Because death is our theme

As a 5 year necromancer main, I have suffered enough. Constant looks and wispers behind my back, clear hatered is spilling out from your allies and foes.

• No place in raids.
• Constant puching bag in pvp. Focus necro is meta, always was, and will stay for good. No point of fighting that as it was a thing for whole sPvP history
• Never loved by developers, sometimes given immense power for one or two months to enjoy, just to get overnerfd to the ground (nerfing our "sustain" in the process).
• Laughed at by thieves, warriors, guardians
• No mobility, no escapes, no blocks evades, no invulnerability, only health sponge mechanic which is getting less and less relevant as power creep grows
• Did I mention stability? No? Good, devs are not mentioning it either. Core necro has one stack as grand master talent, reaper one skill which was nerfed to the ground. Scourge one stack on 35 sec cd... While other classes are shitting stab every few seconds.

I guess I have to end my journey as necromancer in this game or maybe my journey in this game at all. I waited long enough to get my class fixed, cannot wait any longer.

Because death is our theme, our class is dead

PS. No, you cannot have my gold

Actually, ironically, life is the theme of the Necromancer. :)

bit over-dramatic? the "focus necro"-meta exists because necro is dangerous and can easily win a team fight if left alone. A trick i've seen is to wait a couple of seconds behind your team since ppl don't tend to notice you as fast.

i'll be quiet about wvw

@Oglaf.1074 said:Actually, ironically, life is the theme of the Necromancer. :)

I totally agree. The necromancer is more about life than it is about death.

@"derd.6413" said:bit over-dramatic? the "focus necro"-meta exists because necro is dangerous and can easily win a team fight if left alone. A trick i've seen is to wait a couple of seconds behind your team since ppl don't tend to notice you as fast.

i'll be quiet about wvw

Right? If left unchecked, a necro can swing a whole game. Necros aren't focused just because they're free kills. They're focused because if they aren't kept in the dirt they become a huge problem.

Honestly, without the proliferation of mechanics that allow people to deal damage while receiving no damage and zero-tell massive burst due to expansion powercreep, necro would probably be top dog by a pretty substantial margin in the PvP formats.

WvW blobbing it's always been a staple, too. Part of the ZvZ/GvG meta since launch and remains dominant even in small-scale across all three of its specs.

It's poor in PvE because PvE is literally just a DPS race. The encounters don't take advantage of necromancers' strengths, and stuff has been powercreeped to a point where nobody ever needs to soak a hit because of all the pre-mitigation (blocks/invulns, barrier, etc.) and free comeback mechanics/heals.

@"derd.6413" said:bit over-dramatic? the "focus necro"-meta exists because necro is dangerous and can easily win a team fight if left alone. A trick i've seen is to wait a couple of seconds behind your team since ppl don't tend to notice you as fast.

Incorrect. The primary target in a fight is always whichever opponent is the easiest to kill, as scoring a kill results in a +1 advantage, and whichever team gets the +1 advantage first will almost certain win the fight altogether.

Also waiting a couple seconds behind your team is a terrible idea because it means you are separated from your support. The enemy team will just bypass the rest of your team and remove you before you are able to regroup with your team.

@Virelion.4128 said:

• Constant puching bag in pvp. Focus necro is meta, always was, and will stay for good. No point of fighting that as it was a thing for whole sPvP history

You have the nerve to mention necro's PvP? Really ? Yeah, farewell dude.

@Eme.2018 said:

@Virelion.4128 said:

• Constant puching bag in pvp. Focus necro is meta, always was, and will stay for good. No point of fighting that as it was a thing for whole sPvP historyYou have the nerve to mention necro's PvP? Really ? Yeah, farewell dude.I am not saying necro is weak. It is just unplayable in higher ranks. You get ran over instantly, and you have no reliable tools to escape/defend yourself. Of course, sometimes you get good support, or just get lucky with rally, but you have no tools to carry at all. Cannot push far like war/druid and live in any 2v1 or even escape. Every plat (probably even gold) necro know what I am talking about.

Necro does suffer from you have 2 health bars but no way to keep them full.

I like when people insist that the developers don't like a profession and thus everything bad is because the developers are torturing their customers.

@"Dace.8173" said:I like when people insist that the developers don't like a profession and thus everything bad is because the developers are torturing their customers.

They rather don't know what to do with it. The last "rework" of reaper was just nerfs to sustain and making auto atracks of instantly decaying shroud better. While classes like mesmer, guardian getting meaningful reworks. Necro still laugh at their entire specs like death magic.

@Virelion.4128 said:

@"Dace.8173" said:I like when people insist that the developers don't like a profession and thus everything bad is because the developers are torturing their customers.

I am pretty sure they know what they are doing with it. Getting it to where they want it to go is a different matter but I've seen no evidence that they don't know what to do with it. However, one faction is bound to be the bottom of the dog pile. No matter how hard a gaming company works there is always going to be a bottom. This problem has plagued gaming in general for decades.

@"Dace.8173" said:I am pretty sure they know what they are doing with it. Getting it to where they want it to go is a different matter but I've seen no evidence that they don't know what to do with it. However, one faction is bound to be the bottom of the dog pile. No matter how hard a gaming company works there is always going to be a bottom. This problem has plagued gaming in general for decades.Meta should shift and it is shifting in this game too. Being once on the top once on the bottom of pile is nothiNg unusual.

"Focus necro" meta never changed.

Worst class in raids never changed as well. Necro was used for one moment as gimmick with condi bounce. And even this tool got removed.

Worst class in WvW roaming never changed

Blob WvW meta is full of necros and even more full of guardians is here to stay. This is actual only place where necro was constantly viable and wanted.

Guardian for example is relevant in all game modes. In spvp there are like 3 meta guardian builds. Always required in WvW, never forces out of raids.

I do not have evidence for lack of understanding of game by devs. It is just my opinion in this particular matter.

I'm pretty sure anet want the necromancer to be the best counter to boons. Which he is since HoT. The role is really strong on the paper and shine especially brightly in WvW. The only issue is that this is a niche role which lack flexibility and force the balance team to keep the necromancer performance in check so that he doesn't overperform in optimal situations.

As a simple example, imagine an environment where foes have perma vigor and regeneration, the boons reapplying at an insane rate. In this kind of environment, the necromancer's condi dps would shot throught the roof.

The same goes for power damages. Imagine a foe that cannot be critical hit. Against such a foe, life leeching ability shine brighter than any other abilities, increasing tremendously the damage done while still healing.

The necromancer isn't weak, he is even potentially broken op dependant of the situation, it's just that the current game don't give him that much chance to display it's full potential outside of WvW.

Seriously, Anet could just make sure that bosses have vigor on for the whole boss fight. You could even craft a silly excuse saying that it's necessary for the breakbar to charge. This wouldn't have much consequences to groups that don't own necromancers yet, this would allow necromancers to benefit from their supposed strength in a gamemode where they tend to be lacking.

@Virelion.4128 said:

@"Dace.8173" said:I am pretty sure they know what they are doing with it. Getting it to where they want it to go is a different matter but I've seen no evidence that they don't know what to do with it. However, one faction is bound to be the bottom of the dog pile. No matter how hard a gaming company works there is always going to be a bottom. This problem has plagued gaming in general for decades.Meta should shift and it is shifting in this game too. Being once on the top once on the bottom of pile is nothiNg unusual.

Ascribing a motive that does not exist doesn't really bolster your case. At any rate, Necromancer is good in PvP and WvW. That's two out of the three game modes and yet somehow that translates into the developers hating the profession. I will never get how being subpar in only one area of the game translates into the worst profession in the game and the developers must hate the profession (despite zero evidence or logic).

I do wonder if all the players who insist Necromancer is fine in PvE have played the class since launch anywhere other than Open World zerg fest where I could play Nomads Thief if I wanted.

Necromancer is the profession with the most troubled past when we look at instanced PvE content. We've only ever been widely accepted when the player base has developed builds built around 'unintended gameplay', 'gimmicks' or even bugs. We've never been 'Meta' intentionally and if everything went as ANet planned we never would have.

Core Tyria Dungeon Days - No Necro, Kicked if you played Necro and overall was just awful.. Dagger was our only melee weapon and only hit a single target..

Heart of Thorns - Healers became a common thing with Druid.. Players discovered combination of strong heals + Jagged Horrors and so 'gimmick' #1 was born and then.. Nerfed. Back in to obscurity Necro went.

Path of Fire - Scourge releases brokenly overpowered due to the shades being bugged, its fixed and we're now at a reasonable level. Subsequent patches release with more nerfs that eventually put us below the 30k mark of the other professions but.. With the release of a certain DnT Vale Guardian video 'Epi Bouncing' becomes a widely known tactic and stacked Necromancer DPS now shoots above 40k on encounters with adds. This is clearly an unintended use of Epidemic and eventually nerfed. Here we are today.. Back in to obscurity.

After nearly six years of playing Necromancer in PvE, you see a pattern. How someone can say 'this is fine' is beyond me. This class is fundamentally flawed in PvE, organized instance PvE that is. I fully understand the way the Meta works, that someone will always be at the top and another the bottom but to be at the bottom for almost six years and only have a couple shinning moments which were never intentional is disheartening.

@Crinn.7864 said:

@"derd.6413" said:bit over-dramatic? the "focus necro"-meta exists because necro is dangerous and can easily win a team fight if left alone. A trick i've seen is to wait a couple of seconds behind your team since ppl don't tend to notice you as fast.

Ranged attacks can be LoS'd. 2+ players jumping on you in melee give your team a nice opportunity for cleaving them all at once while you sustain and counterpressure a few seconds in shroud.

If your team leaves you alone while you are focused, you're f*cked. That's true. But that's not your fault.

Necros don't work well with the meta thief builds as these can't counterpressure enough. But pair up with a revenant, guardian or holosmith (all burst with decent AOE) and you will do great.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:Actually, ironically, life is the theme of the Necromancer. :)

NONecromancer absorb life from his opponents until they dieSo death is our theme

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:Actually, ironically, life is the theme of the Necromancer. :)

What about: our theme is life and death?

@Autumn.8043 said:I do wonder if all the players who insist Necromancer is fine in PvE have played the class since launch anywhere other than Open World zerg fest where I could play Nomads Thief if I wanted.

Necromancer is the profession with the most troubled past when we look at instanced PvE content. We've only ever been widely accepted when the player base has developed builds built around 'unintended gameplay', 'gimmicks' or even bugs. We've never been 'Meta' intentionally and if everything went as ANet planned we never would have.

Core Tyria Dungeon Days - No Necro, Kicked if you played Necro and overall was just awful.. Dagger was our only melee weapon and only hit a single target..

Heart of Thorns - Healers became a common thing with Druid.. Players discovered combination of strong heals + Jagged Horrors and so 'gimmick' #1 was born and then.. Nerfed. Back in to obscurity Necro went.

Path of Fire - Scourge releases brokenly overpowered due to the shades being bugged, its fixed and we're now at a reasonable level. Subsequent patches release with more nerfs that eventually put us below the 30k mark of the other professions but.. With the release of a certain DnT Vale Guardian video 'Epi Bouncing' becomes a widely known tactic and stacked Necromancer DPS now shoots above 40k on encounters with adds. This is clearly an unintended use of Epidemic and eventually nerfed. Here we are today.. Back in to obscurity.

After nearly six years of playing Necromancer in PvE, you see a pattern. How someone can say 'this is fine' is beyond me. This class is fundamentally flawed in PvE, organized instance PvE that is. I fully understand the way the Meta works, that someone will always be at the top and another the bottom but to be at the bottom for almost six years and only have a couple shinning moments which were never intentional is disheartening.

Exactly this.Finally someone that has a realistic view and seems to love necro theme as much as i do.

Noone can deny these facts.

Core necro in dire straights since 2012...

Life Blast damage sucks hard.One famine stack of stab outside lich form...at expanse of death perception...Dhuumfire useless for core nec, cause life blast takes forever to fire...Condi weapons are a joke (no damage staff and super slow scepter)...Deathshroud is the most garbage set of skills i've seen on a professionDeathshroud (again..) has no synergy with anything.Compared to both elite specs - sustain is a joke, damage is a joke, party utility is a joke.. lotsa laughs to be sure...Poor builds - no matter what you build you will be severely crippled in one crucial area, something elite specs can mitigate much better.Legendary "necro mobility". Deathshroud #2 is stuff of legends, whispered only by bravest of necromancers when no one is looking...Only core profession that does not have any build that's close to 30k dps mark. Hell if I know if it can even get near 20k....

I can only speak for raids but I only very rarely get problems as scourge and reaper to join pugs. I am not saying that we dont need a slight number boost but the raid situation is not as bad as most of us pretend it is.

@Autumn.8043 said:I do wonder if all the players who insist Necromancer is fine in PvE have played the class since launch anywhere other than Open World zerg fest where I could play Nomads Thief if I wanted.

Necromancer is the profession with the most troubled past when we look at instanced PvE content. We've only ever been widely accepted when the player base has developed builds built around 'unintended gameplay', 'gimmicks' or even bugs. We've never been 'Meta' intentionally and if everything went as ANet planned we never would have.

Core Tyria Dungeon Days - No Necro, Kicked if you played Necro and overall was just awful.. Dagger was our only melee weapon and only hit a single target..

Heart of Thorns - Healers became a common thing with Druid.. Players discovered combination of strong heals + Jagged Horrors and so 'gimmick' #1 was born and then.. Nerfed. Back in to obscurity Necro went.

Path of Fire - Scourge releases brokenly overpowered due to the shades being bugged, its fixed and we're now at a reasonable level. Subsequent patches release with more nerfs that eventually put us below the 30k mark of the other professions but.. With the release of a certain DnT Vale Guardian video 'Epi Bouncing' becomes a widely known tactic and stacked Necromancer DPS now shoots above 40k on encounters with adds. This is clearly an unintended use of Epidemic and eventually nerfed. Here we are today.. Back in to obscurity.

After nearly six years of playing Necromancer in PvE, you see a pattern. How someone can say 'this is fine' is beyond me. This class is fundamentally flawed in PvE, organized instance PvE that is. I fully understand the way the Meta works, that someone will always be at the top and another the bottom but to be at the bottom for almost six years and only have a couple shinning moments which were never intentional is disheartening.

I have in fact played my Necromancer in other PvE environments. I just don't PUG. I hate people. I hate strangers even more than I hate people. Thus I do things like dungeons and raids with my guild.

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:Actually, ironically, life is the theme of the Necromancer. :)

Incorrect. The GW Necromancers control the lifeforce of other beings. Especially when it comes to their minions, where seemingly random clumps of meat and bone are infused with lifeforce to become alive in a Dr. Frankenstein-esque manner.

Manipulation of life - not death - is the Necromancer's forte.

@Dadnir.5038 said:I'm pretty sure anet want the necromancer to be the best counter to boons. Which he is since HoT. The role is really strong on the paper and shine especially brightly in WvW. The only issue is that this is a niche role which lack flexibility and force the balance team to keep the necromancer performance in check so that he doesn't overperform in optimal situations.

As a simple example, imagine an environment where foes have perma vigor and regeneration, the boons reapplying at an insane rate. In this kind of environment, the necromancer's condi dps would shot throught the roof.

The same goes for power damages. Imagine a foe that cannot be critical hit. Against such a foe, life leeching ability shine brighter than any other abilities, increasing tremendously the damage done while still healing.

The necromancer isn't weak, he is even potentially broken op dependant of the situation, it's just that the current game don't give him that much chance to display it's full potential outside of WvW.

Seriously, Anet could just make sure that bosses have vigor on for the whole boss fight. You could even craft a silly excuse saying that it's necessary for the breakbar to charge. This wouldn't have much consequences to groups that don't own necromancers yet, this would allow necromancers to benefit from their supposed strength in a gamemode where they tend to be lacking.

Finally someone who understands this.

Necros are weak in PvE because of the encounter designs being nothing like the PvP environments.

The class is a monster in the PvP modes and always has been when played well. Make PvE like PvP is and all of a sudden the class goes from meh/bad to top-tier/busted.