WvW Arrow Cart Nerfing

Nerfing arrow carts will only dissuade people even further from defending objectives.

Already ACs weren't very effective against catapults taking down walls or against enemy players running around the base of walls taking down ballistae, now they will be even less so. Is Anet trying to promote objective flip training instead of more complex strategy play?

Anyone have any ideas why they decided to further complicate proper tower/keep defense?

They listened to the blob ktrain that "only wanted fights". It was taking the "only wanted fights" blob more than 3 minutes to take T3 structures, according to about every forum post about it, claimed that planning, strategy and actually SIEGING structures was boring, cause "no one wants to stand under arrow carts".Now, all those bandwagon, blob, "only wanting fights" servers can continue their ktrain domination.

This AC nerfs are nothing they need to put the ammo system on their shots u can only shoot 5 times every 15 secs or so, that way u actually need to make your shots count, coordinate with your commanders when to shoot stuff like that not just sit there spamming 1, this nerfs do nothing to the AC damage. U can nerf AC damage vs siege all u want but u put 2 ACs to shoot a catapult or a shield gen and the person using will die in 5 secs even on full misntrel

OMG I have to use my own skills nonononononononoono :(

It's about time

@"Ubi.4136" said:

They listened to the blob ktrain that "only wanted fights". ...

Well, it's a thoughtless change which will promote lower quality WvW play. If you're right about why they did it (and I believe you very well might be right) Anet is listening to the wrong people. This is not a smart change. I hope Anet gives us a better reason than that, because some of us actually care about better WvW play.

@Garrus.7403 said:OMG I have to use my own skills nonononononononoono :(

You seem to be a very intelligent person capable of expressing yourself properly. Any more thoughts on this matter?

Well, they nerfed shield gens at least. We'll see if it promotes more ktraining though.

I have single-handedly built a sup AC AFTER a superior cata was built on a wall for a paper tower. I had to run to the supply hut (which was far away) twice. I was able to kill the cata with that 1 sup AC that wasn't even already there before the wall got taken down. If that's not very effective against catapults, well then I don't know what would be considered effective. Maybe just looking at the catapult and destroying it?

Good.

If you want to defend an objective, you should put yourself at risk - preferably in combat with the attackers. The walls should just be there for stalling attackers until a defending force can arrive.

@"Shagaliscious.6281" said:I have single-handedly built a sup AC AFTER a superior cata was built on a wall for a paper tower. " ...

Against one cata with untrained bubble-less operator... sure. But try to take down 3 or more catas with bubbles with a a few arrow carts. Even with full AC mastery and Siege Might mastery it cannot be done in time.

@coro.3176 said:Good.

If you want to defend an objective, you should put yourself at risk - preferably in combat with the attackers. The walls should just be there for stalling attackers until a defending force can arrive.

The WvW game includes many elements more than personal combat. These elements, such as siege equipment, are meant to enrich the mechanics and make the game more complex. Your argument is that it is better to dumb it down and limit it to one form of play. I have to disagree.

Defending was too easy.

I dont think acs were the main problem, rather tactics, t3 gates/walls and claim buff, but at least it is at the right direction.

Like literally best plan with good group vs good group was never going near upgraded enemy objectives. As long as they nerf claim buff, it will be pretty balanced.

@Ged Kealmen.7210 said:

@"Shagaliscious.6281" said:I have single-handedly built a sup AC AFTER a superior cata was built on a wall for a paper tower. " ...

What does untrained bubble have anything to do with it? Cata bubbles do not negate AC fire, only shield gen bubbles do. Surely you know this.

@Garrus.7403 said:OMG I have to use my own skills nonononononononoono :(

I will happily use my weapon skills against attackers if AoE's could not be placed on walls making standing on the lip of them to hit attackers a deathtrap.

As for engaging in open combat that is not an option if you are 5-10 people and the enemy is 50.

@LaGranse.8652 said:

@Garrus.7403 said:OMG I have to use my own skills nonononononononoono :(

You should be able to delay ppl if you are outnumbered not to hold them off. If you can not get reinforcements you should loose the objective.

good jobfed up with bads who camp walls and never come out to fight

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:I have single-handedly built a sup AC AFTER a superior cata was built on a wall for a paper tower. I had to run to the supply hut (which was far away) twice. I was able to kill the cata with that 1 sup AC that wasn't even already there before the wall got taken down. If that's not very effective against catapults, well then I don't know what would be considered effective. Maybe just looking at the catapult and destroying it?

Then the cata users were morons. The easy answer is they should have built outside the AC range. The second is that a sup ac firing on a sup cata takes about 2 min to destroy which is more than enough time to bang a paper wall down. My guess is none of the attackers could handle the AC damage long enough to get consistent fires on the cata. One decent healer, and the jig was up.

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:What does untrained bubble have anything to do with it? Cata bubbles do not negate AC fire, only shield gen bubbles do. Surely you know this.

You're right in this.

But still, bubbles or not, two arrow carts with full AC damage will not stop 2 or 3 catas at the base of a wall from taking it town and ballistae cannot hit there. So in effect this change will force defenders to jump out and fight even if outnumbered. This will make defending the base of walls just about numbers and fighting instead of proper full-mechanics objective siege/defense. My point stands, this is a change that contributes to ktraining, simplifies the strategy in WvW, and makes the game far more basic and mindless.

@"Player.9621" said:good jobfed up with bads who camp walls and never come out to fight

If your point is that fighting is the only thing worth doing, why bother having keeps, towers, etc? If that's the point of WvW you should just try to get Anet to give you a big arena so you could just fight the "bads" and prove how good you are. Oh wait... they did give you that. You should stay there and just fight.

@Ged Kealmen.7210 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:What does untrained bubble have anything to do with it? Cata bubbles do not negate AC fire, only shield gen bubbles do. Surely you know this.

What was more basic and mindless then sitting on arrow carts? Now you have to actually fight instead of sit on siege, yea, that is so mindless and basic. Sorry but a handful of people should not be able to deter a group of 20+. And news flash, servers that ktrain, will always ktrain, nothing will change that. And servers that prefer to fight rather than take objectives, will still look for a fight over taking an objective, none of these changes are gonna change the way certain people prefer to play this game mode.

@Straegen.2938 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:I have single-handedly built a sup AC AFTER a superior cata was built on a wall for a paper tower. I had to run to the supply hut (which was far away) twice. I was able to kill the cata with that 1 sup AC that wasn't even already there before the wall got taken down. If that's not very effective against catapults, well then I don't know what would be considered effective. Maybe just looking at the catapult and destroying it?

That's true, was only 3 roamers, and none were healers. So with these changes, I would've lost that tower, and I should have. If you can't get a handful of people to come defend a tower from a couple, you don't deserve to keep that tower. Maybe now people will respond to call outs since the old notion of "just build an AC" isn't gonna fly anymore.

Defending T3 is and was a joke. Twenty uncoordinated players could stall 60 for two hours easily. Between supply traps, treb poisons, acs, ballista, meteor shower and scourge aoes, you could literally never go near the Zerg and still stop their push.

The only people who will complain about this are the people who purely PPT. I hope you fail to defend your dumb keeps and your servers fall back down to the proper tier they deserve to be in.

@"Shagaliscious.6281" said:What was more basic and mindless then sitting on arrow carts? Now you have to actually fight instead of sit on siege, yea, that is so mindless and basic. "

Having fewer effective options to defend is more basic. Any way you try to spin it, the point is the same: this simplifies and makes the game options more limited.

Again, you are right in some regards though:

@"Shagaliscious.6281" said:servers that ktrain, will always ktrain, nothing will change that / none of these changes are gonna change the way certain people prefer to play this game mode.

In the end it's all about player base preference and developer choice of game direction. But if towers and keeps are meant to be easily taken against one or two defenders with just a couple attackers more, then they are worthless as strategic positions. If they are so easily flippable then tiering up will remain a matter of which team has more people and has better coverage. This is making the game more basic and mindless, instead of strategic.

But I can see how it would be hard for certain players to understand this, when all they want to do is fight. "Certain people" they are.

@Garrus.7403 said:

@LaGranse.8652 said:

@Garrus.7403 said:OMG I have to use my own skills nonononononononoono :(

Yes, I did not state in my post that the 5-10 defenders should be able to repel the 50, unconditionally, however if the 5-10 tried to "OMG use their skills" they would delay the siege for about 5-10 seconds at the most. To delay for longer siege disables would have to be used but no one hate on those, probably because using one is a suicide mission half the time.

If your blob go rushing in spamming catapults at a keep wall and then have no supply left for shield gens you do in my opinion deserve to lose against the defensive siege, try doing the same thing against a real life fortress.

Since it was nerfed 50% to siege, build 2 acs instead of 1, problem solved.