Endurance/Vigor/Weakness Rework

I see alot of tears about dodge spam so I thought maybe with people stacking endurance gain/regen, it was time for a rework.

• Endurance regen capped at +50%
• all endurance regen traits and food, and endurance granting sigils and runes be converted to vigor boon instead.
• Dodging always removes cripple but cripple removal causes vigor to be lost.
• Gaining vigor removes weakness. Weakness removes vigor.
• Endurance gain traits and skills left as is with individual skill rebalance as found necessary.

Idk just my thoughts.

I wouldn't want that. With the insane power creep one shots in wvw, less dodges is more respawning for everyone.

since when are tears a reason to balance?the 2 main offenders according to the other thread are thief and mesmer, both classes that rely on active damage mitigation. this change would make investment into evades pointless so they would invest rather in a little mobility and especially into stealth, because that are their options. do you think with more stealth play instead of dodge there will be less tears? do other classes get their options of mitigating damage efficiently get nerfed as well?

1st response is a mesmer,2nd response is a thief.

Interesting.

I know this wont happen, but i like your idea

@Felipe.1807 said:I know this wont happen, but i like your idea

I suppose not. Adding complexity is not a very reasonable solution if the problem is not large enough to justify the work.

@Justine.6351 said:

@"Felipe.1807" said:I know this wont happen, but i like your idea

Especially if its not really the problem to begin with. Vigor and endurance regen is a tiny tiny part of the boon powercreep that throws them around like free candy. Just look at any "fight group" and they literally live by their permanent 10 boons. Or classes that can stack 25 might alone (all can do that).

This idea nerfs the active part of GW2 combat, something that defines the game, while ignoring the passive part of it that's pure powercreep.

I think boons are more of a problem, this food is more of a niche play and limited as most everyone else uses other foods so it is a lesser concern than the other things that are causing bigger problems.

Hard disagree that any of the stuff needs changing. I'm all for adding a bit more interaction outside of boon corruption/condi cleansing though. Just flavor wise I would very much enjoy these proposed changes.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@"Felipe.1807" said:I know this wont happen, but i like your idea

I wasn't suggesting it was the end all be all solution to anything, because that doesn't exist. Baby steps.

@Justine.6351 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@"Felipe.1807" said:I know this wont happen, but i like your idea

Baby steps in random directions while trying to spin around at the same time is just begging for a baby tumbling down some stairs.

The orginal idea could be condensed to the last part. Rework traits and skills. Thats where all the boons come from including the offending vigor.

I see some verbiage about dodging as active play. Let me explain something to those in question,

Endurance is designed to slowly regenerate into a capped pool. This is to encourage TIMED dodges to evade important attacks. There is nothing "active" about blanket dodging.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@"Felipe.1807" said:I know this wont happen, but i like your idea

Boons can be removed, food cannot. Counter play with boon removal is an active part of the game too.

Boons can be reapplied pretty much instantly though - maybe there should be an exhaustion system for it.

Remove dodge, problem solved.

@"XenesisII.1540" said:Remove dodge, problem solved.

Honestly it would be "easier" to just build active defenses into the classes themselves and balance around that. Instead we have a mechanic that is not evenly represented across the board.

@Justine.6351 said:1st response is a mesmer,2nd response is a thief.

Interesting.

whats more interesting is that you point this out as if my class played changes anything about what i posted.but you post about what class i play without a word regarding what i have posted to your topic,

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@"Felipe.1807" said:I know this wont happen, but i like your idea

Yeah "passive" endurance regen on top of more "passive" endurance regen along with some "active" endurance regen from energy sigils just to allow you to dodge near-constantly.

Active gameplay means you have meaningful cooldowns and actions. Being able to dodge repeatedly without being punished isn't "active" as much as being capable of chaining your defensives. And mesmer and thief both have huge uptime of that; without much "active" skill.

There isn't much difference between spamming out boons, conditions, damage or dodges. Energy sigils are still absolutely broken too.

@"Justine.6351" said:I see some verbiage about dodging as active play. Let me explain something to those in question,

Endurance is designed to slowly regenerate into a capped pool. This is to encourage TIMED dodges to evade important attacks. There is nothing "active" about blanket dodging.

That would be a good argument if it wasnt for the fact that hardhitting 25 might buffed attacks and condi vomitting at 100% duration is far more frequent than what any fully buffed dodger can actually dodge, with the sole exception of maybe a perma-evade staff dd.

@MUDse.7623 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:1st response is a mesmer,2nd response is a thief.

Interesting.

Ok...

1st poster is a condi mesmer complaining about power builds oneshotting. How do you get oneshot playing condi build? Idk.

2nd poster is a thief complaining about being pigeonholed into stealth and mobility if endurance gain/regen got nerfed. For that I will just link his play from another's point of view. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/48402/25k-from-stealth-in-an-instant-and-go-back-to-stealth-instantly/p1

Think that should clarify my post regarding you two.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:I see some verbiage about dodging as active play. Let me explain something to those in question,

Endurance is designed to slowly regenerate into a capped pool. This is to encourage TIMED dodges to evade important attacks. There is nothing "active" about blanket dodging.

Idk maybe utilize other defensive abilities and don't play a glass cannon?

@Justine.6351 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Justine.6351 said:I see some verbiage about dodging as active play. Let me explain something to those in question,

Endurance is designed to slowly regenerate into a capped pool. This is to encourage TIMED dodges to evade important attacks. There is nothing "active" about blanket dodging.

@Justine.6351 said:I see some verbiage about dodging as active play. Let me explain something to those in question,

Endurance is designed to slowly regenerate into a capped pool. This is to encourage TIMED dodges to evade important attacks. There is nothing "active" about blanket dodging.

But this thread is about suggestions for a possible solution of being able to dodge too much.There are other threads for the boon-problem and condi-issues.

Actually, the sign of lacking balance in wvw needs its own thread.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:I see some verbiage about dodging as active play. Let me explain something to those in question,

Endurance is designed to slowly regenerate into a capped pool. This is to encourage TIMED dodges to evade important attacks. There is nothing "active" about blanket dodging.

Would be relevant if most classes can't do both. Mirage spamming defensives while vomitting condies all over the place? Thieves spamming dodges while hard-hitting spike damage in between? Firebrands rolling around the place healing players while blocking, absorbing and outhealing anything that remains. Hell; my DPS staff weaver has what... 2 dodges, energy sigil for a third, 2x stance cantrip / dodge / superspeed / stunbreak, blink, an invuln, a dodge on weapon, by then another 2 dodges from recharge and p high vigor uptime ... :trollface: . But it's a goddamn pure DPS build which can literally evade for nearly 5 seconds straight without using mistform or blink...

@Justine.6351 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Justine.6351 said:1st response is a mesmer,2nd response is a thief.

Interesting.

Not all thievs are stealth campers. Playing core s/d is pretty much reliant on dodging and positioning (via mobilty/#2)

@Justine.6351 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Justine.6351 said:1st response is a mesmer,2nd response is a thief.

Interesting.

Wut? Great assumtion. When someone mentions 1 shots, its clearly because he gets one shotted. When someone complains about stealth, its clearly because he has trouble against stealth builds. Logic in here is tight.