Is Anet treating Guild Wars 1 characters fairly? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Is Anet treating Guild Wars 1 characters fairly?

The Night Fox.6018The Night Fox.6018 Member ✭✭✭

Is Anet treating Guild Wars 1 characters fairly? 82 votes

Yes
36%
WhatLiesBeneath.9018Dante.1763Arden.7480Ayrilana.1396CETheLucid.3964Konig Des Todes.2086Vayne.8563Kalavier.1097Weindrasi.3805dusanyu.4057Ben K.6238Anna.7845Mikezaner.1524Narcemus.1348Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324xanfa.2584godofcows.2451Sir Deathwish.8935kenji ural.1782Lametoile.7394 30 votes
No
40%
particlepinata.9865Karmapolice.4193Torn Fierceslash.6375Randulf.7614JustChris.8139Ardid.7203Pax.3548maxwelgm.4315Felipe.1807Nick.6972Nogothanc.5014Vivaer.8360blackheartgary.8605Sir Vincent III.1286Sorem.9157Aerick Blackmoore.8167Gemnaid.4219Thornwolf.9721miriforst.1290nembool.5981 33 votes
Yes and No (described in comments)
23%
Fenom.9457Aaron Ansari.1604Musaroxy.2874Zaraki.5784LadyFearghus.3406DonArkanio.6419DanAlcedo.3281Daniel Handler.4816The Night Fox.6018foozlesprite.8051Overlord RainyDay.2084zerorogue.9410brenda.9723Edelweiss.4261Ruadan.9301Telwyn.1630Lavith.8930adormtil.1605kiri.1467 19 votes

Comments

  • The Night Fox.6018The Night Fox.6018 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2018
    Yes and No (described in comments)

    I hear a lot of complaint on the story of Joko, and I'm divided. But for characters such as Koss and Livia, I find their inclusion to be on the whole a net positive.

    --SPOILER--

    I was genuinely surprised at Livia's reveal. Though I knew there were plenty of open ended questions about her at the end of GW1, I had not expected that this particular shining blade npc to be her.

    Koss, though upset to see the buff bull-headed character I knew from GW1 to be awakened, I think a side visit and a quick boss fight was good for his stature in the original game. Not too demanding for the gw2 only players, but a quick nod.

    Tahlkora was a legit sad story... and I felt upset that she was treated so harshly by the writers, but I guess to make a villain you need to break a few eggs. I just remember how we left Joko humorously trying, and failing, to command mummies. The player character going so far as to say condescendingly that we wouldn't have to worry about him for awhile. Then BAM. Joko goes ham on Elona and mutilates Tahlkora infinitely. W/e

    I don't care too much about Lazarus. Never found him interesting because all he was, literally, had been a side quest.

    Ogden is cool. Mentions of others were alright like Vekk in Istan, in that book, yeah. The whole Glint thing is the main drive of our current gw2 story, and she was sort of a plan-it-all person who didnt like it when you touched her eggs in gw1. I guess that is okay because she had such a short part.

    Dunkoro felt stale. Then again his character in NightFall was stale. Though I imagine his impact could have been greatly improved by the accompaniment of any other hero, like General Morghan. That was a cool dude. Had what we call an "arching character development". Maybe had him and Dunkoro sitting on the desolation sands reminiscing about how much of a crazy harpy that Varesh was.

    Gwen's ghost in the raiding instance, disappearing and leaving her flower, having her music play, that was a masterpiece. Best nod to GW1 in this game yet and a legit tear-jerker. Really makes true that art can exist in some fashion in video games. Overall, I say it was appropriately tasteful.

    Grumby was great in the Fire Island Chain. Small part then small part now. And his dialogue associated with his hidden achievement tugs a little on the heart strings.

    Woooooooo... what else is there? I know I missed a ton, but that is probably because their reappearance never left an impact. Idk. Thoughts?

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes and No (described in comments)

    Seems alright to me, and I have very, very extensively researched GW1 lore, but I’ve only played it for a few hours so I haven’t actually played with many of the NPCs

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes

    Koss, talkhora, Ogden, Livia, i feel all got at least decent treatment some more sad than others, but even the sad ones it felt nice to know they werent exactly forgotten. Ogden has had the best treatment i think, Livia and koss next inline with Talkhora i feel got treated horribly(in so far as what happened to her) but well by the game devs for the whole story behind it. Dunkoro was just..bleh to see, much like he was in GW1.

    Almost forgot about Moxx, but having him brought back and basically given to the player was awesome!

    Hopefully we get to see more of the heroes we knew from GW1, brought back into the game in some memorable way too.

    Lazarus and joko..im unsure, Lazarus was a side quest and never a main villian so i think he was alright, same with Joko. Though i think Joko had the best and most hilarious death ive seen in this game so far. Lazaruses death was just..dull.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
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    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1763 said:
    Koss, talkhora, Ogden, Livia, i feel all got at least decent treatment some more sad than others, but even the sad ones it felt nice to know they werent exactly forgotten. Ogden has had the best treatment i think, Livia and koss next inline with Talkhora i feel got treated horribly(in so far as what happened to her) but well by the game devs for the whole story behind it. Dunkoro was just..bleh to see, much like he was in GW1.

    Almost forgot about Moxx, but having him brought back and basically given to the player was awesome!

    Hopefully we get to see more of the heroes we knew from GW1, brought back into the game in some memorable way too.

    Lazarus and joko..im unsure, Lazarus was a side quest and never a main villian so i think he was alright, same with Joko. Though i think Joko had the best and most hilarious death ive seen in this game so far. Lazaruses death was just..dull.

    I have to agree in terms of Joko and Lazarus. Joko has always been a side villain in Gw franchise, so I see it more then suitable on the amount of story we got from him. Lazarus was even worse honestly. He had a cameo in the bonus mission pack and one a small quest line that could be skipped. I keep hearing all the outrage about his character dying too soon. It seemed fair to me, given the state of the white mantle. I liked the conclusion to that Arc.

  • dusanyu.4057dusanyu.4057 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes

    To bre fair they have yet to touch a GW1 character yet i actually cared about. and to be fair Shiro got a nice treatment as a reinvent legend as Did King Iron hammer.

  • Torolan.5816Torolan.5816 Member ✭✭✭

    The whole story about Lazarus was BS. I could not even remember the details about him from GW1 beside his threat to humanity, so this whole affair left me with the impression of an old woman who clings to life just to kill a guy that is very far from reassembling himself and is at maximum a local power player even at full power compared to other villains in GW2. Not very heroic at all.

    I hated to see the former comrades of my character from GW1 degraded and humiliated this much. Of course it also makes sense from Joko to do something like that, so this is more of a personal disgust I have for characters like Joko than a full critique.

  • Overlord RainyDay.2084Overlord RainyDay.2084 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2018
    Yes and No (described in comments)

    I like seeing them again, but I don't want it to seem like we're going down the list checking off all the GW1 characters.

    The only one I'm a little annoyed about is Tahlkora. We did the legwork of rebuilding the Sunspears in mainland Elona, gathered all those griffon eggs, and even went into the mists to retrieve the sacred texts. The sunspears sure have a lot time since they didn't even follow Zaeim and the Istani sunspears to help us in Kourna, so couldn't somebody have found a chair for poor Tahlkora? Just prop her up a bit instead of just standing around disrespectfully while she's lying on the floor.

    Also I think the annoyance over Lazarus is more down to the handling of the Mursaat in general. When the exalted were first shown and everyone thought they were Mursaat for a while, people got excited. Would we finally get to see the fabled golden city of the Mursaat? Nope. It's just another unrelated race of spellcasters who coincidentally have wings, golden armor, and a golden city. Still it got people thinking about them, wondering what happened to them. The Mursaat had been built up to be so mysterious and then they just threw them away in the end without revealing what people actually wanted to know. Lazarus was brought back seemingly just to slam the door on all of it. There, the last Mursaat is dead, end of story, so stop asking about it.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Torolan.5816 said:
    The whole story about Lazarus was BS. I could not even remember the details about him from GW1 beside his threat to humanity, so this whole affair left me with the impression of an old woman who clings to life just to kill a guy that is very far from reassembling himself and is at maximum a local power player even at full power compared to other villains in GW2. Not very heroic at all.

    I hated to see the former comrades of my character from GW1 degraded and humiliated this much. Of course it also makes sense from Joko to do something like that, so this is more of a personal disgust I have for characters like Joko than a full critique.

    An obsession will do that you, especially if you have a longer life.

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2018
    Yes and No (described in comments)

    It really does vary- Gwen and Saul got great treatments, Balthazar and Livia, not so much- but if I were to make a general statement, it's that the worst treatments seem to come in the stretches where they try to fit a veritable bombardment of callbacks in, while the thin scattering between those periods tend to be handled better. ANet's had at least three periods where they include, or hint they're going to include, a panoply of old characters whose involvement winds up amounting to "Dropping in to say hi! Okay... bye!" I think that's what gets under people's skin the most, the inclusions that don't seem to be thought through, or feel like they're only included out of obligation without any clear idea of how that inclusion can be used in an interesting way. Double points when ANet takes action to hype us up and expect us to be excited about it regardless.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • Yes and No (described in comments)

    @zerorogue.9410 said:
    My biggest issue is for being ~250 years ago, there's a lot of people who are still around.
    Koss is an awakened.
    Dunkoro is a ghost.
    Tahlkora is laying around.
    Ogden is still living stone
    Gwen is a ghost.
    Anton is also a ghost.
    Livia is immortal.
    M.O.X. is in our home instance.

    I get you want to link the two games together, but if your going to do a time skip the least you can do is honor it and leave the characters in the past. Give us books, mementos, legends, stories. Don't just make them a ghost, undead, immortal.

    I mean, they do that for a lot of heroes. The whole memento/book thing.

  • zerorogue.9410zerorogue.9410 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes and No (described in comments)

    @The Night Fox.6018 said:
    I mean, they do that for a lot of heroes. The whole memento/book thing.

    I understand that. I want them to do tie ins for gw1. I just think they've also burned out on the whole "LOOK! ___ is back but now their (a ghost/undead/immortal/stone)!" Returning characters should have been a very special thing. Only a few where brought back and only when the story would be greatly improved for it.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CETheLucid.3964 said:

    @dusanyu.4057 said:
    To bre fair they have yet to touch a GW1 character yet i actually cared about. and to be fair Shiro got a nice treatment as a reinvent legend as Did King Iron hammer.

    Shiro's story is so tangled and tragic, not even the Mists know what to do with him.

    "So you murdered the emperor and fundamentally warped the landscape of the world... you were screwed with by a demon though, so eh... you can be a custodian."
    "SO... you abused your spiritual custodian powers and nearly destroyed the world again? Alright smart kitten, to the Realm of Torment with you!"
    "Sooooo... you ended up a dead god's general and got killed in the afterlife... kitten it guy... you're making this really difficult to deal with. I hear the mortals are playing around with summoning powerful figures in history. Go be their problem for a while I guess."

    Yeah, I’ll babysit Shiro and all his delicious dps power.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes

    I put yes, but was only thinking about the heroes rather than all characters. I felt the outcome of Devona, Tahlkora, Dunkoro, Koss, Aiden/Zho, and the Prophecies henchmen were all very proper.

    But the second I clicked vote I remembered the fate given to Turai, Balthazar, Joko, and Lazarus to which I'd say hell no.

    Balthazar, Joko and Lazarus are obvious enough. Frequent visitors will know my complaints about their treatment. But few people tend to look at Turai Ossa's fate and say "that's not right" simply because the rather massive retcon to his story is easily overlooked because both ends of it are rather hidden.

    In GW1, Turai Ossa's spirit was no longer bound to Tyria and the Crystal Desert once we ascended. He was able to move on to the Hall of Heroes, at long last.

    "Like you, I was one of the Chosen. But I passed from this world before I could rise to Ascension. The tests of Ascension can only be performed by mortals. But I can guide you through them, and when the way opens for you, it can also open for me."
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ghostly_Hero_(PvE)#In_The_Amnoon_Oasis

    Many of the Crystal Desert ghosts were only bound and waiting until that moment - when someone Ascends - too and should have moved on. Yet in GW2, Turai is sitting on his throne, waiting ever more still, and all the ghosts who said they'd finally be able to move on once someone Ascends are now in Augury Rock's basement...

    Now one can say "well, sure, just because they believed it would happen doesn't mean it would!" but we actually did once get confirmation that Turai moved on to the Hall of Heroes.

    Yet he still sits in that ruined throne...

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes

    @CETheLucid.3964 said:

    @dusanyu.4057 said:
    To bre fair they have yet to touch a GW1 character yet i actually cared about. and to be fair Shiro got a nice treatment as a reinvent legend as Did King Iron hammer.

    Shiro's story is so tangled and tragic, not even the Mists know what to do with him.

    "So you murdered the emperor and fundamentally warped the landscape of the world... you were screwed with by a demon though, so eh... you can be a custodian."
    "SO... you abused your spiritual custodian powers and nearly destroyed the world again? Alright smart kitten, to the Realm of Torment with you!"
    "Sooooo... you ended up a dead god's general and got killed in the afterlife... kitten it guy... you're making this really difficult to deal with. I hear the mortals are playing around with summoning powerful figures in history. Go be their problem for a while I guess."

    Technically it would be:

    "So you murdered the emperor and fundamentally warped the landscape of the continent. You'll spend your afterlife in some part (untold to players) of the Underworld. The Oracle of the Mists, however, wants you to repent your sins along with these other mass murderers in guiding the souls of the newly dead. Will you accept? No? Okay, keep roaming the Underworld."
    "Ah, you finally accepted the role of Envoy... only to abuse it and try to (and successfully) retain your mortality, only to be killed again while attempting to unleash another Jade Wind. This time, your influence from Abaddon is clear, so to the Realm of Torment."
    "So once imprisoned in the Realm of Torment you were quickly freed by Abaddon's forces. Where you served as a general... but at the same time it was proven that you were tricked into your crimes by Abaddon's agents. Not sure whether it's a shame or a good thing your spirit was destroyed and you don't exist anymore! BTW, revenants are now summoning your legend from the protomatter of the Mists. Good thing that's not you!"

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No

    @zerorogue.9410 said:
    My biggest issue is for being ~250 years ago, there's a lot of people who are still around.
    Koss is an awakened.
    Dunkoro is a ghost.
    Tahlkora is laying around.
    Ogden is still living stone
    Gwen is a ghost.
    Anton is also a ghost.
    Livia is immortal.
    M.O.X. is in our home instance.

    I get you want to link the two games together, but if your going to do a time skip the least you can do is honor it and leave the characters in the past. Give us books, mementos, legends, stories. Don't just make them a ghost, undead, immortal.

    I agree with most of this. Ogden is fine and Livia at least made sense within the story they made for her. Most of the rest felt a bit like forcing a way to get the character in.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Yes and No (described in comments)

    Jesus Konig. You really put a lot of effort to prove a point. Not to mention I see you everywhere.

  • Yes and No (described in comments)

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    • Norgu, Jurah, Jin, Sousuke, Zhed, Morgahn, and Razah's fates are still unstated, no ghosts/walking corpses met.

    Still unstated directly about him specifically, but I think we are led to believe that Zhed's bones are part of Joko's Bone Palace. It is stated that Joko drove the Veldrunner pride of centaurs (Zhed's pride) to extinction and added their bones to his palace.

  • Pax.3548Pax.3548 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    By mistake I choose no instead of yes, thats happens when you're reading while being tired xd

  • Weindrasi.3805Weindrasi.3805 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes

    Honestly, I have never had an issue with how GW1 characters are treated. I know the recent release with Joko is getting a lot of criticism, and yeah I would've loved to see more of him, but I also understand that Arenanet has time and resource restrictions. Joko was presented beautifully throughout the Path of Fire expansion and subsequent Living Story releases. I would rather have things as they are, where he met his end a bit too fast, then have the entire story of Guild Wars 2 get derailed to go after an old human-centric villain.

  • zerorogue.9410zerorogue.9410 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes and No (described in comments)

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    I don't think that 11 out of 50 henchmen/heroes being still active in some spiritual, undead, or immortal form is that bad of a number.

    From a story writing side, 11 is a horribly bad number. Ghosts need to be treated properly in the story to prevent them from getting stale. Going into gw2 I would have liked hero wise a max of 4-5 cameos. Of course the 3 immortal ones, (M.O.X. ,Razah, Ogden) and maybe one or two others if the plot ever reached a point that they would be needed to tie up a loose end from gw1. But 11 is just too many. I'm all for putting in as many references as you can pack in, but make them realistic to the 250 year time skip. Constantly bringing back characters from gw1 reduces the novelty in it. When I met Ogden in the core story I was ecstatic to see him again. When I met Koss in the previous story chapter, I was "Oh they reanimated Koss, neat, I guess..".

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would love to have more Joko, however it’s been stated that they need to reserve the rest of the Season to the main Villain which is likely the “purple menace”, as well as leading into the next expansion.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Out of all Prophecies, Eye of the North, and Nightfall henchmen and heroes, which accumulate to 50 figures:

    Thanks for posting such a thorough summary. :+1:

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Rognik.2579Rognik.2579 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    • Aiden and Zho are dead, no ghosts met, but their descendant (Noran) is met in Lake Doric.

    Only Aiden seems to be Noran's ancestor. Reading his dialog, he only mentions Zho as a great ranger, not that she was an ancestor.

    • Herta (NF henchman) was turned into an Exalted and we now carry her head.

    Do we know for certain that she's the same Herta?

    • Norgu, Jurah, Jin, Sousuke, Zhed, Morgahn, and Razah's fates are still unstated, no ghosts/walking corpses met.

    I've thought that Acolyte Sousuke became the first weaver. Even though Folarin's dialog spells his name as "Sosuke", I'd like to believe that's just a typo and they were meant to be the same character. I realize it's debatable, though.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes

    @Rognik.2579 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    • Aiden and Zho are dead, no ghosts met, but their descendant (Noran) is met in Lake Doric.

    Only Aiden seems to be Noran's ancestor. Reading his dialog, he only mentions Zho as a great ranger, not that she was an ancestor.

    He brings up Zho while talking about his family, and note how in Eye of the North Zho and Aiden are always with each other. He even has a pet Black Moa, which was Zho's signature pet.

    @Rognik.2579 said:

    • Herta (NF henchman) was turned into an Exalted and we now carry her head.

    Do we know for certain that she's the same Herta?

    We know it's a Herta from Elona, from the time period in which the Herta we knew was alive. It's never explicitly stated, but it's pretty heavily suggested.

    @Rognik.2579 said:

    • Norgu, Jurah, Jin, Sousuke, Zhed, Morgahn, and Razah's fates are still unstated, no ghosts/walking corpses met.

    I've thought that Acolyte Sousuke became the first weaver. Even though Folarin's dialog spells his name as "Sosuke", I'd like to believe that's just a typo and they were meant to be the same character. I realize it's debatable, though.

    Yes, he did, but that doesn't talk about his fate.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Castigator.3470Castigator.3470 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes

    Due to the difficulties of portraying the Hero, your player characters are alluded to in Divinity's Reach.
    However, you can still play the original Guild Wars, servers are running, although it's a lot more silent than it used to be.

  • Telwyn.1630Telwyn.1630 Member ✭✭
    Yes and No (described in comments)

    @Dante.1763 said:
    Koss, talkhora, Ogden, Livia, i feel all got at least decent treatment some more sad than others, but even the sad ones it felt nice to know they werent exactly forgotten. Ogden has had the best treatment i think, Livia and koss next inline with Talkhora i feel got treated horribly(in so far as what happened to her) but well by the game devs for the whole story behind it. Dunkoro was just..bleh to see, much like he was in GW1.

    Almost forgot about Moxx, but having him brought back and basically given to the player was awesome!

    Hopefully we get to see more of the heroes we knew from GW1, brought back into the game in some memorable way too.

    Lazarus and joko..im unsure, Lazarus was a side quest and never a main villian so i think he was alright, same with Joko. Though i think Joko had the best and most hilarious death ive seen in this game so far. Lazaruses death was just..dull.

    The hero of guild wars 1 who led them all has been forgotten however. Thanks to people, or accidents, or even natural disasters removing eve a trace of the first hero.

  • Sir Vincent III.1286Sir Vincent III.1286 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No

    I worked hard to fill my Hall of Monument the best I could to only find it in ruins. That is not a fair treatment of the hero character of GW1. That was the first indication to me that none of the GW1 hero characters would be treated fairly. I was right. All of the characters so far have had sad or tragic story. Meh.

    Thief F1 must remain an instacast Steal skill. DE will simply apply DE Mark on target on Steal.
    Malice build-up independently from DE Mark. Mark only speed up the build-up, not be the pre-requisite.
    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • Ultramex.1506Ultramex.1506 Member ✭✭✭

    Kormir is......useless with the explanation as to why she is useless...............................................................that's all i wanted to say, bye!

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
    I worked hard to fill my Hall of Monument the best I could to only find it in ruins. That is not a fair treatment of the hero character of GW1. That was the first indication to me that none of the GW1 hero characters would be treated fairly. I was right. All of the characters so far have had sad or tragic story. Meh.

    The Hall of Monuments was in the far north, where Jormag rose and took over. The hero of Gw1 lived 250 years ago, what details exist are vague for a reason.

    If they came out and said "Oh the Gw1 hero was a warrior from Ascalon." Anybody who started their main character in factions would be cheated. A necromancer nightfall main character would feel as if Anet was ignoring them or their stories.

    Honestly, what do you mean "All the characters have had a sad or tragic story."? Gwen founded Ebonhawke and from memory, died of old age. Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives and did good things. The only ones I can think of that ended up being "sad and tragic" would be the Ascalon trainer npcs who became ghosts with Adelbern, and some of the sunspear characters who died fighting Joko and were awakened.

    For the poll, I say yes. Overall Gw1 character references have been fitting to the old characters, and if they appeared, it was reasonable for them to do so, like the sunspear characters.

  • Sir Vincent III.1286Sir Vincent III.1286 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
    I worked hard to fill my Hall of Monument the best I could to only find it in ruins. That is not a fair treatment of the hero character of GW1. That was the first indication to me that none of the GW1 hero characters would be treated fairly. I was right. All of the characters so far have had sad or tragic story. Meh.

    The Hall of Monuments was in the far north, where Jormag rose and took over. The hero of Gw1 lived 250 years ago, what details exist are vague for a reason.

    That's a lame excuse. My GW2 account is linked to the GW1 account. They could have made the Hall an instanced where my GW1 achievements were preserved. Not only it would serve as a respect to your hard work in GW1, it would also incentivize new players to play GW1.

    If they came out and said "Oh the Gw1 hero was a warrior from Ascalon." Anybody who started their main character in factions would be cheated. A necromancer nightfall main character would feel as if Anet was ignoring them or their stories.

    Ever heard of instancing? Where they can tailor the narrative to match your character? What do you think happens in yous home instance where you join the Whispers instead of the Vigil?

    Honestly, what do you mean "All the characters have had a sad or tragic story."? Gwen founded Ebonhawke and from memory, died of old age. Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives and did good things. The only ones I can think of that ended up being "sad and tragic" would be the Ascalon trainer npcs who became ghosts with Adelbern, and some of the sunspear characters who died fighting Joko and were awakened.

    All sad and tragic story. Gwen's story is the saddest. Growing in captivity only to die while Ebonhawke is under siege.

    "Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives" -- really? Name five!

    For the poll, I say yes. Overall Gw1 character references have been fitting to the old characters, and if they appeared, it was reasonable for them to do so, like the sunspear characters.

    None of the GW1 heroes died in glory. They were not treated fairly.

    Thief F1 must remain an instacast Steal skill. DE will simply apply DE Mark on target on Steal.
    Malice build-up independently from DE Mark. Mark only speed up the build-up, not be the pre-requisite.
    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
    I worked hard to fill my Hall of Monument the best I could to only find it in ruins. That is not a fair treatment of the hero character of GW1. That was the first indication to me that none of the GW1 hero characters would be treated fairly. I was right. All of the characters so far have had sad or tragic story. Meh.

    The Hall of Monuments was in the far north, where Jormag rose and took over. The hero of Gw1 lived 250 years ago, what details exist are vague for a reason.

    That's a lame excuse. My GW2 account is linked to the GW1 account. They could have made the Hall an instanced where my GW1 achievements were preserved. Not only it would serve as a respect to your hard work in GW1, it would also incentivize new players to play GW1.

    Yes, an instance you can only use by playing GW1. (You can apparently get to it now without having played, which is new, but before you couldn't.) And making it tailor to every persons Gw1 account would be a massive amount of work.

    If they came out and said "Oh the Gw1 hero was a warrior from Ascalon." Anybody who started their main character in factions would be cheated. A necromancer nightfall main character would feel as if Anet was ignoring them or their stories.

    Ever heard of instancing? Where they can tailor the narrative to match your character? What do you think happens in yous home instance where you join the Whispers instead of the Vigil?

    See above. Factor in now you can be male/female from any of three origin points, with 10 class options. It's the same reason why people get shot down when they want living story to factor in all the player choices. Five races, 9 classes, three orders. This is also assuming that a singular structure with nobody living in it would be the same after 250 years.

    Honestly, what do you mean "All the characters have had a sad or tragic story."? Gwen founded Ebonhawke and from memory, died of old age. Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives and did good things. The only ones I can think of that ended up being "sad and tragic" would be the Ascalon trainer npcs who became ghosts with Adelbern, and some of the sunspear characters who died fighting Joko and were awakened.

    All sad and tragic story. Gwen's story is the saddest. Growing in captivity only to die while Ebonhawke is under siege.

    That doesn't explain anything.

    "Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives" -- really? Name five!

    Mhenlo, Cynn, Aiden, Zho, Sousuke, Melonni, Gwen, Keiran, MOX, Vekk, Stefan, Orion, Alesia, Reyna, Anton, Herta, Zinn, Oola, Livia, Salma, Yakkington, Nicholas the traveler, Kimmes, Devona, Frodak Steelstar.

    For the poll, I say yes. Overall Gw1 character references have been fitting to the old characters, and if they appeared, it was reasonable for them to do so, like the sunspear characters.

    None of the GW1 heroes died in glory. They were not treated fairly.

    Again.. how?

  • Rogue.4756Rogue.4756 Member ✭✭
    edited June 13, 2019
    Yes

    Their hayday has come and gone. Nothing more than a uninteresting memory.

  • Sir Vincent III.1286Sir Vincent III.1286 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
    I worked hard to fill my Hall of Monument the best I could to only find it in ruins. That is not a fair treatment of the hero character of GW1. That was the first indication to me that none of the GW1 hero characters would be treated fairly. I was right. All of the characters so far have had sad or tragic story. Meh.

    The Hall of Monuments was in the far north, where Jormag rose and took over. The hero of Gw1 lived 250 years ago, what details exist are vague for a reason.

    That's a lame excuse. My GW2 account is linked to the GW1 account. They could have made the Hall an instanced where my GW1 achievements were preserved. Not only it would serve as a respect to your hard work in GW1, it would also incentivize new players to play GW1.

    Yes, an instance you can only use by playing GW1. (You can apparently get to it now without having played, which is new, but before you couldn't.) And making it tailor to every persons Gw1 account would be a massive amount of work.

    They've done that already with the home instance. It would not be any different.

    If they came out and said "Oh the Gw1 hero was a warrior from Ascalon." Anybody who started their main character in factions would be cheated. A necromancer nightfall main character would feel as if Anet was ignoring them or their stories.

    Ever heard of instancing? Where they can tailor the narrative to match your character? What do you think happens in yous home instance where you join the Whispers instead of the Vigil?

    See above. Factor in now you can be male/female from any of three origin points, with 10 class options. It's the same reason why people get shot down when they want living story to factor in all the player choices. Five races, 9 classes, three orders. This is also assuming that a singular structure with nobody living in it would be the same after 250 years.

    The "factors' means nothing since the technology is already in the game. It was a design decision and that decision was unfair. It's really that simple.

    Even if nobody lives in the Hall, it should have been protected with some kind of magic. The Eye stood there way before the Vanguard made a base out of it and it should have stood even for another 1000 years or forever. The Scrying Pool is proof that there is magic there.

    Honestly, what do you mean "All the characters have had a sad or tragic story."? Gwen founded Ebonhawke and from memory, died of old age. Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives and did good things. The only ones I can think of that ended up being "sad and tragic" would be the Ascalon trainer npcs who became ghosts with Adelbern, and some of the sunspear characters who died fighting Joko and were awakened.

    All sad and tragic story. Gwen's story is the saddest. Growing in captivity only to die while Ebonhawke is under siege.

    That doesn't explain anything.

    You can disagree, it's totally fine.

    If you don't get it, then never mind. Just don't try to argue against something you cannot prove wrong.

    "Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives" -- really? Name five!

    Mhenlo, Cynn, Aiden, Zho, Sousuke, Melonni, Gwen, Keiran, MOX, Vekk, Stefan, Orion, Alesia, Reyna, Anton, Herta, Zinn, Oola, Livia, Salma, Yakkington, Nicholas the traveler, Kimmes, Devona, Frodak Steelstar.

    No proofs. That's just your speculation.

    For instance, there are no records of Mhenlo, Cynn and Devona even though they can be considered main characters besides the GW1 player character. Sure we see Jora's statue in Hoelbrak, but that's an exemption, however where are Mhenlo's, Cynn's, and Devona's statues?

    Even with Jora, no records can be found what happened after killing her brother. She was remembered for this act and that's it.

    For the poll, I say yes. Overall Gw1 character references have been fitting to the old characters, and if they appeared, it was reasonable for them to do so, like the sunspear characters.

    None of the GW1 heroes died in glory. They were not treated fairly.

    Again.. how?

    lol, how? Just look at Kos and Tahlkora and the zero records about the all of the heroes.

    Thief F1 must remain an instacast Steal skill. DE will simply apply DE Mark on target on Steal.
    Malice build-up independently from DE Mark. Mark only speed up the build-up, not be the pre-requisite.
    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • No

    No, GW2 is mostly a slap in the face to everything GW1/Character related.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
    I worked hard to fill my Hall of Monument the best I could to only find it in ruins. That is not a fair treatment of the hero character of GW1. That was the first indication to me that none of the GW1 hero characters would be treated fairly. I was right. All of the characters so far have had sad or tragic story. Meh.

    The Hall of Monuments was in the far north, where Jormag rose and took over. The hero of Gw1 lived 250 years ago, what details exist are vague for a reason.

    That's a lame excuse. My GW2 account is linked to the GW1 account. They could have made the Hall an instanced where my GW1 achievements were preserved. Not only it would serve as a respect to your hard work in GW1, it would also incentivize new players to play GW1.

    Yes, an instance you can only use by playing GW1. (You can apparently get to it now without having played, which is new, but before you couldn't.) And making it tailor to every persons Gw1 account would be a massive amount of work.

    They've done that already with the home instance. It would not be any different.

    If they came out and said "Oh the Gw1 hero was a warrior from Ascalon." Anybody who started their main character in factions would be cheated. A necromancer nightfall main character would feel as if Anet was ignoring them or their stories.

    Ever heard of instancing? Where they can tailor the narrative to match your character? What do you think happens in yous home instance where you join the Whispers instead of the Vigil?

    If I did the math right, it'd be at the bottom level, at least 60 different variants for the player char alone, not counting "Did X content/title" stuff (purely gender, start point, and profession). Then you run into the problem of "What character" As the link is to your entire GW1 account, not a specific character. Do you select what character you want it to show each time you go in?

    See above. Factor in now you can be male/female from any of three origin points, with 10 class options. It's the same reason why people get shot down when they want living story to factor in all the player choices. Five races, 9 classes, three orders. This is also assuming that a singular structure with nobody living in it would be the same after 250 years.

    The "factors' means nothing since the technology is already in the game. It was a design decision and that decision was unfair. It's really that simple.

    Even if nobody lives in the Hall, it should have been protected with some kind of magic. The Eye stood there way before the Vanguard made a base out of it and it should have stood even for another 1000 years or forever. The Scrying Pool is proof that there is magic there.

    Techincally the Eye still stands. It's merely abandoned.

    Honestly, what do you mean "All the characters have had a sad or tragic story."? Gwen founded Ebonhawke and from memory, died of old age. Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives and did good things. The only ones I can think of that ended up being "sad and tragic" would be the Ascalon trainer npcs who became ghosts with Adelbern, and some of the sunspear characters who died fighting Joko and were awakened.

    All sad and tragic story. Gwen's story is the saddest. Growing in captivity only to die while Ebonhawke is under siege.

    That says nothing. how is it tragic and sad? Gwen died in Ebonhawke, having founded and secured the city to last through 200+ years of siege. Her gravestone implies nothing tragic or sad about her death.

    "Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives" -- really? Name five!

    Mhenlo, Cynn, Aiden, Zho, Sousuke, Melonni, Gwen, Keiran, MOX, Vekk, Stefan, Orion, Alesia, Reyna, Anton, Herta, Zinn, Oola, Livia, Salma, Yakkington, Nicholas the traveler, Kimmes, Devona, Frodak Steelstar.

    No proofs. That's just your speculation.

    For instance, there are no records of Mhenlo, Cynn and Devona even though they can be considered main characters besides the GW1 player character. Sure we see Jora's statue in Hoelbrak, but that's an exemption, however where are Mhenlo's, Cynn's, and Devona's statues?

    Even with Jora, no records can be found what happened after killing her brother. She was remembered for this act and that's it.

    I said heroes/henchment/npcs were implied to live long lives/not tragic ones. You asked me to name five. I listed off well over five, of characters including ones we know have currently living descendants. Are you literally saying because there isn't giant statues and npcs/things gushing over them that the character lived a tragic and sad life?

    There is an important aspect called "Relevance to plot." We learn more about Koss, Lonai, Tahlkora and their admittedly tragic ends and undeath because it is RELEVANT. Mhenlo's life and death is not that relevant to the plot of the story of GW2, and most gw1 npc's fall into this grouping. Livia's appearance and the hunting down of Lazarus was called GW1 fan service/purely for "GW1 nostalgia" by some because it came from the side (even though we knew Livia was still alive and around) was while I personally say it wasn't terrible, it did kinda stretch that "relevant to the story and thus important to dive into."

    For the poll, I say yes. Overall Gw1 character references have been fitting to the old characters, and if they appeared, it was reasonable for them to do so, like the sunspear characters.

    None of the GW1 heroes died in glory. They were not treated fairly.

    What does "Died in glory" even mean? Explain. Are you saying that because a character didn't die in a huge crowning moment of awesome they aren't being treated fairly or had a sad or tragic ending? The idea of Gwen dying among family of old age is bad?

    Again.. how?

    lol, how? Just look at Kos and Tahlkora and the zero records about the all of the heroes.

    Relevance for one thing, and again, are you saying that "Because we aren't buried in records about these characters and actions." that they lived a sad and tragic life and had a sad and tragic end?

    I'm seriously curious about what you consider "Sad and tragic"

  • Sir Vincent III.1286Sir Vincent III.1286 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 14, 2019
    No

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
    I worked hard to fill my Hall of Monument the best I could to only find it in ruins. That is not a fair treatment of the hero character of GW1. That was the first indication to me that none of the GW1 hero characters would be treated fairly. I was right. All of the characters so far have had sad or tragic story. Meh.

    The Hall of Monuments was in the far north, where Jormag rose and took over. The hero of Gw1 lived 250 years ago, what details exist are vague for a reason.

    That's a lame excuse. My GW2 account is linked to the GW1 account. They could have made the Hall an instanced where my GW1 achievements were preserved. Not only it would serve as a respect to your hard work in GW1, it would also incentivize new players to play GW1.

    Yes, an instance you can only use by playing GW1. (You can apparently get to it now without having played, which is new, but before you couldn't.) And making it tailor to every persons Gw1 account would be a massive amount of work.

    They've done that already with the home instance. It would not be any different.

    If they came out and said "Oh the Gw1 hero was a warrior from Ascalon." Anybody who started their main character in factions would be cheated. A necromancer nightfall main character would feel as if Anet was ignoring them or their stories.

    Ever heard of instancing? Where they can tailor the narrative to match your character? What do you think happens in yous home instance where you join the Whispers instead of the Vigil?

    If I did the math right, it'd be at the bottom level, at least 60 different variants for the player char alone, not counting "Did X content/title" stuff (purely gender, start point, and profession). Then you run into the problem of "What character" As the link is to your entire GW1 account, not a specific character. Do you select what character you want it to show each time you go in?

    Sigh. They did all the Hall of Monument achievement so that every character you made will get the achievement reward. When you claim those rewards in game, it didn't really matter if your Charr character was claiming it. So you're just using your hypothetical variants just to make things look complicated than it actually is.

    See above. Factor in now you can be male/female from any of three origin points, with 10 class options. It's the same reason why people get shot down when they want living story to factor in all the player choices. Five races, 9 classes, three orders. This is also assuming that a singular structure with nobody living in it would be the same after 250 years.

    The "factors' means nothing since the technology is already in the game. It was a design decision and that decision was unfair. It's really that simple.

    Even if nobody lives in the Hall, it should have been protected with some kind of magic. The Eye stood there way before the Vanguard made a base out of it and it should have stood even for another 1000 years or forever. The Scrying Pool is proof that there is magic there.

    Techincally the Eye still stands. It's merely abandoned.

    Technically, it's not.

    Honestly, what do you mean "All the characters have had a sad or tragic story."? Gwen founded Ebonhawke and from memory, died of old age. Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives and did good things. The only ones I can think of that ended up being "sad and tragic" would be the Ascalon trainer npcs who became ghosts with Adelbern, and some of the sunspear characters who died fighting Joko and were awakened.

    All sad and tragic story. Gwen's story is the saddest. Growing in captivity only to die while Ebonhawke is under siege.

    That says nothing. how is it tragic and sad? Gwen died in Ebonhawke, having founded and secured the city to last through 200+ years of siege. Her gravestone implies nothing tragic or sad about her death.

    If you played through her story in GW1, you'll know that she hated the Charrs. Dying while under siege by them is a sad story. She's always their prisoner.

    "Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives" -- really? Name five!

    Mhenlo, Cynn, Aiden, Zho, Sousuke, Melonni, Gwen, Keiran, MOX, Vekk, Stefan, Orion, Alesia, Reyna, Anton, Herta, Zinn, Oola, Livia, Salma, Yakkington, Nicholas the traveler, Kimmes, Devona, Frodak Steelstar.

    No proofs. That's just your speculation.

    For instance, there are no records of Mhenlo, Cynn and Devona even though they can be considered main characters besides the GW1 player character. Sure we see Jora's statue in Hoelbrak, but that's an exemption, however where are Mhenlo's, Cynn's, and Devona's statues?

    Even with Jora, no records can be found what happened after killing her brother. She was remembered for this act and that's it.

    I said heroes/henchment/npcs were implied to live long lives/not tragic ones. You asked me to name five. I listed off well over five, of characters including ones we know have currently living descendants. Are you literally saying because there isn't giant statues and npcs/things gushing over them that the character lived a tragic and sad life?

    You listed name, but did not show proof where is was implied that they didn't lived a tragic life. On the contrary, there are plenty of evidence that shows that they did.

    There is an important aspect called "Relevance to plot." We learn more about Koss, Lonai, Tahlkora and their admittedly tragic ends and undeath because it is RELEVANT. Mhenlo's life and death is not that relevant to the plot of the story of GW2, and most gw1 npc's fall into this grouping. Livia's appearance and the hunting down of Lazarus was called GW1 fan service/purely for "GW1 nostalgia" by some because it came from the side (even though we knew Livia was still alive and around) was while I personally say it wasn't terrible, it did kinda stretch that "relevant to the story and thus important to dive into."

    How is Mhenlo not relevant? He could have explained why Monk is no longer a profession.

    For the poll, I say yes. Overall Gw1 character references have been fitting to the old characters, and if they appeared, it was reasonable for them to do so, like the sunspear characters.

    None of the GW1 heroes died in glory. They were not treated fairly.

    What does "Died in glory" even mean? Explain. Are you saying that because a character didn't die in a huge crowning moment of awesome they aren't being treated fairly or had a sad or tragic ending? The idea of Gwen dying among family of old age is bad?

    Dying in glory means not dying to something stupid.

    How did you even know that Gwen died among family of old age?

    If you look at her ghost, she's at the same age as we left her in GW1...meaning she might have died soon after giving birth to her first child. Compare that to the age of Eir's ghost and Dunkoro's ghost. Gwen died young.

    Again.. how?

    lol, how? Just look at Kos and Tahlkora and the zero records about the all of the heroes.

    Relevance for one thing, and again, are you saying that "Because we aren't buried in records about these characters and actions." that they lived a sad and tragic life and had a sad and tragic end?

    All these are heroes. Their stories are told for generations. The fact that their stories are not being told shows that they were not treated fairly.

    I'm seriously curious about what you consider "Sad and tragic"

    Sad because nobody remembers them. Tragic because some of them literally died tragically.

    Thief F1 must remain an instacast Steal skill. DE will simply apply DE Mark on target on Steal.
    Malice build-up independently from DE Mark. Mark only speed up the build-up, not be the pre-requisite.
    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • Telwyn.1630Telwyn.1630 Member ✭✭
    Yes and No (described in comments)

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
    I worked hard to fill my Hall of Monument the best I could to only find it in ruins. That is not a fair treatment of the hero character of GW1. That was the first indication to me that none of the GW1 hero characters would be treated fairly. I was right. All of the characters so far have had sad or tragic story. Meh.

    The Hall of Monuments was in the far north, where Jormag rose and took over. The hero of Gw1 lived 250 years ago, what details exist are vague for a reason.

    That's a lame excuse. My GW2 account is linked to the GW1 account. They could have made the Hall an instanced where my GW1 achievements were preserved. Not only it would serve as a respect to your hard work in GW1, it would also incentivize new players to play GW1.

    Yes, an instance you can only use by playing GW1. (You can apparently get to it now without having played, which is new, but before you couldn't.) And making it tailor to every persons Gw1 account would be a massive amount of work.

    They've done that already with the home instance. It would not be any different.

    If they came out and said "Oh the Gw1 hero was a warrior from Ascalon." Anybody who started their main character in factions would be cheated. A necromancer nightfall main character would feel as if Anet was ignoring them or their stories.

    Ever heard of instancing? Where they can tailor the narrative to match your character? What do you think happens in yous home instance where you join the Whispers instead of the Vigil?

    If I did the math right, it'd be at the bottom level, at least 60 different variants for the player char alone, not counting "Did X content/title" stuff (purely gender, start point, and profession). Then you run into the problem of "What character" As the link is to your entire GW1 account, not a specific character. Do you select what character you want it to show each time you go in?

    Sigh. They did all the Hall of Monument achievement so that every character you made will get the achievement reward. When you claim those rewards in game, it didn't really matter if your Charr character was claiming it. So you're just using your hypothetical variants just to make things look complicated than it actually is.

    See above. Factor in now you can be male/female from any of three origin points, with 10 class options. It's the same reason why people get shot down when they want living story to factor in all the player choices. Five races, 9 classes, three orders. This is also assuming that a singular structure with nobody living in it would be the same after 250 years.

    The "factors' means nothing since the technology is already in the game. It was a design decision and that decision was unfair. It's really that simple.

    Even if nobody lives in the Hall, it should have been protected with some kind of magic. The Eye stood there way before the Vanguard made a base out of it and it should have stood even for another 1000 years or forever. The Scrying Pool is proof that there is magic there.

    Techincally the Eye still stands. It's merely abandoned.

    Technically, it's not.

    Honestly, what do you mean "All the characters have had a sad or tragic story."? Gwen founded Ebonhawke and from memory, died of old age. Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives and did good things. The only ones I can think of that ended up being "sad and tragic" would be the Ascalon trainer npcs who became ghosts with Adelbern, and some of the sunspear characters who died fighting Joko and were awakened.

    All sad and tragic story. Gwen's story is the saddest. Growing in captivity only to die while Ebonhawke is under siege.

    That says nothing. how is it tragic and sad? Gwen died in Ebonhawke, having founded and secured the city to last through 200+ years of siege. Her gravestone implies nothing tragic or sad about her death.

    If you played through her story in GW1, you'll know that she hated the Charrs. Dying while under siege by them is a sad story. She's always their prisoner.

    "Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives" -- really? Name five!

    Mhenlo, Cynn, Aiden, Zho, Sousuke, Melonni, Gwen, Keiran, MOX, Vekk, Stefan, Orion, Alesia, Reyna, Anton, Herta, Zinn, Oola, Livia, Salma, Yakkington, Nicholas the traveler, Kimmes, Devona, Frodak Steelstar.

    No proofs. That's just your speculation.

    For instance, there are no records of Mhenlo, Cynn and Devona even though they can be considered main characters besides the GW1 player character. Sure we see Jora's statue in Hoelbrak, but that's an exemption, however where are Mhenlo's, Cynn's, and Devona's statues?

    Even with Jora, no records can be found what happened after killing her brother. She was remembered for this act and that's it.

    I said heroes/henchment/npcs were implied to live long lives/not tragic ones. You asked me to name five. I listed off well over five, of characters including ones we know have currently living descendants. Are you literally saying because there isn't giant statues and npcs/things gushing over them that the character lived a tragic and sad life?

    You listed name, but did not show proof where is was implied that they didn't lived a tragic life. On the contrary, there are plenty of evidence that shows that they did.

    There is an important aspect called "Relevance to plot." We learn more about Koss, Lonai, Tahlkora and their admittedly tragic ends and undeath because it is RELEVANT. Mhenlo's life and death is not that relevant to the plot of the story of GW2, and most gw1 npc's fall into this grouping. Livia's appearance and the hunting down of Lazarus was called GW1 fan service/purely for "GW1 nostalgia" by some because it came from the side (even though we knew Livia was still alive and around) was while I personally say it wasn't terrible, it did kinda stretch that "relevant to the story and thus important to dive into."

    How is Mhenlo not relevant? He could have explained why Monk is no longer a profession.

    For the poll, I say yes. Overall Gw1 character references have been fitting to the old characters, and if they appeared, it was reasonable for them to do so, like the sunspear characters.

    None of the GW1 heroes died in glory. They were not treated fairly.

    What does "Died in glory" even mean? Explain. Are you saying that because a character didn't die in a huge crowning moment of awesome they aren't being treated fairly or had a sad or tragic ending? The idea of Gwen dying among family of old age is bad?

    Dying in glory means not dying to something stupid.

    How did you even know that Gwen died among family of old age?

    If you look at her ghost, she's at the same age as we left her in GW1...meaning she might have died soon after giving birth to her first child. Compare that to the age of Eir's ghost and Dunkoro's ghost. Gwen died young.

    Again.. how?

    lol, how? Just look at Kos and Tahlkora and the zero records about the all of the heroes.

    Relevance for one thing, and again, are you saying that "Because we aren't buried in records about these characters and actions." that they lived a sad and tragic life and had a sad and tragic end?

    All these are heroes. Their stories are told for generations. The fact that their stories are not being told shows that they were not treated fairly.

    I'm seriously curious about what you consider "Sad and tragic"

    Sad because nobody remembers them. Tragic because some of them literally died tragically.

    And no one remebers the main hero characters of guild wars 1 in my story bad people among all races purposly erased any evidence a human saved the world the charr for example had the foolsih among them do that cause they do not want any future charr to know my character Tarwin's grandfather Matthew steel the hero of ascalon in guild wars 1 saved the charr race from both the shamans and the destroyers and gave the charr a real reason to want to fight for their freedoms which is why the female charr under Kalla end up fighting to gain the right to for their freedoms but to many male charr influenced by the flame legion erased any evidence of this just to make it look like the charr freed themselves without help so the charr do not trust any non charr aid.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
    Sigh. They did all the Hall of Monument achievement so that every character you made will get the achievement reward. When you claim those rewards in game, it didn't really matter if your Charr character was claiming it. So you're just using your hypothetical variants just to make things look complicated than it actually is.

    Stepping aside from this, I'll just say my final point is if you want the hall of monuments to actually be a thing in GW2 that showcases the GW1 hero, then it must showcase the hero. It doesn't matter who the GW2 character is.

    Even if nobody lives in the Hall, it should have been protected with some kind of magic. The Eye stood there way before the Vanguard made a base out of it and it should have stood even for another 1000 years or forever. The Scrying Pool is proof that there is magic there.

    Techincally the Eye still stands. It's merely abandoned.

    Technically, it's not.

    The Eye of the north is still standing, it's got a hole in the wall here or there and a partially collapsed floor but by all we can see, it's still overall intact.

    Honestly, what do you mean "All the characters have had a sad or tragic story."? Gwen founded Ebonhawke and from memory, died of old age. Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives and did good things. The only ones I can think of that ended up being "sad and tragic" would be the Ascalon trainer npcs who became ghosts with Adelbern, and some of the sunspear characters who died fighting Joko and were awakened.

    All sad and tragic story. Gwen's story is the saddest. Growing in captivity only to die while Ebonhawke is under siege.

    That says nothing. how is it tragic and sad? Gwen died in Ebonhawke, having founded and secured the city to last through 200+ years of siege. Her gravestone implies nothing tragic or sad about her death.

    If you played through her story in GW1, you'll know that she hated the Charrs. Dying while under siege by them is a sad story. She's always their prisoner.

    There is a huge difference between being in a cage, and standing within a fortress. A fortress that held for 200+ years with it only ever being breached by the branded.

    You listed name, but did not show proof where is was implied that they didn't lived a tragic life. On the contrary, there are plenty of evidence that shows that they did.

    The names I listed almost entirely link to characters we know explicitly had children and have living descendants in GW2. So now I'd ask you to provide the proof that those people lived tragic lives, or sad lives.

    There is an important aspect called "Relevance to plot." We learn more about Koss, Lonai, Tahlkora and their admittedly tragic ends and undeath because it is RELEVANT. Mhenlo's life and death is not that relevant to the plot of the story of GW2, and most gw1 npc's fall into this grouping. Livia's appearance and the hunting down of Lazarus was called GW1 fan service/purely for "GW1 nostalgia" by some because it came from the side (even though we knew Livia was still alive and around) was while I personally say it wasn't terrible, it did kinda stretch that "relevant to the story and thus important to dive into."

    How is Mhenlo not relevant? He could have explained why Monk is no longer a profession.

    Because the disappearance of monks as a combat profession doesn't actually mean anything to the plot of Gw2. It's an interesting question as to "why", but it means nothing story-wise. Mhenlo would also be long dead, and why would he personally be a factor in knowing why it's no longer as wide-spread among humanity?

    For the poll, I say yes. Overall Gw1 character references have been fitting to the old characters, and if they appeared, it was reasonable for them to do so, like the sunspear characters.

    None of the GW1 heroes died in glory. They were not treated fairly.

    What does "Died in glory" even mean? Explain. Are you saying that because a character didn't die in a huge crowning moment of awesome they aren't being treated fairly or had a sad or tragic ending? The idea of Gwen dying among family of old age is bad?

    Dying in glory means not dying to something stupid.

    Is old age stupid? You don't even know how most of the GW1 characters die so you cannot factually say they "died stupid deaths" or "They died sad/tragic deaths"

    How did you even know that Gwen died among family of old age?

    If you look at her ghost, she's at the same age as we left her in GW1...meaning she might have died soon after giving birth to her first child. Compare that to the age of Eir's ghost and Dunkoro's ghost. Gwen died young.

    We don't know that. She founded Ebonhawke ten years after the searing, and the foefire happened ten years after that. She was 30 when Abelbern and Ascalon City fell, and had children. We know she had one child at 1091, so she had at least one child at the age of 31, and we know she had another son. The son we know the name of lived from 1091 to 1106. His gravestone reads "I'll make you proud brother.", and he died at 15 years old. Sad yes, but hardly an overall picture of Gwen's life. Her other son lived to bear children of his own, leading to Logan Thackery of Gw2 day. We also know for a fact she did not have children before founding Ebonhawke. Therefore we can assume that she had her other son anytime between 1081 to after 1091. We also know that she earned the title "Goremonger" defending Ebonhawke from the Charr.

    I'd hardly call the leader who founded and helped build the last standing Ascalonion city a "tragic death" or a "sad life." considering the city she founded lasted under 200 years of constant assault and never fell. And the fact she literally became a horror story to the Charr, being well-known as "The Goremonger" among them even to the present day. And note, a mesmer is being called "Goremonger". She dealt out such gore to the charr that she became part of the Charr's culture, their enemy of the night to keep children behaved.

    Gwen did not die "prisoner" of the charr, she was never a prisoner of the Charr after she escaped them and joined the Ebon Vanguard. To think such of her is ignoring her life and legacy. Since she escaped the Charr, she fought them with her entire mind and body. She never gave up, never backed off. She created the literal last bastion of Ascalon, and ensured that Ascalon's legacy and blood would continue on for over 200 years. She struck horror and fear into the minds of the charr to the point that long after she died, they still fear her. Rytlock literally takes a single look at Gwen and immediately offers to go back to the base camp when Logan starts introducing the two.

    All these are heroes. Their stories are told for generations. The fact that their stories are not being told shows that they were not treated fairly.

    I'd like to point out that in real life, how often do you know the stories of the heroic soldiers in battles, in civilian life? "Fairly" or not, it's been 250 years since these individuals spotlight time. Times change, information gets lost and learned. You can find a scholar in DR who comments about the GW1 PC's life, having recently found some scrolls.

    I'm seriously curious about what you consider "Sad and tragic"

    Sad because nobody remembers them. Tragic because some of them literally died tragically.

    Some, yes. I can think of... three? Koss, Lonai, and Talhkora. Others? We don't know how they died and thus it's not wise to assume they died tragically.

  • Torn Fierceslash.6375Torn Fierceslash.6375 Member ✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019
    No

    We know a few where they died, grave stones for a few henchmen are in granite citadel (Alesia, Little Thom, Reyna). Anton died near the edge of the shiverpeaks and Kyrta Border (Snowblind Peaks).
    Devona ended up as Herald of Balthazar unwilling https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Herald_of_Balthazar,Stefan Became a ghost https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stefan_Baruch and Herta ended up as a talking head. I think i am missing a few more but i don't remember any more locations and/or fates of the others at the moment.

  • brenda.9723brenda.9723 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes and No (described in comments)

    Yes: mox, koss, talkhora, gwen, jora, devona, king adelbern, saul, ogden, Ventari

    very bad: the older races in general (mursaat, forgotten, seers), Lazarus, Joko, Balthazar

    meh: livia, GW1 hero

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes and No (described in comments)

    Recently I started to feel like GW2 used GW1 story just to keep IT all together.

    The characters who seemed very random in GW1 are now suddenly Super Saiyans for some unknown reason.

    As for Balthazar. I like how he acts in GW2. But I don't see a Balthazar. Devs made a huge mistake in order to achieve the "wow effect". They continue to build the story on that mistake. I don't want to rewarch Star Wars TLJ for the rest of GW2's existance. Balthazar had the possivility to be one of the greatest enemies we faced. That is because of personality. Elder Dragons have very limited personality traits. Balthazar, even though he was meant to be (spoiler) killed, could actually be a lot more memorable.
    Do you remember our last dialogue with Kralkatorrik? This is how Balthazar's persona could've gone. Nevermind. I just don't like how flat GW2 characters' personalities are due to the fact that Devs want to show so much stuff per episode so badly. It's like they can't wait for the story to tell itself but have to outright tell everything with a blast.
    GW1 characters suffer from it.

    The Hall of Monuments... I wish it was as full of life as we left it on GW1. Just a little.

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