sPvP Thread: Getting Away From Monk's Focus

This is a sPvP-only thread, please refrain from comparing, analyzing, or generally derailing the thread by commenting about WvW or PvE.This trait is the easiest choice, whether it be for core, DH, or FB. That's not because it's terribly overpowered, but simple because of the versatility of meditations combined with healing and the (otherwise rare) access to Fury. However, it doesn't have to be that way, it's simply that the other two GM traits are UP by comparison. Here is what I would change about them to make them competitive:

Altruistic Healing: Heal the ally who receives a boon, rather than always the Guardian. This would make it more appropriate for a support role, currently it's more about self-sustain.Tenacious Defense: Reduce VoC recharge time by 2 seconds rather than one. This trait is really nice but just doesn't cut it at the moment.

Bonus buff

Bow of Truth is very close to being viable. It can be taken over Merciful Intervention if you're confident in your ability to place it correctly and at the right time, and don't think you'll need the instant spot healing you get from MI. If 3s Regen was added to each impact of BoT, that would both improve its healing a bit and also allow it to synergize with Altruistic Healing.

These changes sound good. For none dps builds at least you get some alternatives.

An alternative change to Tenacious Defence could be to keep it at 1s, have no IC and make it so that any block will reduce VoC recharge. Aside from FB, guard doesn't actually have access to that much aegis overall (nothing in the game does, really).

@Arcaedus.7290 said:An alternative change to Tenacious Defence could be to keep it at 1s, have no IC and make it so that any block will reduce VoC recharge. Aside from FB, guard doesn't actually have access to that much aegis overall (nothing in the game does, really).

How would this help? I suppose if you use Shelter then you could get a massive amount of reduction from people attacking you while channeling it, outside of that I don't see how this would change anything.

@Huskyboy.1053 said:

@Arcaedus.7290 said:An alternative change to Tenacious Defence could be to keep it at 1s, have no IC and make it so that any block will reduce VoC recharge. Aside from FB, guard doesn't actually have access to that much aegis overall (nothing in the game does, really).

Guard has handful of skills that block but aren't aegis: Shelter, Shield of Courage (DH), Mace 3, Focus 5. You combine these with guard's aegis access and now TD actually makes a reasonable dent on f3 cool down.

Yeah, Tenacious Defense doesn't really make sense at its current iteration. They give us a way to lower F3 cooldown but then don't do it in a way that's actually useful in any way. I could see buffing this trait would be an indirect buff to the Symbolic DH build everyone has already forgotten about.

@"Yannir.4132" said:Yeah, Tenacious Defense doesn't really make sense at its current iteration. They give us a way to lower F3 cooldown but then don't do it in a way that's actually useful in any way. I could see buffing this trait would be an indirect buff to the Symbolic DH build everyone has already forgotten about.

It actually works alright for FB at the moment, there's lots of Aegis access atm, but not quite enough to edge out the other traits. I'll give you an example of Aegis from an extended node fight:

4 from Restoring Reprieve. Possibly 5 if I'm pressured and have to use the final charge.1 from Valorous Defense.2 from Protector's Strike.2 from Shield of Judgment.1 from Eternal Oasis converting burn, which happens basically every time since burn is ubiquitous. If I have the patience I'll sometimes use this skill twice.

Keep in mind that some of these skills will be used multiple times over the course of a fight, that's why for example Shield of Judgement gives me 2 Aegis overall.

If you add all of that up, I get 10-12 Aegis per extended node fight. According to Tenacious Defense's tooltip, it reduces recharge from all Aegis I grant, so theoretically I should be getting reduction from Aegis I give to allies. That's pretty good assuming I use F3 at the beginning of the fight, but it's just not good enough to justify taking it at the moment.

@Yannir.4132 said:Yeah, Tenacious Defense doesn't really make sense at its current iteration. They give us a way to lower F3 cooldown but then don't do it in a way that's actually useful in any way. I could see buffing this trait would be an indirect buff to the Symbolic DH build everyone has already forgotten about.

For dps builds I do not think any change to tenacious defense matters. Considering that everyone is running 3-5 mediation skills, you are giving-up significant healing. Even if tenacious defense cuts down VoC CD by half, outside of FB, it cannot compete with monks focus.

I think the issue is that no utilities outside mediation are useful in sPvP outside elite utilities. If we start to see shouts or concentrations as an alternative to mediations, then maybe monk focus will be dropped for other alternatives.

I'm confused by this thread.The Valor line is rubbish with no great minor or major traits in the entire line except Monk's Focus. Yet that single trait is the lynch-pin behind almost every sPVP build outside of support builds. Why boost the other GM traits (in the same line) to compete with it? It's the only reason people are going into the line to begin with. You're much better off boosting the GM's in competing lines to get people out of Valor. Like Otto said, Meditations work amazingly in sPVP and Monk's Focus is getting too big of a return to ever switch.

I would much rather Anet either:

1. Dissolve Monk's Focus and increase Guardian's natural defense/regen to keep them competitive.
2. Make Valor the dedicated sPVP line and give some interesting options to the minor and major slot to fill in the inherent weaknesses of core guardian.

Just move Monk's Focus into every Meditation and we free up Valor. Pipe dream but you have to dream big.

@"Indure.5410" said:I'm confused by this thread.The Valor line is rubbish with no great minor or major traits in the entire line except Monk's Focus. Yet that single trait is the lynch-pin behind almost every sPVP build outside of support builds. Why boost the other GM traits (in the same line) to compete with it? It's the only reason people are going into the line to begin with. You're much better off boosting the GM's in competing lines to get people out of Valor. Like Otto said, Meditations work amazingly in sPVP and Monk's Focus is getting too big of a return to ever switch.

I would much rather Anet either:

1. Dissolve Monk's Focus and increase Guardian's natural defense/regen to keep them competitive.
2. Make Valor the dedicated sPVP line and give some interesting options to the minor and major slot to fill in the inherent weaknesses of core guardian.

It's not trash. Stalwart Defender and Smiter's Boon are quite useful. In fact Smiter's Boon is pretty OP (because it synergizes with Monk's Focus), which is why it's taken even in builds that use Focus. How often do you see traits boosting each other into something so strong? Not often.

That being said, I do agree that Valor's minor traits are pretty garbage, the only one that's meaningful is Courageous Return, and even that is rarely triggered.

@Indure.5410 said:I'm confused by this thread.The Valor line is rubbish with no great minor or major traits in the entire line except Monk's Focus. Yet that single trait is the lynch-pin behind almost every sPVP build outside of support builds. Why boost the other GM traits (in the same line) to compete with it? It's the only reason people are going into the line to begin with. You're much better off boosting the GM's in competing lines to get people out of Valor. Like Otto said, Meditations work amazingly in sPVP and Monk's Focus is getting too big of a return to ever switch.

I would much rather Anet either:

1. Dissolve Monk's Focus and increase Guardian's natural defense/regen to keep them competitive.
2. Make Valor the dedicated sPVP line and give some interesting options to the minor and major slot to fill in the inherent weaknesses of core guardian.

To be fair, honor is defiantly the rubbish line. For valor, it is not only monk focus, you need smiter boon as well. Which no surprise, is tided back to monk focus. And ya; if you remove these 2 traits, valor will be unusable. Though, I would argue that the major master and minor master traits are good, but clearly no one is picking valor for only for them.

Gurdian dps builds are holding on sPvP viability by a thread. If mediations are nerfed, gurdian, except FB support, will be dead. And this has been an issue for gurdians since ever. Since pre HoT I was hoping that the elite lines could allow for none valor/mediation build. Kinda how mirage opened up none inspiration based builds for Mesmer.

Though, there are two skills that is the biggest culprit; litany of wrath and renwed focus. elite line heals have their niches, but if you are playing a melee dps build, you do not really have much options. And renwed focus is used in every single build. Elite mantra, after the nerf, can hardly compete in support builds. And considering both are mediations, what options are there?!

Honestly, if the shout heal is buffed from the stupid channel to something similar to ranger “we heal as one,” we could see honor/virtues/put whatever line builds other than meditation. Shouts can fill in the condi removal and support, while receive the light fill in the sustainability aspect. Making it like 3k personal and 2k aoe heal with 20 sec base CD, 0.75 cast time. Other shouts will need some slight buff (except stand your ground and feel my wrath).

@otto.5684 said:To be fair, honor is defiantly the rubbish line. For valor, it is not only monk focus, you need smiter boon as well. Which no surprise, is tided back to monk focus. And ya; if you remove these 2 traits, valor will be unusable. Though, I would argue that the major master and minor master traits are good, but clearly no one is picking valor for only for them.

To be fair, if Monk's Focus swapped places with any GM trait in the Honor line, Honor would actually be an arguable stronger line then Valor currently is for DPS builds. If it got Smiter's Boon as well it would be a great brawling line for sPVP guardians.

Back on subject, I think it sounds like a bizarre change, but I think it would be interesting if they split Monk's Focus into two parts. Putting the 20% cooldown/fury to a major trait (in the same line). And the 2k heal would stay a grandmaster but apply to all Utilities and Elites, barring spirit weapons and mantras due to cooldown problems (poor spirit weapons). You would still be stuck with Monk's Focus for anything PVP, but at least Guardian build diversity in terms of utilities could grow.