Jormag = The Ruinous Powers

As far as I know, he's the only Elder Dragon who allows mortal followers to willingly pledge themselves to him (which is strange when they can just Corrupt you, willing or not). Likewise his "gifts" are very similar to those of the Ruinous Powers of Warhammer: they are very powerful, but very dangerous to the giftee as well. Those who are unworthy or otherwise incapable of handling them will "mutate" into horrible abominations* (Chaos Spawn in Warhammer, Icebrood in GW2) while those worthy/powerful enough to handle it are greatly rewarded (such as the high-ranking Svanir like the HoTWs bosses who are sort of akin to Champions of Chaos).

*Seriously, take a look at the Icebrood Colossus model. A real close look. Utter body horror, that.

Anyone else spotted this similarity?

Corruption is the main theme of ED's, for me the risens seems more look like chaos with the "flesh mess" of abominations and champions like the Mouth

@"Luindu.2418" said:Corruption is the main theme of ED's, for me the risens seems more look like chaos with the "flesh mess" of abominations and champions like the Mouth

Looks have absolutely nothing to do with it.

Well Chaos is vikings in Warhammer fantasy and the Icebrood are mostly Norn...

My bad, the Risen comparison was a personal opinion added :) . I have to be more explicit with the corruption, afaik Jormag only "seduces" people to convert them (like Modremoth with silvary's) without not any other interest.About Svanir the wiki says: "The voice promised power and prey, and Svanir began to communicate with it. Eventually he became corrupted into insanity, becoming the champion of Jormag known as the Nornbear" (source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sons_of_Svanir ), that doesn't seems let him free will.Even you can saw it in GW EotN that this "eventually" is faster than it sounds:

Not familiar with Warhammer but...

@"Oglaf.1074" said:Those who are unworthy or otherwise incapable of handling them will "mutate" into horrible abominations* (Chaos Spawn in Warhammer, Icebrood in GW2) while those worthy/powerful enough to handle it are greatly rewarded (such as the high-ranking Svanir like the HoTWs bosses who are sort of akin to Champions of Chaos).

All icebrood actually suffer the fate of the colossus, more or less. The entire method of corruption for icebrood is a case of "skin, muscle, and hair slowly turning into ice" that would eventually just leave a skeleton within an ice(brood) elemental.

The Oppressor model is very similar to this, with half the muscles and skin of the face being gone, and the entire body encased in ice.

The high-ranking svanir like the HotW bosses are still "young" Icebrood norn. The "old" Icebrood norn models are the Oppressor, Colossus, and Goliath models.

Most icebrood norn utilize this, this, or this model, all of which only have the arms iced up, their chest still flesh. The HotW bosses almost all exclusively utilize the second model (most icebrood norn do, in fact).

Though there are two "inbetween young and old" icebrood norn models:

• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Havram_Girthbinder.jpg
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Svanir_Shaman_Chief.jpgIn which we see their bodies are fully iced, at least what's visible, but they're not "grown and no longer retaining original shape" icebrood like the oppressor, goliath, and colossus models.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Not familiar with Warhammer but...

@"Oglaf.1074" said:Those who are unworthy or otherwise incapable of handling them will "mutate" into horrible abominations* (Chaos Spawn in Warhammer, Icebrood in GW2) while those worthy/powerful enough to handle it are greatly rewarded (such as the high-ranking Svanir like the HoTWs bosses who are sort of akin to Champions of Chaos).

• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Havram_Girthbinder.jpg
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Svanir_Shaman_Chief.jpg
  In which we see their bodies are fully iced, at least what's visible, but they're not "grown and no longer retaining original shape" icebrood like the oppressor, goliath, and colossus models.

So objectively speaking, Elder Dragons are less trustworthty than the Chaos Gods.

Then again, do we actually know if Jormag promises them this or if it is just the Sons having a very flawed understanding of how his Corruption actually works? Their attitude towards it is almost identical to how Chaos worshippers view Chaos after all.

By all appearances, Jormag only promises power to those who want it. There's no shown commentary on how one would look after accepting that power.

The Sons of Svanir themselves hunt icebrood as part of their training to prove their worth, so it's not like they don't know how old icebrood look. There's no example, as far as I'm aware, of Sons commenting on the loss of flesh into skeletal-containing ice horrors.

+1 @Konig Des Todes.2086

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:By all appearances, Jormag only promises power to those who want it. There's no shown commentary on how one would look after accepting that power.What do you think about Svanir? accept freely or corrupted by force in that moment? I can't remember if there are any conversation more specific about that.And that cinematic could be the only example of transformation, even if isn't an actual Icebrood.

what jormag offers is power in exchange for a norn's individualism. what the svanir believe is that jormag is a spirit of the wild (dragon) and that he is the most powerful of the spirits. they don't believe (or at least most whom aren't being lied to) that if they're strong enough they can prevent turning into icebrood and keep all the power granted by jormag.

@"derd.6413" said:what jormag offers is power in exchange for a norn's individualism. what the svanir believe is that jormag is a spirit of the wild (dragon) and that he is the most powerful of the spirits. they don't believe (or at least most whom aren't being lied to) that if they're strong enough they can prevent turning into icebrood and keep all the power granted by jormag.

But then they're morons and I sorta refuse to see them as such.

Fools deluded by false promises of power, surely.

But taking this "deal" fully-well knowing that you'll turn brainless Icebrood?

No way.

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@"derd.6413" said:what jormag offers is power in exchange for a norn's individualism. what the svanir believe is that jormag is a spirit of the wild (dragon) and that he is the most powerful of the spirits. they don't believe (or at least most whom aren't being lied to) that if they're strong enough they can prevent turning into icebrood and keep all the power granted by jormag.

Well in Bitterfrost frontier it's made out pretty clearly that most Svanir and icebrood aren't very bright, but it's possible that Jormag is deceptive about the whole brainless part, and the Svanir are just blinded by their desire for more power.

From what (little) we're given, it seems less that the Sons are unaware of the potential side effects, and more that the sort of person that's drawn to the group is also the sort that convinces themself that they'll be the one that's different, that they'll be the one who's strong enough to resist the consequences, or prove themself in some way that the others haven't, or however they choose to rationalize the choice.

@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:From what (little) we're given, it seems less that the Sons are unaware of the potential side effects, and more that the sort of person that's drawn to the group is also the sort that convinces themself that they'll be the one that's different, that they'll be the one who's strong enough to resist the consequences, or prove themself in some way that the others haven't, or however they choose to rationalize the choice.

Indeed, which very much is the mindset of a Chaos worshipper.

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@"derd.6413" said:what jormag offers is power in exchange for a norn's individualism. what the svanir believe is that jormag is a spirit of the wild (dragon) and that he is the most powerful of the spirits. they don't believe (or at least most whom aren't being lied to) that if they're strong enough they can prevent turning into icebrood and keep all the power granted by jormag.

never underestimate what ppl will do in the name of religion or survival. svanir are basicly the isis of norn

@Luindu.2418 said:+1 @Konig Des Todes.2086

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:By all appearances, Jormag only promises power to those who want it. There's no shown commentary on how one would look after accepting that power.What do you think about Svanir? accept freely or corrupted by force in that moment? I can't remember if there are any conversation more specific about that.And that cinematic could be the only example of transformation, even if isn't an actual Icebrood.

There have been statements in-game and by devs that Svanir accepted those promises of power of his own will. So he was not forced. We only see some Sons of Svanir force others, while we do see some icebrood trick others into accepting it willingly (e.g., the Dragonspawn hypnotizing - for lack of a better word - victims into accepting the power) none forcibly corrupt.

@"Oglaf.1074" said:But taking this "deal" fully-well knowing that you'll turn brainless Icebrood?

Not all icebrood are mindless, just most (like like any other dragon minion that was corrupted beings); it seems among the Sons-turned-icebrood, those who "prove their worth" the most get the most power, thus retain the most personality and intelligence (e.g., Koda's Bane from HotW story).

Which, again is very Chaos-y: The belief that you can “beat the odds” and not end up a Chaos Spawn.

That sits way better with me than the Sons just being flat-out morons.