Traps

I have a suggestion. To improve condi builds without even changing a trait we could get some love for our thief trapsfor example a Tripwire migt cause at least some stacks of Bleeding or Vulnerablity or something not as much as Needle Trap but at least some bleeding.Also Shadow trap i dont believe anyone uses that or used that EVER if i am wrong you can say it in comments. But i would switch Shadow Trap to something familiar to Rangers Frost or Flame Trap or maybe it should be Boons stealing trap since everyone drops dozens of them in pvp and wvw.Because lets face it Guardian and Ranger both have more conditions dealing traps then us thieves. We actually have only one and we even hav traits that are supposed to reward us for using Traps. Problem is tho nobody would do it beacuse they deal no real dmg except for Needle trap.I would be happy if this changed i am looking for oppinions. We wouldnt need to change a sinlge trait cuz of this so it might really be easy changeAlso it wouldnt change DE or core thief at all so it might be friendly for both sides

If we're looking to improve traps as a whole, I'd rather they released an Elite spec based on/building on them.

@Jack Redline.5379 said:Also Shadow trap i dont believe anyone uses that or used that EVER if i am wrong you can say it in comments.

i use it regularly in every position that i know it wont bug. it is an anwesome tool to setup an ambush or to escape.if the LoS requirement was removed as it also has a valid path requirement or if the point you need a LoS too put higher above the trap so it is more reliable then it would be alot more useful. the long cast time on destroy shadow trap makes that one also nearly impossible to use as both of its function : stunbreak + teleport.this traps main issue it being so unreliable and very RNG with no indicator if it works. nothing like actually casting destroy shadow trap in an opponents face for nothing to happen after the cast. but if it was reliable you would see it being used ALOT, because on paper it is one of our best utilities.

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:Also Shadow trap i dont believe anyone uses that or used that EVER if i am wrong you can say it in comments.

Hmm. Didnt expect someone would actually use it but yea i see you made valid point. Hmm but i was thinking more like ''battle traps'' In PVP and WvW you are able to use both Needle trap, Ambush and Tripwire in close combat. Playing with traits Trappers respite and Deadly trapper you are able to actually fight with these in close melee combat. They can be applied at the end of your dodge and enemy who attacks you right away because most are dummies will step on it and get some condi or knock or will summon a thief that will attack him. But shadow trap really isnt something you could use like this. Besides we already have a lot of shadowstepping mechanics in our skills. I think one boon stealing trap would be way better than shadow trap (since we have shadowstep, signet, steal and attack 3 d/p)

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:Also Shadow trap i dont believe anyone uses that or used that EVER if i am wrong you can say it in comments.

shadow trap is not just a shadow step tho. destroying it is merely a shadow step yes, but when it is used for opponents to actually step into it and ambush them? then its more then that.IMO if you want to rework some trap, rework ambush ambush is in my opinion just terrible in most situations.needle trap is good condi trap and compareable to DH/ranger traps. and tripwire is a decent CC practical mostly for an ambush with a power build. shadow trap is an ambush trap.you wont be running more then 2 traps in most cases. in an ambush build you will optimally run shadow trap + X. for example needle + shadow trap. then you place them ontop of each other for example in WvW you place them in the little ogre door next to ogrewatch, often people walk through there and then hide yourself in the ogre chief house. once tiggered you your opponent will have the condis and you can teleport on them with shaodw persuit to lets say use a sneak attack from p/d ontop etc. or you can use tripwire + shadow trap and then teleport next to that knocked downed opponent and backstab/vault etc. (tho for power ambush only shadow trap might cause less reaction then a knockdown). i think trapper builds should not be like i stack 3-5 traps, port spawn and if an opponent walks into them he drops instant, they should be a tool, an engage strategy, not the entire fight.

@MUDse.7623 said:i agree traps should be fighting tool and i also use them like that but my point is since everyone has thos condi cleanses it would be nice to apply more condis through traps beacuse if you do use them in close fight and you play condi trapper you could use if they gave condis to enemies because even d/d doesnt have infinite dodges and if your enemy is not dead by the moment you are out of dodges all you can do is really shadowstap away which is not in your advantage because they can follow you and kill you or you will die at spot.I dont argue shadow trap is bad. It may be useful yes but as i said we have plenty shadowsteping abilites. And really very few boon strips. I will name thosesteal if traited with bountiful theft (wont give any boons to you tho only to alies 3)stealth attack from 1 if traited with Rending shade (which requires you to run SA)Larcenous strike 3 attack with s/d (only one build to steal boons)and that is it. Three possible ways for us to stael boons, all of them bound to a specific build which you dont necesseraly have to run = you wont steal any boonsImo it is a bit weird i mean we are thieves we should be stealing stuff from ppl I mean yes stolen skills are nice but stealing boons from enemies that is real thing i would imagine under Steal something from enemy. And therefore Traps are not something you need to trait because they are utility one of them might be boon stealing trap. I would vote for Shadow trap because as i said i dont see it as close combat trap more like backdoor if you expect to get into trouble. But it is possible it could be other trap maybe they could give it to the Deadly trapper trait We would not get might or we would get only 2 might AND we would steal 1 boon per each trap.I think that would be like really honey on my fingers so i think that wont happen BUT I CAN DREAM CANT I ? XD XD XD XD

@Jack Redline.5379increasing the pure activation damage of traps will promote too much a set traps and game over fights.
i would prefer we had 2 actual condi sets so you would be more versitile. but the only set with every skill usefull on a condi build is p/d.and thats actually a set that can perfectly be used in an ambush style with traps. using it with rending shade you also have plenty of boon rip (if the stealth was more reliable from CnD..) i would love if CnD would grant 1s of stealth on not hitting anything and 3s if it does so it is atleast a target break + in p/d builds an option to sneak attack, the ini cost ist currently just too high to risk it missing.what we do not have is a good melee condi set. we have s/d and d/d condi builds but one relies on traits/utility for damage and the other has 1 skill to spamm. thats why i hope that we get with another xpac maybe a dual wield torch set. there are plenty of torches you can already pick up and dual wield in OW or even in WvW before the obsidian sanctum darkroom,. so there are already animations for torch mainhand moves.but centering this all around traps is just going to end up in a utility condi build were weapon choice doesnt really matter so you aswell can just pick a mobility/stealth option like s/d condi or old ghost thieves did.if i wanted to play condi thief now, i would probably try some SA, DA, DE p/d+rifle build. rifle mainly for stealth, mobility and maybe longrange minimal condi pressure with panic strike on spotters shot. but i do not like the way this game handles conditions and i think they depend too much on the opponent, they can be very strong against some and pretty useless against others, power is allways good - so i dont see myself playing condi soon.

@MUDse.7623 said:@Jack Redline.5379increasing the pure activation damage of traps will promote too much a set traps and game over fights.

i would prefer we had 2 actual condi sets so you would be more versitile. but the only set with every skill usefull on a condi build is p/d.and thats actually a set that can perfectly be used in an ambush style with traps. using it with rending shade you also have plenty of boon rip (if the stealth was more reliable from CnD..) i would love if CnD would grant 1s of stealth on not hitting anything and 3s if it does so it is atleast a target break + in p/d builds an option to sneak attack, the ini cost ist currently just too high to risk it missing.what we do not have is a good melee condi set. we have s/d and d/d condi builds but one relies on traits/utility for damage and the other has 1 skill to spamm. thats why i hope that we get with another xpac maybe a dual wield torch set. there are plenty of torches you can already pick up and dual wield in OW or even in WvW before the obsidian sanctum darkroom,. so there are already animations for torch mainhand moves.but centering this all around traps is just going to end up in a utility condi build were weapon choice doesnt really matter so you aswell can just pick a mobility/stealth option like s/d condi or old ghost thieves did.if i wanted to play condi thief now, i would probably try some SA, DA, DE p/d+rifle build. rifle mainly for stealth, mobility and maybe longrange minimal condi pressure with panic strike on spotters shot. but i do not like the way this game handles conditions and i think they depend too much on the opponent, they can be very strong against some and pretty useless against others, power is allways good - so i dont see myself playing condi soon.

yes i think that with that adding condis to traps i would not find many supporters but that boon steal seems quite real for me. Even that would make traps more attractive. I play really a lot of pvp and all thieves i see there are either rifle De's or p/d stealth power thieves. You can very rarely find condi thief now and you may bless taht day you hit condi trapper i have just one on my server and she thinks i am moron xD or at least she calls me like that every time i kill her since i do this long time and i know how to use this xD. My point is if we would have something that would enhance traps not necessarily dmg-wise maybe utility wise like that boon steal it would make them more preferable for players and it could again be a big step forward beacsue we would maybe get rid of p/p spammers which are annoying and mostly not even usuful.As far as double torch goes.... well i would love to see that but i think Anet doesnt see Thief as a class that would spread fire.I mean over last updates and patches all they were taking care for was bleeding and poison. We never even dealt other damaging condition than that. (except for tornment)We apply blindnes, vulnerability, weakness, cripple. imob, poison, bleeding and tornemt (in very small amount) and it has been like this since forever.I mean it would be nice but it really seems off. Just check those condis and compare them with fire.condis we apply are sneaky and are supposed to weaken the enemy so we can kill it easier. (sort of fits Thief idea)but fire..... that is literally screaming ''HAHA WATCH OUT ---- I AM COMING''i think that wouldnt happen xD but i would love to see it beacuse that ^^ is exactly what i would play since that moment forever as a thief xD sort of psycho pyro throwing Molotov coctails and burning down everything in deadly AoEs xDand another thing AoEs thief really doesnt have many of those. I can think only of Caltrops and poison field from sb (talking about dmging ones not stealth ones)

Shadow trap put on top of a needle trap in WvW can lead to instant kills. As example I will stack the two when roaming at the most traversed entrance into a camp then head in to flip the camp. That thing triggers I port to the trap and am stealthed even as the needle trap added its bleeds poison and Immobs and can sneak atttack port away.

Shadow trap is also very handy when rebuilding walls in WvW. Assume NET was hit and you run supplies to repair from garrison. set a Shadowtrap outside the tower, use the WP to port to garri grab supplies run out the gate engage shadowtrap.

It works great in flight and fight setups. You are often outnumbered or have to flee fight to "reset". Drop this as you run from the enemy or enemy group. They run over it and you port back behind them to launch an attack or flee in the other direction while stealthed.

Group fights will often see an enemy downed and a thief on the enemy side stacking up stealth to slowly dart in and out to attempt a Rez. Rather then hang at the body randomly swinging and using spells drop traps on top of the same then get back into the fight. That thief tries his rez the Sahdow trigger goes off and you know he there and you an port back . Thief still eats the needle.

IT also works great on DE rifle sniper. You can drop it during a fight and as an enemy pursues you as you kite, port back to get target drop and or confuse the enemy. This can often get you in and behind something like the Guardians frontal projectile blocks. This relocate ability does not need the trap triggered to work.

This trp would be a GO to on a number of my builds IF it were not for the pathing problems. While at shorter ranges you can get this to be somewhat reliable it is the longer ports that add the most utility and these can fail too often. They fix that and this trap a beaut.

@Jack Redline.5379while thief has no access to fire YET it doesnt mean the chances are low we are getting it.i mean soo many bandits in this game spread fire all day burning down houses etc. just explore OW Kryta maps with alot of bandits and you will notice every 2nd house is burning. and the class cosest to something like a bandit i think is thief, those OW bandits also use apart from fire mostly poison and bleed. i dont think that an arsonist spec is soo off the track.. i mean with deadeye we got our sniper/assassin, with daredevil our acrobatic style now we need a bandit style like either arsonist or with a mace/hammer and CC focused but CC would probably go towards power again and to keep it a little more versetile i would prefer an arsonist altho i probably wouldnt play it myself unless they also change the way condis are in this game.

what i would like for condis: condi application should be compareably telegraphed as power damage, so mostly high damage = big telegraph , then resistance needs to reduce condi damage by at most 33%, it may still make immune to soft CC like stability to hard CC. cleanses need to be changed to be more specific either damaging condition or other conditions, there should be many options to cleanse soft CC, not that many for damaging conditions. then we could tone down a little condition damage.with all that condition damage would be more reliable, probably still not as reliable as power but good. as unreliable as conditions currently are, they could for all i care apply their condis with each skill for 1 min+, if you have enough resistance or cleanse you wont care, yet if you dont you already are dead in current game to 1-2 minor condi applications. so it would be less about how much cleanse/resistance you got but more about avoiding big condi applications , just like with power. with that condition would take its place to fight opponents with higher toughness better and they should still deal less damage to glass targets then power builds with compareable offensive focus, wich would require us to add another relevant stat for condition i guess or make them crit (with lower base ofc) and use ferocity.with such a condi rework, i would maybe even play condi builds.

I used to run (and still do sometimes for fun) a trapper daredevil, DA trickery DD with needle trap, shadowstep and shadow trap. Laying traps in a choke point, porting onto them with shadow trap then spamming choking gas with interrupt traits/sigils will still kill a good amount of people, the meta is significantly more cleanse/bunker oriented than it was in HoT and condi thief has taken a lot of nerds since the choking gas daze was introduced tho.

Shadow trap is most useful to me for juking, allowing me to run in a direction, lay the trap, porting to the first enemy that triggers it then running the opposite direction with the stealth from the trap. I also used to use it in a similar way to steal to land needle trap on enemies before needle trap had a trigger time, much like a DH using judges intervention with their traps. Between the traited needle trap and the utility this meant I could steal to an opponent, heal then weapon swap to cancel heal placing the trap instantly (really makes the trait more reliable to land that), place shadow trap on top of them while they're immobed, wait for the cleanse then precast needle trap and port onto them again with shadow trap to land it, then spam pistol 2 to keep them locked down and apply more poison. Lots of people just melted to that, as most builds then had one big cleanse that they spammed after the initial burst, and didn't expect a second spike so fast.

Theoretically you could still use it to land backstab vs stealthed enemies, but generally there's a better skill for the slot. It's an unreliable skill unfortunately, but with trapper runes it adds a lot of versatility to an otherwise one dimensional build.

I remember one fight with a druid in HoT, he had the cleanse signet, so I laid shadow trap, ported to him and spiked with needle trap and choking gas, then activated shadow trap to port back while his smokescale was doing it's shadowstep attack. Because his pet was out of range he couldn't cleanse with the signet, so the condis killed him. Stuff like that is why I like shadow trap lol.

Tbh if you wanted to improve traps I'd say change the shape of the trap to a circle with 360 radius, same as the other professions. That would mean you still have time to react from the arm time, the traps still reveal me so no ghost thief, I but you could use them with ports again which would be more interesting than the current design.

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:Tbh if you wanted to improve traps I'd say change the shape of the trap to a circle with 360 radius, same as the other professions. That would mean you still have time to react from the arm time, the traps still reveal me so no ghost thief, I but you could use them with ports again which would be more interesting than the current design.

360 radius? thats HUGE!i think the other traps are 180 radius with 240 effect.

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:Tbh if you wanted to improve traps I'd say change the shape of the trap to a circle with

360 radius

, same as the other professions. That would mean you still have time to react from the arm time, the traps still reveal me so no ghost thief, I but you could use them with ports again which would be more interesting than the current design.

Ah, that'll do then, I just picked a number to be honest lol

@MUDse.7623@Jugglemonkey.8741@babazhook.6805its a shame we cant show each other how we play trapper because from what i read you 'd play it VERY VERY differently than i play it and so you dont see what i mean and i dont see what you mean. About that arsonist i am okay with that i would love to have torches. Altho i would like different name for it something more ''brutal'' like Pyro or Maniac or something like that.About round traps... it is a nice idea yes. But i like them as they are this way they are very wide if you would make them round the radius would have to be smaller also the problem is they would be triggered too far from you. As a thief you need trap to be triggered just next to you or at your possition and i will tell you why. SHADOWSTEP. This is the mechanic that will drop target at your location and with wide thin trap you can make Shadowstepers to drop right on trap without delaing backstab or any kind of dmg to you. With round trap they would just spawn at your location you wuold get dmg AND they could also just dodge at the edge of the circle and trigger trap not getting dmg (like rangers traps can be dodged) and you would face enemy with no condis or whatever. The point of wide thin trap is they are harder to predict and they protect you.About that shadow trap i agree you guys might use it in a good way and it may be valid for you as a defensive system or as a trick enemy thing. But that takes dmg from you you are placing a backdoor at a utility slot which could be dealing dmg to your enemy. And we thieves are all about dmg. I agree it may be nice tool to play with but it really is useless in terms of dmg. And no i am not counting flanking enemy and then attacking him from behind as dmg because that is unreliable. You can get ganked when you port back. Someone you dont want to will trigger trap and you will appear in the mid of a zerg with 5 necros around you with epi on the floor and die instantly. It is maybe nice if it works out but it doesnt necesseraly have to work out. I can imagine when you roam it may be nice but in terms of combat it doesnt bring anything. which is why i would change it (just my point i get it that you like it)

@Jack Redline.5379 said:@MUDse.7623its a shame we cant show each other how we play trapper because from what i read you 'd play it VERY VERY differently than i play it and so you dont see what i mean and i dont see what you mean.i dont play trapper, i just use that trap situatioal i dont build around a trap tho. actually we did fight not long ago remember ? you were using traps but i wouldnt really call that way a trapper, you basically just while dodging around me tried to place the trap below me. an actual trapper would set up an ambush with them tho. the way you use it there is no reason of them being traps at all , they could be any type of attack actually a hit or projectile that devilers their effects would be far better for the way you used em.and thief is not all about damage. many thief builds for pvp modes have their majority of utilities for defensive use not mainly to deal damage, yet they might be used for that ( blinding powder and shadowstep the most commonly used thief utilities for pvp both can be used offensively and defensively)

@MUDse.7623 said:

i remember xD i know you dont play trapper it was for all ppl in forum xD AND the way i use traps is very useful in PVP. Especially when ppl are focused on capping points. I dont think that if you are a trapper you need to set up an anbush. Our thief traps have that i'd say advantage that they are just wide strips. You are able to TRAP a dude inside of a triangle or Square of just your traps and anywhere he moves he steps on trap trying to chase you down. Of course it is hard when you are perma stealthed and then pin me down with on or two shots cuz De OP but when you have different classes with different approaches the way i use it works on i will be honest 90% of them. I actually only have problems with Deadeyes. Because they break stun i do with Steal and then Impact strike and they dodge out of my trap i lay throwing themselves in stealth cuz Silent scope. And they then drop some other stealth and they shadow step and shoot me from a far. But that is only working beacuse i dont play stealth at all. I despise stealth tbh but anyone can play whatever. And i dont know why would anyone play thief defensifelly unless you guard Far in PVP then yes you can prepare ambush with traps etc. But in fight (which i am talking all the time about) Traps can be used way better and that is like real traps that will trap enemy inside you just build the Trap maze around him and he knocks down stumbles gets condis uses out all his stun breaks all his condi cleanses and then you just finish him off as a real thief would do it.I am too using enviroment just like you do but i use close enviroment and you use far beacsue you are camper De and i am DD brawler with traps. But both ways of using traps are okay, All i tried to say by this toppic is that Traps could use some love I gave opptions 1. Give some condis to Tripwire 2. Replace Shadow trap with boon stealing trap 3. give boon stealing to trait. Those are three options each of them would do a good deal of good for our traps the 3. one is my favorite atm. But anyway it would not change your gameplay so i dot know why you guys keep fighting for Shadow trap. You still coudl use other shadowstepping mechanics. I just dont know if you dont see my point or if i dont see yours (o.o) whoosh (oˇo)

Traps being circles would make them easier to land imo, as then there's less chance of people moving out of them before the arm time finishes. As to traps being obvious, that's why I use the heal weapon swap thing, it places a trap but looks like a straight weapon swap, so if people aren't paying attention to the sounds they'll often miss the trap altogether. Also just running works a treat, people stop paying attention and just chase spamming 1 half the time, then get salty when they hit a trap and you spam choking gas on them lol.

And when using traps I don't run stealth outside of trapper runes, I don't use SA or condi dodge either. These are mechanics that make condi thief easier to outplay imo. Full trailblazer with dash and shortbow used to be sufficient defence wise, less so these days.

If you want condi thief to kill a deadeye, try using impairing daggers with steal to spike then follow it up with a dodge for caltrops (helps overload cleanse) and choking gas spam. With DA trickery DD (so panic strike, potent poison, torment on interrupt etc) and draining sigil on shortbow that combo really packs a punch, and has the advantage of being way easier to land on a deadeye than traps. Condi dodge honestly doesn't have enough immediate spike to kill a thief with SA if he plays defensive.

i have a feeling you dont really understand what i am trying to tell you.you use a trap because of its effects, yet those effects being applied by a trap is not needed in the way you play. the nature of the skill could be different and a hit, projectile or straight area of effect with it would be way more practical for you.shadow trap is very unique skill that you cant just replace with other shaodwstepping. while the way you want to use traps doesnt need the nature of a trap. so why are you so set on it being a trap that applies your effects? i mean i am all for more boonrip options, but then in a more practical way midfight then a trap.

using a defensive utility doesnt mean your defensive.the main reason our fights were so onesided is not that i had stealth and range, it is that you had very little in terms of defense, your main defense is your offense but you are very vulnerable to counter pressure as you use your d/d and normal evades mainly as means to apply and not to avoid damage. you cant be a fulltime damage dealer as your opponent might try to deal damage too, so you no matter the build need options to avoid damage or get out of were you are. but that by no means does mean that your defensive, your just not playing PvE builds in PvP as that damage is overkill and you would lack the ability to avoid damage against non-AI opponent. tho in spvp a full offensive build would probably work better then in WvW as in spvp you mostly try to fight with a numbers advantage wich favors offense.

@MUDse.7623 said:

I understand what you mean and yes i am using traps for their effects. I mean that is the whole point of my build. My point is no other skill of mine as a thief would deal this effect which is very usefull for me. As far as the dodges and d/d 3 goes i dont necesserilly use them to apply condis yes i aim for the enemy but i am using them for evades, especially if target goes to stealth i have a ticking set in the moment target goes stealth i dodge/3 and then every three seconds i dodge/3 again to avoid stealth attack which i dont know when will come from where.I agree that you need to get out of fight if it is getting bad but man this is game you will respawn i dont see it as that much of a problem if i get defeated and killed. And i assure you i never go down easily thanks to those dodges and traps. Yes it might not seem like that in that duel. well yea it is De which is my really strong counter since i dont shadowstep or stealth. but as i said i know it is working beacuse i work with it every day. And yes in wvw it doesnt work that well that is why i play warior in wvw 8^) and thief in pvp. I just try to give some more utility/dmg to traps so they are more interesting i really dont mind how ppl will use it.You are looking at this too much from WvW perspective. It will really not affect you so much you play stealth De it is imposible to lay trap under you i saw that so i dont get why you disagree so much.And i want the traps being the thing that applies my effect because so far as the game developes i cant ask for anything else. If it would buff De it is bad. If it would buff DD it is bad. Anet doesnt buff Core builds because they want ppl to go for elites from now on.

So only thing these three have in comon are the basic tools we haveSignets = used mainly passively and there is no way we get improvement there and i wouldnt even want it they are fineTricks only one of them deals dmg = Caltrops and that is imo just fineStealth = no dmg dealing at all (i mean direct dmg dealing not like i will do stealth attack)Poisons = as far as we have noticed Anet doesnt want us to play fully condi builds they have decreased duration of poison, bleeding and everything, condi thief was being nerfed since i play this gameOnly thing that remains are Traps = they are skill that might deal dmg or CC and they are skills that can be used by everything core, DD and De and that is why i am aiming on those beacuse they are easily usable and can be a source of our dmg or utility building in PVP and WvW.Okay lets not touch your precious Shadow trap for a second because it is so valuable nobody could live without it. Remains Ambush, Tripwire and Needle trap.Needle trap is okay as it is and it wont be changedTripwire = i already said it could get improvement in form of dealing condi (beacuse reasons above)Ambush = this trap is maybe not that often used but is useful sometimes i do take it and especially as a De i lay it under my feet where i shoot and when someone comes and attacks me i use [shadowstep] port myself far from him and he is under attack by other thief. then i lay another one under my feet and when he comes he gets another thief attacking him and i got distraction.I dont know why my usage of traps would be bad. I will try to make a video to make it easier to see what i do and how i do it from some match or something. Wvw as we agreed is way to different from PVP. PvP is small field where you mostly fight for points very nice place for trapper. Wvw is vast landscape where you can just sit on the top of a hill and camp off everyone if you wish.This change would not harm any build and it would not overbuff us that is why i offered it. But y'all just telling me i am using traps wrong way. The way i use traps doesnt affect the fact it would be a + for everyone who wants to use traps.

îf you had just asked to rework tripwire and ambush i would have agreed right away as IMO both their effects do not justify their setup.i am not saying you are using your traps bad , i am sayin the fact those effects are traps is bad for the way you play. i mean just imagine instead of tripwire as a trap you use a skill with AoE unblockable knowckdown + cripple. thats alot better then using tripwire and then depending on your opponent to walk in without dodging it. waiting for the effect, you need to react to the traps trigger as it is in your opponents control, that is highly impractical and it would be alot better to have the effects when you want them to apply, wouldnt it? for all i care they could remove ice venom, skale venom, tripwire and ambush, put poisons and traps together in one category as those are all attacks that require a setup so they indirect. and then give us a full new skills category with utillity attacks.

@"MUDse.7623" said:îf you had just asked to rework tripwire and ambush i would have agreed right away as IMO both their effects do not justify their setup.i am not saying you are using your traps bad , i am sayin the fact those effects are traps is bad for the way you play. i mean just imagine instead of tripwire as a trap you use a skill with AoE unblockable knowckdown + cripple. thats alot better then using tripwire and then depending on your opponent to walk in without dodging it. waiting for the effect, you need to react to the traps trigger as it is in your opponents control, that is highly impractical and it would be alot better to have the effects when you want them to apply, wouldnt it? for all i care they could remove ice venom, skale venom, tripwire and ambush, put poisons and traps together in one category as those are all attacks that require a setup so they indirect. and then give us a full new skills category with utillity attacks.

sry but i will disagree with this. Traps and poisons belong to different categories and it is fine that they are as they are Traps could just use a bit of love thats all. And we dont have skills or attacks or traits that would replace traps and also we wont have them. Its one of those things i can tell wont happen like for example i wont chop off my fingers rn.Here is a link for a video i made. I fight a thief there i told him exactly what i play this was 5th take the fastest one i was fighting with him over and overa gain but he had not chance against it. Tomorow i post how i fought Elementalist with way more condi cleanse. It took longer but it was as well a win first try. Just so you could imagine why would i like the traps to be adjusted the way i said it.

Edit: here is the video against Ele

the ele plays air+arcane+weaver he doesnt have much condi remove.

as for you in the video, well you dont care for what i say anyway as i play mostly WvW and 'OP', regardless of me having a ton more experience than you in both modes*, i can just hope someone with more spvp credibility will explain to you why that is not good, cause apperantly you think your doing great right now. i assume your just not matched against opponents able to punish your build reliably, just the fact that you run without stunbreak should cause you to lose every fight against a good opponent.

*your pretty low rank in both and rank is mainly an indicator for playtime wich you need to gather experience.

@MUDse.7623 said:i use it regularly in every position that i know it wont bug. it is an anwesome tool to setup an ambush or to escape.if the LoS requirement was removed as it also has a valid path requirement or if the point you need a LoS too put higher above the trap so it is more reliable then it would be alot more useful.

Urgh, they need to just make it a true teleport and be done with it.If they won't make some kind of check if it's inside WvW walls, then so be it.Either split functionality (shadowstep in WvW and true teleport in PvP) or just allow Thieves re-infiltrate towers/keeps like Mesmers can.

Shadow Trap NEEDS to be fixed in PvP. It could literally change the state of Thiefing there if it were reliable.

@MUDse.7623 said:the ele plays air+arcane+weaver he doesnt have much condi remove.

as for you in the video, well you dont care for what i say anyway as i play mostly WvW and 'OP', regardless of me having a ton more experience than you in both modes*, i can just hope someone with more spvp credibility will explain to you why that is not good, cause apperantly you think your doing great right now. i assume your just not matched against opponents able to punish your build reliably, just the fact that you run without stunbreak should cause you to lose every fight against a good opponent.

*your pretty low rank in both and rank is mainly an indicator for playtime wich you need to gather experience.

yes i dont usually meet ppl that could beat me with this. Only thing i have problems with are Deadeyes sometimes very good condi mirage. But i thought that is the point of pvp. to win at the point so you keep it and get points (-.-) i didnt want to argue just to prove my point that even tho i dont use traps as they are lets say meant to be used they can be used this way and it is okay but fine after i reach plat (which should be matter of a few days since i am already T3 Gold somewhere near the very top) i will face more profficient opponents and i will see what gives. Dont be mad at me just cuz i think it works. i just see it does so i think it does.

No, I like the niche that Thief traps fill right now. They actually thematically fit and they all serve their purposes. If you want traps to be more like Ranger and DH ones, go play either of those two professions.Possibly going from the rectangular shape to circles, but I don't find that suitable considering the effect.

As for your little thing with MUDse, no hard feelings intended with what I'll be noting.Considering you apparently found MUDse's replies to be harsh (claiming he'd be mad with you, when he really isn't I think), so this might be worse in your experience. So, sorry for that in advance.

Problem with a trapper build such as yours (plus how you play it, judging from those videos) is that anyone with a decent amount of experience (or just general wit) won't get killed by it a second time anymore.In PvP they'll either use Range and Elevation (read, where you cannot shadowstep/steal to them) to comfortably wither you down. If they can just kill you like that and/or force your CD's like that (unlikely since you got no defensive utilities, but wahey), they'll be more than fine with you having the point a little while longer.Another option is that they'll simply be fine with you sitting on that node with your traps, because they can just rotate to either of the other two nodes/points to create advantageous fights there instead. You do only need two points to win, so not getting the third..? Big boohoo.

Not using something like a Stunbreaker (as Mudse pointed out too) will just make you an even easier kill. You could choose to not sit on a node (because noone in their right mind jumps into a trap voluntarily, so decent players will just stop coming to you on your terms), but as soon as you'd jump into a fight versus one or two players who actually know what you run, they can quite comfortably CC-chain you to your grave before you even get the chance to drop any traps. (The ele in your second video started out well, but didn't maintain CC+Pressure well enough, low ranks =/= less playtime =/= less expierence...).

Fact of the matter is however, is that most of the actual decent players, aren't actually playing anymore. All of sPvP (and WvW for that matter), is really just a big clownfiesta. We've come to a point in this game, where stuff is so ridiculously powercreeped, that you don't need to be a good player anymore, in order to get good scores.Because of this, people are just not as good at this game as they used to be. Just go and ask how many people you know actually do things like counting Dodges, keeping track of Steal CD... Hell, there's hardly any people who keep an eye on the minimap or keep track of who died where and when on the map (hence the often rather idiotic behavior of pushing far with 1-2 guys, after just winning mid, only to die ~2 v 4 against their respawns giving them a chance to get straight back into an evenly matched playing field).

Does that mean it's a good build though? Hell no.If we're on the Coliseum map, I could grab my Shortbow and kite using those boxes right next to the point and pew-pew you to death very comfortably. Or I would just force you to stay on that node by for example, using my out-of-combat access to stealth to briefly show myself and appear to be coming to your point, only to turn back and +1 on any of the other two nodes, maintaining map control.

So yes, because people don't need to know how to play, that sort of build works.Also, in your examples, there's consistently one huge mistake made by your enemies. It's that they fight you on your terms, when they got absolutely no reason to.

But hopefully this gave some insight, you've already mentioned some things like having issues with ranged opponents yourself and such, so I think you can piece together what the issues are.

Quick edit:I do agree that Shadow Trap should have the same way of teleporting that Portal does. It's just too damn unreliable right now, even at times where the trap or target is actually in Line of Sight.