo.

These are just some points, but I feel that you should look at how to get more people involved in raids, and not cater to the small percent that do it. My thoughts and hope they help

@Kameko.8314 said:2) Get rid of the KP thing. Because I ate who knows how much

Have you tried fasting? It helps to curb your appetite.

i want do my fullclear in 2hours not in 5hours with 3-4druids there will always be ppl who want more stop crying!

1) There are training guilds for that.2) KPs are there so people can weed out those that don't know what they're doing. It won't go away mainly for the fact that it helps LFG runs get their clears faster. If you don't want to KPs, make your own run? ) Decent players won't get rejected, but I doubt you're one of them (sorry)4) Training raids. There are guilds and people who do training runs. If you keep an eye out, you'll find that guilds do tend to recruit for those. As long as you're willing to put the effort into learning a rotation, a schedule and a proper build, people will accept you.

@Kameko.8314 said:Dear ArenanetI'm sorry in advance for the rant that will be here. But I think it has a lot to do with the low participation of raids1) Need some kind of tutorials for new people (won't really help that much but at least kind of get things rolling 'slowly'

Join a guild which offers practice runs. Problem solved.

@Kameko.8314 said:2) Get rid of the KP thing. Because I ate who knows how much and people always demanding them. Yes, just the whole. Don't eat story but I don't want bags full of it. There should be some kind of thing that says you killed this boss this many times that you can link more appropriately. Because right now I'm getting rejected by people not because I am 'bad' but because I don't have these stupid tokens to link yet I have killed the bosses numerous times. The environment is toxic. So please find something to put like in pvp a star or something. Or some kind of achievement or participation in raids. That way people can at least say okay you should have enough knowledge to be in a group etc.

That would make the entire vetting process easier. If you are so new to raids that you "accidentally" removed all your kill proofs, I doubt you'd get picked up in the groups you want to join.

@Kameko.8314 said:

• I understand the frustration of some commanders of going through people that are new and don't want that and want their fast runs. But there are so many decent players being denied for silly reasons of quick fast kills. I guess that is the world of toxicity that's the rant. I'm not just talking on my behalf but of many others perhaps.

There is runs for experienced people of multiple levels and there is runs for training and less experienced people of multiple levels. Blaming part of the player base which wants to play with people who have similar experience is moot. People will always find ways to either find others of similar skill or at least try to do so. No other player is obligated to take an inexperienced player along on an experienced run and you as inexperienced player have no right to demand as much.

Once again, join a guild which raids (deson't have to be hardcore, there is enough casual raid guilds) and this problem goes away.

@Kameko.8314 said:

• 3) Encourage somehow people to pick up newer players somehow? And it's stupid because you need to know 'multi class' to be able to fit into a raid of four bosses. You cannot take the class that you like and into the raid wing and clear out 4 bosses with 1 character. We need condi here, we need power here, we need this here. And oh wait next boss we only need this. Next boss only that. That is part of the toxicity. Vale Guardian was good why? You need little of everything. And then it just goes into a complete hell of random multi mix . So people who want to join raids guess what? They can't because they like to play 1 character or maybe 2 if you're lucky. Only the ones that can spend hours and hours on end smashing a stupid golem can get in on 4-5 different characters. I agree you can learn the meta and I do that. But guess what not good enough dps stepping in. I think DPS meter was the first step of complete toxicity that should be barred because as long as boss goes down you're good. You can dps train in the golem and figure out where you are approximately, but to have others say well you are about 2k lower then the expected... gtfo.

Sorry but what you are describing is something which is happening in high performance raid groups. A new player will not be any where near this type of demand. Yes, if you are inexperienced and want to leech off of other peoples performance and try to join a high skill raid group which wants to rush through all the raids in 2-3 hours, you will get the boot and rightfully so.

Once again, join a guild and this problem goes away. When PUGing don't dictate to others what and how they should play. Either fulfill their demands or make your own group.

Tutorials exist all over the internet that explain the mechanics of the bosses really well

I agree, KP linking needs to go, because it's an item that takes inventory/bank space, it can be abused with chat codes and in general it's not a very good "measure" of skill. Something that works exactly like KP, but without it being an item, and resets every time a new meta is out would be ideal.

How can you tell if a player is decent?

The only way to encourage players to get new ones into Raids is to join a friendly guild

@"Kameko.8314" said:2) Get rid of the KP thing. Because I ate who knows how much and people always demanding them. Yes, just the whole. Don't eat story but I don't want bags full of it. There should be some kind of thing that says you killed this boss this many times that you can link more appropriately. Because right now I'm getting rejected by people not because I am 'bad' but because I don't have these stupid tokens to link yet I have killed the bosses numerous times. The environment is toxic. So please find something to put like in pvp a star or something. Or some kind of achievement or participation in raids. That way people can at least say okay you should have enough knowledge to be in a group etc.

Removing KP won't fix the issue at hand : most players think they're amazing but do the bare minimum required to complete bosses. And as long as this is true; which for a casual game as GW2 will be always; players will find ways to select between "better and worse". Now KP has some issues; you only get one every time you do a boss once a week and it's heavily RNG. I think anet should fix these issues.

Removing KP won't change a thing. It won't make players less toxic - the toxicity does not come from the KP but from trying to exclude players who aren't good enough for the boss. Removing LI / KP / ... won't remove selection methods; it will just move them to even more inaccurate ways. Rather make them more accurate by giving a single token per kill regardless of howmany times you repeat the boss during a week. After all; the tokens don't /really/ hold value.

Everything in your post says "please make it easier for me to join raid LFGs regardless of class, meta and requirements". I understand that many players feel this way. Unfortunately, the truth is nothing but supply and demand. The amount of players willing to make groups, the amount of groups willing to take pugs and their requirements do not match the demand of pugs who want to raid. You can state other groups are too elitist for your liking, but there is nothing that stops you from making your own group with your own requirements with less KP and less strict classes. Players are allowed to ask for whatever they wish; and if most pugs aren't willing to form their own groups and lead them through the bosses then they'll simply have to follow the rules of those that do.

Elitism isn't the result of any kind of killproof, LI, AP, KP, raid logs, titles, ... players will find a way to select "good" from "bad" no matter how superficial. Elitism is the result of not wanting to play with players who do not contribute (enough). Elitism is the result of not wanting to be delayed for extended periods of time because of a large mismatch in player skill or stubbornness. And frankly; there is nothing wrong with that. Not every raid has to be a training raid open for everyone; elitists are allowed to play the game at their level too.

TL DR : If you really like low / no KP requirement and off-meta raid specs; just make a group for it. I assure you you'll find players. Perhaps not the ones you want; but that's probably the main reason people have requirements. If you join a group, you'll have to follow their requirements.

I am definitely supporting your raid tab where you can see and share which boss you killed how many times but the rest of your complains can really easily be summarized with "get a guild" and "open your own squad". If it wasnt for my tag i would have missed out on months of deimos and dhuum kills. Thats gold well spent if you ask me.

"Only the ones that can spend hours and hours on end smashing a stupid golem can get in on 4-5 different characters."

almost never goes to the golem to practice and if so only spends like 20min there, raid leader complains a lot about that, still plays more than 10 different builds

i won't let some condi soulbeast run the whole full clear. he'll do low dps. dps should do high dps and not low. playing only 1 character he can go training but not a run for 2-3h. also KP filters bad players somehow.

Raids have plenty of tutorials on you tube. Anet does not need to implement, especially since the community does it better. The ping KP LI TITLE thing is useless in my opinion. There are plenty of horrible players that have them. For me idc what people play as long as we get the job done.

@"maddoctor.2738" said:

1. Tutorials exist all over the internet that explain the mechanics of the bosses really well
2. I agree, KP linking needs to go, because it's an item that takes inventory/bank space, it can be abused with chat codes and in general it's not a very good "measure" of skill. Something that works exactly like KP, but without it being an item, and resets every time a new meta is out would be ideal.
3. How can you tell if a player is decent?
4. The only way to encourage players to get new ones into Raids is to join a friendly guild

Why would it reset every time a new meta is out? The classes change (to some extend) not the encounters.

There has been the need for an actual ingame character sheet for a very long time now. Something that would allow us to display as much or as little information as we wish. Including everything from gear, to builds and finally kills on specific bosses.

@zealex.9410 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:

1. Tutorials exist all over the internet that explain the mechanics of the bosses really well
2. I agree, KP linking needs to go, because it's an item that takes inventory/bank space, it can be abused with chat codes and in general it's not a very good "measure" of skill. Something that works exactly like KP, but without it being an item, and resets every time a new meta is out would be ideal.
3. How can you tell if a player is decent?
4. The only way to encourage players to get new ones into Raids is to join a friendly guild

Well if not reset when the meta changes, at least reset at some point. The current system has major issues, as time passes on, the LI requirements become higher and higher. I'm thinking of a system similar to PVP rating decay, if you don't play Raids for a while, your rating will go down, time required to decay is debatable.

I think one GW2 weakness is its lack of in game tutorials. The game should teach you a lot about the different aspects, without forcing you go watch videos on YouTube, which I think most players would agree with.

That will make the completely new players undistinguishable from veterans that just picked up raids again after said reset. Which might seem to be good for the new players, but is definitely not something people putting requirements in LFGs want.

Decay on the surface might seem a bit better, but would have its own troubles. It would be able to show experience just up to the decay length. Unlike pvp, there are no "ranks" here, the only rating is through the amount of bosses killed, so obviously the lfgs would tend to ask for people that have enough of the "decaying LIs/KPs" to show they've been doing full clears for the whole decay time. That obviously will be good for the active veterans looking for other experienced people, but also extremely bad for those just starting, or those that took a break.

Say, if the decay time is , for example, 4 weeks people would ask in LFG for 4 KPs or 60-68 LIs. That mean to start getting into pugs, you would already need to do full clears for 4 weeks, and that any break in the schedule would make it harder to return for you.

Notice also, that the longer the decay period, the better information about experience it would give, while at the same time inceasing the abovementioned problems more and more. The shorter the period, the less problems it would create, but the less reliable the information it would give would be.

I don't think this would be good at all.

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

1. Tutorials exist all over the internet that explain the mechanics of the bosses really well
2. I agree, KP linking needs to go, because it's an item that takes inventory/bank space, it can be abused with chat codes and in general it's not a very good "measure" of skill. Something that works exactly like KP, but without it being an item, and resets every time a new meta is out would be ideal.
3. How can you tell if a player is decent?
4. The only way to encourage players to get new ones into Raids is to join a friendly guild

Id rather see more ppl use raid radar or what ever that app is. U can google players and have their performance there without issues.

@Tyson.5160 said:I think one GW2 weakness is its lack of in game tutorials. The game should teach you a lot about the different aspects, without forcing you go watch videos on YouTube, which I think most players would agree with.

They should teach you general things like breakbars, cc, boons etc. Learning you class is based on the build and builds are based on the players so finding them outside of the game is normal.

@zealex.9410 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:I think one GW2 weakness is its lack of in game tutorials. The game should teach you a lot about the different aspects, without forcing you go watch videos on YouTube, which I think most players would agree with.

Things like combo fields as well. If they teach these things from the get go with tutorials, it will generate better players in the long run.