can we show necromancers some love?

I am getting tired of condi necro nerf after condi necro nerf (PVE) wise and I have honestly quite the game until condi necro becomes fun again, yes I understand power necro should be somewhat viable but if you want a power build play another class or something not freaking necromancer which is a CASTER at its base and supposed to be THE KING OF CONDITION DAMAGE yet it is not, and this focus that all abilities of a necor should corrupt boons is ridicoules mainly because most PVE enemies IN THE LONG RUN will not have boons if anything they will have some starting boons and maybe boons every once in a while but not enough to be making all these abilities of necros not inflict pure condis and only inflict condis if it corrupts a boon. please buff condi necro ffs because it has been nothing but nerf nerf nerf and it ALL STARTED with the jagged terror nerf so long ago and ever since then condi necro has been getting worse and worse and quickly lost its KING OF CONDI role THAT IT SHOULD HAVE. now with these epidemic nerfs it is just getting ridicoules because that was the really only way a necro could effectively deal with groups of enemies, so now their single target damage is meh (not the best condi out of all the condi builds) and now their aoe condi has just become garbage

You really need to spell check.I play my scourge and its condi based and I find it's still great for me in pve.

AoE scourge condi is still top. Epidemic was nerfed. Scourge can still apply an absurd amount of torment burn bleed poison in a wide aoe. Maybe you should elaborate a bit more?

You don't need huge condi dmg to sit in one place for several months killing the same respawns do you.

Oops apparently there are other uses for necro's aside from AFK farming, my bad :)

There is actually plenty of reasons to take necros with you in raids, there is just not a single reason to take them over any other class. Boonhate can be done by other classes with higher DPS, healing can be done by other classes with more offensive boons, tanking can be done by other classes with better damage mitigation... and damage can be done by other classes with... well.. more damage. Some number buffs or trait modernizations could do wonders to my beloved necromancer. That said, I am still very successful in pugging with my scourge and after the balance patch i even finished my very first boss encounter as a power reaper. It is definitely possible. Just not optimal

I like how people complain at their main class not doing so well in a certain game mode, in wvw and in spvp Condi scourge pretty much defined the meta, I want to zerg with my thief or my engie but they don't perform as well if at all to other classes. And pve??? Can't you run any Thing and still blindly face roll it? If you're talking about raids then well, run what meta is like everyone else has to in there other game modes.

@wrathmagik.3518 said:You really need to spell check.

I nearly passed out reading that sentence in one breath.

Is Necro supposed to be a condi profession or is it one of the ways to play them? Maybe their strengths lie elsewhere or you need to look into the build you're using. Are you maxing out condition damage and duration?

After being a button-pusher for a few years, I finally began to look into the synergy of my builds, weapons, and armor. I can't say that I play any better, but I have noticed an ease in clearing areas.

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:I like how people complain at their main class not doing so well in a certain game mode, in wvw and in spvp Condi scourge pretty much defined the meta, I want to zerg with my thief or my engie but they don't perform as well if at all to other classes. And pve??? Can't you run any Thing and still blindly face roll it? If you're talking about raids then well, run what meta is like everyone else has to in there other game modes.

To be honest, Scourge was quite balanced in sPvP after the first nerf which turned shades into a visual eyesore and gave them a delay which enabled people to dodge shade-skills. The further nerfs are totally unnecessary, especially since Scourge has some very obvious weaknesses (stealth and ranged dps). In PvE, Necro is back to trash-tier now, which is quite sad. It's fun that you say people should just switch to what's currently meta for raids and fractals. That excuse is blatantly stupid. People should be able to play the class they like to play in every game-mode. Anything else is just bad game-design. I could throw that ludicrous argument back to you though: Why nerf Scourge in PvP? Just play Scourge and go with the meta. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

@Raizel.8175 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:I like how people complain at their main class not doing so well in a certain game mode, in wvw and in spvp Condi scourge pretty much defined the meta, I want to zerg with my thief or my engie but they don't perform as well if at all to other classes. And pve??? Can't you run any Thing and still blindly face roll it? If you're talking about raids then well, run what meta is like everyone else has to in there other game modes.

But you can play what you like, nothing is stopping you. I assume you're talking about raids (i dont do raids/fractals) to which I understand is meant to be end game or high end pve where specific compositions and builds are required, not just byob trash dungeon runs. I ca use your argument too vs organised meta pug zerg vs random pug zerg. Condi/hybrid scourge is still strong in 2/3 game modes. Wasn't theif always kicked from raids pre patches but now welcome after them few changes?

Heeeeeell no.

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:I like how people complain at their main class not doing so well in a certain game mode, in wvw and in spvp Condi scourge pretty much defined the meta, I want to zerg with my thief or my engie but they don't perform as well if at all to other classes. And pve??? Can't you run any Thing and still blindly face roll it? If you're talking about raids then well, run what meta is like everyone else has to in there other game modes.

The problem about it:Anet introduced skill splits, yet they suck at skill splitting.Else necro would be a viable and good DPS or healer in raidsWhile still be good in PvP/wvw

And i don't think thief is bad. It has now the top role in pve and in wvw/PvP it was very strong before the patch. It got even easier to oneshot people.

Thief is as viable as necro in wvw. In roaming thief is maybe the strongest class, but thief is bad in zergs.For necro it's the other way round. It's strong in zergs but sux at roaming.

Everyone here is talking about socurge.Scourge should have never been a heavy damage hitter in the first place and thats where anet made the mistake. They wanted to avoid another Hot meta of having necro be tanky even more so under what scourge is being called "A support spec" So they invested in its kill potential way more than they should have.

As for the OPNecro was not sold as the "king of condition damage" to be more accurate its "Master of conditions" Which is more implied to being able to apply a wide variety of conditions, which its does more than any other profession, while being able to manage conditions on the enemy via corrupting boons and itself via clear and transfer, which it also has plenty of.

Necros condition application in one spread is wide but not very potent which is why it has such a long ramp up time opposed to mesmer, ranger, guardian, where they only focus between 1 maybe 3 damaging conditions at max and can apply them in much higher intensity.But then you have necro who can press one button and slam a foe with 5-7 different conditions and while only 1 or 2 of them will be damaging its alot of heavy pressure that pressure plays a role in the necro's sustain. So its not that our damage is low its just that ramp times are years long in comparison to other professions.

In general pve you didn't need epidemic to hit alot of wide aoe conditions even without scourge

While i do think alot of the recent nerfs are unjustified they should have been compensatedMore upfront condition damage on core necro or even reaper should have been in exchange to the epidemic nerfMore support power should have been plugged into scourge for its nerf with dhuumfire.

@"ZDragon.3046" said:Everyone here is talking about socurge.Scourge should have never been a heavy damage hitter in the first place and thats where anet made the mistake. They wanted to avoid another Hot meta of having necro be tanky even more so under what scourge is being called "A support spec" So they invested in its kill potential way more than they should have.

As for the OPNecro was not sold as the "king of condition damage" to be more accurate its "Master of conditions" Which is more implied to being able to apply a wide variety of conditions, which its does more than any other profession, while being able to manage conditions on the enemy via corrupting boons and itself via clear and transfer, which it also has plenty of.

Necros condition application in one spread is wide but not very potent which is why it has such a long ramp up time opposed to mesmer, ranger, guardian, where they only focus between 1 maybe 3 damaging conditions at max and can apply them in much higher intensity.But then you have necro who can press one button and slam a foe with 5-7 different conditions and while only 1 or 2 of them will be damaging its alot of heavy pressure that pressure plays a role in the necro's sustain. So its not that our damage is low its just that ramp times are years long in comparison to other professions.

In general pve you didn't need epidemic to hit alot of wide aoe conditions even without scourge

While i do think alot of the recent nerfs are unjustified they should have been compensatedMore upfront condition damage on core necro or even reaper should have been in exchange to the epidemic nerfMore support power should have been plugged into scourge for its nerf with dhuumfire.

Well to be honest, this is the description of necro:

Practitioners of the dark arts, necromancers summon the dead, wield the power of lost souls, and literally suck the life force from the enemy. Necromancers feed on life force, which they can use to bring allies back from the brink or cheat death itself.

— GuildWars2.com Necromancer

Necromancers are masters of the dark arts. They summon the dead to fight for them, channel blood energy and rend their enemies' souls. Necromancers draw on life force and use it to strengthen or heal themselves and others. As a scholar profession, necromancers wear light armor

There are a lot of things that necro can't really do.-Cheat death? No, that would be like rezzing completely dead people while being infight in wvw.-draw on lifeforce and use it to strengthen and heal allies? Ok maybe with the scourge profession, but not before

I think one of the challenges for balancing Scourge is how barriers work.

Stack a bunch of Guardians and you get 100% protection up-time but not total invulnerability.

Stack a bunch of Ele or Duids and you can get a lot of healing, up to full health, but outgoing damage drops.

Stack a bunch of Scourges sharing barriers, corrupting boons, burn-bursting, and still using staff and wells... Barriers are deducted straight off of all incoming damage so stacking Scourges is sharing shroud, which can effectively work like an invulnerability boon to professions who do not necessarily need it.

Stacking Scourges is a problem because of how barrier was designed yet, without stacking, it may seem under-tuned because Arenanet knows very well what happens when Necromancers stack. 100% barrier duration and quick refilling is a pretty awesome counter to a lot of profession skills. That kind of thing can trivialize other strategies in WvW.

This is one reason I do not see Scourge as a successful design.

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:Everyone here is talking about socurge.Scourge should have never been a heavy damage hitter in the first place and thats where anet made the mistake. They wanted to avoid another Hot meta of having necro be tanky even more so under what scourge is being called "A support spec" So they invested in its kill potential way more than they should have.

As for the OPNecro was not sold as the "king of condition damage" to be more accurate its "Master of conditions" Which is more implied to being able to apply a wide variety of conditions, which its does more than any other profession, while being able to manage conditions on the enemy via corrupting boons and itself via clear and transfer, which it also has plenty of.

Necros condition application in one spread is wide but not very potent which is why it has such a long ramp up time opposed to mesmer, ranger, guardian, where they only focus between 1 maybe 3 damaging conditions at max and can apply them in much higher intensity.But then you have necro who can press one button and slam a foe with 5-7 different conditions and while only 1 or 2 of them will be damaging its alot of heavy pressure that pressure plays a role in the necro's sustain. So its not that our damage is low its just that ramp times are years long in comparison to other professions.

In general pve you didn't need epidemic to hit alot of wide aoe conditions even without scourge

While i do think alot of the recent nerfs are unjustified they should have been compensatedMore upfront condition damage on core necro or even reaper should have been in exchange to the epidemic nerfMore support power should have been plugged into scourge for its nerf with dhuumfire.

Back when this was written you have to consider that the conept of how necro worked and all other tools across all professions were vastly different.

Necro was sone of the few profession with a utility that could revive people form the downed state. At one point death shroud would only trigger once you went into the down state allowing you to pretty much cheat death.Healing others exsisted back then too but it was even more lackluster than it is now. Despite that necro was one of the few professions that could full on fight while actually giving some healing to allies without having to invest in a specific weapon, elemental attunement (water for ele), or set of specific utilities.

Technically speaking it did all those things listed pretty well at the time they were likely written and published on the site. How ever the game has completely shifted from what it was back then and those same exact words cannot be applied to the current versions of necromancer we know today. Truth be told not much has changed on core necro. BUT alot has changed for alot of other professions allowing them to take over the few things necro was ok at and do them better while brining more to the table.

So to say necro couldn't/cant do those things is wrong.What you should really say is that other professions just do those things better because many mechanics that people have asked for on necormancer often end up on other professions while necro remained untouched.

@Game of Bones.8975 said:

@wrathmagik.3518 said:You really need to spell check.

My main stats on ascended gear are occums?? Anyway they are power+vitality+condition dmg

I mean i'm sure theres a difference i guess but I don't notice. Stuff still just melts when I use scourge so i'm happy :)

Pretty much convinced atm that Necromancers (Core/Reaper/Scourge) in Anets minds are envisioned to be the paper mache profession only able to produce results if supplemented with the adequate amount of support in order to keep them from falling over and turning into a glorified rally bot.

@Wizardauz.3761 said:Pretty much convinced atm that Necromancers (Core/Reaper/Scourge) in Anets minds are envisioned to be the paper mache profession only able to produce results if supplemented with the adequate amount of support in order to keep them from falling over and turning into a glorified rally bot.

Necromancer has several unique mechanisms that cause difficulties in balance such as shroud, corruptions, and large amounts of area denial. Maybe Arenanet decided to fiddle around with potentially OP mechanics on an interesting profession concept but this what fun is all about in product design.

Relax, Arenanet did not create Necromancer to troll you. If they did it to troll anyone, it was themselves.