A list on 'useless' Skills and Traits that could use some updating — Guild Wars 2 Forums

A list on 'useless' Skills and Traits that could use some updating

The V.8759The V.8759 Member ✭✭
edited July 24, 2018 in Professions

I thought it would be nice to make a long list of all the skills and traits that are basicly never used in the game. I think it's a shame that we have so many skills and traits in the game, but a portion of them is just useless, even for a niche.
Now I'm not knowledgable about every class, at least not in depth enough, so please post your listings and I will add them to the list. Please note that things that have a niche are not useless (Thumper Turret for blasting for example) and will not be added to the list.

Elementalist
Skills

  • Glyph of Restoration
  • Ice Spike
  • Shatterstone
  • Conjure Frost Bow
  • Signet of Air

Traits

  • Conjurer
  • One with Fire
  • Power Overwhelming
  • Elemental Shielding
  • Strength of Stone
  • Arcane Precision
  • Elemental Contingency
  • Elemental Surge
  • Latent Stamina
  • Tempestuous Aria
  • Lucis Singularity
  • Traits

Engineer (Includes Toolbelt skills)
Skills:

  • Elixir R
  • Throw Mine
  • Utility Goggles
  • Flame Turret
  • Net Turret
  • Rocket Turret
  • Shredder Gyro

Traits:

  • Expert Examination (?)
  • Orbital Command
  • Autodefense Bomb Dispenser

Guardian
Skills:

  • Signet of Courage
  • Light's Judgement
  • Hold the Line
  • Save yourselves
  • Mantra of Truth
  • Hallowed Ground

Traits:

  • Blinding Jeopardy
  • Perfect Inscriptions
  • Retaliatory Subconscious
  • Empowering Might
  • Battle Presence

Mesmer
Skills

  • Illusion of Life

Necromancer

Skills

  • Signet of Vampirism
  • Summon Bone Minions
  • Signet of Locust
  • Signet of Undeath
  • Spectral Wall
  • Well of Darkness
  • Lich Form
  • Serpent Siphon

Traits:

  • Feed from corruption
  • Spectral mastery
  • Fear of Death
  • Dhuumfire
  • Life from Death
  • Unholy Martyr
  • Flesh of the master
  • Putrid Defense
  • Soul comprehension
  • Death Nova
  • Unholy Sanctuary
  • Terrifying Descent
  • Terror
  • Spiteful Renewal

Ranger
Skills

  • Frost Trap
  • Muddy Terrain
  • Griffon Stance
  • Spirits (outside some group content)
  • Signet of the wild (active)
  • Porcine F2

Traits

  • Empathic bond
  • Shared Anguish
  • Natural Healing

Revenant

Thief
Skills:

  • Ice Drake Venom
  • Ambush
  • Tripwire

Traits:

  • Signet of Power
  • Sundering Shade
  • Shadow Protector
  • Guarded Initiation
  • Assassins Reward
  • Vigorous Recovery

Warrior
Skills:

  • Fear Me
  • Imminent Threat

Traits:

  • Brave Stride
  • Great Fortitude
  • Merciless Hammer
<1

Comments

  • The V.8759The V.8759 Member ✭✭

    I don't have enough time myself to complete the list at the moment, post your suggestions on what should be on there and I'll copy it in

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 19, 2018

    @The V.8759 said:
    I don't have enough time myself to complete the list at the moment, post your suggestions on what should be on there and I'll copy it in

    we use signet of mercy in gvg's
    just saying

    for warri id say right off the bat
    skills:
    fear me
    on my mark (not sure if its used in pve for insta vulnerabillity)
    imminent threat
    sight beyond sight

    traits:
    brave stride
    great fortitude
    merciless hammer

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 19, 2018

    your lock on trait for engi, half the holos in WvW run it and it is the most powerfull reveal ingame as it will only go on cooldown when it actually reveals and has 2 seperate cooldowns.
    for thief :
    traits :
    signets of power
    sundering shade
    shadow protector
    guarded initation
    assassins reward
    vigorous recovery

    skills:
    i personally think ice drake venom, skale venom, ambush and tripwire are of not worth a slot, yet i have seen them too much in use to put them on a list here.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 19, 2018

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    for warri id say right off the bat
    skills:
    on my mark (not sure if its used in pve for insta vulnerabillity)
    sight beyond sight

    many warriors switch in sight beyond sight and/or on my mark for me in WvW so guess there is a niche use for it.

  • The V.8759The V.8759 Member ✭✭

    List has been updated:

    • For warrior I added the suggestions, but kept in sight beyond sight and on my mark (See MUDse comment).
    • Signet of Mercy has been removed from the list
    • Lock on has been removed
    • Thief suggestions have been added. I kept out Skale Venom for venom share niches
  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Buff everything I use, Nerf everything that kills me. Perfect game achieved. :P

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ranger:
    Skills:
    Frost trap
    Muddy terrain
    Griffon stance
    Spirits outside group content
    Signet of the wild active

    Traits:
    Beastmastery upper row (just lackluster)
    Natural healing
    Poisonmaster (is used but is crappy)
    Empathic bond
    Shared anguish (judt because its the worst CC break trait)

  • Elementalist:

    • almost the entire earh trait line
    • some of the fire trait line (adept and master traits)
    • Cleansing water since its the most OP trait in ele that guide the way to build ele too much in pvp.
    • If you change cleansing water than change weaver grandmaster too.
    • Tempest trait line to give it more team support than just healing on auras and some weird might that doesn't even stack well.
  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    for warri id say right off the bat
    skills:
    on my mark (not sure if its used in pve for insta vulnerabillity)
    sight beyond sight

    many warriors switch in sight beyond sight and/or on my mark for me in WvW so guess there is a niche use for it.

    the question is, does it help them to kill you? if not at all, well then id say it still needs some tuning, keeping in mind that those skills are specifically made to somewhat counter stealth

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    for warri id say right off the bat
    skills:
    on my mark (not sure if its used in pve for insta vulnerabillity)
    sight beyond sight

    many warriors switch in sight beyond sight and/or on my mark for me in WvW so guess there is a niche use for it.

    the question is, does it help them to kill you? if not at all, well then id say it still needs some tuning, keeping in mind that those skills are specifically made to somewhat counter stealth

    well if i fight multiple opponents and one is a warrior then yes it does. if i fight only a warrior then no, i have to do other mistakes to die to a warrior, but that is more a slow warrior skill issue that you wont fix with those skills.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @The V.8759 said:
    Guardian
    Skills:

    • Sanctuary
    • Bane Signet
    • Signet of Wrath
    • Signet of Courage
    • Light's Judgement

    Traits:

    • Blinding Jeopardy
    • Perfect Inscriptions
    • Retaliatory Subconscious

    How is Bane Signet useless? It's been THE meta skill for anything PvE since this game launched and still is. Everything else has changed over the years but Bane Signet is and has always been in the Guardian skillbar every time you enter a raid, a fractal or a dungeon. It might be a bit boring but sometimes boring is good.

    Add "Hold the Line!" on the list. It used to be good but it has been left behind by the powercreep. You can also add Empowering Might and Battle Presence on the trait department.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2018

    Necromancer:
    Traits
    Spite:

    • Spiteful Renewal
    • Dread (Arguably)
    • Signets of Suffering

    Curses:

    • Terrifying Descent
    • Terror

    Death Magic:

    • Flesh of the Master(Under preforms can actually be a detriment in PvE)
    • Shrouded Removal (scourge only)
    • Putrid Defense
    • Soul Comprehension
    • Reaper's Protection (Could be useful if surrounded by better traits.)
    • Deadly Strength
    • Death Nova
    • Corrupter's Fervor
    • Unholy Sanctuary

    Blood Magic:

    • Life from Death (Especially on scourge)
    • Banshee's Wail
    • Unholy Martyr

    Soul reaping:

    • Spectral Mastery
    • Fear of Death
    • Dhuumfire (Scourge only in WvW and PvP)

    Scourge:

    • Feed from Corruption

    Shroud Skills

    • Dark Path
    • Life Transfer
    • Tainted Shackles

    Weapon Skills

    • Mark of Blood
    • Rending Claws
    • Unholy Feast

    Utility, heal and Elite Skills

    • Signet of Vampirism
    • Corrupt Boon (Arguable.)
    • Summon Bone Minions
    • Signet of the Locust
    • Signet of Undeath
    • Spectral Grasp
    • Spectral Wall (Under preforms)
    • Well of Darkness
    • Lich Form
    • Dessicate
    • Serpent Siphon

    I didn't mention all the skills and traits that under preform either. Otherwise it would be almost all of them. I don't feel anything on reaper is useless, but a lot I can see as under-preforming.

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Add Warrior's Body Blow to this list.

    Similarly to Merciless Hammer is is utterly useless because all the weapons that can take advantage of it are not Condition-based, but Power-based, so the extra inflicted Conditions are limp and impotent because you'd use them with Power stats.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • aceofbass.2163aceofbass.2163 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 21, 2018

    @The V.8759 said:
    I thought it would be nice to make a long list of all the skills and traits that are basicly never used in the game.
    Guardian
    Skills:

    • Sanctuary
    • Bane Signet
    • Signet of Wrath
      Traits:

    • Blinding Jeopardy

    • Perfect Inscriptions
    • Retaliatory Subconscious

    IMO sanctuary is a great point capture prevention in pvp and helps secure stomps/resses, to keep the annoying spectral flames away from boss in deepstone, and used when you need additional projectile hate uptime(i.e volcanic fractal boss).

    Bane and signet of wrath are both used in pve with DH power and FB condi builds respectively.

    Traits I agree.

    I would suggest the shouts; save yourselves, hold the line, retreat. Add in hallowed ground and mantra of truth.

    As for the elementalist, I always wanted to use it but I don't think it's worth it even for a support build - glyph of restoration. Almost the same goes for mesmer's illusion of life but I know one person who runs it in my server when zerging so I guess that counts? Lol >.>

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 21, 2018

    While I do think thief as a whole needs some work (unload needs a damage buff (it does less damage then most AAs while also limiting usability of your other weapon skills) and its ini cost lowered for sPvP / WvW, skills / traits like signet of malice / assassin's reward should scale significantly better with healing power and invigorating precision should also be affected by healing power), if there's one thing that needs a rework / improvement it's definitely the shortbow. No one ever uses it aside for "teleporting around". The ini costs are fine but most of the weapon skills are just bad. Take cluster bomb for example: it does barely any damage and requires you to jump into the enemy group to get any use out of it thanks to how detonate cluster works (which should honestly just be a second explosion right after the initial one).

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2018

    @Lily.1935 said:
    -SNIP-

    Half of these things are fine. I'll copy that, and leave the stuff that's actually about fine. Let's not waste dev time, if some of them happen to read it.

    • Signets of Suffering

    The trait is actually really good, it's just the Signets themselves that are A. underwhelming or B. conflicting in their purpose. The Plague Signet power-up may need to be changed though.

    • Reaper's Protection (Could be useful if surrounded by better traits.)

    Indeed. That's why it doesn't belong here.

    • Deadly Strength

    Is fine.

    • Corrupter's Fervor

    The best trait in DM. No business to be in this list.

    • Unholy Sanctuary

    Good but underwhelming for a Grandmaster. Belongs in the Master tier.

    • Banshee's Wail

    This is a great trait in OW if you run Blood. Permanent Swiftness.

    • Rending Claws

    Not great but does its job. Sets up bursts from the 2 skill.

    • Unholy Feast

    Great for PvP. Cleaves Mesmer clones nicely.

    • Corrupt Boon (Arguable.)

    Nothing wrong with the skill. Lacks an effective build and circumstance but that's not the skills fault.

    • Spectral Grasp

    Can be used successfully in PvP. Instant 75% LF when used right. Just pull mesmer clones and ranger pets to reset LF.

    • Well of Darkness

    Another Nightfall, and not even the weakest of Wells.

    • Dessicate

    Same thing as with Corrupt Boon.

  • Matt H.6142Matt H.6142 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2018

    @Lily.1935 said:

    • Dessicate
      Same thing as with Corrupt Boon.

    I find this melee skilldoesnt fit the kit. It’s radius is way too small or should be ground target. There’s no animation so no feedback to the player of its hits. Based on its name, it should have some of that vitality drain like is found on the Lich now.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Oh i forgot to mention:
    Porcine F2 in any mode, in pvp/wvw your enemies xan use the pick ups and its clunky in all moded, a mechanic change needs to happen.

  • Matt H.6142Matt H.6142 Member ✭✭✭

    Revenant - Ive never touched the heals on incoming damage, condi or physical. The staff orb, taunt/retaliation improvements don’t seem that impactful, and momentary pacification doesn’t fit some elites.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yannir.4132 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    -SNIP-

    Half of these things are fine. I'll copy that, and leave the stuff that's actually about fine. Let's not waste dev time, if some of them happen to read it.

    • Signets of Suffering

    The trait is actually really good, it's just the Signets themselves that are A. underwhelming or B. conflicting in their purpose. The Plague Signet power-up may need to be changed though.

    • Reaper's Protection (Could be useful if surrounded by better traits.)

    Indeed. That's why it doesn't belong here.

    • Deadly Strength

    Is fine.

    • Corrupter's Fervor

    The best trait in DM. No business to be in this list.

    • Unholy Sanctuary

    Good but underwhelming for a Grandmaster. Belongs in the Master tier.

    • Banshee's Wail

    This is a great trait in OW if you run Blood. Permanent Swiftness.

    • Rending Claws

    Not great but does its job. Sets up bursts from the 2 skill.

    • Unholy Feast

    Great for PvP. Cleaves Mesmer clones nicely.

    • Corrupt Boon (Arguable.)

    Nothing wrong with the skill. Lacks an effective build and circumstance but that's not the skills fault.

    • Spectral Grasp

    Can be used successfully in PvP. Instant 75% LF when used right. Just pull mesmer clones and ranger pets to reset LF.

    • Well of Darkness

    Another Nightfall, and not even the weakest of Wells.

    • Dessicate

    Same thing as with Corrupt Boon.

    Signet of suffering shouldn't exist. It doesn't have a purpose in the game aside from shotty patchwork for a broken mechanic. And not in a OP way broken. Shroud should not block off your utility skills. This is a major design flaw of the necromancer and having a trait that later patches up the short sighted design of the dev's doesn't make it good.

    Reaper's protection isn't surrounded by better traits within death or out of death. It makes it a gimmick at best and because it doesn't have the right support its not good. So I stand by my case here.

    Corrupted Fervor being the best trait in death is arguable. I think shrouded removal is the best trait in death. Corrupted Fervor doesn't do much for you. It's fairly weak and death on it's own doesn't give a whole lot of options to support it. You end up having to choose it over something like blood, curses or soul reaping which all offer a stronger option. Blood gives quite a bit of recovery, curses has weakening shroud and soul reaping hives more health along with more life force on top of foot in the grave which is a stunbreak. Maybe it could be good if death had stronger support for a bunker condi set up but it really doesn't.

    Deathly strength is bad. The necromancer forums have had this debate for years now. And the majority consensus is that it just underperforms. Every once in a while we get someone singing the praises of this trait but it's got a bad start conversation, in a bad specialization, with contradictory design around conditions and toughness with this odd outlier in the spec. It's very bad.

    Unholy Sanctuary has been labeled as one of the worst traits of them all. And you want to top that off it actually doesn't function hardly at all with scourge. It will fail on scourge if you don't have something like 16% life force to use. This trait is a trap. It suckers newbies into thinking its amazing when in truth it has proven to be more of a detriment than anything else. Even on reaper and core. Even if this was a master trait if I had only one minion I'd take Necromantic Corruption over it. Even if it was an adapt trait I'd take shrouded removal over it. Even if it was in another trait line as an adept I'd take something else. It is that bad.

    For banshee's wail I think I might have been a bit unfair with this one. Yeah it's not bad. My frustration is more with the warhorn skills themselves than the trait itself.

    Unholy fervor has been a part of the biggest regret I have in guild wars. I hate this skill. It might be personal bias since I used to like it. But they changed its function slightly and ruined its animation making it look like I'm paddling my enemy on my necromancer. And the skill doesn't perform that well either. I shouldn't have made frostfang. Underwhelming legendary with an underwhelming axe animation.

    Unholy feast is slow with an added effect that doesn't come up all that often.

    On a profession with tones of access to boom strip and corrupt, corrupt boon doesn't stand out. Not only that it's one of the more self damaging corruption skills.

    Hmm? Did I miss an update with this skill? But 75% sounds like a bug if that's true. But you also claimed dessicate did that, which it doesn't so you might be reading into it wrong.

    Well of darkness has a long cool down and is the weakest well. It's one moment to shine was a janky build using chilling darkness which was patched almost instantly.

    Dessicate gives 10% life force no matter what you do. It's a slow skill with a massive tell, low might stacks and short range. It is not a good skill by any stretch of the imagination.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Matt H.6142 said:
    Revenant - Ive never touched the heals on incoming damage, condi or physical. The staff orb, taunt/retaliation improvements don’t seem that impactful, and momentary pacification doesn’t fit some elites.

    you talking about the herold heal? just because you dont use it doesnt mean its never used, pretty much every single rev in wvw is using that one as main source of healing

  • The V.8759The V.8759 Member ✭✭

    Hiya! Sorry for a late update, but had a busy weekend!
    Anyway, the list has been updated accordingly. Some people's feedback was unusable if it would only focus on PvE or just be way too general (I can't do anything with "the whole earth line on Elementalist)

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    Guardian

    Shouts - Shouts need an overhaul completely for PVE in my opinion, as they aren't really that great no matter whats your role. But to be more precise:

    1. "Retreat"
    2. "Stand Your Ground"
    3. "Hold the Line"

    Mantras:
    1. Mantra of Truth

    Weapons - Shield:
    1. Shield of Absorption - Not really useless, but i think it could use some improvement

    Traits:
    1. Focus Master
    2. Communal Defenses
    3. Tenacious Defense
    4. Inner Fire
    5. Zealous Scepter
    6. Shattered Aegis
    7. Empowering Might
    8. Pure of Voice
    9. Retaliatory Subconscious

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yannir.4132 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    -SNIP-

    Half of these things are fine. I'll copy that, and leave the stuff that's actually about fine. Let's not waste dev time, if some of them happen to read it.

    • Signets of Suffering

    The trait is actually really good, it's just the Signets themselves that are A. underwhelming or B. conflicting in their purpose. The Plague Signet power-up may need to be changed though.

    Doesn't do enough and actually makes plague signet a self-destruction skill. It should have at least positive effect not negative.

    • Reaper's Protection (Could be useful if surrounded by better traits.)

    Indeed. That's why it doesn't belong here.

    • Deadly Strength

    Is fine.

    • Corrupter's Fervor

    The best trait in DM. No business to be in this list.

    Doesn't even have synergy with deadly strength.

    • Unholy Sanctuary

    Good but underwhelming for a Grandmaster. Belongs in the Master tier.

    Deathmagic as a whole is the most useless traitline in the whole game of any classes...

    • Banshee's Wail

    This is a great trait in OW if you run Blood. Permanent Swiftness.

    There are better ways for swiftness than this kitten trait. Not to mention that it just gets outclassed by vp

    • Rending Claws

    Not great but does its job. Sets up bursts from the 2 skill.

    Huge aftercast

    • Unholy Feast

    Great for PvP. Cleaves Mesmer clones nicely.

    Way to slow for the effect it does.

    • Corrupt Boon (Arguable.)

    Nothing wrong with the skill. Lacks an effective build and circumstance but that's not the skills fault.

    It's fine i guess, but only mentionable in gvgs

    • Spectral Grasp

    Can be used successfully in PvP. Instant 75% LF when used right. Just pull mesmer clones and ranger pets to reset LF.

    But shouldn't be outrunnable. As every class except necro has enough movement for that

    • Well of Darkness

    Another Nightfall, and not even the weakest of Wells.

    Well of darkness definetly is the weakest of the wells, that's why nobody plays it ever

    • Dessicate

    Same thing as with Corrupt Boon.

    Could use some spice

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    Signet of suffering shouldn't exist. It doesn't have a purpose in the game aside from shotty patchwork for a broken mechanic. And not in a OP way broken. Shroud should not block off your utility skills. This is a major design flaw of the necromancer and having a trait that later patches up the short sighted design of the dev's doesn't make it good.

    That's really not the topic of discussion here. And seriously, the assumption that Shroud shouldn't block off utilities is unrealistic.
    There could some day be an ESpec iteration of Shroud that doesn't do that but until that day, this is how Shroud works.(Not counting Desert Shroud here) End of story.

    Reaper's protection isn't surrounded by better traits within death or out of death. It makes it a gimmick at best and because it doesn't have the right support its not good. So I stand by my case here.

    I may have wanted to clarify that. This skill is a safety net, preventing noobs from getting instantly killed because of the first CC they encounter. I remember getting killed by chain-CCing band of ettins in Kessex Hills the first days of playing the game. Having a trait like this equipped might have saved my hide that time.
    It doesn't have a place in advanced gameplay but it has a place in the game.

    Corrupted Fervor being the best trait in death is arguable. I think shrouded removal is the best trait in death. Corrupted Fervor doesn't do much for you. It's fairly weak and death on it's own doesn't give a whole lot of options to support it. You end up having to choose it over something like blood, curses or soul reaping which all offer a stronger option. Blood gives quite a bit of recovery, curses has weakening shroud and soul reaping hives more health along with more life force on top of foot in the grave which is a stunbreak. Maybe it could be good if death had stronger support for a bunker condi set up but it really doesn't.

    I find that these 2 traits are the basis of what DM should be in addition to the Minion traits.

    Deathly strength is bad. The necromancer forums have had this debate for years now. And the majority consensus is that it just underperforms. Every once in a while we get someone singing the praises of this trait but it's got a bad start conversation, in a bad specialization, with contradictory design around conditions and toughness with this odd outlier in the spec. It's very bad.

    I'm not really reading any condition interactions in DM other than the 2 traits involving Poison. That's not really "designed around conditions" to me.
    What I'm really getting here is mostly because you(and others) find DM bad in general, that reflects to ALL of the traits, even the potentially good ones. When I think about a rehaul to DM, this trait could stay with a small buff. What DMs biggest problem is IMO is a lack of synergy.

    Unholy Sanctuary has been labeled as one of the worst traits of them all. And you want to top that off it actually doesn't function hardly at all with scourge. It will fail on scourge if you don't have something like 16% life force to use. This trait is a trap. It suckers newbies into thinking its amazing when in truth it has proven to be more of a detriment than anything else. Even on reaper and core. Even if this was a master trait if I had only one minion I'd take Necromantic Corruption over it. Even if it was an adapt trait I'd take shrouded removal over it. Even if it was in another trait line as an adept I'd take something else. It is that bad.

    I must have mixed this with Unholy Martyr. Carry on.

    For banshee's wail I think I might have been a bit unfair with this one. Yeah it's not bad. My frustration is more with the warhorn skills themselves than the trait itself.

    I suspected that. Although I'm still confused why, warhorn is great.

    Unholy fervor has been a part of the biggest regret I have in guild wars. I hate this skill. It might be personal bias since I used to like it. But they changed its function slightly and ruined its animation making it look like I'm paddling my enemy on my necromancer. And the skill doesn't perform that well either. I shouldn't have made frostfang. Underwhelming legendary with an underwhelming axe animation.

    So it's an animation issue rather than what it actually does?
    It's not a DPS weapon, so any issue related to that is not really an issue at all.

    Unholy feast is slow with an added effect that doesn't come up all that often.

    It's a shame they added that side effect because it distracts people. It's just a bonus.
    I've never found the slowness to be detrimental in using it, even in PvP. Works fine.

    On a profession with tones of access to boom strip and corrupt, corrupt boon doesn't stand out. Not only that it's one of the more self damaging corruption skills.

    Sure but that doesn't mean it's useless. It's an option for Core necro, or even Reaper as they don't have as good of an access to corrupts as Scourge does.

    Hmm? Did I miss an update with this skill? But 75% sounds like a bug if that's true. But you also claimed dessicate did that, which it doesn't so you might be reading into it wrong.

    Where did I claim Dessicate does that? I did assume that but I never implied as much.
    It's definitely not a bug, and yeah, you might have missed an update.
    It hits 5 targets now, and each target hit gives 15% LF.
    I should know, I use this skill all the time in PvP.

    Well of darkness has a long cool down and is the weakest well. It's one moment to shine was a janky build using chilling darkness which was patched almost instantly.

    35 seconds is a long cd to you? Maybe it could be 30 but that's as low as it could be pushed. The weakest well is most definitely Well of Suffering, it offers absolutely nothing unique or useful.

    Dessicate gives 10% life force no matter what you do. It's a slow skill with a massive tell, low might stacks and short range. It is not a good skill by any stretch of the imagination.

    I'll give you this one, as I've never really used it. Turns out what assumptions I had are incorrect.

    (I'm not quite done with this post but gotta leave work now, I'll edit it to readiness then.)

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Guardian

    Shouts - Shouts need an overhaul completely for PVE in my opinion, as they aren't really that great no matter whats your role. But to be more precise:

    1. "Retreat"
    2. "Stand Your Ground"
    3. "Hold the Line"

    Mantras:
    1. Mantra of Truth

    Weapons - Shield:
    1. Shield of Absorption - Not really useless, but i think it could use some improvement

    Traits:
    1. Focus Master
    2. Communal Defenses
    3. Tenacious Defense
    4. Inner Fire
    5. Zealous Scepter
    6. Shattered Aegis
    7. Empowering Might
    8. Pure of Voice
    9. Retaliatory Subconscious

    op asked for skills and traits that arent used in any gamemode and here you are asking for changes for pve stuff

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Guardian

    Shouts - Shouts need an overhaul completely for PVE in my opinion, as they aren't really that great no matter whats your role. But to be more precise:

    1. "Retreat"
    2. "Stand Your Ground"
    3. "Hold the Line"

    Mantras:
    1. Mantra of Truth

    Weapons - Shield:
    1. Shield of Absorption - Not really useless, but i think it could use some improvement

    Traits:
    1. Focus Master
    2. Communal Defenses
    3. Tenacious Defense
    4. Inner Fire
    5. Zealous Scepter
    6. Shattered Aegis
    7. Empowering Might
    8. Pure of Voice
    9. Retaliatory Subconscious

    op asked for skills and traits that arent used in any gamemode and here you are asking for changes for pve stuff

    My PVE comment was just about shouts... which isn't even third of my proposed objections

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Elementalist:
    Traits
    Fire traits:
    Conjurer (Conjures need a re-work)
    One with Fire (Terrible trait that gives might when you apply Auras)
    Power Overwhelming (sad that this condition damage trait is not taken over Pyromancer's Training)

    Earth traits need help to compete with the other trait lines, as a whole
    Elemental Shielding (Too situational, Aura application)
    Strength of Stone (One with Fire does more... and is useless)

    Arcane traits
    Arcane Precision (Only taken because it's the only extra dps option)
    Elemental Contingency (10 sec CD for 3 sec boon application based on your attunement, really useless)
    Elemental Surge (Probably has some niche use somewhere, if only Arcane skills were worth using)

    Tempest
    Latent Stamina (A trait that has been modified countless times, at the current state it's weak)
    Tempestuous Aria (Needs a "Shouts have reduced CD)
    Lucid Singularity (Needs some lingering effect)

    Skills
    Ice Spike (Really weak and slow)
    Shatterstone (Can we finally make this meme worth using?)
    Conjure Frost Bow (This weapon is all over the place, buffs healing and condition damage, but does power dps)
    Signet of Air (All movement signets feel rather useless now, I know players without PoF don't have mounts, but still doesn't feel good)

    I tried not to list skills and traits that are useful in some aspect of the game, WVW/PVP/PVE/Raids/Fractals and only list those that I think are universally useless.

  • The V.8759The V.8759 Member ✭✭

    Thank you for the elementalist list! They have been added to the list.

  • Ivantreil.3092Ivantreil.3092 Member ✭✭✭

    Considering the recent changes, i think is safe to say Pinpoint Distribution has touched bottom compared to what it used to be.

    Condi Engineer's won't take this trait anymore since now Thermal Vision is arguably a better condi trait when it comes to boosting Condi Engineer's numbers.

    But it must be useful for buff a condi oriented group rather than oneself right?

    Well, Snow Crows made tests, and they reached to the conclusion that the overall condi buff wasn't worth the dps loss in the Engineer, regardless of, if it was power or condi, the loss was big enough to declare Pinpoint Distribution as an unrealistic buff for Condi Benchmarks.

    Conclusion: Pinpoint Distribution is a useless trait now...

  • RUNICBLACK.7630RUNICBLACK.7630 Member ✭✭✭

    What about the Guardian Spirit Weapons, specifically
    The Sword of Justice
    The Hammer of Wisdom
    The Bow of Truth and
    The Shield of the Avenger
    While the sword is sometimes used there overall value is still pretty poor when viewed in comparison to other utilities. This particularly frustrating considering that they were quote, unquote fixed but still have issues with targeting etc and overall usefulness, which is obvious when look to see how rarely you see them in pretty much all of the different game modes. This is not to say that I don't think they can be fixed or improved without doing a complete redesign but that I'll put up in another post.
    Granted this is just my personal opinion but from observation in PvE, PvP, WvW, Fractals and Raids I almost never see a Guardian running with them and if I do it's generally the sword only so there you are .

    Life before Death
    Strength before Weakness
    Journey before Destination
    stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Immortal_Words

  • Could someone please explain to me why Engineer's Orbital Command is on the list? I'm currently constructing my 1st Engineer build and would like to know so I can understand it's weakness and look for viable alternatives.

  • The V.8759The V.8759 Member ✭✭

    @Chemistral.7318 said:
    Could someone please explain to me why Engineer's Orbital Command is on the list? I'm currently constructing my 1st Engineer build and would like to know so I can understand it's weakness and look for viable alternatives.

    It is the trait orbital commando, not the skill. Mine sweeper simply is always more damage than orbital command. For PvP, orbital command can be evaded so easily that it us useless

  • aceofbass.2163aceofbass.2163 Member ✭✭✭

    Oohh add in rampage, banner of defense, and banner of tactics under warrior.

    Also vote to swap elementalist-final shielding for zephyr's boon.

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2018

    Necromancer (just core).
    Spite
    Spiteful Renewal - An oddly placed trait. Move to Curses and it might see some use (or revamp Death and move it there).
    Dread - Two damage mid line traits, this one always comes out on bottom. Not enough fear to make use of.
    Curses
    Terror - Again suffering from Dread syndrome, not enough fear to make use of. Also fear too easily countered.
    Death Magic
    Oh boy. Instead I will list the traits that are either alright or good:
    Corruptor's Favor, Deadly Strength, Armoured Shroud.
    Blood Magic
    Blood Bond - needs a damage modifier vs bleeding foes. Otherwise it is just a meh trait that is only taken if you can't make use of the other two.
    Banshee's Wail - Badly placed trait like Spiteful Renewal. Should be moved to Death Magic, when DM gets a revamp.
    Soul Reaping
    Fear of Death - Needs to be rolled into Terror to make it worthwhile.

    Death Shroud
    Dark Path - epitomizes terrible old skills.
    Tainted Shackles - counter productive skill, torment then imob?

    Reaper's Touch - needs an update much like guardian focus 4 had (the old version being mechanically identical to it).
    Signet of Undeath - change the passive to +180 condi damage please.
    Spectral Wall - had niche use in eotm. Since the nerf, it goes mostly unused. Projectile block in place of the fear might just work.
    Well of Darkness - had niche use, in wvw, before they nerfed Chilling Darkness. Now mostly unused, despite many cooldown reductions. Proof of a bad skill.
    Lich Form - Saved the best til last. Despite a rework, still goes unused. Please just kill this skill and remake it into a usable NON-FORM power elite.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aceofbass.2163 said:
    Oohh add in rampage, banner of defense, and banner of tactics under warrior.

    Also vote to swap elementalist-final shielding for zephyr's boon.

    no, rampage is used in pvp, some use it in wvw roaming and i sometimes use it for breakbar breaking in pve

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @aceofbass.2163 said:
    Oohh add in rampage, banner of defense, and banner of tactics under warrior.

    Also vote to swap elementalist-final shielding for zephyr's boon.

    no, rampage is used in pvp, some use it in wvw roaming and i sometimes use it for breakbar breaking in pve

    Yeah, Rampage is extremely good for PvP, don't touch it.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Guardian

    Shouts - Shouts need an overhaul completely for PVE in my opinion, as they aren't really that great no matter whats your role. But to be more precise:

    1. "Retreat"
    2. "Stand Your Ground"
    3. "Hold the Line"

    Mantras:
    1. Mantra of Truth

    Weapons - Shield:
    1. Shield of Absorption - Not really useless, but i think it could use some improvement

    Traits:
    1. Focus Master
    2. Communal Defenses
    3. Tenacious Defense
    4. Inner Fire
    5. Zealous Scepter
    6. Shattered Aegis
    7. Empowering Might
    8. Pure of Voice
    9. Retaliatory Subconscious

    Those aren't necessarily bad, just generally not for PvE.

    "Stand your ground" is one of the backbones of WvW and should never be touched without good reason. If PvEers ever decide to coordinate stability and stop tanking things with chrono then this might see use.
    "Hold the line" has been run with core guardian up until other utilities were used.

    I also don't see anything wrong with "Inner Fire" when the alternatives don't apply for condi unless you run sword which is not condi.
    Empowering might is not much different usage-wise than warrior's phalanx strength with sigil of strength except the radius is smaller. It could use an increase in might duration though.
    Pure of Voice is a victim of power creep : it was run with trooper runes in WvW.


    What needs to be buffed is elementalist scepter auto , at least scepter 1 should burn in an area (130-180) even if the power damage is single target. It needs to do more damage than staff auto to be attractive due to lower range , and fire should cleave in PvE.

    Similarly elementalist focus 4 on water should do more in PvE. Chill is not amazing.

    Crystal hibernation , shield 5 on rev, is more or less unusable due to nerfs. There's a thread on this in the rev section. Should reflect projectiles , provide barrier, or something like that.

    Necro dagger should also be looked at. It's max 2 targets , requires bleeding transferred to the enemy to be effective, and close range so it should be greatly stronger than the ranged axe option. The necro dagger trait only increases movement speed whereas some other cases have some sort of damage modifier stacking.

    Mace mainhand on warrior I'd like to see more damage on mace 3 in PvE as it is single target. Not a huge priority.

    Engineer rifle 2 needs to do more in PvE so that core engineer can be competitive. It is a net, no reason it can't affect 3-5 targets in a 130-180 cleave radius.

    Ranger shortbow doesn't see much use and neither does axe : mainhand axe is sort of a hybrid weapon , maybe bleeding on auto should be added if a specific criteria is fulfilled (close range?).

    I feel there's a fixation on utility skills when weaponskills ought to be prioritized for changes (mainly for PvE).

    There's definitely skills that are weaker such as corrupt boon in PvE or "Fear me" in general but you can choose not to slot them.
    Likewise the first 2 minor traits for warrior in the Tactics line only apply to reviving.

    I'd also expect a lower cooldown in PvE for engineer's aim assisted rocket trait.

    Scourge utilities need some help in PvE when boons aren't around as pretty much every utility revolves around boons.

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yannir.4132 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @aceofbass.2163 said:
    Oohh add in rampage, banner of defense, and banner of tactics under warrior.

    Also vote to swap elementalist-final shielding for zephyr's boon.

    no, rampage is used in pvp, some use it in wvw roaming and i sometimes use it for breakbar breaking in pve

    Yeah, Rampage is extremely good for PvP, don't touch it.

    It is also just fun to mess about with because let’s face it: Banner is highly situational and Signet of Rage is such a dreadfully boring Elite.

    “Hulk smash!”

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Guardian

    Shouts - Shouts need an overhaul completely for PVE in my opinion, as they aren't really that great no matter whats your role. But to be more precise:

    1. "Retreat"
    2. "Stand Your Ground"
    3. "Hold the Line"

    Mantras:
    1. Mantra of Truth

    Weapons - Shield:
    1. Shield of Absorption - Not really useless, but i think it could use some improvement

    Traits:
    1. Focus Master
    2. Communal Defenses
    3. Tenacious Defense
    4. Inner Fire
    5. Zealous Scepter
    6. Shattered Aegis
    7. Empowering Might
    8. Pure of Voice
    9. Retaliatory Subconscious

    There's no such thing as a "PvE Overhaul". If you overhaul something, it happens in all modes. Unless it's just numbers changes, and that's not really an overhaul, is it?

    "Stand Your Ground!", Retaliatory Subconscious and Mantra of Truth most definitely don't belong on this list. MoT is ironically the best defensive utility skill Guardian has as long as you land it. "SYG!" admittedly has niche uses in PvE but personally I always slot it in Uncategorized Fractal for the climbing parts, for example. The retal is neat as well. That's good enough of a role IMO. Retaliatory Subconscious isn't a particularly powerful trait but it is good enough for the slot it is in, and often picked over Unscathed Contender in PvP.
    Also I don't believe Shattered Aegis or Pure of Voice deserve to be called useless. Sure they could use a little buffing because they just almost always lose to better options.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Shared anguish on ranger.
    Every other profession gets a decent skill activation, ranger gets a disabled pet.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Shared anguish on ranger.
    Every other profession gets a decent skill activation, ranger gets a disabled pet.

    arent pets mentally disabled anyways?

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 27, 2018

    @Yannir.4132 said:

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Guardian

    Shouts - Shouts need an overhaul completely for PVE in my opinion, as they aren't really that great no matter whats your role. But to be more precise:

    1. "Retreat"
    2. "Stand Your Ground"
    3. "Hold the Line"

    Mantras:
    1. Mantra of Truth

    Weapons - Shield:
    1. Shield of Absorption - Not really useless, but i think it could use some improvement

    Traits:
    1. Focus Master
    2. Communal Defenses
    3. Tenacious Defense
    4. Inner Fire
    5. Zealous Scepter
    6. Shattered Aegis
    7. Empowering Might
    8. Pure of Voice
    9. Retaliatory Subconscious

    There's no such thing as a "PvE Overhaul". If you overhaul something, it happens in all modes. Unless it's just numbers changes, and that's not really an overhaul, is it?

    "Stand Your Ground!", Retaliatory Subconscious and Mantra of Truth most definitely don't belong on this list. MoT is ironically the best defensive utility skill Guardian has as long as you land it. "SYG!" admittedly has niche uses in PvE but personally I always slot it in Uncategorized Fractal for the climbing parts, for example. The retal is neat as well. That's good enough of a role IMO. Retaliatory Subconscious isn't a particularly powerful trait but it is good enough for the slot it is in, and often picked over Unscathed Contender in PvP.
    Also I don't believe Shattered Aegis or Pure of Voice deserve to be called useless. Sure they could use a little buffing because they just almost always lose to better options.

    Sorry, but using a skill only to climb against wind and ground explosions jump in one fractal doesn't make this skill "not useless". Sure, you use it on one thing but that one thing has none to marginal importance for the game or effectiveness of the class.

    On topic of Shattered Aegis and Pure of Voice - You yourself have said that almost always other traits are picked over them. That's definition of useless. Nobody is using them because competitive traits are better and used almost always over these two.
    Being useless doesn't mean that trait/skill is weak or stupid, it just means that in comparative perspective other traits/skills are almost always preferred.

    I have yet to see a player that uses RS trait or MoT skill anywhere. But I admit I could be wrong on these two.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Shared anguish on ranger.
    Every other profession gets a decent skill activation, ranger gets a disabled pet.

    arent pets mentally disabled anyways?

    So you got my sneaky joke ;)

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @The V.8759 said:
    the list has been updated accordingly

    Not really, I'm still missing some skills which are in dire need of updating.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    I have yet to see a player that uses RS trait or MoT skill anywhere. But I admit I could be wrong on these two.

    RS was used in the old DH meta build in PvP. Some people still run it even if it's not meta anymore. And it's more useful than the other 2 traits in this line, if you do go Virtues and aren't planning on being a full glass cannon.
    I use MoT on my Firebrand in PvP when I don't need Mantra of Lore/Smite Conditions/CoP. You should see some monthly tournaments, most Firebrands run it when they don't need 2 condi clears on their bar. From my perspective, it's rather Mantra of Potence and Mantra of Flame that are useless. I still don't go around saying so because I never use them.(I play DH for PvE)

    Sorry, but using a skill only to climb against wind and ground explosions jump in one fractal doesn't make this skill "not useless". Sure, you use it on one thing but that one thing has none to marginal importance for the game or effectiveness of the class.

    You should read the whole thread instead of just my comment on it. I didn't want to bring up the WvW point of view which is the bigger point because A. other people already did that and B. WvW is not a game mode I play.

    On topic of Shattered Aegis and Pure of Voice - You yourself have said that almost always other traits are picked over them. That's definition of useless. Nobody is using them because competitive traits are better and used almost always over these two.
    Being useless doesn't mean that trait/skill is weak or stupid, it just means that in comparative perspective other traits/skills are almost always preferred.

    You see in the case of Shattered Aegis the biggest issue is that Zeal is almost never picked for PvP/WvW. It's clearly a burst damage trait which screams PvP but Zeal is a weak traitline for the gamemode. If the traitline somehow became viable(with the next ESpec maybe) Shattered Aegis would probably be the strongest GM pick.
    About PoV you may be right, it's clearly behind the times and I feel like I still wouldn't use it if the Shouts themselves got better.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Has any ele ever slotted soothing power? Blinding Ashes is also kinda useless if you ask me.

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Revenant:

    Traits:
    Replenishing Despair
    Bolstered Anguish. Has potential, but in practice not so much.
    Fierce Infusion
    Rapid Flow
    Ferocious Strikes. Some will disagree with me on this, but why put two competing power dps traits on the same line? Especially considering they overlap in their application.
    Momentary Pacification.
    Soothing Bastion.

    Healing orbs are a mistake. Please delete them ANet.

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭

    reserves a slot for her list

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks and streams at twitch.tv/ladykittygw2 .

  • all of those dumb traits that read "if x happens, heal for an abysmal amount (cooldown 5-10 seconds). I know rev has one or three of those , replenishing despair, rapid flow, and steadfast rejuvenation. Maybe if they are all taken they make a slight impact, but the opportunity cost for taking these are ridiculously and there is in no way these will help you survive.

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