Basically this is the reason why sic'em must be an AoE reveal.

I'd like to know how to fight against this...

While I made a post not that long ago about an upgrade to ranger shouts in general, I dont think making it an aoe would have changed anything in this scenario. If AN did make it an aoe of say 360 , the shot looked further away than that. It seemed to me to be a stealthed deadeye in which you wouldn't necessarily know where they were to begin with. They were very likely to have been running a glassy build just to do that one thing.

@"anduriell.6280" said:

I'd like to know how to fight against this...

even if i run a paladin amulet, i have no way of escaping this... coz, i got only 2 dodges and the bullets keeep finding me every second... even if i fortunately hide behind an obstacle hoping in vain that i'd be safe, they generate malice and they insta relocate to a different place and BAM! I'm dead... and once they hit me, they gain initiative and they spam this whole charade all over again...

unlike pew pew ranger who has to wait for CDs and run around and dangerous to stay in one place... and LB 3 is a total mess and its always a hit or miss... even if it does, only 3 secs... if i need to reset fight, i need quickening zephyr... but if i choose that, i can't be a pew pew(close to how DE works) and even if i use QZ and run away, thieves easily and blindly get to my position and reck me

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

@"anduriell.6280" said:

I'd like to know how to fight against this...

@"anduriell.6280" said:

I'd like to know how to fight against this...

May be you should play the de and learn it because what you just said is so untrue.

The de here also has 2 dodges sure it has a ton of stealth which is really bad be default but it has 0 blocks agis protection or any thing like that.

Could try using GS for blocks and mobility your self as de rifle ports backwards away unless they are willing to use a stun break.

Rangers are 1 of the hardest counters to thief lately.

Every deadeye runs shadowarts these days because of the perma stealth. You can keep perma stealth by marking random mobs, dodging with rifle and spending initiative with dagger/pistol. While Sick em' is a good skill to have on a regular thief / DD or mesmer / engi it's usefulness is cut short by deadeye elite that removes revealed.The other day a warrior in teamchat was shocked to find out he got 1 shot with 23k health and 1,6k toughness. Literally from full to zero. Even the passive endure pain didn't trigger. The highest i was hit in a single shot was 27k and im runing marauder with durability (ironic rune name given the circumstances, isn't it?)The only counterplay is to run away and just not engage in a fight with one because they'll just mark you, stealth > stealth > stealth > stealth > hit you for 7 malice > stealth > stealth > stealth > activate signet > one shot. If you retaliate they'll just repeat the cycle. It's a dull, boring gameplay, but eh. whatever, it's probably here to stay./balance.

funny how ranger using gimmick build complains about thief using gimmick build xD

Sic 'Em as an aoe reveal wouldn't have changed anything in this scenario. Keep in mind that aoe reveals tend to have tells and can be dodged, assuming you're lucky enough to do it when the thief is close in the first place. I much prefer Sic 'Em in its current form as changing it to an aoe reveal instead of a reveal with a 2,000 range would lessen its usefulness when paired with longbow.

As to the video, the combat log shows the deadeye landing ini costing shots against you before it hit with that backstab. If you're not able to burst the deadeye down as it's building malice with rifle, then the best policy would've probably been to disengage until the mark fell off. Deadeye hurts for mobility compared to daredevil, and this deadeye in particular wouldn't have been able to keep up with a soulbeast as it wasn't running shortbow. After the mark fell off, you'd be free to re-engage to try and burst it down as it tried to rebuild its malice against you.

@"anduriell.6280" said:

I'd like to know how to fight against this...

You sat there and let malice build.You didn't try to get away.You didn't move behind anything that could block a projectile.

I don't know how obvious it had to be. You were pulsing RED!That's code for OH SH*T I'M ABOUT TO GET LIT UP LIKE A CHRISTMAS TREE!

Unless you know, you stood there like a deer in the head lights just to try to make a point....

Assuming honest intentions, you're in WvW...so it doesn't really matter.Have you talked to any other serious roaming WvW'ers?Don't fight the DE. That's the general consensus.They can't chase you down.But if you stay to fight, they will do what they do and you will die.

I don't understand how you took this situationand equated it to'sicem needs to be aoe'.

For it to have helped you in this situation, it would of had to be Rifle range lol...

We should also get a bat pet and a dolphin pet that have AoE revealed and vulnerability in a large area in their pet attack.

You could have stealthed off something with LB 3 when malice reached high levels as indicated by the orange glowing on you. You could have pressed your invulnerable signet. You could have used line of sight better. You could have greatsword 4'd if that's your offset weapon as he gave up basilisk venom for more stealth and was blockable.As a ranger you have a lot of options against thieves. I doubt that an aoe reveal would have helped in this scenario, (and btw the engy with you could have traited scrapper and provided that).

Sicem should be 2000 rad reveal as it is now... That is the only way we can reveal DE and 6secs should be enough for us to get away provided we have cover and that's not an open field.... QZ might help... But then again, you're slowly turning to the survivability side rather than high DPS... But DE got dps and survivability with perma stealth

@Blackari.2051 said:funny how ranger using gimmick build complains about thief using gimmick build xD

What is considered not a gimmick build? For rangers that is.

@Xenash.1245 said:

@Blackari.2051 said:funny how ranger using gimmick build complains about thief using gimmick build xD

a build that has more than 2 dodges and doesn't use marksmanship

the dmg from stealth is insane but for a ranger it surely is easier to hit sic em + lb 2 than backstabbingif you didn't see the de at all, you will get surprised and might not recover, but whenever you get marked it shouldn't be a problem as rangers have stealth aswell and more mobility than de

d/p thieves is much more of a nightmare

@Koen.1327 said:

@Xenash.1245 said:

@Blackari.2051 said:funny how ranger using gimmick build complains about thief using gimmick build xD

you can see a ranger using lb2 but you cant see a thief backstabbing you, i would choose to fight against a ranger .

@urdriel.8496 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Xenash.1245 said:

@Blackari.2051 said:funny how ranger using gimmick build complains about thief using gimmick build xD

ye but i meant in this situation, de vs ranger.for me, as a ranger, de is one of the easiest classes to burst down. ofc if i have the chance to but also avoiding a de is easy as well.

soulbeast can actually do the same, stealthing for 10+ seconds into worldly impact, hitting for 20k+it's not desirable to hit such high numbers, but the builds themselves aren't really good.

@Koen.1327 said:

@Xenash.1245 said:

@Blackari.2051 said:funny how ranger using gimmick build complains about thief using gimmick build xD

Only part of this I disagree with is the idea that Rangers have more mobility than Deadeye. It just isnt true. Not while Deadeye still has access to several teleport skills.

@Khailyn.6248 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Xenash.1245 said:

@Blackari.2051 said:funny how ranger using gimmick build complains about thief using gimmick build xD

Aw, well-- the problem is words.He didn't limit the use of 'mobility' to 'port' skills, which Rangers doesn't really have any other than Smokescale f2 for soulbeast.

But sword 2 has 2 leaps.Greatsword has one leap.Staff 3 for druid.The soulbeast f1 leaps from multiple pets.Not to mention a near endless amount of swiftness.

I know this, a DE isn't chasing me down and doing bad things to me.

This is more or less an L2P issue, as cheesy as SA deadeye is, and why the stealth-camping-sniper/burst concept is garbage as a whole. Really, this is why stacked stealth on all professions needs to be deleted from the game.

• OP failed to dodge/SoS after the initial hit. The damage is even predicated by the blind being applied from Shadow Shot, and if OP had their camera zoomed out further back or used look-behind often, the projectile on Shadow Shot is visible even while the thief is in stealth, which can be dodged as well. Sorry but in the current game every profession deals this kind of damage, too. OP died in the amount of time as RF combo kills a thief and they weren't stunned out of the dodge, either. This combo is nothing new; SA D/P Daredevil does the same thing.
• OP had supply in a friendly camp and got melee-killed by a thief they knew was in stealth nearby. Leap smokescale or Hunter's Shot an ambient for stealth to safely deploy a stealth trap. Interrupt with PBS their Meld if they try to cleanse it.
• OP stood still against a thief with predictable forward-run movement. Stealth build, DE, or not, it didn't matter. If you're not moving and changing direction to make backstab hit frontally, you're eating a max backstab from a good thief.
• OP did not use LoS at all within the camp negating the possibility of rifle bursts or denial of Shadow Shot's teleports/backstabs.
• Get a mobile or stealth-allowing pet. SB has so much more mobility than every played DE build in WvW. Thief's overall mobility is composed almost entirely from shortbow, which DE doesn't run, and the only comparable skill they'll have is Shadowstep. Bird beast skill 1 has the same mobility and an 80% lower cooldown.
• Stealth-camping DE generally has crap for chase potential since it depends on D/P for stealth and BP no longer works as an instant mid-leap finisher, and the DE can't clear the camp without exiting stealth as it is, making it pointless to stay there without stealth traps. Leave the immediate area and let the mark fall off and let the thief start the camp, then immediately kill it using PBS+RF which ignores stealth.
• OP clearly had no idea where the thief was so even with Sic 'Em as a ground-targeted AoE like Barrage it would have been totally useless.

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:But sword 2 has 2 leaps.Greatsword has one leap.Staff 3 for druid.The soulbeast f1 leaps from multiple pets.Not to mention a near endless amount of swiftness.

I know this, a DE isn't chasing me down and doing bad things to me.We don't have more mobility than a thief, affirming otherwise is silly.Sword leaps moves you almost the same distance as running with swiftness: not worth it unless you are desperate for the evades.Greatsword is very clunky at best. it's 1100 units.One leap from one pet, let's say bird: 1200.

Still a Deadeye will catch to you if you don't have a good distance between you both to begin with.

My point with this video is how stealth and that class is designed and if the only solution you give me is to run and consider that a valid solution there is something wrong there.

Stealth needs a rework and specially thief a class that is so designed to abuse that mechanic that is becoming silly. In otehr games something that can do 25K damage in less than a second to a 2800 armor from invisibility is could be consider cheating or broken beyond normal reason.

But well we are with 20k meteors still right?

@anduriell.6280 said:

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:But sword 2 has 2 leaps.Greatsword has one leap.Staff 3 for druid.The soulbeast f1 leaps from multiple pets.Not to mention a near endless amount of swiftness.

I know this, a DE isn't chasing me down and doing bad things to me.We don't have more mobility than a thief, affirming otherwise is silly.Sword leaps moves you almost the same distance as running with swiftness: not worth it unless you are desperate for the evades.Greatsword is very clunky at best. it's 1100 units.One leap from one pet, let's say bird: 1200.

I never said Ranger had more mobility than Thief.We have a number of tools at our disposal and are not sitting sucks for DE's.A deadeye may catch you, but he won't catch me.

Not once have any of your conclusions added up.

You did nothing to counterplay the DE in your videoAn AOE reveal would have done nothing to help you.You were asking for a buff to SicEmYou changed your story and now your saying Stealth needs a rework

@anduriell.6280 said:

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:But sword 2 has 2 leaps.Greatsword has one leap.Staff 3 for druid.The soulbeast f1 leaps from multiple pets.Not to mention a near endless amount of swiftness.

I know this, a DE isn't chasing me down and doing bad things to me.We don't have more mobility than a thief, affirming otherwise is silly.Sword leaps moves you almost the same distance as running with swiftness: not worth it unless you are desperate for the evades.Greatsword is very clunky at best. it's 1100 units.One leap from one pet, let's say bird: 1200.

I want to see something along the lines of no target needed to proc the 40% damage, pet teleport to target (something akin to cheetah skill), or a cripple/slow. AoE reveal is definitely useful in a lot of circumstances but thematically I don't see much sense unless its a flare of sorts. New skill idea?

@anduriell.6280 said:

We don't have more mobility than a thief, affirming otherwise is silly.

Ranger running bird or GS has more mobility than DE does.

Greatsword is very clunky at best. it's 1100 units.

With a short cooldown. DE's only real movement skill is 1200 on a 50s cooldown.

One leap from one pet, let's say bird: 1200.

Still a Deadeye will catch to you if you don't have a good distance between you both to begin with.

Only if you stand still and let him shadow shot successfully. Otherwise you have the range and mobility advantage. DE has no steal mobility and doesn't run shortbow which is literally why tge thief is mobile as a profession. Its mobility skills are higher cooldown than every other profession otherwise.

My point with this video is how stealth and that class is designed and if the only solution you give me is to run and consider that a valid solution there is something wrong there.

No, your point was to ask for a buff that makes no sense in attempts to justify your terrible play and lack of understanding of the matchup. If you want to complain about stealth, it's a separate issue and since thr addition of smokescale, ranger is similarly guilty.

There's a huge difference between disengaging to force their advantage away and running away entirely. Some builds are also designed to 1v1 and camp a location with little mobility. Disengaging is how you play core thief into everything. You had the option to be the one to reset. SB has a favorable matchup into DE.

Stealth needs a rework and specially thief a class that is so designed to abuse that mechanic that is becoming silly. In otehr games something that can do 25K damage in less than a second to a 2800 armor from invisibility is could be consider cheating or broken beyond normal reason.

And yet you could have done things to counter it and didn't. Also 20k from stealth is nothing new and not exclusive to the thief. It's super easy to make a 20k Maul/WI stealth ranger with multiple immunes. Holosmith does the same thing while CC'ing you and legitimately has no counterplay except to wait out HForge which is hard thanks to endurance regen food. Ranger longbow can AA for 10k easily from 1800 range. Mesmer stealth combo also hits between 25-40k

Yes, stealth is a problem. Yes, DE is crap design. But no, Sic 'Em isn't the solution, and stealth cheese and stacking stealth is not a problem exclusive to thief at all.

@"anduriell.6280" said:

But well we are with 20k meteors still right?

No, not so much after next week's patch

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Leap smokescale or Hunter's Shot an ambient for stealth to safely deploy a stealth trap.

Deploying a stealth trap immediately breaks you out of stealth the moment you begin casting it.