Change on Signs and rework on staff

Would you want a rework on staff and signs work similar like guardian zeals, with many different traits and interactions and available on all sets?

Disclaimer: Due to a language barrier thing: Signs=Marks. This topic is mainly about Staff and the MARK skills and if we shouöd distribute them more on other weapons similar to guard seals.

So one proposal would be for example to put the signs onto the offhands.So reapers mark is on WH, Mark of Blood on dagger and putrid mark on focus.Chillblain stays on Staff and Gretsword will get its blinding field classified as a mark and is ground targetable. Torch gets one of its 2 skills classified as one and staff gets new skills altogether except the AA and chillblain.

Only in signets. Maybe shouts need some love too. Staff IS FINE, don't touch it. Ok, not that relevant to PvE but it works very well on PvP being almost a must on every scourge or core necro build, it gives a lot of utility with an AoE fear, AoE condi transfer, 1200 range and some soft CC, poison and little damage spammed around. When traited(almost 100% of the times), it becomes unblockable and generates LF. It's FINE

why are ppl so insistent to make everything the same thing

while classifying some skills as marks and giving it a trait like the guardin symbol trait sounds nice. but we have well reduction already and e.g. GS4 could be a well aswell and scepter 2 and dagger 5 coul be easily changed in that direction too.

staff already is decent for enough of gamestyles like wvw/spvp (scoruge) and tagging many mobs in big event pve. staff 2 is the only skill i see really lacking some love. otherwise its good enough. not everything has to be top dps in pve.

@derd.6413 said:why are ppl so insistent to make everything the same thing

I am not ibsistent to make them exactly like guard skills. I want to keep them as they are but nore distributed because only staff benefits from sign trait and no other weapon does. Functionality of staff could ve kept similar with an AoE heavy condi weapon on range just signs are moved to give other weapons more trait interactions and diversity.

@Aetatis.5418 said:while classifying some skills as marks and giving it a trait like the guardin symbol trait sounds nice. but we have well reduction already and e.g. GS4 could be a well aswell and scepter 2 and dagger 5 coul be easily changed in that direction too.

staff already is decent for enough of gamestyles like wvw/spvp (scoruge) and tagging many mobs in big event pve. staff 2 is the only skill i see really lacking some love. otherwise its good enough. not everything has to be top dps in pve.

I am more on the diversity and utility site than just DPS. Not striping staff from these aspects if course but giving them to other weapons too.The only compensation would be that less weaponskills on staff are signs.

I would love for the staff to be revisited.It is probably the most bland weapon in the game...

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@"derd.6413" said:why are ppl so insistent to make everything the same thing

there's only one trait that "buffs" marks (and a minor that drops one but doesn't buff it)most classes have a trait that buffs a specific weapon for most of their weapons (spitefull talisman, quickening thirst, lingering curse), an exception to this is necro staffso perhaps soul marks is the necro staff trait.

also if you want more trait diversity then perhaps you shouldn't buff soul reaping

The main change I would like to see on staff is the staff auto hitting more reliably. Make it a non-projectile and let it work similarly to a druid staff auto.

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@"Aetatis.5418" said:while classifying some skills as marks and giving it a trait like the guardin symbol trait sounds nice. but we have well reduction already and e.g. GS4 could be a well aswell and scepter 2 and dagger 5 coul be easily changed in that direction too.

staff already is decent for enough of gamestyles like wvw/spvp (scoruge) and tagging many mobs in big event pve. staff 2 is the only skill i see really lacking some love. otherwise its good enough. not everything has to be top dps in pve.

fair enough. i assumed you are on the "dps" side of reworks as many other threads suggested throughout the years.however, i still dont feel like a "major" rework is needed.it is not the most exciting weapon, sure - i'd appreciate a few minor QoL changes (more skills classified as signs or wells is not the worst approach), but i am not demanding them. in case of the staff it really is just the 2skill that i feel is extremely useless besides tagging stuff without doing anything else (dmg is probably the worst, compared to other weapon 2 skills (ele lava font, guards gs 2... literally any weapon i can think of). so is the utility - the few seconds of regen really dont do much. not even in combination)

@derd.6413 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@derd.6413 said:why are ppl so insistent to make everything the same thing

Well they could add traits in different traitlines that affect signs. Bloodmagic for example. The overall suggested sign rework would in end ofc lead to trait changes.

@Aetatis.5418 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@Aetatis.5418 said:while classifying some skills as marks and giving it a trait like the guardin symbol trait sounds nice. but we have well reduction already and e.g. GS4 could be a well aswell and scepter 2 and dagger 5 coul be easily changed in that direction too.

staff already is decent for enough of gamestyles like wvw/spvp (scoruge) and tagging many mobs in big event pve. staff 2 is the only skill i see really lacking some love. otherwise its good enough. not everything has to be top dps in pve.

Well the second skill could be improved by a long shot thats right. As i stated above it would fit perfectly on dagger OH, increasing the blood stacks and giving it a burst life siphon would improve its dmg and utility.On staff they could just give it a direct short CD ground target that just applies bleeds and generates life force.The fear sign could be replaced with a PbAoE CC and the conversion sign into a teleport for more mobility.

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@derd.6413 said:why are ppl so insistent to make everything the same thing

necro has enough "mechanics" for traits to be built around. necro can definitely use improvements to it's traits but introducing a "new" mechanic is unnecessary

@derd.6413 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@derd.6413 said:why are ppl so insistent to make everything the same thing

But there are also plenty of traits that are either underwhelming or can be improved.Its generally not a new mechanic just more widespread and as widespread could be the accesabbility to improve them.Example for trait improvement:Fear of death: Cast Lesser Reapers Mark when stroke behold the health threshold.This would give this trait better functionality and an interaction with signs. Ofc othwr different ones could be implemented, like vuln on signs or give stab on allied etc.

More reliable AA would be nice. #2 and 3 feel a tad on the weak side, and #2 could be a bit more reliable of a Regen provider (or heck, something a bit more unique - a designated heal and dmg skill that is more interesting than just vomiting out regen). It's vexing that #2 requires the caster to be in melee range of wherever the mark is proccing in order to get the regen - requiring that the necro be THAT close to benefit from their own skill, on a weapon that has the highest range for that class, seems a bit ridonkulous.

Idk, make #2 grant regen to caster (no matter their location) and to allies around the mark, then pulse out (200-300 x5 ) barrier around the mark. #3 change it to pulse chill and poison instead of on-hit, so there's the potential for more damage if your opponent stays in it but less if they move out, anyone standing in it once the pulsing is done is rooted and grants stab to group members. Necro's access to boons in general is absolute garbage. Slightly more reliable access to regen won't break the game.

Not sure what to do about #4 and 5. They're....okay, but definitely haven't kept up with the gains other classes/skills/weapons have seen. A plain ol aoe fear on a relatively massive CD, especially only a 1 sec fear, is kind of weak. I'd rather bake the trait that makes fear deal dmg into necro's fear skills, then turn that trait into something additional that benefits staff.

For a supposed support/utility weapon, staff doesn't actually offer much support or utility. I really only use it for the relatively reliable LF gain nowadays. Opponents don't really fear staff anymore. I don't think there's a single skill on there that has ever, when I'm fighting a necro, made me focus and try to avoid that mark in particular (except staff 4 if I just Condi bombed them xD But that's rather niche).

Then I suppose boost the power dmg scaling on all of it so that it's still an awful power dmg weapon for condi builds but power Necros can get something out of it.

Obviously doing every single one of these things would probably be a tad much, but I think necro has been nerfed enough lately that we can afford to request a spa day and some love-lavishing for staff.

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@derd.6413 said:why are ppl so insistent to make everything the same thing

did you read what i wrote?i said necro traits can definitely be improved but you don't need to make marks more wide spread to do it

@derd.6413 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@derd.6413 said:why are ppl so insistent to make everything the same thing

Ofc you dont need to but they could, so....... why not?Sure necros have certain class mechanics but expanding on that isnt something bad IMO. It would give it more depth and build diversity i think and i do nit think it would impact necros in a negative way. Personally i think the opposite would happen because necros definetly need better trait interaction.

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@"derd.6413" said:why are ppl so insistent to make everything the same thing

As others have said, the Marks trait is the Staff trait. I suspect if they expanded marks to every weapon the Soul Marks trait would be changed to "While equipped with a staff, Marks generate Life Force and are unblockable." That said, I'm not particularly fond of the weapon traits as a whole. I think sometimes they pigeonhole you into using a specific weapon (or not using a weapon if you can't take the necessary line with the trait) so I wouldn't be opposed to seeing these traits (as a whole for all classes) somehow reworked to benefit more weapons or more aspects of each class.

@Xuazinegueri.3592 said:Only in signets. Maybe shouts need some love too. Staff IS FINE, don't touch it. Ok, not that relevant to PvE but it works very well on PvP being almost a must on every scourge or core necro build, it gives a lot of utility with an AoE fear, AoE condi transfer, 1200 range and some soft CC, poison and little damage spammed around. When traited(almost 100% of the times), it becomes unblockable and generates LF. It's FINE

isn't it only a must as it's the only 1200 ranged weapon necro has? as well as being AoE

@Kuulpb.5412 said:

@Xuazinegueri.3592 said:Only in signets. Maybe shouts need some love too. Staff IS FINE, don't touch it. Ok, not that relevant to PvE but it works very well on PvP being almost a must on every scourge or core necro build, it gives a lot of utility with an AoE fear, AoE condi transfer, 1200 range and some soft CC, poison and little damage spammed around. When traited(almost 100% of the times), it becomes unblockable and generates LF. It's FINE

The staff range isn't very important, the staff usefullness lie in it's area denial ability. I don't see the need of a change to a weapon which is fine as is and which is still seen as one of the best weapon for both PvP, WvW and open world farm feist.

I won't say that I wouldn't welcome an e-spec with a more offensive range weapon but that's another story.

I would like a rework of specific things, because not everything on signets and staff is bad. So what I would like to change is:

Staff auto : rework it by increasing the projectile speed and tracking or create an auto attack chain, because right now it's a lame autoattack.

Staff Mark of Blood : increase the bleeding stack to 3-4 and increase the regeneration heal.

Blood Magic- Mark of Evasion : remove the mark on dodge, it's frankly useless and puts u in combat when you dont want it. Create instead a new trait called Healing Marks to give regeneration to all marks, or something along this line.

Reaper Mark : 32s cd for a simple fear not unblockable if not traited is too much. Increase the dmg component to be on pair if not more like Putrid Mark.

Maybe with a rework of death magic the soul comprehension minor trait could be replaced with something more synergetic of staff and signets.

Signet of Vampirism : remove the struck by foe component on passive, because it makes this healing skill useless against non melee enemies.

Signet of Undead : increase the life force regeneration by a lot, like 5% per sec out of shourd and rework it to keep a decent regen in shroud. maybe couple in on lower regen but with health regeneration? Reduce cast time to 2s.

I'll more later if something come up my mind

@"NecroSummonsMors.7816"Sorry for your misunderstanding but with "signs" i ment "marks". It was a language barrier thing.Signets are another topic and has nothing to do with a staff rework.

@"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:I would like a rework of specific things, because not everything on signets and staff is bad. So what I would like to change is:

Staff auto : rework it by increasing the projectile speed and tracking or create an auto attack chain, because right now it's a lame autoattack.

Staff Mark of Blood : increase the bleeding stack to 3-4 and increase the regeneration heal.

Blood Magic- Mark of Evasion : remove the mark on dodge, it's frankly useless and puts u in combat when you dont want it. Create instead a new trait called Healing Marks to give regeneration to all marks, or something along this line.

Reaper Mark : 32s cd for a simple fear not unblockable if not traited is too much. Increase the dmg component to be on pair if not more like Putrid Mark.

Maybe with a rework of death magic the soul comprehension minor trait could be replaced with something more synergetic of staff and signets.

Signet of Vampirism : remove the struck by foe component on passive, because it makes this healing skill useless against non melee enemies.

Signet of Undead : increase the life force regeneration by a lot, like 5% per sec out of shourd and rework it to keep a decent regen in shroud. maybe couple in on lower regen but with health regeneration? Reduce cast time to 2s.

I'll more later if something come up my mind

I would say make staff auto a 100% projectile, Mark of evasion ONLY triggers in combat anyway, Signet of vampirism's heal effect is "when you are hit" not "when you are melee'd", Signet of Undeath having 5% out of shroud means that reaper shroud, which drains 5% would be up MUCH faster than it currently is, and it's already insanely fast because GS passive is regen life force.

@Kuulpb.5412 said:

@"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:I would like a rework of specific things, because not everything on signets and staff is bad. So what I would like to change is:

Staff auto

: rework it by increasing the projectile speed and tracking or create an auto attack chain, because right now it's a lame autoattack.

Staff Mark of Blood

: increase the bleeding stack to 3-4 and increase the regeneration heal.

Blood Magic- Mark of Evasion

: remove the mark on dodge, it's frankly useless and puts u in combat when you dont want it. Create instead a new trait called Healing Marks to give regeneration to all marks, or something along this line.

Reaper Mark

: 32s cd for a simple fear not unblockable if not traited is too much. Increase the dmg component to be on pair if not more like Putrid Mark.

Maybe with a rework of death magic the soul comprehension minor trait could be replaced with something more synergetic of staff and signets.

Signet of Vampirism

: remove the struck by foe component on passive, because it makes this healing skill useless against non melee enemies.

Signet of Undead

: increase the life force regeneration by a lot, like 5% per sec out of shourd and rework it to keep a decent regen in shroud. maybe couple in on lower regen but with health regeneration? Reduce cast time to 2s.

I'll more later if something come up my mind

Not only that but traiting Signets of Suffering would make it so that together with Signet of Undeath, Reaper Shroud wouldn't degenerate at all and would make Death Shroud actually regenerate instead of degenerate.

Nevermind, didn't read all before commenting.