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Daredevil vs Deadeye


King Nutella.4570

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This has been on my mind for quite some time. I like both pretty much equally but want to main one. I know the DPS numbers and I know both do good damage in PvE so DPS isn't an issue. That said, I haven't played since the recent patch and had four main questions.

1) Which requires more skill/is more difficult to play in PvP?

2) Which is more useful in more situations in PvP?

3) Which requires more skill/is more difficult to play in PvE?

4) Which is more useful in more situations in PvE?

Also, for those who play thieves, which do you personally prefer?

Thanks!

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1.) Depends on build. DE can be harder but can also be way easier.2.) Generally, Daredevil, but again, it depends on build and the synergy with your group.3.) Neither. DE is really the only spec taken for PvE/raids, though. Anything works for open world and both DE and DrD make thief as a whole pretty trivial into most trash mobs.4.) Deadeye, hands down.

I think both elite specs are uninspired and boring. Core.

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@DeceiverX.8361 said:1.) Depends on build. DE can be harder but can also be way easier.2.) Generally, Daredevil, but again, it depends on build and the synergy with your group.3.) Neither. DE is really the only spec taken for PvE/raids, though. Anything works for open world and both DE and DrD make thief as a whole pretty trivial into most trash mobs.4.) Deadeye, hands down.

I think both elite specs are uninspired and boring. Core.

What do you mean by uninspired? Also, I thought Daredevil was good for PvE?

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@King Nutella.4570 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:1.) Depends on build. DE can be harder but can also be way easier.2.) Generally, Daredevil, but again, it depends on build and the synergy with your group.3.) Neither. DE is really the only spec taken for PvE/raids, though. Anything works for open world and both DE and DrD make thief as a whole pretty trivial into most trash mobs.4.) Deadeye, hands down.

I think both elite specs are uninspired and boring. Core.

What do you mean by uninspired? Also, I thought Daredevil was good for PvE?

Daredevil is literally the old Acrobatics traitline prior to their rework of it and DE is just a glorified killshot warrior on thief + Shadow Arts. Neither spec really added anything new to the profession/expanded on existing playstyles nor did they not address any playstyle/synergy issues of core, and both have really made it impossible to buff or rework elements of the core spec due to some blatantly overtuned/overly-good options. They generally feel gimmicky and trivialize a lot of nuance and decision-making of playing the class. I think this is a consequence of the other professions just being made objectively stronger and harder to play against by their elite specs.

Daredevil was good in PvE but the most recent patches combined have made DE's damage so astronomically high that DrD and core can't even close to competing. For open-world, DE is just super safe with rifle's range/safety, damage, and mobility/kiting potential from core thief as well as nearly endless initiative.

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I personally prefer the 3rd dodge from Daredevil and the Malicious Stealth Attacks from Deadeye.

I don't like Rifle and I love Steal over Deadeye Mark.

In both PvP and PvE, Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability. Anything you can kill stuff faster is always the better pick because as Thief, offense is the best defense.

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As far as instanced PvE is concerned, Daredevil is better in Fractals on almost every boss, notable exceptions being CM Arkk and Amala, since it makes better use of the breakbar burst phases. Also trash is a thing in Fractals and DD deals with it better. The reverse is true for raids where Deadeye is better in most situations, but DD has an edge on bosses where it can abuse the unique stoles skills or if you need condi dmg (that is to say that if you want to play your thief as condi, then DD is the way to go, I haven't tested condi thief very much, since I don't like it so take this with a grain of salt).

Deadeye benchmarks way higher, but is far from being the better spec in every situation when you consider mechanics, boss phases and how your CDS line up along with the initiative management. My advice is to try each spec and deduce yourself which is better where and why, but I do think that they are close enough at the moment that you can safely main either in PvE.

Edit: Added the condi dmg disclaimer.

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@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:I personally prefer the 3rd dodge from Daredevil and the Malicious Stealth Attacks from Deadeye.

I don't like Rifle and I love Steal over Deadeye Mark.

In both PvP and PvE, Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability. Anything you can kill stuff faster is always the better pick because as Thief, offense is the best defense.

Hmm I'm a little iffy on that last point. Even though my damage output is significantly higher with deadeye for PvP, it really only seems ok for ganking. As a roaming class, shouldn't thieves focus on primarily decapping and +1 (which any thief spec can do)? Daredevil is just a lot faster it feels like.

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@ShadowAgent.6053 said:As far as instanced PvE is concerned, Daredevil is better in Fractals on almost every boss, notable exceptions being CM Arkk and Amala, since it makes better use of the breakbar burst phases. Also trash is a thing in Fractals and DD deals with it better. The reverse is true for raids where Deadeye is better in most situations, but DD has an edge on bosses where it can abuse the unique stoles skills or if you need condi dmg (that is to say that if you want to play your thief as condi, then DD is the way to go, I haven't tested condi thief very much, since I don't like it so take this with a grain of salt).

Deadeye benchmarks way higher, but is far from being the better spec in every situation when you consider mechanics, boss phases and how your CDS line up along with the initiative management. My advice is to try each spec and deduce yourself which is better where and why, but I do think that they are close enough at the moment that you can safely main either in PvE.

Edit: Added the condi dmg disclaimer.

Thanks for this well put comment. Though about my other questions: which do you think is harder to play? Also, which do you prefer and why? Just curious.

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Thanks for this well put comment. Though about my other questions: which do you think is harder to play? Also, which do you prefer and why? Just curious.

Hey,

Well difficulty wise in instanced content I'd say they are faily equal with regards to rotation (unless we are talking about Rifle DE, which is a lot more tricky to optimise in combat), but surviving on a DD is easier since you have more dodges and more build-in evades in staff than what you'd normally have with Deadeye. For example #5 has a dodge at the very start, which you can alternate with regular dodges on some fast hitting bosses for a minor dps loss compared to the normal rotation. In general getting the timing down is worth it, because if you are using Scholar Runes and the Critital Strikes line and your healer is a bit slow to top off the health, any hit in end game content will send you below 90% health and you'd lose dmg modifiers.

However I find Deadeye a lot stronger in a solo scenario in open world, since it has a lot of self buffs + range. (Trickery+Critical Strikes + Deadeye trait setup)

In PvP I've only ever played different Daredevil builds, since I like the fast pace +1 spike style, so I can't really say for DE, but I do know some people have gotten really far with it. Seems more like outliers, than the norm so I assume that Deadeye requires more work and dedication to play well at high rank levels. Note that this was before the latest changes so things might be different now. I can recommend you watch Sindrener on Youtube or Twitch for up-to-date PvP Thief related topics.

Daredevil is my personal favourite spec in the game, because in reminds of the DevilMayCry 3 trickster playstyle > lots of dodges and you'd want to avoid getting hit at all so you don't lose your dmg modifiers when you're above 90% health and I enjoy evasion based playstyles in general (that is why I also like condi Mirage). Playing rifle Deadeye also has its charm in open world, when you can kill every single veteran or lower mob from max range before it even gets close (would need full glass cannon gear for that tho), but yeah my personal preference is Daredevil.

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@King Nutella.4570 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:I personally prefer the 3rd dodge from Daredevil and the Malicious Stealth Attacks from Deadeye.

I don't like Rifle and I love Steal over Deadeye Mark.

In both PvP and PvE, Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability. Anything you can kill stuff faster is always the better pick because as Thief, offense is the best defense.

Hmm I'm a little iffy on that last point. Even though my damage output is significantly higher with deadeye for PvP, it really only seems ok for ganking. As a roaming class, shouldn't thieves focus on primarily decapping and +1 (which any thief spec can do)? Daredevil is just a lot faster it feels like.

Thieves have been decapping and +1 even before the Elite Specs. You can only move at a top speed of 33% with Swiftness (unless you have access to 50% superspeed) and the rest is done using utilities. Which means, Daredevil doesn't really change anything a whole lot in terms of mobility.

Mobility today is determined by how many teleports you have. Shortbow #5 is still the utility mainly for mobility. I would have agreed that Daredevil is a lot faster before they nerfed Unhindered, but now, that trait is not even worth it due to Exhaustion.

In my opinion, it's better for my Thief to stack up on damage (e.g. Malicious Backstab really hurts) and let my own skills handle my own survivability (e.g. positioning, perfectly timed evasion, etc).

EDIT for emphasis.

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@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Mobility today is determined by how many teleports you have. Shortbow #5 is still the utility mainly for mobility. I would have agreed that Daredevil is a lot faster before they nerfed Unhindered, but now, that trait is not even worth it due to Exhaustion.

UC only Exhausts if you are removing a condition using it, which doesn't happens 90% of the time you are roaming.

Also DeadEye mobility is indeed slower than other thief builds.S/D usually uses Acrobatics for Swiftnes and D/P uses UC.

DeadEye has terrible access to swiftness (has to mark something or waste utility). Keeping up stealth for 50% speed also isn't a bright idea, or you are wasting time reaplying stealth with D/P or you are wasting dodges that could save your life later.

So yes, DE is in a general way less mobile than Acro S/D and D/P Daredevil.

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@SoulSin.5682 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Mobility today is determined by how many teleports you have. Shortbow #5 is still the utility mainly for mobility. I would have agreed that Daredevil is a lot faster before they nerfed Unhindered, but now, that trait is not even worth it due to Exhaustion.

UC only Exhausts if you are removing a condition using it, which doesn't happens 90% of the time you are roaming.

Dash is detrimental in combat.

Also DeadEye mobility is indeed slower than other thief builds.

Deadeye's mobility is no different than Core's mobility. Without UC, Daredevil is in the same boat.

DeadEye has terrible access to swiftness (has to mark something or waste utility). Keeping up stealth for 50% speed also isn't a bright idea, or you are wasting time reaplying stealth with D/P or you are wasting dodges that could save your life later.

So yes, DE is in a general way less mobile than Acro S/D and D/P Daredevil.

They all have the same level of mobility. The only advantage of Daredevil is UC which already been nerfed. If you don't mind the exhaustion for the extra distance on dodge and being a liability, then that's your personal choice. It doesn't change the fact that UC is detrimental in combat.

In fact, it is better off to leave decapping to someone else with better access to teleports and focus on dealing massive damage during team fights.

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@ShadowAgent.6053 said:

Thanks for this well put comment. Though about my other questions: which do you think is harder to play? Also, which do you prefer and why? Just curious.

Hey,

Well difficulty wise in instanced content I'd say they are faily equal with regards to rotation (unless we are talking about Rifle DE, which is a lot more tricky to optimise in combat), but surviving on a DD is easier since you have more dodges and more build-in evades in staff than what you'd normally have with Deadeye. For example #5 has a dodge at the very start, which you can alternate with regular dodges on some fast hitting bosses for a minor dps loss compared to the normal rotation. In general getting the timing down is worth it, because if you are using Scholar Runes and the Critital Strikes line and your healer is a bit slow to top off the health, any hit in end game content will send you below 90% health and you'd lose dmg modifiers.

However I find Deadeye a lot stronger in a solo scenario in open world, since it has a lot of self buffs + range. (Trickery+Critical Strikes + Deadeye trait setup)

In PvP I've only ever played different Daredevil builds, since I like the fast pace +1 spike style, so I can't really say for DE, but I do know some people have gotten really far with it. Seems more like outliers, than the norm so I assume that Deadeye requires more work and dedication to play well at high rank levels. Note that this was before the latest changes so things might be different now. I can recommend you watch Sindrener on Youtube or Twitch for up-to-date PvP Thief related topics.

Daredevil is my personal favourite spec in the game, because in reminds of the DevilMayCry 3 trickster playstyle > lots of dodges and you'd want to avoid getting hit at all so you don't lose your dmg modifiers when you're above 90% health and I enjoy evasion based playstyles in general (that is why I also like condi Mirage). Playing rifle Deadeye also has its charm in open world, when you can kill every single veteran or lower mob from max range before it even gets close (would need full glass cannon gear for that tho), but yeah my personal preference is Daredevil.

Thanks!

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@King Nutella.4570 said:This has been on my mind for quite some time. I like both pretty much equally but want to main one. I know the DPS numbers and I know both do good damage in PvE so DPS isn't an issue. That said, I haven't played since the recent patch and had four main questions.

1) Which requires more skill/is more difficult to play in PvP?

2) Which is more useful in more situations in PvP?

3) Which requires more skill/is more difficult to play in PvE?

4) Which is more useful in more situations in PvE?

Also, for those who play thieves, which do you personally prefer?

Thanks!

PvP daredevil > deadeyePvE i dont know i doubt it matters which one u take, most of ur boons comes from ally anyway and u just swing swing 11111111111111111111111111

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1) Which requires more skill/is more difficult to play in PvP?

Neither, really. Both have a toolset which is so very similar, that one isn't more difficult to play than the other.In terms of Skill though, I'd personally say that D/P Daredevil simply has the most intricacy to it. It allows for a little more interesting plays and does the best job of being a Fast and Mobile decapper and creating the +1 situations that is the Thief's job for now.Deadeye has bad Swiftness uptime and many players/builds opt to play without a Shortbow, which also drastically decreases the Vertical Mobility.Granted, both Elite-Specializations can work, Daredevil is the overall better pick for PvP.

2) Which is more useful in more situations in PvP?

Answered along with question 1.

3) Which requires more skill/is more difficult to play in PvE?

Hard one to answer. Deadeye can abuse it's range, but Daredevil has plenty of dodges.I've been feeling like both have their niche uses and in open world PvE, it just comes down to preference in terms of playstyle. I personally play D/P DE for most of the open world content. The Blinds from 'Black Powder' (Pistol #5) along with the solid access to Quickness from DE's 'Be Quick or be Killed' grandmaster trait, makes the vast majority of the content a breeze (especially if you also play with 'Invigorating Precision' in the Critical Strikes traitline).Other than Open World... The kind of content faced within Fractals seems better suited for Daredevil (both D/D condi and Staff Power, mainly staff in my opinion). While in raids, you're definitely better off with D/D Power DE right now. The single-target damage that we can pump out right now is rather amazing and while it's rotation is just too easy, it's really the best option.

4) Which is more useful in more situations in PvE?

Essentially. DE has an easier rotation, but has less built-in defenses which could make it difficult. DD has a slightly harder rotation (still easy), but has more built-in defenses.I'd stick to the statement that both have their niche uses and if you want to be optimal, you'll just have to learn to run both.

Also, for those who play thieves, which do you personally prefer?

I've always loved the feel and flow of Core S/D thief (DA/TR/Acro) the most.Loved it from pre-HoT up until now and I'll continue to love it until they demolish it's fluidity.

That said, I really do play everything depending on what is needed or is best suited for the (niche) situation.

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@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:I personally prefer the 3rd dodge from Daredevil and the Malicious Stealth Attacks from Deadeye.

I don't like Rifle and I love Steal over Deadeye Mark.

In both PvP and PvE, Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability. Anything you can kill stuff faster is always the better pick because as Thief, offense is the best defense.

This is incorrect imo for pvp. Higher tier pvp meta is to use the dare devil d/p build and deadeye is basically a troll spec

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@Legatus.3608 said:

@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:I personally prefer the 3rd dodge from Daredevil and the Malicious Stealth Attacks from Deadeye.

I don't like Rifle and I love Steal over Deadeye Mark.

In both PvP and PvE, Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability. Anything you can kill stuff faster is always the better pick because as Thief, offense is the best defense.

This is incorrect imo for pvp. Higher tier pvp meta is to use the dare devil d/p build and deadeye is basically a troll spec

This was never about what is meta nor was I even talking about meta builds. It was a statement I made based on what everyone else can objectively observe the main difference between each Elite Spec.

1) It is without a doubt that Daredevil pack up a lot of punch and Daredevil has a lot of survivability.2) It is without a doubt that offense is the best defense for Thief. If a Thief drags the fight too long, they are forced to reset or run away.

Those two points are facts and I don't believe that I am incorrect.

Meta build is based on a lot of things mainly on team composition. Daredevil D/P doesn't fit nor even picked in a certain team composition or team goal. There are times that players switch to a different profession to compliment the team's composition or goal. So any meta-based discussion is really off topic.

It's actually funny that you mention about "troll spec" when the concept of a high mobility decapping strategy Daredevil D/P is a "troll spec". Think about it.

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@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:I personally prefer the 3rd dodge from Daredevil and the Malicious Stealth Attacks from Deadeye.

I don't like Rifle and I love Steal over Deadeye Mark.

In both PvP and PvE, Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability. Anything you can kill stuff faster is always the better pick because as Thief, offense is the best defense.

This is incorrect imo for pvp. Higher tier pvp meta is to use the dare devil d/p build and deadeye is basically a troll spec

This was never about what is meta nor was I even talking about meta builds. It was a statement I made based on what everyone else can objectively observe the main difference between each Elite Spec.

1) It is without a doubt that Daredevil pack up a lot of punch and Daredevil has a lot of survivability.2) It is without a doubt that offense is the best defense for Thief. If a Thief drags the fight too long, they are forced to reset or run away.

Those two points are facts and I don't believe that I am incorrect.

Meta build is based on a lot of things mainly on team composition. Daredevil D/P doesn't fit nor even picked in a certain team composition or team goal. There are times that players switch to a different profession to compliment the team's composition or goal. So any meta-based discussion is really off topic.

It's actually funny that you mention about "troll spec" when the concept of a high mobility decapping strategy Daredevil D/P is a "troll spec". Think about it.

There's nothing troll spec about dp at all, it's a decap and +1 spike build and it's very effective at top tiers of play.

Deadeye has been relegated to troll status since its creation and only has been questioned whether it's even viable in real pvp after the last round of balance changes. I've tried it out a bit myself and I'm not convinced. I still think it's only good at trolling and teams that actually want to beat it will do so easily. It isn't effective at decapping and while the damage is better than dp, it has counters that good players exploit and isn't reliable enough to get the job done.

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Deadeye is the most fun, trolly pvp build ever. You just save all your initiative for the backdash and just stealth and poke repeatedly with regular AA. If you let the stealth naturally fade, you can just harrass the ever living hell out of people and dodge to stealth whenever they try to go near. It quickly gets to the point where they start raging and doing stupid stuff like trying to chase you when you have a full set of initiative to shadowstep halfway across the map.

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@King Nutella.4570 said:This has been on my mind for quite some time. I like both pretty much equally but want to main one. I know the DPS numbers and I know both do good damage in PvE so DPS isn't an issue. That said, I haven't played since the recent patch and had four main questions.

1) Which requires more skill/is more difficult to play in PvP?

2) Which is more useful in more situations in PvP?

3) Which requires more skill/is more difficult to play in PvE?

4) Which is more useful in more situations in PvE?

Also, for those who play thieves, which do you personally prefer?

Thanks!

1: Really down to playstyle, build and context. I'm running a limited mobility glass canon DE rifle. It's hard to play. Does that make it require more skill/difficult to play? Sure. And using it in melee makes it harder. But what does that actually mean? Nothing. Thief, more so than many other classes, really depends on your playstyle and build - and of course, context is king.

2: See 1 and throw in a, ''...depends on team comp'' if applicable. And of course, context here also includes sPvP vs WvW.

3: See 1. Really tho, its PvE - how would you quantify 'skill' in this context? More buttons mashed a minute? Soloing x,y,z content? Farm rate?

4: See 1.

Outside of specific team comps in sPvP and setups in Raids, you can make a thief work. Is it 'skillful'? Compared to.. what? This is a video game - mash buttons, read tells, get a decent internet connection - win! Kidding aside, as you can read above, you're going to get a bunch of qualitative data when you're asking for/seemingly require quantitative data. The only way to answer your question is to play both across game modes. Yes it will take time and energy - it's research. Good luck!

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@Legatus.3608 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:I personally prefer the 3rd dodge from Daredevil and the Malicious Stealth Attacks from Deadeye.

I don't like Rifle and I love Steal over Deadeye Mark.

In both PvP and PvE, Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability. Anything you can kill stuff faster is always the better pick because as Thief, offense is the best defense.

This is incorrect imo for pvp. Higher tier pvp meta is to use the dare devil d/p build and deadeye is basically a troll spec

This was never about what is meta nor was I even talking about meta builds. It was a statement I made based on what everyone else can objectively observe the main difference between each Elite Spec.

1) It is without a doubt that Daredevil pack up a lot of punch and Daredevil has a lot of survivability.2) It is without a doubt that offense is the best defense for Thief. If a Thief drags the fight too long, they are forced to reset or run away.

Those two points are facts and I don't believe that I am incorrect.

Meta build is based on a lot of things mainly on team composition. Daredevil D/P doesn't fit nor even picked in a certain team composition or team goal. There are times that players switch to a different profession to compliment the team's composition or goal. So any meta-based discussion is really off topic.

It's actually funny that you mention about "troll spec" when the concept of a high mobility decapping strategy Daredevil D/P is a "troll spec". Think about it.

There's nothing troll spec about dp at all, it's a decap and +1 spike build and it's very effective at top tiers of play.

Deadeye has been relegated to troll status since its creation and only has been questioned whether it's even viable in real pvp after the last round of balance changes. I've tried it out a bit myself and I'm not convinced. I still think it's only good at trolling and teams that actually want to beat it will do so easily. It isn't effective at decapping and while the damage is better than dp, it has counters that good players exploit and isn't reliable enough to get the job done.

You see, that's the problem. You are trying to use an Elite Spec for decapping when it is not built for decapping. Decapping is trolling by the way. If your team composition can hold two nodes, your team don't need a decapping troll like Daredevil D/P. In fact, you don't even need a Thief at all.

As I've already explained. Meta discussion is more than just picking a build for your Thief. You have to build your Thief based on your team's composition and goal.

And since you already admitted that Deadeye's "damage is better than dp" Daredevil, I rest my case.

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@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:I personally prefer the 3rd dodge from Daredevil and the Malicious Stealth Attacks from Deadeye.

I don't like Rifle and I love Steal over Deadeye Mark.

In both PvP and PvE, Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability. Anything you can kill stuff faster is always the better pick because as Thief, offense is the best defense.

This is incorrect imo for pvp. Higher tier pvp meta is to use the dare devil d/p build and deadeye is basically a troll spec

This was never about what is meta nor was I even talking about meta builds. It was a statement I made based on what everyone else can objectively observe the main difference between each Elite Spec.

1) It is without a doubt that Daredevil pack up a lot of punch and Daredevil has a lot of survivability.2) It is without a doubt that offense is the best defense for Thief. If a Thief drags the fight too long, they are forced to reset or run away.

Those two points are facts and I don't believe that I am incorrect.

Meta build is based on a lot of things mainly on team composition. Daredevil D/P doesn't fit nor even picked in a certain team composition or team goal. There are times that players switch to a different profession to compliment the team's composition or goal. So any meta-based discussion is really off topic.

It's actually funny that you mention about "troll spec" when the concept of a high mobility decapping strategy Daredevil D/P is a "troll spec". Think about it.

There's nothing troll spec about dp at all, it's a decap and +1 spike build and it's very effective at top tiers of play.

Deadeye has been relegated to troll status since its creation and only has been questioned whether it's even viable in real pvp after the last round of balance changes. I've tried it out a bit myself and I'm not convinced. I still think it's only good at trolling and teams that actually want to beat it will do so easily. It isn't effective at decapping and while the damage is better than dp, it has counters that good players exploit and isn't reliable enough to get the job done.

You see, that's the problem. You are trying to use an Elite Spec for decapping when it is not built for decapping. Decapping is trolling by the way. If your team composition can hold two nodes, your team don't need a decapping troll like Daredevil D/P. In fact, you don't even need a Thief at all.

As I've already explained. Meta discussion is more than just picking a build for your Thief. You have to build your Thief based on your team's composition and goal.

And since you already admitted that Deadeye's "damage is better than dp" Daredevil, I rest my case.

Decapping is not trolling rofl. Its an important part of the game. If you don't understand the importance of decapping you don't understand conquest. Rotating is often the concept that separates bad players from good ones, and daredevil enables good rotation from its ability to decap and move faster than any other build. It's the reason they keep nerfing dp and the build stays meta anyways.

Deadeye on the other hand is only good against new people which is why its called a troll spec. One somebody has played against the two common deadeye specs they both become very easy to shut down.

You're trying to argue that deadeye is a better build in skilled pvp than daredevil and you're just factually incorrect.

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@Legatus.3608 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:I personally prefer the 3rd dodge from Daredevil and the Malicious Stealth Attacks from Deadeye.

I don't like Rifle and I love Steal over Deadeye Mark.

In both PvP and PvE, Deadeye is better than Daredevil since Deadeye adds to damage and Daredevil adds to survivability. Anything you can kill stuff faster is always the better pick because as Thief, offense is the best defense.

This is incorrect imo for pvp. Higher tier pvp meta is to use the dare devil d/p build and deadeye is basically a troll spec

This was never about what is meta nor was I even talking about meta builds. It was a statement I made based on what everyone else can objectively observe the main difference between each Elite Spec.

1) It is without a doubt that Daredevil pack up a lot of punch and Daredevil has a lot of survivability.2) It is without a doubt that offense is the best defense for Thief. If a Thief drags the fight too long, they are forced to reset or run away.

Those two points are facts and I don't believe that I am incorrect.

Meta build is based on a lot of things mainly on team composition. Daredevil D/P doesn't fit nor even picked in a certain team composition or team goal. There are times that players switch to a different profession to compliment the team's composition or goal. So any meta-based discussion is really off topic.

It's actually funny that you mention about "troll spec" when the concept of a high mobility decapping strategy Daredevil D/P is a "troll spec". Think about it.

There's nothing troll spec about dp at all, it's a decap and +1 spike build and it's very effective at top tiers of play.

Deadeye has been relegated to troll status since its creation and only has been questioned whether it's even viable in real pvp after the last round of balance changes. I've tried it out a bit myself and I'm not convinced. I still think it's only good at trolling and teams that actually want to beat it will do so easily. It isn't effective at decapping and while the damage is better than dp, it has counters that good players exploit and isn't reliable enough to get the job done.

You see, that's the problem. You are trying to use an Elite Spec for decapping when it is not built for decapping. Decapping is trolling by the way. If your team composition can hold two nodes, your team don't need a decapping troll like Daredevil D/P. In fact, you don't even need a Thief at all.

As I've already explained. Meta discussion is more than just picking a build for your Thief. You have to build your Thief based on your team's composition and goal.

And since you already admitted that Deadeye's "damage is better than dp" Daredevil, I rest my case.

Decapping is not trolling rofl. Its an important part of the game. If you don't understand the importance of decapping you don't understand conquest. Rotating is often the concept that separates bad players from good ones, and daredevil enables good rotation from its ability to decap and move faster than any other build. It's the reason they keep nerfing dp and the build stays meta anyways.

Deadeye on the other hand is only good against new people which is why its called a troll spec. One somebody has played against the two common deadeye specs they both become very easy to shut down.

You're trying to argue that deadeye is a better build in skilled pvp than daredevil and you're just factually incorrect.

I do pretty well with deadeye at the mid gold level. Not sure if this is considered noob or not though.

Btw, I'm not a rifle spammer.

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