Ele Is Still Trash Btw

It's been 10 months since ele has had any spot in the meta. From having temporary sage builds in the beginning of PoF (to condi ele being nerfed... (while in the same patch condi mes was buffed)) to temporary 1 shot berserk fresh air weavers (that was already very weak compared to guardian and mesmer, but it was nerfed unlike those two anyway, causing it to be non-existent in the meta now, unlike those two) to this trash menders weaver build (whose only claim to fame is the fact that it's a good side noder, when in reality all it does well is bunker when there are other classes that bunker orders of magnitude better, like firebrand and spellbreaker. The most charming aspect of menders weaver is the most mundane aspect of firebrand. Not to mention ele does worse than spellbreaker due to ele being so vulnerable to good +1 classes unlike spellbreaker, and it doing exponentially less damage than spellbreaker in general.). Let's examine why.

Ele has mediocre mobility and damage, making it a horrid +1. The fact of its mediocre damage and terrible multi-target damage (or aoe) makes it a non-existent team fighter. It has no support capability so it cannot fit in a support role, and if you go tempest you are much more vulnerable than a firebrand and you do less heals anyway. It has horrid condi damage so it cannot counter classes with low condition cleanse. It has no ranged potential, so it cannot counter classes who are weak to ranged attacks nor can it make crucial ranged attack plays. It has no stealth. The ONLY way to naturally get quickness (I use naturally to mean using only the class mechanics, no external runes/sigils or condition conversion) is by using Lightning Leap on Conjure Lightning Hammer, so the cleave is terrible (it's also terrible due to weak AoE damage). It has no natural way to gain alacrity, No natural way to gain resistance. No natural way to gain aegis. And no way to gain and maintain large amounts of might like: Warrior, Engineer, Necromancer, Revenant, Ranger. No way to gain and maintain large amount of vulnerability like: Mesmer, Necromancer, Revenant. All in all, it's the jack of one trade, bunkering, and the master of none.

Before any more interesting and 'creative' changes to classes like was most recently done with focus on guardian and sword offhand on revenant, and changes that revitalized certain builds like condition engineer and buffed already strong builds like marksmanship soulbeast, please take a moment to realize that there has been one class who has consistently been under-performing AT LEAST since the launch of PoF, having no meta builds at all (and if you take into account the fact it's the only class who hasn't had a meta role that is focused on damage (like engineer/spellbreaker tier roamer or guardian/mesmer tier +1) since the launch of HoT, that's also a mistake) maybe it's time to give ele REAL buffs. It has been nerfed every major patch, and has been consistently trash tier and complained about for all this time. Maybe it's time to look at the Fire specialization and wonder why it's been so many years since it's seen any play. Maybe it's time to look at the Earth specialization and understand that out of twelve traits that can be chosen, only three are actually any good and 2 of those three can't be used at the same time.

For the love of god, just make elementalist not terrible FOR ONCE. There are sooooooooooo many elementalist mains I know personally (myself included) who absolutely hate playing the class against other players now.

Now that the PvE'ers are also crying about ele maybe we will finally get some relevant buffs.

The way ele traits are organzied make its really hard to craft a decent build.Like - at least for weaver - you HAVE to take arcane.Fire in general is a pretty trashy traitline for pvp.that leaves us with water, air and earth....2 of which are defensive and offer next to no offense.

also the fact that revs, necros engies, etc etc have better mightstacking capabilites without any proactive contribution whatsoever is really sad.

@Zenix.6198 said:Now that the PvE'ers are also crying about ele maybe we will finally get some relevant buffs.

The way ele traits are organzied make its really hard to craft a decent build.Like - at least for weaver - you HAVE to take arcane.Fire in general is a pretty trashy traitline for pvp.that leaves us with water, air and earth....2 of which are defensive and offer next to no offense.

also the fact that revs, necros engies, etc etc have better mightstacking capabilites without any proactive contribution whatsoever is really sad.

Yeah I agree with that. The thing is there'll probably be some staff buffs instead of anything anyone will ever use in sPvP.

Inb4 shatterstone buff.

Eles need a lot of love to not be complete garbage now, though. I am also an ele main, but I'm not really playing my ele now because it's just a burden on myself and everyone I play with. I switched to guardian for now until ele becomes relevant again.

@Poelala.2830 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:Now that the PvE'ers are also crying about ele maybe we will finally get some relevant buffs.

The way ele traits are organzied make its really hard to craft a decent build.Like - at least for weaver - you HAVE to take arcane.Fire in general is a pretty trashy traitline for pvp.that leaves us with water, air and earth....2 of which are defensive and offer next to no offense.

also the fact that revs, necros engies, etc etc have better mightstacking capabilites without any proactive contribution whatsoever is really sad.

I actually think it will be the opposite.With all the staff nerfs I feel like anet wants ele's to move off staff (at least in PvE since the weapons does almost see no play in pvp anyway)So I for one am expecting sword and potentially even dagger buffs.

But some number tweaks on the repsective weapons alone wont do much good imo unless they make some functionality changes as well.Just imagine having fury on some weaponskills instead of having to commit to an entire traitline for it.

@Kako.1930 said:Inb4 shatterstone buff.

Eles need a lot of love to not be complete garbage now, though. I am also an ele main, but I'm not really playing my ele now because it's just a burden on myself and everyone I play with. I switched to guardian for now until ele becomes relevant again.

@Kako.1930 said:Inb4 shatterstone buff.

Eles need a lot of love to not be complete garbage now, though. I am also an ele main, but I'm not really playing my ele now because it's just a burden on myself and everyone I play with. I switched to guardian for now until ele becomes relevant again.

Similar story for me. After I officially was done with elementalist I started playing 6 other classes instead, where I would have just played elementalist exclusively. I think if elementalist ever becomes a top tier class I'd play that and that only.

The staff and storms nerf was a bit much. dmg reduc per hit? I think every multi hit skill on every class should have that now.However ele is meant to be a hybrid. from the beginning anet has always wanted to stay away from the holy trinity. However they created it anyways with the introduction of HoT and Pof. The thing is, their healing has been nerfed because too much sustain for them, their condi has been nerfed, because it was too strong, now DPS on AoE skills.

Ele is supposed to be a rewarding experience once mastered. however, it's more of a dead weight now since all the other classes do what ele does but better. Balance I guess. i know there is a better way for me to say it, I just don't know how without coming off like im upset - which i am since im an ele main in WvW and PvE raids - and I've been asked to play something else to keep up with the meta. Sad.

@Kako.1930 said:Inb4 shatterstone buff.

(...)

Buff Shatt-... damn you!

Ele could need a rework. Core will be neglected, but tempest and weaver do need one. But well, guess what, the next reworks goes to... renegade! Yehaaaw!

I don't agree with this but I can't be mad if the narrative continues that ele is trash so I can get buffs!

I've not participated in 5v5 organized competitive play so I can't say anything solid on it but my take based on team fight and 1v1 experience so far is that it is at the very least close to being optimal at both roles. I feel very strong in team fights and with the right build I can 1v1 everything except that overtuned soulbeast paladins amulet axe build, which can be stalemated with the water trait line but once I take water trait line instead of air I mostly stalemate everything rather than killing them.

In solo queue I feel quite strong. I think I'm top 5 right now on NA. I've been able to adjust the build based on the new meta and am able to punish the popular classes like reaper and revenant that have low condition cleanse with burns from glyph of elemental power with celestial amulet for toughness to help me tank their damage. If the meta goes back to scourge/condi mes/condi thief I can go back to lightning flash and menders amulet. The fact that I'm very strong in 1v1s and team fights as well as kiting, map mobility, and delaying 2v1s for a decent amount makes me useful pretty much anywhere I go. It's just a matter of learning your limits and how to be effective against each spec and class and I think you'll find Lightning Rod Weaver to be a monster in solo queue.

This is only weaver though. Every weapon that's not sword needs a lot to a tremendous amount of help to be good and because of that also tempest and core ele since they cannot take Sword.

@Phantaram.1265 said:I don't agree with this but I can't be mad if the narrative continues that ele is trash so I can get buffs!

I've not participated in 5v5 organized competitive play so I can't say anything solid on it but my take based on team fight and 1v1 experience so far is that it is at the very least close to being optimal at both roles. I feel very strong in team fights and with the right build I can 1v1 everything except that overtuned soulbeast paladins amulet axe build, which can be stalemated with the water trait line but once I take water trait line instead of air I mostly stalemate everything rather than killing them.

In solo queue I feel quite strong. I think I'm top 5 right now on NA. I've been able to adjust the build based on the new meta and am able to punish the popular classes like reaper and revenant that have low condition cleanse with burns from glyph of elemental power with celestial amulet for toughness to help me tank their damage. If the meta goes back to scourge/condi mes/condi thief I can go back to lightning flash and menders amulet. The fact that I'm very strong in 1v1s and team fights as well as kiting, map mobility, and delaying 2v1s for a decent amount makes me useful pretty much anywhere I go. It's just a matter of learning your limits and how to be effective against each spec and class and I think you'll find Lightning Rod Weaver to be a monster in solo queue.

This is only weaver though. Every weapon that's not sword needs a lot to a tremendous amount of help to be good and because of that also tempest and core ele since they cannot take Sword.

I play about seven classes and I'll take you up on your being able to 1v1 almost anything. About the team fight part of what you said: I still whole-heartedly disagree. You don't do a lot of damage at all, nor do you have a lot of CC or any real AoE in team fights to do a lot of damage. When it comes to things I want in my team fight, the list goes: Firebrand, Scourge, Core Guardian, Reaper, Holosmith, Revenant, Spellbreaker, Mirage, Ranger, Elementalist, Thief.

Ele is my passion, ele is my life....in pvp ele has no role, doesnt exceed or even be considered decent in any category (healing, damage, bunker, mobility, support, all extremely subpar). I hope the team does alittle buffing. Like returing static discharge and tempest defence back to it orginal form befor the march-may patches (i dont remeber the exact one it was around that time they nerfed fa ele)

@Phantaram.1265 said:I don't agree with this but I can't be mad if the narrative continues that ele is trash so I can get buffs!

I've not participated in 5v5 organized competitive play so I can't say anything solid on it but my take based on team fight and 1v1 experience so far is that it is at the very least close to being optimal at both roles. I feel very strong in team fights and with the right build I can 1v1 everything except that overtuned soulbeast paladins amulet axe build, which can be stalemated with the water trait line but once I take water trait line instead of air I mostly stalemate everything rather than killing them.

In solo queue I feel quite strong. I think I'm top 5 right now on NA. I've been able to adjust the build based on the new meta and am able to punish the popular classes like reaper and revenant that have low condition cleanse with burns from glyph of elemental power with celestial amulet for toughness to help me tank their damage. If the meta goes back to scourge/condi mes/condi thief I can go back to lightning flash and menders amulet. The fact that I'm very strong in 1v1s and team fights as well as kiting, map mobility, and delaying 2v1s for a decent amount makes me useful pretty much anywhere I go. It's just a matter of learning your limits and how to be effective against each spec and class and I think you'll find Lightning Rod Weaver to be a monster in solo queue.

This is only weaver though. Every weapon that's not sword needs a lot to a tremendous amount of help to be good and because of that also tempest and core ele since they cannot take Sword.

Dont you like, play nothing but mending weaver to get that top 5 placement? Op mentions that mending weaver is fine. But that all it can do medicore bunkering.

Also i feel u can get top 10 on any class...u that kind of good.

@Eddbopkins.2630 No, I’m pretty sure he has even shown himself playing multiple builds on stream in ranked play. Sometimes he runs menders weaver, but other times he runs celestial and whatnot.

Tempest and core ele could definitely use some work, but I’m hesitant to say anything on weaver. The last thing I want to see is a high damage weaver with its current sustain.

you can keep asking for buffs but it might better to just stop asking for them based on how the balance team always like to buff something but then simultneously think that they need to nerf something else to compensate, and for some reason, whenever it comes to eles, they are always very good at making inconsequential buffs such as applying it to useless skills or making tiny changes to useful ones while nerfing other useful skills massively with the end result being a overall nerf

With the recent stuff up with meteor shower hitting glass cannons for 10k or so, it's fairly safe to assume that the community prefers elementalist to be nothing more than a target.

I'd give a water field but now all the classes can do that better too.

@Phantaram.1265 said:I don't agree with this but I can't be mad if the narrative continues that ele is trash so I can get buffs!

I've not participated in 5v5 organized competitive play so I can't say anything solid on it but my take based on team fight and 1v1 experience so far is that it is at the very least close to being optimal at both roles. I feel very strong in team fights and with the right build I can 1v1 everything except that overtuned soulbeast paladins amulet axe build, which can be stalemated with the water trait line but once I take water trait line instead of air I mostly stalemate everything rather than killing them.

In solo queue I feel quite strong. I think I'm top 5 right now on NA. I've been able to adjust the build based on the new meta and am able to punish the popular classes like reaper and revenant that have low condition cleanse with burns from glyph of elemental power with celestial amulet for toughness to help me tank their damage. If the meta goes back to scourge/condi mes/condi thief I can go back to lightning flash and menders amulet. The fact that I'm very strong in 1v1s and team fights as well as kiting, map mobility, and delaying 2v1s for a decent amount makes me useful pretty much anywhere I go. It's just a matter of learning your limits and how to be effective against each spec and class and I think you'll find Lightning Rod Weaver to be a monster in solo queue.

This is only weaver though. Every weapon that's not sword needs a lot to a tremendous amount of help to be good and because of that also tempest and core ele since they cannot take Sword.

I've had to 1v1 you a few times this season I think on spellbreaker and power soulbeast. I could only stalemate you on spellbreaker and you absolutely rekt my soulbeast. Played correctly, weaver is very oppressive on point, but you're also not most ele players. The skill floor to truly be effective on weaver is still a little too high imo, that and something needs to happen with other ele weapons. I don't think it would take much for weaver to overtake spellbreaker as the #1 bruiser (it might already be), just like d/d ele replaced warrior.

Hear me out here... what if they replaced the Focus #5 skill in Fire -- currently a terrible #5 skill that literally just gives you a fire shield -- with a totally new skill. Perhaps they could make it something like a damage-over-time ability that pulses out damage. They could make it last, idk, maybe something like 6 seconds? And they can make it so you can cast it from 1200 range

Ele is one of the best targets. In many games, whenever I disengage from a bad teamfight, I'm chased through every corner of the map by Rev, War, and Ranger mostly. Playing in Khylo feels like Benny hill. Or maybe I'm too pretty.

Ele is op man, the power staff rezz build and sword weaver are very strong right now, just take the time to play it and you’ll wreck everyone in pvp like i see all the time. Arcane and water need to be mandatory otherwise there would be too much build diversity on this insane class(you guys can swap to 4 different weapon sets while the rest of us only have 2 sets). Only thing ele need rn is another buff to shatterstone since its one of the worst utilities ive ever seen.

well i did used to enjoy sneaking up on a point and nuking it as staff ele,apparently Anet don't want us to play ele...which is a shame since ele has been my main class since my first day in GW1 13 years ago...40% damage nerf to Lava font, because it was (apparently) too good in PvE, thanks Anet.

@Phantaram.1265 said:I don't agree with this but I can't be mad if the narrative continues that ele is trash so I can get buffs!

I've not participated in 5v5 organized competitive play so I can't say anything solid on it but my take based on team fight and 1v1 experience so far is that it is at the very least close to being optimal at both roles. I feel very strong in team fights and with the right build I can 1v1 everything except that overtuned soulbeast paladins amulet axe build, which can be stalemated with the water trait line but once I take water trait line instead of air I mostly stalemate everything rather than killing them.

In solo queue I feel quite strong. I think I'm top 5 right now on NA. I've been able to adjust the build based on the new meta and am able to punish the popular classes like reaper and revenant that have low condition cleanse with burns from glyph of elemental power with celestial amulet for toughness to help me tank their damage. If the meta goes back to scourge/condi mes/condi thief I can go back to lightning flash and menders amulet. The fact that I'm very strong in 1v1s and team fights as well as kiting, map mobility, and delaying 2v1s for a decent amount makes me useful pretty much anywhere I go. It's just a matter of learning your limits and how to be effective against each spec and class and I think you'll find Lightning Rod Weaver to be a monster in solo queue.

This is only weaver though. Every weapon that's not sword needs a lot to a tremendous amount of help to be good and because of that also tempest and core ele since they cannot take Sword.

You are in the top couple of percentage points of players skill wise I think its addled your perception your skill level allowing you to be more effective then most players on better classes. Ele would not be selected for automateds unless the player playing it was known to be so good they could perform better then someone else available on another class or it was friends goofing around. Thats not to say weaver is worthless its just not top tier. So it stands to reason, in my opinion, if a class wouldn't be the first choice for group play in any role it needs buffs of some sort.

@eksn.7264 said:

@Phantaram.1265 said:I don't agree with this but I can't be mad if the narrative continues that ele is trash so I can get buffs!

I've not participated in 5v5 organized competitive play so I can't say anything solid on it but my take based on team fight and 1v1 experience so far is that it is at the very least close to being optimal at both roles. I feel very strong in team fights and with the right build I can 1v1 everything except that overtuned soulbeast paladins amulet axe build, which can be stalemated with the water trait line but once I take water trait line instead of air I mostly stalemate everything rather than killing them.

In solo queue I feel quite strong. I think I'm top 5 right now on NA. I've been able to adjust the build based on the new meta and am able to punish the popular classes like reaper and revenant that have low condition cleanse with burns from glyph of elemental power with celestial amulet for toughness to help me tank their damage. If the meta goes back to scourge/condi mes/condi thief I can go back to lightning flash and menders amulet. The fact that I'm very strong in 1v1s and team fights as well as kiting, map mobility, and delaying 2v1s for a decent amount makes me useful pretty much anywhere I go. It's just a matter of learning your limits and how to be effective against each spec and class and I think you'll find Lightning Rod Weaver to be a monster in solo queue.

This is only weaver though. Every weapon that's not sword needs a lot to a tremendous amount of help to be good and because of that also tempest and core ele since they cannot take Sword.

He is most likely just a better player then you are even though Spell Breaker is better then Weaver he can stalemate you. He has been a part of world class teams in the past when this game had a much large player base and more good players.

@kipthelip.5802 said:

@eksn.7264 said:

@Phantaram.1265 said:I don't agree with this but I can't be mad if the narrative continues that ele is trash so I can get buffs!

I've not participated in 5v5 organized competitive play so I can't say anything solid on it but my take based on team fight and 1v1 experience so far is that it is at the very least close to being optimal at both roles. I feel very strong in team fights and with the right build I can 1v1 everything except that overtuned soulbeast paladins amulet axe build, which can be stalemated with the water trait line but once I take water trait line instead of air I mostly stalemate everything rather than killing them.

In solo queue I feel quite strong. I think I'm top 5 right now on NA. I've been able to adjust the build based on the new meta and am able to punish the popular classes like reaper and revenant that have low condition cleanse with burns from glyph of elemental power with celestial amulet for toughness to help me tank their damage. If the meta goes back to scourge/condi mes/condi thief I can go back to lightning flash and menders amulet. The fact that I'm very strong in 1v1s and team fights as well as kiting, map mobility, and delaying 2v1s for a decent amount makes me useful pretty much anywhere I go. It's just a matter of learning your limits and how to be effective against each spec and class and I think you'll find Lightning Rod Weaver to be a monster in solo queue.

This is only weaver though. Every weapon that's not sword needs a lot to a tremendous amount of help to be good and because of that also tempest and core ele since they cannot take Sword.

Yes I know who he is and yes he’s 100% the better player. I’m not the best warrior, but I’m up there with many thousands of hours with the class. I don’t think even the best warriors have a free win against him though. I still maintain that sword weaver is very close to being the #1 bruiser, if not already if played to the level of Phantaram. It’s a much more balanced spec when it comes to both pushing sides and teamfight participation compared to spellbreaker.

@eksn.7264 said:

@kipthelip.5802 said:

@eksn.7264 said:

@Phantaram.1265 said:I don't agree with this but I can't be mad if the narrative continues that ele is trash so I can get buffs!

I've not participated in 5v5 organized competitive play so I can't say anything solid on it but my take based on team fight and 1v1 experience so far is that it is at the very least close to being optimal at both roles. I feel very strong in team fights and with the right build I can 1v1 everything except that overtuned soulbeast paladins amulet axe build, which can be stalemated with the water trait line but once I take water trait line instead of air I mostly stalemate everything rather than killing them.

In solo queue I feel quite strong. I think I'm top 5 right now on NA. I've been able to adjust the build based on the new meta and am able to punish the popular classes like reaper and revenant that have low condition cleanse with burns from glyph of elemental power with celestial amulet for toughness to help me tank their damage. If the meta goes back to scourge/condi mes/condi thief I can go back to lightning flash and menders amulet. The fact that I'm very strong in 1v1s and team fights as well as kiting, map mobility, and delaying 2v1s for a decent amount makes me useful pretty much anywhere I go. It's just a matter of learning your limits and how to be effective against each spec and class and I think you'll find Lightning Rod Weaver to be a monster in solo queue.

This is only weaver though. Every weapon that's not sword needs a lot to a tremendous amount of help to be good and because of that also tempest and core ele since they cannot take Sword.

No. Spellbreaker does have a learning curve too. A weaver should never kill one 1on1 at equal skill level, while the warrior can save lots of CDs. And yes, I played against Vaans and others.

To be honest, what I could see from Phantarams streams, NA is full of trolling players with weird builds and poor map awareness. Not denying his skill - definitely not! He crushes a lot of his opponents really impressively -, but EU really looks different.

The fun part about this is that ,,If" dev's payed any attention ele would have the best build diversity in the game ( at least in ranked):

-Got Necro but no support for him in team? Go tempest healbot! Instead tempest needs firebrand to stay alive...what a meme....-Team with zero thief/Mesmer? Go fresh core/weaver for burst! Oh wait since ,,FA patch" everything FA related extincted.-Nobody to deal with side nodes? Go sw/something weaver...and here actually can't complain.

Instead we have million of nerfs (more or less) Raid related that choke our build diversity or directly nerf everything useful or with theorycraft potential in pvp. Even fans of meme pvp ele staff builds where punched. Like for what reason we needed Elements of rage rework in pvp? Why only pvp balance team only does skill splits?

I really really would like to see finally dev playing ele in pvp...actually playing...and see him facing same questions as we do...what should we do with class?