Close to Death Rework

Instead of 20% below 50% hp, plus 1% damage per stack of vuln.I know this is supposed to be some execute type trait, but its really not working imo, especially in pve where this would make the most difference.Maybe add another 5% to strength of undeath as well eh?

5min fix to balance problem. Make 3 dmg mod auras:

• thief -10% dmg aura pve only
• ele +5% dmg aura pve only
• necro +10% dmg aura pve only

This is like 5 min fix with would put all classes on 31-34k benchmarks without breaking the classes. And everything would be viable. After that you can play with how the speed feels and reduce the aura values etc. Simple.

I'm not sure this would solve anything to be honest. The necromancer's issue with power damage lie deeper than just a few damage modifier. The issue lie in core design:

• Anet chose to put utilities on core necromancer's weapon and "damaging" abilities on utility skills.I think that it was a choice necessary for anet in order to allow the possibility of the "minion master", minions being mainly offensive by design. Anet probably didn't expect that the game would move so much toward pure damage and that minions wouldn't live to player's expectation. In the end, most utilities ended up as "damaging skills" with excessively long cool down. Anet tried, with difficulty, to make up for the lack of power on the weapon skills by putting some power on them, but it's never good design to put damage on utility skills so it often go back and forth.

• The shroud.The shroud is designed to be part of the damage skillset of the necromancer, however, it's defensive nature force anet to keep the shroud skills on the low side of the damage spectrum. That is without saying that the whole system of second life bar limit severly the use of the shroud skills as damaging component. Ironically, the shroud is potentially a very strong tool but balance force it to be limited in damage output and it's ability to deal damage while on a defensive stance force anet to make this defense as brittle as possible. This combined force the shroud to be balanced in regard of damage and is a brake that slow down the necromancer in the PvE DPS race.

• Leeching effects/boon corrupting effects.Vampirism, life siphon, leeching effect... These are the romance of the dark mage which the necromancer is in players' mind. However, there is a vicious downside on this. Those effects that are inherently weak for balance purpose are also counted as a dps tool. The fact that those dps tools are influenced by neither precision nor ferocity make them poor addition to the GW2 dps race. Obviously, if GW2 didn't have precision and ferocity, those effects would be king, granting easily up to 20% extra damage while healing.

In regard of condition dps, it's all the same except that instead of being limited by leeching effects, the condi specs are limited (in PvE) by the boon corruption effects that are supposed to be necromancer's condition damage increase. Boon corrupting effect are an effect that can be really good while playing solo, however, this effect quickly lose any power when you challenge the PvE content in a group setting.

Honnestly, the necromancer could be a very strong dps in PvE, it's only issue is that it's mechanisms/tools hinder him so much that he end up with a poor dps. By design, the profession have never been adapted to the PvE end game, and I doubt that anet ever manage to adapt PvE to the necromancer's tools and mechanisms.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

Honnestly, the necromancer could be a very strong dps in PvE, it's only issue is that it's mechanisms/tools hinder him so much that he end up with a poor dps. By design, the profession have never been adapted to the PvE end game, and I doubt that anet ever manage to adapt PvE to the necromancer's tools and mechanisms.

True that. Anet would and should never design PvE encounters over the need for Necromancers. Even in the cases they did give boons to enemies in raids and fractals, other classes are preferred since they still bring better damage. The Necromancer could really use a trait overhaul where different traitlines weaken one aspect while improving on others. Its base strength is probably still too strong. Give us a trait where we can increase damage in shroud in exchange for more damage taken in shroud or something.

@Deadvillager.1956 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

Honnestly, the necromancer could be a very strong dps in PvE, it's only issue is that it's mechanisms/tools hinder him so much that he end up with a poor dps. By design, the profession have never been adapted to the PvE end game, and I doubt that anet ever manage to adapt PvE to the necromancer's tools and mechanisms.

The problem with a trait like that is the higher damage in shroud would be offset by the shorter time in shroud due to higher damage taken. Shroud as a mechanic just doesn't work well. It never existed in GW1, and it doesn't work well in GW2. It's a novel idea, and a fun mechanic in open world, but it just doesn't translate into the game well. Hindsight is 20/20 though and it's been wrong too long to change it now. Most people would have designed Necromancer completely differently given the opportunity, especially if they played one in the previous game. Most of the other classes with the same namesake at least resemble where they came from.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:Instead of 20% below 50% hp, plus 1% damage per stack of vuln.I know this is supposed to be some execute type trait, but its really not working imo, especially in pve where this would make the most difference.Maybe add another 5% to strength of undeath as well eh?

Math says that is a huge buff in PvE. A +20% for <50% health averages to 10%. If Necro gets 1% per vuln stack, you know that really means 25% on bosses in group content.

However, the trait will loose potency in solo PvE. PvP may come out even or better.

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:Instead of 20% below 50% hp, plus 1% damage per stack of vuln.I know this is supposed to be some execute type trait, but its really not working imo, especially in pve where this would make the most difference.Maybe add another 5% to strength of undeath as well eh?

surrender to the 11111

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:Instead of 20% below 50% hp, plus 1% damage per stack of vuln.I know this is supposed to be some execute type trait, but its really not working imo, especially in pve where this would make the most difference.Maybe add another 5% to strength of undeath as well eh?

It is akin to the Expose Weakness change on Thief.

Yeah, I am not a fan of 1111, or 2222, for that matter.

It would be nice, maybe radical, if Necro could do bonus damage when using certain skills against opponents with specific boons or conditions (and, maybe, have damage nerfed for using a very wrong skill.)

A simple example is if an opponent is blinded, a dark-based attack does 10% more damage and a second dark-based attack does 25% more damage, if the blind is still active. Using a fire-based attack on an opponent without burning would result in no bonus and reset any bonus increases for other attack types, although adding burning could start a bonus chain.

Likewise, specific boons could add bonus damage. Striking a foe with might using a weakness skill could do extra damage. Chill and slow could do more damage against alacrity and swiftness.

There are many ways to modify damage that are not 4257ws35f1269f2...

I want to break this idea that rotations are more rewarding than paying attention and doing the right thing, while avoiding the wrong thing. I am tired of posts that boil down to, "My mindless rotation is way more complicated than yours so I should have 50k dps and you should have 10k because I hardly have any time to worry about event mechanics."

The concept of rotations is something of a professional hot-button for me. Complicated, yet repetitive, tasks actually cause errors in decision making more than 1111, which at least has low enough cognitive loading to not distract people from the "big picture." People have a finite amount of attention to allocate to a task, even with extensive training. Use it up on something better done by a bot and increased decision-making error rate will result.

@"Anchoku.8142" said:Yeah, I am not a fan of 1111, or 2222, for that matter.

It would be nice, maybe radical, if Necro could do bonus damage when using certain skills against opponents with specific boons or conditions (and, maybe, have damage nerfed for using a very wrong skill.)

A simple example is if an opponent is blinded, a dark-based attack does 10% more damage and a second dark-based attack does 25% more damage, if the blind is still active. Using a fire-based attack on an opponent without burning would result in no bonus and reset any bonus increases for other attack types, although adding burning could start a bonus chain.

Likewise, specific boons could add bonus damage. Striking a foe with might using a weakness skill could do extra damage. Chill and slow could do more damage against alacrity and swiftness.

For pvp this could be a great idea but if it means skills would be naturally weaker as result immediately hate the idea of it.

Looking at pve where all conditions will be on the foes you are likely attacking all the time which leads to spamming the strongest damage bonus attack as often as possible.In your 2nd example in pve foes wont really have boons often enough for this to really apply to skills probably 95% of the time.

At this point it starts to bleed into your statement below where your rotation is going to change so dynamically all the time that it becomes far too complicated. At least for gw2 speed of combat anyways.

Edit:Death spiral actually had this fuction added dealing bonus damage to foes above 50% I feel like the easiest way would be to do something similar for gravedigger that has a lingering effect for all out going damage while removing the cd reset from the skill.

There are many ways to modify damage that are not 4257ws35f1269f2...

I want to break this idea that rotations are more rewarding than paying attention and doing the right thing, while avoiding the wrong thing. I am tired of posts that boil down to, "My mindless rotation is way more complicated than yours so I should have 50k dps and you should have 10k because I hardly have any time to worry about event mechanics."

The concept of rotations is something of a professional hot-button for me. Complicated, yet repetitive, tasks actually cause errors in decision making more than 1111, which at least has low enough cognitive loading to not distract people from the "big picture." People have a finite amount of attention to allocate to a task, even with extensive training. Use it up on something better done by a bot and increased decision-making error rate will result.

I do agree with this statement though complicating a rotation up to a certain point makes the game a chore and not enjoyable to play. Even repetitive rotations like 2222 have this fault though it might come down to lack of attention instead of reaching an attention limit. The number of times a boss has been nudged slightly out of range over the course of a few gravediggers and i failed to pay attention which results in me missing 1 causing it to go on cooldown.

There are times where i start pressing 22222422222722228 and and i start literally paying attention to everything else but the boss or its mechanics. I feel a rotation keeps you engaged but over complicating it causes you to stop paying attention to certain mechanics because you are too focused on "not messing up" as you said.

I think generally its best to meet at a fine line between dynamic and repetitive.

As you said not "4257ws35f1269f2..." but also not "22222"

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:Instead of 20% below 50% hp, plus 1% damage per stack of vuln.I know this is supposed to be some execute type trait, but its really not working imo, especially in pve where this would make the most difference.Maybe add another 5% to strength of undeath as well eh?

I dont think close to death needs to be touched. It would require a rework of all other similar execution type traits which would overall leave necro in the same position and you still wouldn't be happy with it.

I think at most the only ones that need to change areTarget the weak in cursesStrength of Undeath as you already pointed out. i think another 5% on it would be fine.

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:Instead of 20% below 50% hp, plus 1% damage per stack of vuln.I know this is supposed to be some execute type trait, but its really not working imo, especially in pve where this would make the most difference.Maybe add another 5% to strength of undeath as well eh?

What are your thoughts on target the weak?

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:Instead of 20% below 50% hp, plus 1% damage per stack of vuln.I know this is supposed to be some execute type trait, but its really not working imo, especially in pve where this would make the most difference.Maybe add another 5% to strength of undeath as well eh?

Just a minor 1% damage per condition to its current iteration which would average any where from a minimum 9 or 10% to max 14% assuming every condition is applied in the game.Although some people argue that should just be changed from critical chance to damage all together.

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:Instead of 20% below 50% hp, plus 1% damage per stack of vuln.I know this is supposed to be some execute type trait, but its really not working imo, especially in pve where this would make the most difference.Maybe add another 5% to strength of undeath as well eh?

You know, back to its original form.

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:Instead of 20% below 50% hp, plus 1% damage per stack of vuln.I know this is supposed to be some execute type trait, but its really not working imo, especially in pve where this would make the most difference.Maybe add another 5% to strength of undeath as well eh?

Yes but we all know the reason why it got changed.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:Instead of 20% below 50% hp, plus 1% damage per stack of vuln.I know this is supposed to be some execute type trait, but its really not working imo, especially in pve where this would make the most difference.Maybe add another 5% to strength of undeath as well eh?

Yeah because it was in the Condition/Critical hit line. And due to the specialization change, anet cut back on many damage modifiers at the time. That said, Engineer kept theirs and now Thief has it too. I don't see why we shouldn't be allowed an incarnation of it, when our power damage levels aren't that high (in a different line ofc).

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:Instead of 20% below 50% hp, plus 1% damage per stack of vuln.I know this is supposed to be some execute type trait, but its really not working imo, especially in pve where this would make the most difference.Maybe add another 5% to strength of undeath as well eh?

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/37472/how-do-you-feel-about-close-to-death#latest