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Why do you vote against duoq in plat 2 as silver player?


Nash.3974

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The recent poll just amazed me how many people who aren’t affected by anything voted against what the majority of the affected people want.To be more specific: it’s a fact that the majority of the plat 2+ players want duoq back. Then why do polls not always show this is a result?Because also people who aren’t affected by that get to vote and somehow most of them like to vote no.I‘m wondering about why do you vote for something you have no clue about/ you aren’t affected by?How did anyone think making a poll where everyone can vote even though they may have no knowledge about what really is best/good for a specific audience is solving a problem or is smart at all?What do you gain from voting no to duoq above plat 1 as a bronze/silver & even gold player?Explain please!!!

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I didn't get to platinum this season (just thief things), but I generally hate duos in my team because most of them are worse than two separate players.

@Nash.3974 said:To be more specific: it’s a fact that the majority of the plat 2+ players want duoq back. Then why do polls not always show this is a result?

And it's a fact exactly how?

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Same reason polls in WvW never worked. The vast majority of the game is casual players that barely know what they talk about, but have strong opinions on everything... They tend to vote like populists, in favor of whatever they think will give them most short-term gain to then blame anet / others when it obviously backfires.

You can't have proper feedback in a "democratic" fashion if the majority of the players don't grasp the game and aggresively vote / have opinions on everything. Every other week I get some PvE player telling me how PvP or WvW should be revamped "for casuals" and made "more fun". Yeah, I'm sure after half a week of playing you have great insight on what they should do with these modes.

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When I am active...I hover around plat 1. I voted that you could have duo q (or more) back....for any rating (yes even those above 1600).

I don't know why a silver or bronze would say no, but a gold 3 player might have some issue with it.

The mmr works and then it doesnt. Whenever I make the climb to p1, and I am there or at the top of gold 3...I have played matches against teams that had 2+ players in the 1600-1700.

Now, perhaps my team had them too...or maybe not. Two coordinated plat 2+s can absolutely destroy a team if the other team has none.

Here is an imaginary setup:

team 1: Plat 2, Plat 2, Gold 1, Plat 1, Gold 2 (assuming base rating for each rank the average is 1440)team 2: Gold 3, Gold 3, Gold 3, Gold 3, Gold 3 (assuming the base rating for each rank the average is 1400)

in theory, this match could take place (i would like to believe i have seen it)

which team is most likely (for real..for real) to win

the bolded plat 2's are in a duo together everyone else is solo....which team will win?

Now..I voted, Yes for it...because....idgaf

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@Nash.3974 said:The recent poll just amazed me how many people who aren’t affected by anything voted against what the majority of the affected people want.These polls mean exactly nothing, we have them almost every week, noone cares. We had one official vote but that was years ago you know.To be more specific: it’s a fact that the majority of the plat 2+ players want duoq back.Please explain how this is a 'fact' . Just because a few people keep posting this, it doesn't mean it's true.Then why do polls not always show this is a result?Because also people who aren’t affected by that get to vote and somehow most of them like to vote no.I‘m wondering about why do you vote for something you have no clue about/ you aren’t affected by?Aren't you following your own bias here?How did anyone think making a poll where everyone can vote even though they may have no knowledge about what really is best/good for a specific audience is solving a problem or is smart at all?What do you gain from voting no to duoq above plat 1 as a bronze/silver & even gold player?Let's disregard the fact that your whole post is based on your own views and ignorance. I will tell you something. There is no such a thing as 'gold player' etc. Tiers are not carved in stone. You can get better in the game and actually move up tiers (WOW!). My opinion is that there are far less lower tier players voting than you think. And at the same time (don't forget) they can also vote for the other option. Surprising isn't it?

We could have a vote for removing duoq altogether, so your question would be (even more) pointless, because that would affect everyone. Easy.

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@rank eleven monk.9502 said:(...)Let's disregard the fact that your whole post is based on your own views and ignorance. I will tell you something. There is no such a thing as 'gold player' etc. Tiers are not carved in stone. You can get better in the game and actually move up tiers (WOW!). (...)

I always feel like these suggestions come from players in gold so they can get carried by duoQ. :lol:

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@rank eleven monk.9502 said:Please explain how this is a 'fact' . Just because a few people keep posting this, it doesn't mean it's true.Let's disregard the fact that your whole post is based on your own views and ignorance. I will tell you something. There is no such a thing as 'gold player' etc. Tiers are not carved in stone. You can get better in the game and actually move up tiers (WOW!). My opinion is that there are far less lower tier players voting than you think. And at the same time (don't forget) they can also vote for the other option. Surprising isn't it?

We could have a vote for removing duoq altogether, so your question would be (even more) pointless, because that would affect everyone. Easy.

You don’t seem to have any knowledge about the higher rated playerbase.Of course division aren’t carved in stone but it doesn’t matter because at the moment when there is a poll, a silver player doesn’t know better and votes no.Now let’s say he improves a lot and gets to plat 1-2 only then does he realize how his vote hurted this SPECIFIC audience he’s now a part of. But now it’s too late, the damage is done.

Don’t be such a smarta*s because what you say is bs.It’s not only my personal opinion that duoq has to come back… In fact if you would ask every player who is AFFECTED by not being able to duoq they (at very least the majority) would say ‘yes' period.

If you‘re getting farmed by a duoq then instead of blaming them for being more skilled maybe try to improve your own skill lvl :)Also nothing stops you from duoqueing with someone.

I never had an issue with top players duoqueing together also not at misha sind duoq times.

If you think you know better then explain why most top players left the game and the few ones left think duoq has to return. And I mean top players like people who reach finals at monthlies and stuff.You apparently are a god of pvp if your opinion is right and theirs isn’t… smh

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"You do not agree with my point so your rank /skills /experience must be lower than mine!"

Geee....I wonder what the real reason for players being discouraged / leaving the game mode really is......I'm sure it is not the unkind, unforgiving, unfriendly, elitist community!You can blame the devs or the balance however you want it but I have seen games with more problematic balance having PvP going nicely because the community.

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Duo queue never works. No variable team formation has ever worked along any kind of rated game system in any game. Sooner or later the developers of a game realize that, until matchmaking is only full teams and/or full solo, and if they don't, it only becomes another factor that helps emptying the game.

One doesn't even need to be higher than bronze to know that, the same way one doesn't need to be an super bowl winner to know that concussions are bad for the players and for the long term survival of the game itself, and 'boring' rules to prevent them are very much needed.

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Y’all don’t get it.What makes you think you know better than the very best players in the game?Do you really think these players want duoq back so they can farm leaderboard or something? Why do you think would they want to get god of pvp even though they have it already? Sindrener mentioned a trillion times on stream that he doesn’t care about his rating or ranking.Yet these players want duoq back…You don’t understand that this leads to more and more top players leaving the game. In fact every season less and less good players play. This leads to pvp being less and less skillful and competitive. Nobody cares if you got r1 in these season not even because it could be wintrade but simply because there is no competition.Go on thinking like that and don’t you dare believe what top players have to say ( don’t worry I‘m not referring to me as top or best player, just referring to what sindrener and the likes think or atleast have said before )

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@Megametzler.5729 said:

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:(...)Let's disregard the fact that your whole post is based on your own views and ignorance. I will tell you something. There is no such a thing as 'gold player' etc. Tiers are not carved in stone. You can get better in the game and actually move up tiers (WOW!). (...)

I always feel like these suggestions come from players in gold so they can get carried by duoQ. :lol:Exactly how I feel :)

@Nash.3974 said:The recent poll just amazed me how many people who aren’t affected by anything voted against what the majority of the affected people want.These polls mean exactly nothing, we have them almost every week, noone cares. We had one official vote but that was years ago you know.To be more specific: it’s a fact that the majority of the plat 2+ players want duoq back.Please explain how this is a 'fact' . Just because a few people keep posting this, it doesn't mean it's true.Then why do polls not always show this is a result?Because also people who aren’t affected by that get to vote and somehow most of them like to vote no.I‘m wondering about why do you vote for something you have no clue about/ you aren’t affected by?Aren't you following your own bias here?How did anyone think making a poll where everyone can vote even though they may have no knowledge about what really is best/good for a specific audience is solving a problem or is smart at all?What do you gain from voting no to duoq above plat 1 as a bronze/silver & even gold player?Let's disregard the fact that your whole post is based on your own views and ignorance. I will tell you something. There is no such a thing as 'gold player' etc. Tiers are not carved in stone. You can get better in the game and actually move up tiers (WOW!). My opinion is that there are far less lower tier players voting than you think. And at the same time (don't forget) they can also vote for the other option. Surprising isn't it?

We could have a vote for removing duoq altogether, so your question would be (even more) pointless, because that would affect everyone. Easy.

You don’t seem to have any knowledge about the higher rated playerbase.:D You are implying you do know the personal opinion of everyone, or the majority above 1600 rating. I estimate that playerbase around 700-800-ish considering both realms, prolly more. Care to show your statistics about these 800 people?Of course division aren’t carved in stone but it doesn’t matter because at the moment there is a poll a silver player doesn’t know better and votes no.Now let’s say he improves a lot and gets to plat 1-2 only then does he realize how his vote hurted this SPECIFIC audience he’s now a part of. But now it’s too late, the damage is done.Don’t be such a smarta*s because what you say is bs.It’s not only my personal opinion that duoq has to come back… In fact if you would ask every player who is AFFECTED by not being able to duoq they (at very least the majority) would say ‘yes' period.Again, you are considering your own bias as a fact. Just because you write 'period' at the end it does not make it true lmaoIf you‘re getting farmed by a duoq then instead of blaming them for being more skilled maybe try to improve your own skill lvl :)Even your basic logic fails here. You can't make up to the skill and coordination of a duoq as a solo player.Also nothing stops you from duoqueing with someone.That is true.I never had an issue with top players duoqueing together also not at misha sind duoq times.Because you have never played at the level it actually makes a difference.If you think you know better then explain why most top players left the game and the few ones left think duoq has to return. And I mean top players like people who reach finals at monthlies and stuff.Read back any of the 100 threads we have had about this topic, many people including myself explained this.You apparently are a god of pvp if your opinion is right and theirs isn’t… smh
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@rank eleven monk.9502 said:Because you have never played at the level it actually makes a difference.

As a matter of fact its not true what you claim to know about me.I remember once being in a game with 6-7 esl pro league players, most of them were in duoq.My team won the game even though I had less esl players (& duoqs) on my team.This was one of the best games ever but nothing like this will ever happen because of this:

@Nash.3974 said:Y’all don’t get it.What makes you think you know better than the very best players in the game?Do you really think these players want duoq back so they can farm leaderboard or something? Why do you think would they want to get god of pvp even though they have it already? Sindrener mentioned a trillion times on stream that he doesn’t care about his rating or ranking.Yet these players want duoq back…You don’t understand that this leads to more and more top players leaving the game. In fact every season less and less good players play. This leads to pvp being less and less skillful and competitive. Nobody cares if you got r1 in these season not even because it could be wintrade but simply because there is no competition.Go on thinking like that and don’t you dare believe what top players have to say ( don’t worry I‘m not referring to me as top or best player, just referring to what sindrener and the likes think or atleast have said before )

Mate go out there and ask every single person and you will see that everybody agrees with me.If you cant back up ur opinion then dont claim to know what the majority wants because I went out there and asked hundreds of people who are AFFECTED by not being able to duoq :)Did you went out there and asked people and got the conclusion that they dont want duoq back? No so please stop pretending to know better.Again ask the AFFECTED audience!

Hell of a lot of top players said if duoq would return so would they...

This was the last time responding to you, if you still don't get it now then you're hopeless to argue with

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@Nash.3974 said:You don’t understand that this leads to more and more top players leaving the game. In fact every season less and less good players play. This leads to pvp being less and less skillful and competitive. Nobody cares if you got r1 in these season not even because it could be wintrade but simply because there is no competition.Go on thinking like that and don’t you dare believe what top players have to say ( don’t worry I‘m not referring to me as top or best player, just referring to what sindrener and the likes think or atleast have said before )

It's in their best interest to bully better players out of the game. It makes it vastly easier to convince themselves that they're amazing players.

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"Look at all the amazing people supporting this amazing opinion for such an amazing cause, while all those evil people support the evil opposing position for their own evil purposes. Clearly, only the good players voted for my opinion, but the poll was swayed by the evil players who are quite obviously of lower tier and whose opinions should not count for anything."

Personally, I don't care either way what they do with the queue system at this point, but listening to the logic behind some of these posts is just making me cringe.

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@"Kako.1930" said:"Look at all the amazing people supporting this amazing opinion for such an amazing cause, while all those evil people support the evil opposing position for their own evil purposes. Clearly, only the good players voted for my opinion, but the poll was swayed by the evil players who are quite obviously of lower tier and whose opinions should not count for anything."

Personally, I don't care either way what they do with the queue system at this point, but listening to the logic behind some of these posts is just making me cringe.

I don't think it's false. It's very clear that the game is predominantly played by a majority of low-skilled casual players. The original wvw and pvp community has left almost entirely. Any polls we've had have been impacted by this.

How do you interpret poll results, if 10% of players play pvp frequently and 90% of players barely play pvp, aren't impacted by the proposed changes directly but still have their own "!!! muh opinions!".

I get your point; OP can claim as they wish in their favor and you can agree or disagree. That doesn't mean it's not true; the vast majority of players "voting" don't know what they're on about and their vote isn't even relevant. But they'll vote to feel relevant regardless.

Which is mostly their loss; because they're generally making the game worse by their own ignorance.

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@Nash.3974 said:The recent poll just amazed me how many people who aren’t affected by anything voted against what the majority of the affected people want.To be more specific: it’s a fact that the majority of the plat 2+ players want duoq back. Then why do polls not always show this is a result?Because also people who aren’t affected by that get to vote and somehow most of them like to vote no.I‘m wondering about why do you vote for something you have no clue about/ you aren’t affected by?How did anyone think making a poll where everyone can vote even though they may have no knowledge about what really is best/good for a specific audience is solving a problem or is smart at all?What do you gain from voting no to duoq above plat 1 as a bronze/silver & even gold player?Explain please!!!

What makes you think a silver or gold player will never be matched against a plat duo?

The voting is about 1600 and above but you don't have to be in a duo yourself to play against a duo, it's not unreasonable to think 1600 players might drop to gold for various reasons, and you don't have to be in plat to be matched up against a plat duo.

Your question itself tends to a lack of understanding of how the mm works, ironically while you are criticising others for being supposedly ignorant.

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@Etheri.5406 said:

@"Kako.1930" said:"Look at all the amazing people supporting this amazing opinion for such an amazing cause, while all those evil people support the evil opposing position for their own evil purposes. Clearly, only the good players voted for my opinion, but the poll was swayed by the evil players who are quite obviously of lower tier and whose opinions should not count for anything."

Personally, I don't care either way what they do with the queue system at this point, but listening to the logic behind some of these posts is just making me cringe.

I don't think it's false. It's very clear that the game is predominantly played by a majority of low-skilled casual players. The original wvw and pvp community has left almost entirely. Any polls we've had have been impacted by this.

How do you interpret poll results, if 10% of players play pvp frequently and 90% of players barely play pvp, aren't impacted by the proposed changes directly but still have their own "!!! muh opinions!".

I get your point; OP can claim as they wish in their favor and you can agree or disagree. That doesn't mean it's not true; the vast majority of players "voting" don't know what they're on about and their vote isn't even relevant. But they'll vote to feel relevant regardless.

Which is mostly their loss; because they're generally making the game worse by their own ignorance.

It still seems like a lot of assuming to me.

1st assumption: 90% of voters are terrible pvpers that have no right voting2nd assumption: all of those illegitimate voters voted against my opinion3rd assumption: no skilled players voted against my opinion

This is just because, as far as I can tell, there isn't a whole lot of data to prove it either way. Someone could just as easily flip it to the completely opposite opinion and it would be equally true. It's not good to assume things like "I'm the best player with the best opinion" and "all the best players support me, but anyone who opposes me is just a bad player and their opinion doesn't count."

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@Etheri.5406 said:

@"Kako.1930" said:"Look at all the amazing people supporting this amazing opinion for such an amazing cause, while all those evil people support the evil opposing position for their own evil purposes. Clearly, only the good players voted for my opinion, but the poll was swayed by the evil players who are quite obviously of lower tier and whose opinions should not count for anything."

Personally, I don't care either way what they do with the queue system at this point, but listening to the logic behind some of these posts is just making me cringe.

I don't think it's false. It's very clear that the game is predominantly played by a majority of low-skilled casual players. The original wvw and pvp community has left almost entirely. Any polls we've had have been impacted by this.

How do you interpret poll results, if 10% of players play pvp frequently and 90% of players barely play pvp, aren't impacted by the proposed changes directly but still have their own "!!! muh opinions!".

I get your point; OP can claim as they wish in their favor and you can agree or disagree. That doesn't mean it's not true; the vast majority of players "voting" don't know what they're on about and their vote isn't even relevant. But they'll vote to feel relevant regardless.

Which is mostly their loss; because they're generally making the game worse by their own ignorance.

So calling them names and calling them clueless while hissing at them is the best solution to it? Can we please put away that elitist behavior and maybe have a discussion with these "irrelevant players" ? Players come and go and the community should adapt. But instead of adapting most of them don't like newcomers because "THEY ARE RUINING MAH GAMEMODE WITH BEING CLUELESS AND NOT GETTING ANY HELP BY A MORE EXPERIENCED PLAYER!"

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@Kako.1930 said:

@Kako.1930 said:"Look at all the amazing people supporting this amazing opinion for such an amazing cause, while all those evil people support the evil opposing position for their own evil purposes. Clearly, only the good players voted for my opinion, but the poll was swayed by the evil players who are quite obviously of lower tier and whose opinions should not count for anything."

Personally, I don't care either way what they do with the queue system at this point, but listening to the logic behind some of these posts is just making me cringe.

I don't think it's false. It's very clear that the game is predominantly played by a majority of low-skilled casual players. The original wvw and pvp community has left almost entirely. Any polls we've had have been impacted by this.

How do you interpret poll results, if 10% of players play pvp frequently and 90% of players barely play pvp, aren't impacted by the proposed changes directly but still have their own "!!! muh opinions!".

I get your point; OP can claim as they wish in their favor and you can agree or disagree. That doesn't mean it's not true; the vast majority of players "voting" don't know what they're on about and their vote isn't even relevant. But they'll vote to feel relevant regardless.

Which is mostly their loss; because they're generally making the game worse by their own ignorance.

It still seems like a lot of assuming to me.

1st assumption: 90% of voters are terrible pvpers that have no right voting2nd assumption: all of those illegitimate voters voted against my opinion3rd assumption: no skilled players voted against my opinion

This is just because, as far as I can tell, there isn't a whole lot of data to prove it either way. Someone could just as easily flip it to the completely opposite opinion and it would be equally true. It's not good to assume things like "I'm the best player with the best opinion" and "all the best players support me, but anyone who opposes me is just a bad player and their opinion doesn't count."

I didn't assume the 2nd or 3rd assumption anywhere.

I assumed only the first : 90% of players are terrible at the game and don't know what they're talking about. Their votes are dominant, but not relevant. I'm sure they still vote both sides; it's just very difficult to get proper results if the vast majority of your voters are barely relevant. What I mean by this is that it's a very common issue in GW2 that random players vote for stuff they barely understand, which only "dilutes" the relevant votes.

You talk about flipping things around, and assumptions and data but you haven't come up with a coherent argument or even been able to keep the assumptions straight.

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@Etheri.5406 said:

@Kako.1930 said:"Look at all the amazing people supporting this amazing opinion for such an amazing cause, while all those evil people support the evil opposing position for their own evil purposes. Clearly, only the good players voted for my opinion, but the poll was swayed by the evil players who are quite obviously of lower tier and whose opinions should not count for anything."

Personally, I don't care either way what they do with the queue system at this point, but listening to the logic behind some of these posts is just making me cringe.

I don't think it's false. It's very clear that the game is predominantly played by a majority of low-skilled casual players. The original wvw and pvp community has left almost entirely. Any polls we've had have been impacted by this.

How do you interpret poll results, if 10% of players play pvp frequently and 90% of players barely play pvp, aren't impacted by the proposed changes directly but still have their own "!!! muh opinions!".

I get your point; OP can claim as they wish in their favor and you can agree or disagree. That doesn't mean it's not true; the vast majority of players "voting" don't know what they're on about and their vote isn't even relevant. But they'll vote to feel relevant regardless.

Which is mostly their loss; because they're generally making the game worse by their own ignorance.

It still seems like a lot of assuming to me.

1st assumption: 90% of voters are terrible pvpers that have no right voting2nd assumption: all of those illegitimate voters voted against my opinion3rd assumption: no skilled players voted against my opinion

This is just because, as far as I can tell, there isn't a whole lot of data to prove it either way. Someone could just as easily flip it to the completely opposite opinion and it would be equally true. It's not good to assume things like "I'm the best player with the best opinion" and "all the best players support me, but anyone who opposes me is just a bad player and their opinion doesn't count."

I didn't assume the 2nd or 3rd assumption anywhere.

I assumed only the first : 90% of players are terrible at the game and don't know what they're talking about. Their votes are dominant, but not relevant. I'm sure they still vote both sides; it's just very difficult to get proper results if the vast majority of your voters are barely relevant. What I mean by this is that it's a very common issue in GW2 that random players vote for stuff they barely understand, which only "dilutes" the relevant votes.

You talk about flipping things around, and assumptions and data but you haven't come up with a coherent argument or even been able to keep the assumptions straight.

Well, I thought we were talking about the thread, not your personal opinion, so that's where the disconnect is. Also, I'm not arguing, just pointing out a flaw in some of the arguments that I've seen. Like I said, I couldn't care less either way about the queue system, but when the arguments on both sides are so biased and factless then the whole conversation seems moot anyways.

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@Solidaris.5423 said:

@"Kako.1930" said:"Look at all the amazing people supporting this amazing opinion for such an amazing cause, while all those evil people support the evil opposing position for their own evil purposes. Clearly, only the good players voted for my opinion, but the poll was swayed by the evil players who are quite obviously of lower tier and whose opinions should not count for anything."

Personally, I don't care either way what they do with the queue system at this point, but listening to the logic behind some of these posts is just making me cringe.

I don't think it's false. It's very clear that the game is predominantly played by a majority of low-skilled casual players. The original wvw and pvp community has left almost entirely. Any polls we've had have been impacted by this.

How do you interpret poll results, if 10% of players play pvp frequently and 90% of players barely play pvp, aren't impacted by the proposed changes directly but still have their own "!!! muh opinions!".

I get your point; OP can claim as they wish in their favor and you can agree or disagree. That doesn't mean it's not true; the vast majority of players "voting" don't know what they're on about and their vote isn't even relevant. But they'll vote to feel relevant regardless.

Which is mostly their loss; because they're generally making the game worse by their own ignorance.

So calling them names and calling them clueless while hissing at them is the best solution to it? Can we please put away that elitist behavior and maybe have a discussion with these "irrelevant players" ? Players come and go and the community should adapt. But instead of adapting most of them don't like newcomers because "THEY ARE RUINING MAH GAMEMODE WITH BEING CLUELESS AND NOT GETTING ANY HELP BY A MORE EXPERIENCED PLAYER!"

I don't mind clueless players. That's perfectly fine.

I'm sorry but the tons of "I played WvW for the first time this week and it was great but here's how you need to change it to make it better !!!" are absolute garbage.All the "I have great ideas on how to improve the game !!!" yet as soon as you ask 2 mindful questions you notice the entire system falls appart... Right; garbage.

If you barely understand how the game works, you're not in a position to drastically improve it. There's nothing wrong with new / bad players playing the game. There is a lot wrong if the feedback of these players is dominating all other feedback to the point where adequate feedback is nearly impossible. If you can't tell the difference, then we drastically need more elitism in this game.

@"Kako.1930" there are several fair conclusions you can draw from this thread; and you haven't contributed to any of them. You've just spammed about "your discussion has a lack of scientific data and all points here are moot!" while not providing any arguments, counter arguments or even a consistent reasoning showing your own point of view. Frankly, just more spam to sift through which hasn't adressed a single issue here.

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@Nash.3974 said:(...)To be more specific: it’s a fact that the majority of the plat 2+ players want duoq back. Then why do polls not always show this is a result?(...)

Or maybe because your assumption is wrong. We don't know, because there is no poll like that. @rank eleven monk.9502 and me, for example, are probably against duoQ - sorry if I assume something wrong here. Without a proper poll exactly reflecting the rating and the vote for or against duoQ, you just shouldn't assume such things.

Such a vote would actually be interesting (I totally agree with that), but could hardly reflect the whole truth, because it is hard to catch all the players. Therefor most polls are not statistically relevant.

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