The changes necro and reaper needs to be useful in both power and condi in pve.

Spite:Reaper's Might - Shroud skill 1 grants might. Increased damage while under the effects of might by 10%.Spiteful Talisman - Deal 10% damage to boonless enemies. Recharge of focus skills reduced by 20%.Dread - Increase axe skills damage by 10% and reduce skill recharge by 20%.

Curses:Chilling Darkness - remove the ICD of that trait.Lingering Curse - While wielding a scepter, your condition damage is increased by 150. Conditions inflicted by scepter skills have increased durations by 50%. Putrid Curse will boon corrupt only in PvE.

Soul Reaping:Strength of Undeath - You do more damage while above the life-force threshold. Maximum life force increased by 15%.PvE Version; Life Force: 75% Damage Increase: 15%, Life Force: 50% Damage Increase: 10%, Life Force: 25% Damage Increase: 5%PvP Version; Life Force: 75% Damage Increase: 7%, Life Force: 50% Damage Increase: 5%, Life Force: 25% Damage Increase: 3%Death Perception - Increases critical-hit chance by 20% and critical-damage by 20% while in shroud.

Blood Magic:Blood Bond - Increase 10% damage to bleeding targets.

Weapons:Focus:Reaper's Touch - Change the skill to send a black scythe blade to spin around you for 5s and deal damage around you within 300 Radius each second. hits up to 5 targets. Applies 2 stacks of vulnerability each hit.

Staff:1# - Hold your staff like a druid's auto attack shoot a dark green laser that applies poison for 6s that pulses 3 times. Enemies near the targets gets hit up to 2 targets. Range: 900.2# - Aim the area of effect on the ground and will do animation of knocking the tail of the staff on the ground to blast 2 stacks of torment and bleeding for 20s. Radius: 300, Range: 900.3# - Aim the area of effect you want to put on the ground but it'll do a spin animation of the staff like Revenant staff but send a green poison ball and decay enemies. First attack applies 4 stacks of poison for 7s. Pulses the area of effect for 5 seconds. Each pulse applies 1 stack of poison for 3s. Radius: 400, Range: 900.4# - Spin with your staff once and transfer up to 5 conditions to yer target enemy.5# - Aim the area of effect on the ground and will do animation of knocking the tail of the staff on the ground but with dark aura on your staff and apply fear for 1s and 5 stacks of confusions for 7s. Radius: 300, Range: 900.

Reaper

Reaper Shroud:Life Rend - Increase damage by 20%Life Slash - Increase damage by 25%Life Reap - Increase damage by 30%Soul Spiral - Remove poison effect from this skill in all modes and increase its damage by 40% in PvE.

Greatsword skills.Dusk Strike - Reduce activation skill to 0.33s, Increase damage by 20%Fading Twilight - Reduce activation skill to 0.33s, Increase damage by 20%Chilling Scythe - Reduce activation skill to 0.4s, Increase damage by 25%Gravedigger - Uses Guardian's Greatsword skill #2 but with dark green aura instead and won't recharge when hitting a foe under 50% health. Standing inside the hitbox does additional damage for the projectiles to hit.

"Chilled to the Bone!" - Make this skill unblockable and reduce activation time to 0.75s.

Reaper traits:Cold Shoulder - Chill lasts 20% longer, and chilled or vulnerable foes take more damage from your attacks by 10%.Deathly Chill - Chill applies 2 stacks of bleeding for 10s. Shroud skill 4 applies poison each hit.Decimate Defenses - Striking a foe with vulnerability increases your critical hit chance. Each stack increases 1% instead 2%.Reaper's Onslaught - Gain passive 300 ferocity while wielding a greatsword or in reaper's shroud. Hitting with Life Reap reduces the recharge of all shroud skills by 1s. Attack Speed Increase by 20% while in shroud.

Those are a lot of buffs and a new expac weapon. Are you sure it is all needed?

@Anchoku.8142 said:Those are a lot of buffs and a new expac weapon. Are you sure it is all needed?

It's not

@Anchoku.8142 said:Those are a lot of buffs and a new expac weapon. Are you sure it is all needed?

where's expansion weapon? staff? necro always had staff but its skills are horrible that doesn't fit in any pve aspect, no support, no condi and no power.

All of this and there isn't even a death shroud change... And I feel a sense of dejà vu with reaper shroud's change.

50k dps fotm?

Okay so there's some good ideas and not so good ideas. And a bit too many buffs, so lets go through them.Spite:Spiteful talisman is a good change, not sure about Reaper's Might, but reverting Unholy Fervor to its old form is bad. Whilst I don't like Dread, I much prefer being able to have the old UF damage baseline on axe and being able to take ST alongside Awaken the Pain.Curses:Whilst I've advocated for reverting the Chilling Darkness nerf for a long time now, I'd rather they just revamp Well of Darkness to make it useful without having to take this trait. I guess you weren't a fan of the Putrid Curse nerf, huh? I'm on the fence there.Soul Reaping:Why not just a straight up damage buff whilst in Shroud, for Strength of Undeath? This trait always vexed me as, to be able to fully utilitize it, you would have to stay out of shroud (or hop out before you went below 50%) which I found stupid. Unlike certain other in shroud trait damage buffs /cough cough Reaper's Onslaught/, I'd be fine with this being a shroud damage buff since it is in the main shroud traitline. I guess I'm just of the mind that Blood should be the go-to pve damage line and Soul Reaping the go-to pvp line.Blood:Yay my idea but even more damage! Seriously, this needs to happen and make Blood bond worth taking as the go-to first damage trait of Blood.Focus:Not a fan of the close range change. The idea would be better suited for warhorn as it is our close range offhand. Focus is or should be about single target range damage.Staff:I use staff a lot already, and I'm happy with the way it works. Buffs to the current setup I'd be happy with but these ideas, nope.Reaper's Shroud:I think the damage on the skills are currently fine (since in power reaper's current rotation, auto and 4 feature prominently). It's the trait modifiers we need really.Greatsword:GS auto same as rs auto. The problem with Gravedigger is it is like a dictator. If you want to remove it we need something adequate to replace it, since it is the thing that is holding our damage as high as it is currently. And I've always been against the idea of extra damage from being inside a foe or having a larger hitbox gimmick. A single skill should do the same damage, so long as it hits regardless of this.Chilled to the Bone:I mean we already have a shout that grants us unblockable for 4 to 9 seconds. I'd rather just remove the cast time on NCSY instead. 2 birds with 1 stone.Reaper traits:Kind of against the cold shoulder change, since we'd no longer need to bother applying chill since vuln is so plentiful. Not a fan of the Decimate Defenses nerf, but then it makes sense with the other changes. And I just prefer the "15 ferocity per might stack on you (10 in pvp/wvw) version of Reaper's Onslaught really, but your version has been the closest thing I've liked to it.

Way too much damage multpliers.

If we sum these suggestions up we end up at a ~70% dps increase on a spite/blood/reaper build resulting in somewhat around 45k dps. "A bit" too much.

bumping.......

@Draco.9480 said:Reaper's Might - Shroud skill 1 grants might. Increased damage while under the effects of might by 10%.That's half of close to death and its only minor tier 1, Instead make close to death to grant perma 10% and double it when below 50% is more acceptable instead of this.

Strength of Undeath - You do more damage while above the life-force threshold. Maximum life force increased by 15%.PvE Version; Life Force: 75% Damage Increase: 15%, Life Force: 50% Damage Increase: 10%, Life Force: 25% Damage Increase: 5%Again for a minor trait these numbers are too high. modifier stay the same and maybe either lower the threshold to 33% or let it starts scaling down linearly after 50% sounds better to me.

Death Perception - Increases critical-hit chance by 20% and critical-damage by 20% while in shroud.Decimate Defenses - Striking a foe with vulnerability increases your critical hit chance. Each stack increases 1% instead 2%.i like this idea. both compliments eachother and make fury to not a waste boon too. lower the crit damage numbers a lil bit would be better.

Blood Bond - Increase 10% damage to bleeding targets.You just add a modifier with a random whopping 10% on a healing/utility line. vampiric presence enough is carrying the blood magic line so i dont thnk we need it at all.

honestly you'll get swear by players if you actually make these unbalanced things real.

That Death Perception and Decimate Defenses changes are damning for the Valkyrie/Shroud SR-Reaper in the PvP modes.

The rest seems completely overpowered without substantial splitting, and OP doesn't seem to understand how damage modifiers work at all.

No thanks.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:That Death Perception and Decimate Defenses changes are damning for the Valkyrie/Shroud SR-Reaper in the PvP modes.

The rest seems completely overpowered without substantial splitting, and OP doesn't seem to understand how damage modifiers work at all.

No thanks.

I understand much better than you. It's not OP at all. no one cares about valkyrie shroud builds cuz they're bad anyway. sitting in shroud is unrealistic and also a dps lose even if you can sit in shroud 24/7. power reaper is in a bad spot in terms of dps.

@Harubpunbaru.3260 said:

@Draco.9480 said:Reaper's Might - Shroud skill 1 grants might. Increased damage while under the effects of might by 10%.That's half of close to death and its only minor tier 1, Instead make close to death to grant perma 10% and double it when below 50% is more acceptable instead of this.

Strength of Undeath - You do more damage while above the life-force threshold. Maximum life force increased by 15%.PvE Version; Life Force: 75% Damage Increase: 15%, Life Force: 50% Damage Increase: 10%, Life Force: 25% Damage Increase: 5%Again for a minor trait these numbers are too high. modifier stay the same and maybe either lower the threshold to 33% or let it starts scaling down linearly after 50% sounds better to me.

Death Perception - Increases critical-hit chance by 20% and critical-damage by 20% while in shroud.Decimate Defenses - Striking a foe with vulnerability increases your critical hit chance. Each stack increases 1% instead 2%.i like this idea. both compliments eachother and make fury to not a waste boon too. lower the crit damage numbers a lil bit would be better.

Blood Bond - Increase 10% damage to bleeding targets.You just add a modifier with a random whopping 10% on a healing/utility line. vampiric presence enough is carrying the blood magic line so i dont thnk we need it at all.

I don't care, people will complain about everything all the time.

@Draco.9480 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:That Death Perception and Decimate Defenses changes are damning for the Valkyrie/Shroud SR-Reaper in the PvP modes.

The rest seems completely overpowered without substantial splitting, and OP doesn't seem to understand how damage modifiers work at all.

No thanks.

Present your math.

@Draco.9480 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:That Death Perception and Decimate Defenses changes are damning for the Valkyrie/Shroud SR-Reaper in the PvP modes.

The rest seems completely overpowered without substantial splitting, and OP doesn't seem to understand how damage modifiers work at all.

No thanks.

My post wasn't even about PvE lmao. DPS means absolutely nothing in the PvP modes; your scaling is borked to hell and back to the point I'd be one-shotting things with shroud AA's...

And they still bork build diversity. So... what does this accomplish outside of making the reaper completely busted?

@Draco.9480 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:That Death Perception and Decimate Defenses changes are damning for the Valkyrie/Shroud SR-Reaper in the PvP modes.

The rest seems completely overpowered without substantial splitting, and OP doesn't seem to understand how damage modifiers work at all.

No thanks.

In raid setting valkyrie build can get 100% crit chance all the time if you're reaper. 50% from decimate defenses, 12% from base crit chance + sigil of accuracy. Then 20% from fury, 15% from warrior and ranger buffs. 97% crit chance right there. Bit extra from infusions, foods, runes..you name it and voila.

So yeah, Valkyrie builds matter. As do Crusader, Marauder and some others. Being able to use many seemingly underdog stat sets to a great result (hi apothecary/settler scourge) is part of necro's identity, thanks to his huge pool of free stats hidden in traits.

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@Draco.9480 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:That Death Perception and Decimate Defenses changes are damning for the Valkyrie/Shroud SR-Reaper in the PvP modes.

The rest seems completely overpowered without substantial splitting, and OP doesn't seem to understand how damage modifiers work at all.

No thanks.

those stats won't help you at all. all those crit chance in traits should be nerf and boost damage instead. accuracy sigil is a waste when you can use impact in fracs/kc or air in raids. i prefer to use berserker gear. vitality and toughness won't help me at all and never needed it. always survived with full berserker reaper anywhere in pve.

Well that's you. Not every necro can say that, and since vitality = larger lifeforce pool as a bonus, valkyrie builds aren't pointless.And also if that sigil of accuracy hurts your eyesight to much, you can always use berserker gear here and there instead of valk to get that missing 7% crit, keeping rest valkyrie. Nothing lost, and some sustain gained!

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:Well that's you. Not every necro can say that, and since vitality = larger lifeforce pool as a bonus, valkyrie builds aren't pointless.And also if that sigil of accuracy hurts your eyesight to much, you can always use berserker gear here and there instead of valk to get that missing 7% crit, keeping rest valkyrie. Nothing lost, and some sustain gained!

In raids?

Raids is like 50% crit from trait.20 % from fury170 precision from banner (should be around 8% crit)

So you need only 22 % crit chance to have 100%

We already have 5% base so we need another 17%

You get 100 extra power from sharpening stone if you fill up with valkyrie which will result in 25.5k health.On full zerker you get 110power on 19k health

But let's look into the reaper rotation and traits. We have no trait that gives us % dmg for having more lifeforce.But we get more dmg from VP as we can stay longer in shroud.But It also gets harder for the druid to heal you up, so you might loose the scholar bonus.

Now lets go to the below 50 % rotation. Gravedigger spam, where you don't want to use shroud.

So you loose 10 power and gain nothing for it. Gs2 tooltip dmg 3598

On the valkyrie build it's 3573. So you definetly loose DPS.

For a raid beginner, this might be fine. But for experienced raiders, it's not

I'm gonna challenge you notion Nimon.

1. you didn't mention spotter in your calculations. Another free 7% crit in raid.
2. I lose 10 power and gain around 9k hp and ~ 70%-80% of that in life force pool.
3. Scholar bonus is tricky. On one hand if you screw up and eat big damage, then true, it will take time to get back up to full health. On the other a good necro should not screw up. If we assume you avoid big fat killing moves as you should, then it's simply a matter of healer outhealing the small, yet unavoidable damage. If he's doing that you'll be at full health, and it'll take more damage to knock you off the >90% hp state. Also shroud shields your hp, so more life force = longer shroud uptime = longer time your >90% health condition is met and safeguarded.
4. we're having this convo just outta boredom i think. A pro group, that needs a pro necro that values 10 power over survival does not exist. Because pro groups don't take necros since your damage is still below 30k mark no matter how you flex your muscles. Not so pro ones on the other hand may need a beefier player with ability to quickly ress the rest when things go south, instead of getting downed along with the rest.

@"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:I'm gonna challenge you notion Nimon.

1. you didn't mention spotter in your calculations. Another free 7% crit in raid.

Not mentionable. Cause very good groups will only run one druid.

2. I lose 10 power and gain around 9k hp and ~ 70%-80% of that in life force pool.

6k yes. But that only lets you survive the arena tick better.

3. Scholar bonus is tricky. On one hand if you screw up and eat big damage, then true, it will take time to get back up to full health. On the other a good necro should not screw up. If we assume you avoid big fat killing moves as you should, then it's simply a matter of healer outhealing the small, yet unavoidable damage. If he's doing that you'll be at full health, and it'll take more damage to knock you off the >90% hp state. Also shroud shields your hp, so more life force = longer shroud uptime = longer time your >90% health condition is met and safeguarded.

But then what about the below 50%? You don't profit from high hp there. You even loose more DPS. Does the pre 50 make up for that?

The difference gets higher the more % bonuses you get.

1. From runes and sigils
2. From class buffs and traits
3. From crits

Runes and sigils: 15%Spirit: 5% (20% below 50)Crits: was 225% if I remember correctly.

Ok let's make this simple

One does 100 dmg, the other 95 with 200%dmg bonus this gets to 200 and 190.

So if necro was viable DPS, and I is a good group, and you are a good necro. Berserker would be meta.

4. we're having this convo just outta boredom i think. A pro group, that needs a pro necro that values 10 power over survival does not exist. Because pro groups don't take necros since your damage is still below 30k mark no matter how you flex your muscles. Not so pro ones on the other hand may need a beefier player with ability to quickly ress the rest when things go south, instead of getting downed along with the rest.

Yeah. However. If other classes didn't have a rezz trait like the Geysir one or the pet rezz from druidAnd if a boss encounter would down a player, putting a very hard hitting are around him, and only then, Valkyrie would be better.Or when your group is bad.

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@Draco.9480 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:That Death Perception and Decimate Defenses changes are damning for the Valkyrie/Shroud SR-Reaper in the PvP modes.

The rest seems completely overpowered without substantial splitting, and OP doesn't seem to understand how damage modifiers work at all.

No thanks.

Valkyrie pve builds died the day they nerfed the vitality converting food.

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@Draco.9480 said:

@"DeceiverX.8361" said:That Death Perception and Decimate Defenses changes are damning for the Valkyrie/Shroud SR-Reaper in the PvP modes.

The rest seems completely overpowered without substantial splitting, and OP doesn't seem to understand how damage modifiers work at all.

No thanks.

"if" we would have a trait that converts vitality into power or ferocity... it could be a thing again. but what am i talking about? if necro gets that, reaper probably loses the 300 ferocity in shroud (or anything !remotely! useful to get an overall boost of 1,3%. not to speak of losing something fundamental for a very little boost...edit just for nitpicking reasons). so... dreaming again :3

@Aetatis.5418 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@Draco.9480 said:

@"DeceiverX.8361" said:That Death Perception and Decimate Defenses changes are damning for the Valkyrie/Shroud SR-Reaper in the PvP modes.

The rest seems completely overpowered without substantial splitting, and OP doesn't seem to understand how damage modifiers work at all.

No thanks.

Deadly Strength is a horrifying example of providing a small compensation for a terribad build.

While I agree with OP's general sentiment, I personally prefer a more... restrained approach. Something like:

1. Signet passives now persist while in Shroud without Signets of Suffering (as it should have been from release).
2. Siphoned Power: Gain might when you strike a foe below the health threshold (1s ICD). Gain a stack of Siphoned Power (2% damage for 10s) when you grant yourself might, stacking up to five times.
3. Strength of Undeath: Increase maximum Life Force by 15%. Deal increased damage and condition damage to targets proportional to your remaining Life Force (0%, 3%, 5%, 7% @ 0-25, 25-50, 50-75, 75-100).
4. Death Perception: Increases critical-hit chance while in shroud. Gain ferocity based on a percentage of your precision (14%).
5. Dhuumfire: Shroud skill 1 inflicts burning on your target. Burning you inflict deals more damage (15%).
6. Demonic Lore: Torment you inflict deals increased damage and causes your foes to burn. This trait can only inflict burning on a particular target once every second (3 seconds in PvP/WvW).